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Messages - Nagaraj

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General Discussion / Re: Teachings of Sri Ramakrishna
« on: February 18, 2015, 11:02:08 AM »
Difficulty of preaching

"It is extremely difficult to teach others. A man can teach only if God reveals Himself to him and gives the command. Narada, Sukadeva, and sages like them had such a command from God, and Sankara had it too. Unless you have a command from God, who will listen to your words?"

"God does reveal Himself to man and speak. Only then may one receive His command. How forceful are the words of such a teacher! They can move mountains. But mere lectures? People will listen to them for a few days and then forget them. They will never act upon mere words.

"To teach others, one must have a badge of authority; otherwise teaching becomes a mockery. A man who is himself ignorant starts out to teach others-like the blind leading the blind! Instead of doing good, such teaching does harm. After the realization of God one obtains an inner vision. Only then can one diagnose a person's spiritual malady and give instruction.

"Without the commission from God, a man becomes vain. He says to himself, 'I am teaching people.' This vanity comes from ignorance, for only an ignorant person feels that he is the doer. A man verily becomes liberated in life if he feels: 'God is the Doer. He alone is doing everything. I am doing nothing.' Man's sufferings and worries spring only from his persistent thought that he is the doer.


General Discussion / Re: Teachings of Sri Ramakrishna
« on: February 18, 2015, 11:00:02 AM »
Master's humility

"Do you know my attitude? As for myself, I eat, drink, and live happily.
The rest the Divine Mother knows. Indeed, there are three words that
prick my flesh: 'guru', 'master', and 'father'.

"There is only one Guru, and that is Satchidananda. He alone is the Teacher.
My attitude toward God is that of a child toward its mother. One can get
human gurus by the million. All want to be teachers. But who cares to be a disciple?


General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: February 18, 2015, 10:51:17 AM »
கற்றது கைமண் அளவு, கல்லாதது உலகளவு

What is learnt is a handful of sand,
while what is unknown is the size of the world.


General topics / Re: Sivaratri - 17.02. 2015.
« on: February 17, 2015, 09:07:13 PM »
May we submit ourselves to the great God mahadeva with the following prayer on this auspicious night:

Siva Aparadha Ksamapana Stotra, Adi Shankara.

Even before I saw the light of this world, my sins from previous births,
Through which I passed because of desire for the fruit of my deeds,
Punished me as I lay in my mother?s womb.
There I was boiled in the midst of filthy things:
Who can describe the pain that afflicts the child in its mother?s womb?
Therefore, O Siva! O Mahadeva! O Sambhu! Forgive me, I pray, for my transgressions.
In childhood my suffering never came to an end;
My body was covered with filth and I craved for my mother?s breasts.
Over my body and limbs I had no control;
I was pursued by troublesome flies and mosquitoes;
Day and night I cried with the pain of many an ailment, forgetting Thee, O Sankara!
Therefore, O Siva! O Mahadeva! O Sambhu! Forgive me, I pray, for my transgressions.
In youth the venomous snakes of sound, sight, taste, touch, and smell,
Bit into my vitals and slew my discrimination;
I was engrossed in the pleasures of wealth, sons, and a youthful wife.
Alas! My heart, bereft of the thought of Siva,
Was filled with arrogance and pride,
Therefore, O Siva! O Mahadeva! O Sambhu! Forgive me, I pray, for my transgressions.
Now in old age my senses have lost the power of proper judging and acting;
My body, though still not wholly bereft of life,
Is weak and senile from many afflictions, from sins and illnesses and bereavements;
But even now my mind, instead of meditating on Siva,
Runs after vain desires and hollow delusions.
Therefore, O Siva! O Mahadeva! O Sambhu! Forgive me, I pray, for my transgressions.
The duties laid down in the smriti-perilous and abstruse-are now beyond me;
How can I speak of the Vedic injunctions for Brahmins, as means for attaining Brahman?
Never yet have I rightly grasped, through discrimination,
The meaning of hearing the scriptures from the guru and reasoning on his instruction;
How then can I speak of reflecting on Truth without interruption?
Therefore, O Siva! O Mahadeva! O Sambhu! Forgive me, I pray, for my transgressions.
Not even once have I finished my bath before sunrise and brought from the Ganges
Water to bathe Thy holy image;
Never, from the deep woods, have I brought the sacred vilwa leaves for Thy worship;
Nor have I gathered full-blown lotuses from the lakes,
Nor ever arranged the lights and the incense for worshipping Thee.
Therefore, O Siva! O Mahadeva! O Sambhu! Forgive me, I pray, for my transgressions.
I have not bathed Thine image with milk and honey, with butter and other oblations;
I have not decked it with fragrant sandal=paste;
I have not worshipped Thee with golden flowers, with incense, with camphor-flame and savoury offerings.
Therefore, O Siva! O Mahadeva! O Sambhu! Forgive me, I pray, for my transgressions.
I have not made rich gifts to the Brahmins, cherishing in my heart,
O Mahadeva, Thy sacred form;
I have not made in the sacred fire the million oblations of butter,
Repeating the holy mantra given to me by my guru;
Never have I done penance along the Ganges with japa and study of the Vedas.
Therefore, O Siva! O Mahadeva! O Sambhu! Forgive me, I pray, for my transgressions.
I have not sat in the lotus posture, nor have I ever controlled
The prana along the Sushumna, repeating the syllable Om;
Never have I suppressed the turbulent waves of my mind, nor merged the self-effulgent Om
In the ever-shining Witness-Consciousness, whose nature is that of the highest Brahman;
Nor have I, in Samadhi, meditated on Sankara, who dwells in every form as the Inner Guide.
Therefore, O Siva! O Mahadeva! O Sambhu! Forgive me, I pray, for my transgressions.
Never, O Siva! Have I seen Thee, the Pure, the Unattached, the Naked One,
Beyond the three gunas, free from delusion and darkness, absorbed in meditation,
And ever aware of the true nature of the world;
Nor, with a longing heart, have I meditated on Thine auspicious and sin-destroying form.
Therefore, O Siva! O Mahadeva! O Sambhu! Forgive me, I pray, for my transgressions.
O mind, to gain liberation, concentrate wholly on Siva,
The sole Reality underlying the worlds, the Giver of good;
Whose head is illumined by the crescent moon and in whose hair the Ganges is hidden;
Whose fire-darting eyes consumed the god of earthly love; whose throat and ears are decked with snakes;
Whose upper garment is a comely elephant-skin.
Of what avail are all the other rituals?
O mind, of what are wealth or horses, elephants or a kingdom?
Of what avail the body or a house?
Know all these to be but momentary and quickly shun them;
Worship Siva, as your guru instructs you, for the attaining of Self-Knowledge.
Day by day does man come nearer to death;
His youth wears away; the day that is gone never returns.
Almighty Time devours everything;
Fickle as lightning is the goddess of fortune.
O Siva! O Giver of shelter to those that come to Thee for refuge!
Protect me, who have taken refuge at Thy feet.
I salute the ever auspicious Siva, the Home of Peace,
Who sits in the lotus posture; who has five mouths and three eyes;
Who holds in both His hands weapons and gong and drum;
Who is bedecked with many an ornament;
Whose skin is clear as crystal; who is Parvati?s Lord.
I salute the self-effulgent Guru of the gods, the Lord of Uma;
I salute the Cause of the Universe
I salute the Lord of beasts, adorned with snakes;
I salute Siva, whose three eyes shine like the sun, the moon, and fire;
I salute the Beloved of Krishna; I salute Sankara, who bestows boons on His devotees and gives them shelter;
I salute the auspicious Siva.
O Siva! White is Thy body, covered with ashes; white shine Thy teeth when Thou smilest!
White is the skull Thou holdest in Thy hand; white is Thy club, which threatens the wicked!
White is the bull on which Thou ridest; white are the rings that hang from Thine ears!
White appear Thy matted locks, covered with the foam of the Ganges;
White shines the moon on Thy forehead!
May He who is all white, all pure, bestow on me the treasure of forgiveness for my transgressions!
O Siva, forgive all the sins that I have committed
With hands or feet, with words or body, with ears or eyes, with mind or heart;
Forgive my sins, those past and those that are yet to come!
Victory unto Siva, the Ocean of Compassion, the Great God, the Abode of Blessedness!

Dear Sri Nagaraj Ji,

You have bestowed upon me that label even before. I didn'd mind then, and I do not care now.

Thanks very much, dear friend, for conferring on me, if not any thing, at least a label, though my wish is to be bereft all labels whatsoever!  Sri Ravi bhai saheb has not done even that.

Sri Anil ji, just to clarify that i have only referred to your views in the post and not "YOU"

Best wishes


Though I am not against any path whatever, and all paths are most welcome, I do not accept at all the above quoted view. Neither Sri Bhagwan Himself nor His great devotees who moved closely with Him, have taught anywhere, I have not seen, that each path is as direct as any other.  All have proclaimed in unison that Self-enquiry is the direct path.  Therefore, the above quote may be your personal opinion, and everyone is free to have his own.  I wish to add that my understanding is also contrary to the above quote. 

Your views, dear sri Anil ji, are nothing short of fanatism! !

I have nothing more to communicate.

Best wishes dear friend,

Humour / Some times...
« on: February 17, 2015, 01:34:14 PM »
Just for fun...

Some times the discussions go thus -  :D

Dear Friends,

Here below, i present Sri Bhagavan's assertion of 3 paths - Jnana (Vichara), Bhakti and Yoga - Being end to themselves. Therefore, it is not so that one who is not fit for Enquiry has to do Bhakti, Yoga and then become fit to practice Self Enquiry inorder to realise the Self. Each Path, themselves is as Direct as any other. Just the temperament varies from aspirants owing to ones past Samskaras. I hope, the long drawn debate over the Direct path is now doused. Infact, Sri Anil ji, this was a subject matter of difference I have been having with you as well in the past (This post).

An examination of the ephemeral nature of external phenomena leads to vairagya [dispassion; non-attachment]. Hence enquiry (vichara) is the first and foremost step to be taken. When vichara continues automatically, it results in a contempt for wealth, fame, ease, pleasure, etc. The `I' thought becomes clearer for inspection. The source of `I' is the Heart - the final goal.
   If, however, the aspirant is not temperamentally suited to Vichara Marga (to the introspective analytical method), he must develop bhakti (devotion) to an ideal - may be God, Guru, humanity in general, ethical laws, or even the idea of beauty. When one of these takes possession of the individual, other attachments grow weaker, i.e., dispassion (vairagya) develops. Attachment for the ideal simultaneously grows and finally holds the field. Thus ekagrata (concentration) grows simultaneously and imperceptibly - with or without visions and direct aids.

   In the absence of enquiry and devotion, the natural sedative pranayama (breath regulation) may be tried. This is known as Yoga Marga. If life is imperilled the whole interest centres round the one point, the saving of life. If the breath is held the mind cannot afford to (and does not) jump at its pets - external objects. Thus there is rest for the mind so long as the breath is held. All attention being turned on breath or its regulation, other interests are lost. Again, passions are attended with irregular breathing, whereas calm and happiness are attended with slow and regular breathing. Paroxysm of joy is in fact as painful as one of pain, and both are accompanied by ruffled breaths. Real peace is happiness. Pleasures do not form happiness. The mind improves by practice and becomes finer just as the razor's edge is sharpened by stropping. The mind is then better able to tackle internal or external problems.

   If an aspirant be unsuited temperamentally for the first two methods and circumstantially (on account of age) for the third method, he must try the Karma Marga (doing good deeds, for example, social service). His nobler instincts become more evident and he derives impersonal pleasure. His smaller self is less assertive and has a chance of expanding its good side. The man becomes duly equipped for one of the three aforesaid paths. His intuition may also develop directly by this single method.

~ Sri Ramana Maharshi

?Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi?, Talk 27; 4th February, 1935

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Re: Light Post
« on: February 17, 2015, 12:50:46 PM »
Then an asariri voice was heard from the sky..

it is neither Direct connection nor Indirect connection, it is Divine Connection!


Sri Anil ji and Sri Ravi,

Anil ji, what I expressed were not my observations on you as you have taken it to be. They are rather a general discernment for anybody including myself.

Anyways, I have no issues with both your views. Both have its own place. I am neither oppose nor favour any one view. What I was conveying was quite diametrically opposite and sought to look beyond these differences! So long mind is, differences will be perceived and the way to move ahead is to look beyond the mind and defeat the cause of the mind.


Dear friends, Sri Ravi and Sri Anil ji,

here i remember a wonderful filmi dialogue -

Kabhi kabhi jeetne ke liye kuch haarna bhi parta hai ... aur haar kar jeetne waale ko baazigar kehte hai

Sometimes to win you must lose something ... and one who wins by losing is called a the great-winner

We all ought to lose our ego-mind. The mind's cause of upholding the dignity of something ought to lose, even if it is fighting for the right cause. And then such a lose is truly great win!

Loss of Ego is Realisation

Let all of us lose! Let there be real win!


Dear Sri Anil ji,

Below i quote couple of instances to prove your cause - that Bhagavan's method is DIRECT. These instances quoted below are much apt and clearly convey as to why Bhagavan's Self Enquiry is Direct path as you have been advocating thus far. But at the same time, I would express a couple of words to prove Sri Ravi's cause as well, by this, i do not convey what Sri Ravi has been trying to bring to light is wrong. What Sri Ravi has been conveying is equally valid and true.

The subtle aspect we have failed to reason and discern here is how our "abhimaan" is disturbed when somebody conveys something to the contrary to what we hold so strongly and religiously. One gets disturbed when one is told there is nothing direct/indirect about other methods and vice-versa. What benefit is this discussion for either of parties? A Sadhaka truly worries not about this.

If a path is said to be Direct, then it is just an ornament upon that path, what is it for anybody? How does it matter to anybody?

What is important is to take the "Essence" and not sit and fight for the cause of upholding the dignity of one's path.

Let it be Direct paths or Indirect paths. Aspirants of all paths attain to the truth. All rivers reach ocean. Aspirant of Direct paths and Aspirants of Indirect paths - all reach the same Truth.

Also, I would like to convey that Indirect Path does not mean inferior and Direct Path does not mean superior!

What matters is the aspirant's attitude and sincerity. The more one is easily disturbed, the more the aspirants journey becomes tough, be it even Direct Path. Even if one is said to be following Indirect path, if the aspirant is less disturbed, his journey becomes easier. The Tortoise and Hare story.

The aspirant ought not to engage in proving the superiority or inferiority of Gods, Gurus, paths and all living beings. All are equally potential.

The Ego ought to be killed. The Mind is the real culprit!

Below are the instances I would like to quote:

Once Paul Brunton asked:  "Bhagavan!  To attain the Self, should I leave all my possessions?" 
Bhagavan Ramana replied:  "Leave the possessor too."
If possesor is forsaken and the Self within is held on, there is no discussions on Jnanis, their grades etc., 

On another occasion, a Vaishnavite came to Sri Bhagavan and asked Him  as to how to control the mind.  Sri Bhagavan asked him:  In  Your Vaishnava  Siddhanta, what is mind?  The gentleman replied:  In our Sampradaya, [practice], Vishnu is antaryami, the indweller in the Heart and Mind is Thaayar, mother, Sri Lakshmi. Then Bhagavan asked him:  If mind is Sri Lakshmi, why should you control her?  Just pray to her to give way to attain the Antaryami. Why should trouble yourself to control Sri Lakshmi, who is the Mother?"

On another occasion, one gentleman came and asked Bhagavan Sri Ramana:  "What is the Sampradaya [daily rituals and practices] here.  Because I do not see anything.  The bell rings and breakfast is served.  The bell again rings, lunch is served.  Again the bell rings, supper is served."  Sri Bhagavan did not reply.  Then after sometime, He asked him, 'What is your sampradaya?"  The gentleman asnwered:  "In the mornings we do pujas and after dinner, we do so many fixed counts of Japa mantras.  And before going to bed, we submit everything to our Guru."  Sri Bhagavan replied:  "Oh, yet is good.  It is like keeping the principal and giving interest to the guru." The gentleman did not understand it. Just then Muruganar arrived.  Sri Bhagavan told Muruganar the entire conversation.  Muruganar replied:  "Oh, Bhagavan!  Their guru is much better.  He collects only the interest [the merits of japa mantras], but allows them to retain the Principal.  Here, our Guru swallows  the Principal itself.   Everyone laughed.  The gentleman became more confounded. 

We always keep the Principal [ego] and give only whatever we do as submission to our Guru.  But Sri Ramana Guru does not even allow that.  He takes way the ego, the Principal too.  Without ego, without principal, what we can do, what we can submit to our guru?  We submit 'ourselves' totally to Him to ensure liberation.

Muruganar has once said:  Where is the time for japa etc.,  There is no ego here.  Bhagavan is Uyir UNNi.  i.e. one who eats the individual soul, or the ego!


Sri Ravi, (Sri Anil ji and friends)

Nicely summarised. Thank you.

I would also like to express my thoughts. I would like to make it clear that I have not read Sadhu Om or David Godman (except just few excerpts here and there) or other names that we popularly come across. All i have read is only Bhagavan and my understanding of Bhagavan is coupled by Vedanta and the works of Shankara.

1. What is direct about self enquiry?

I am not really interested in the above question. Personally it does not matter to me whether it is direct or indirect. So I skip this question.

2. what is the nature of this enquiry? is it self attending to self or is it Self attending to Self?

According to me, it is self attending to self, mind attending to mind to result in its annihilation, to result in the discernment of its non-existence. And definitely not the Self attending to Self - This is absurd. In fact self enquiry takes place only in the Presence of That Real Self. The pseudo self enquires itself into its own annihilation. That is all to it.

Ignorance which makes one attribute to the pseudo i, the glory of Self, the Atman and makes you, on the contrary, attribute to the Real Self, the misery of the Individual, which is limitation. Remove this ignorance and you will see the True Light. What does Ramana say, he said to one who is suffering from such a misery to enquiry himself out to find not existing!

[ I really don't buy this modern quote "awareness watching awareness" - This is misleading. Does awareness need to watch itself? Does man need to see himself? Infact awareness is just another near-term for the Real Self and it is in the presence of Awareness - Real Self, the self enquiry takes place or for that matter any sadhana takes place ]

3. If self-enquiry bypasses the mind,is it possible to practice self enquiry or self attention  in all the three states of waking,dream and sleep?

self-enquiry and mind are synonimous. There is no by passing mind and all. The Real Self is already By-Passed the so called mind, so to say, the mind is unreal and non existent. it is mind burning itself out!

It is not Self attention it is just self attention just as expressed above. The Real Self remains mute untouched witness with all intelligence to all these, just as it remains so in all the 3 states. The Real Self remains without any desire to get liberated, it is already in liberation.

The moon derives its light from the Sun, considering the moon to be pseudo i and Sun to be Real I, does the Sun need to do Self Enquiry? No, it is suggested only to the so called moon the pseudo i that needs to enquire. And this too takes place only by the blessing of the Sun, by whose light the moon gets its light and it is found that there is neither Sun nor Moon but only the LIGHT alone, Chaitanya.


General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: February 16, 2015, 07:12:40 PM »
stray thoughts...

you get a response exactly from the same centre you express yourself from.

The expression of Body Mind is Karma and it results in Disturbance (Dualities)
The expression of Pure Mind is Wisdom and it results in Harmony (Recognition, Resonation)
The expression of Supreme Self is just Presence and it results in Peace (Abidance)

We may express the Supreme Truth from any of the centres as above.

We may express "Tatvamasi" from the Body Mind and it results in distrubance.
We may express "Tatvamasi" from the Pure and it results in Resonation, Recognition.
We may express "Tatvamasi" from the Supreme Self, by sheer Presence and it results in Peace.


Friends, just my two pieces of reflections...

संप्राप्ते सन्निहिते काले,
न हि न हि रक्षति डुकृञ् करणे॥१॥

saMprApte sannihite kAle,
na hi na hi rakSati DukRJ karaNe ||1||

When the end is near, "critical analyses" will not save you.

Move on friends, Be there any flaws in any, the God sees to it that
sincerity and devotion never goes in the air without his grace and touch.

He who has become deserving to beget the benevolent grace of the Guru, even if he may be wrong, still receives the benign grace and is guided appropriately. To each in His own way.

See not the difference, see the underlying principle. Beneath the seeming differences rests the same principle that cannot be denied even by contrasting views.

Differences don't matter here. Let there be difference, just let it be... let it be... in some corner! This is right and acceptable that is wrong and not acceptable all fall only in the realm of the mind alone. Drop that mind, snub it and kill it. Mind and its views are to be condemned, be it right or wrong! That mind is a filthy instrument that drags you down to its level. And that Mind is pure mind which is No-Mind, which gives itself up like the all consumed camphor, it surrenders in silence in the Presence of Divinity.

There are no differences here, in spite of seeming difference. Drop them, Cast off all these, Drop all dead and be stripped and Just be as you are. No need to know it, know need to analyse it, no need to communicate it.

See the contradiction, only contradiction is seen!
See the difference, only difference is seen!

See the 'Principle' only 'That' principle is seen!


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