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Messages - Nagaraj

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Dear Udai,

In the version from Tripura Rahasya, Ashtavakra learns about Truth from the Lady Hermit and then still being unclear, further gets clarified from Janaka Himself.

Instead of researching on his views on Ramana / whether he is arrogant or humble ...
if people had just learnt what he was teaching ... they would have realized the truth!!

people are more interested in things like what does he think about Ramana
why does he do this or that etc...
learn friends ... learn what he has to teach!
Then come back and tell me : This teaching is wrong for so and so reason!
Thats something !
to simply say "no he does not belong to our group" is silly!

The above quote of yours is your views on Swami Dayananda Saraswathi when some members felt some discomfiture over his comments on Ramana Maharshi. In the same spirit, why not, instead of researching if it occurred after Ashtavakra Gita or not, if people just focus on what is being presented by the great work of Tripura Rahasya, ... It would benefit well.

But, since, there is no details about whether this happens after Ashtavakra Gita, so I may not be factually correct, so as you say, i am ok with taking back my statement whether this occured after Ashtavakra Gita. but, in this version, the hermit begins to question Ashtavakra after his sermon on Truth.


       :) its unfair to relate this to the Ashtavakra Gita event in Mahabharata. There is no mention of Ashtavakra Gita in this tripura rahasyam and moreover we do not see that janaka learns anything from ashtavakra :). There was a debate and then this lady comes and tells something to ashtavakra.

Anyone who has read Ashtavakra Gita properly knows it to be clearly the ultimate Truth.

Infact Ashtavakra Gita was probably not immediately after the debate. Debate was with vandin and the wiki page says :

"Later Aṣṭāvakra grew into a spiritually advanced rishi and self-realised atman. He went again to Mithila and instructed King Janaka about the Self. These teachings form the content of the Aṣṭāvakra Gītā or Aṣṭāvakra Saṃhitā as it is sometimes called."

I seldom depend upon wiki, but its important to note that Ashtavakra Gita is a Realized persons teachigns ... not a "Scholar's ramblings". Scholars cannot explain truth. And saying "I realized" does not necessarily mean a second person. That argument is also invalid. Its born out of confusion of relative [vyavaharika] and paramarthika.

Sri Udai, why so protective of Sage Ashtavakra? :) We all respect him, not like because of this, somebody is going to see him as lesser? Ashtavakra can stand for himself.

Sri Udai,

I am not saying anything, it is all in Tripura Rahasya :)

what matters Udai? All that matters is truth, isn't it?

When we can use the aid of adhyAthma rAmAyaNa to vouchsafe the jnyAni status of Sri Rama, when Guru can say Prahllad had to meditate as Self in Yoga Vasishta to get enlightened, why not be open enough to see what this thread has to unfold? Truth only prevails!

D: There are various definitions of Bhakti.
G: There is only one: Self Abidance. No other definition.

D: What if a person does not know all these jnana terms and simply sits and prays.
G: If he abides as Self, knowingly then he is. Do you know the story of Prahallada from Yoga

D: whats that ? Prahallada story is from bhagavatam.
G: Well After the story of bhagavatam , YV says, Prahallada had to meditate on that Vishnu as his own
     Self and only then he got liberated. Thats how he found true bhakti!

D: This is surely misinterpretation.
G: Then its done by Yoga Vasishta and not by me.

How can you say its unfair, Lets see what it says! What is there to gain or lose? :)

Being approached by the ascetic, the son of Kaheola replied with confidence:

I know it. Listen to what I say. There is nothing in the world not known to me. I have studied all the sacred literature with great care. Therefore hear my answer.

What you ask is the primal and efficient cause of the universe, being itself without beginning, middle or end, and unaffected by time and space. It is pure, unbroken, single Consciousness. The whole world is manifested in it like a city in a mirror. Such is that transcendental state. On realising it, one becomes immortal; there is no place for doubts and uncertainties, as there is none at the sight of a reflection in a mirror; there is no more reason for ignorance as at the sight of innumerable reflected images; and there will be no more room for desire, because transcendence is then experienced.

It is also unknowable because there is no one to know it, besides itself.

Ascetic! I have now told you the truth as contained in the scriptures.

After Ashtavakra had finished, the hermit spoke again:

Young Sage! What you say, is rightly said and accepted by all. But I draw your attention to that part of your answer where you admitted its unknowability for want of a knower outside of consciousness; and also that its knowledge confers immortality and perfection. How are these two statements to be reconciled? Either admit that consciousness is unknowable, is not known to you, and thus conclude its nonexistence; or say that it is, and that you know it — and therefore it is not unknowable.

You evidently speak from second-hand knowledge, gathered from the scriptures. Clearly, you have not realised it and so your knowledge is not personal.

Think now — your words amount to this: You have a personal knowledge of the images but not of the mirror. How can that be? Tell me now if you are not ashamed of this prevarication before King Janaka and his assembly.

Being thus reprimanded by the ascetic, he could not speak for some time because he felt mortified and ashamed; so he remained with bent head thinking it over.


Varuna’s followers then took away the sunken pandits to his sacrifice where they were received with respect, which much pleased them.

There was one by name Kahoela, among those who were thus sunk. His son Ashtavakra, having heard of his father’s fate, hastened to Janaka’s court and challenged the debater skilled in fallacy. The masquerader was now defeated and straightaway condemned to the sea by the young avenger. Then Varuni threw off his mask in the court and restored back all the men formerly drowned in the sea. Kahoela’s son was now puffed with pride and behaved offensively before the assembled court. The pandits were made to feel mortified before the youth.

Just then, a female ascetic appeared in their midst, to whom the offended assembly looked for help. Encouraging them in their hopes, the charming maiden with matted locks and hermit’s clothes was highly honoured by the king and she spoke in sweet and yet firm tones:

Oh child! Son of Kahoela! You are indeed very accomplished, for these Brahmins have been rescued by you after you defeated Varuni in debate.

I want to ask of you a short question, to which please give a straight answer, explicit and unreserved.

What is that condition reaching which there will be all-round immortality; knowing which all doubts and uncertainties will disappear; and established in which all desires will vanish? If you have realised that unbounded state, please tell me directly.


Most of us are aware of the story of Ashtavakra Gita, where the Ashtavakra goes into debate with Varuna who upon defeating all Brahmanas including Kahoela, (Ashtavakra's father) had taken these Brahmanas along with him, and were sunk in water world.

Here I present a continuation of what happened after Ashtavakra Gita, the following posts, they are quite insightful:

A knowledge of the property of a thing without actual
experience of the thing itself is as useless as no knowledge.

True experience of the Self is the unawareness of even ‘I am’.
Can the world persist after such unawareness? Second-hand
knowledge is no better than the recollection of a dream.

Just as the accession of treasure in a dream is useless, so also
is second-hand knowledge.

General Discussion / 8 DhyAnam - Procedure
« on: December 05, 2012, 11:03:23 AM »
8. DhyAnam

॥ ध्यानम् ॥

Chant the following mentally, meditating the form of gAyathrI mAthA as described in the shlokA:

मुक्ताविद्रुमहेमनीलधवलच्छायैः मुखैः त्रीक्षणैः
युक्तामिन्दुनिबद्धरत्नमुकुटां तत्वार्थवर्णात्मिकाम् ।
गायत्री वरदाभयाङ्कुशकशाः शुभ्रं कपालं गदां
शङ्खं चक्रमथारविन्दुयुगलं हस्तैर्वहन्तीं भजे ॥

mukthAvidrumanIlaDhavalacCAyaih muKhaih thrIkShaNaih
yukthAmindu nibadhDharathnamukutAm thathvArthavarNAthmikAm .
gAyathrI vardABhayAm*kushakashAh shuBhram kapAlam gadhAm
shanKham cakramaThAravindhuyugalAm hasthairvahanthIm BhajE ..

* just be conscious that when you chant varadhABhayam, we chant aBhayam, but generally it is commonly observed that people chant as varada Bhayam, it becomes meaningless, aBhayam is fearlessness and whereas Bhayam is fear.

I meditate on gAyathrI who has five faces, one is red like coral, second is yellow like gold, third is blue like neelam, fourth white like milk, and the fifth is of ‘trinetra’ or three eyed. We meditate Her gem studded headgear with half- moon like jewel on Her Head, and eight hands with Benedictine mudras, ‘ankusham’, gadhA (mace), shanKham, cakram, Skull, and Two Lotuses.

The form in picture as described in the shlokA

यो देवस्सविताऽस्माकं धियो धर्मादि गोचराः ।
प्रेरयेत्तस्य यद्भर्गस्तद्वरेण्यमुपास्महे ॥

yO dhEvassavithAasmAkam DhiyO DharmAdhi gOcarAh .
prErayEththasya yadBhargastadhvarENyamupAsmahE ..

This is a prayer you say before embarking on the meditation of standard
gAyatrI. It is very nice one, which explains the goal of that meditation.

We meditate on the excellent light of the deva called SavitA who
directs our intellect towards the ways of dharma.

॥ पञ्चपूजा ॥

लं पृथिव्यात्मने गन्धं कल्पयामि ।
हं आकाशात्मने पुष्पैः पूजयामि ।
यं वाय्वात्मने धूपं आघ्रापयामि ।
रं अग्न्यात्मने दीपं दर्शयामि ।
वं अमृतात्मने अमृतोपहारं निवेदयामि ।
सं सर्वात्मने सर्वोपचार पूजाः समर्पयामि ।

lam pruthivyaatmane gandham kalpayaami - touch the little fingers (both hands) with the thumb

ham aakaashaatmane pushpaih pujayaami - touch the thumbs with the index fingers

yam vaayvaatmane dhupam aaghraapayaami - touch the index fingers with the thumbs

ram agnyaatmane dipam darshayaami - touch the middle fingers with the thumbs

vam amrutaatmane amrutopahaaram nivedayaami - touch the ring fingers with the thumbs

sam sarvaatmane sarvopachaara pujaah samarpayaami - touch all the fingers together with the thumbs and spread open like a flower bloom

General Discussion / Re: Christian quotes
« on: December 05, 2012, 08:48:38 AM »

Canst thou by searching find out God? canst thou
find out the Almighty unto perfection? [It is] as high
as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst
thou know? The measure thereof [is] longer than the
earth, and broader than the sea.



என்புரு கன்பர்த மின்சொற்கொள் செவியும்

Ennnpuru Kannnbarda Minnnsorrkoll Seviyum

Your ears once heard the sweet songs of
those* whose very bones melted in love of you.

O Arunachala! (Your) ears, have received (with joy)
the sweet words of (Your true) devotees* whose bones
melted (due to their intense love for You).

*The songs of Sambandhar, Appar and
Manikkavachagar are full of love and sweetness.

(arunAcala akShara mana mAlai)

General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: December 05, 2012, 06:42:41 AM »
Oh God,
I don't like your separation, but
your grace is so great that you
show yourself in separation as well
bewilderment nut head are Thou!

I don't like pain of separation, but
your grace is so great that you
make even pain of separation,
sweetness nectar unparalleled
bewilderment nut head are Thou!

General Discussion / Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« on: December 05, 2012, 06:26:13 AM »
This is what Sri Ramakrishna had to say on this Great soul:

"He is a deep soul like the Falgu river, he has real spirituality within."

"Your bhava is that of Prahlada — ‘I am That’ and ‘I am God’s servant.’

"The Master (M.) is very pure."

"He has no pride."

"You are my own, of the same class substance like father and son."

"You are the inner as well as the outer pillar of Nata Mandir."

Such a Great soul wrote The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna,a Rare treasure trove that deals with all aspects of Spiritual Living and what is most important,it puts one right at the feet of The Great Master.

Sri Ravi, What a massive work is the Gospel, and i wonder how could anyone have been able to write the words of the Master, which are so mysterious and beyond ordinary human mind's grasp. I feel these above words of the The Master on Master Mahasya is very rare, what a blessing, how humble He should have been in order that the Master even expressed such things about Him, these expressions of the Master is nothing short of saying He is Him and Him is He.

These great devotees, are comparable to the great nAyanmArs and the Master Himself being the absolute paramEshwarA.

The Master truly becomes the Disciple here, meaning the disciple is [as good as] the Master. These kind of disciples look so huge and tall, like the gOpurams of great temples, that we look so small before them. It sprouts a feeling from within to disappear into oblivion out of shame seeing their greatness, humility and knowledge.

I do not know why but, when i see Master Mahasya, i see Muruganr and when I see Muruganar, i see Master Mahasya. Ramana and Ramakrishna is that paramporul, brahman.

General Discussion / Re: Teachings of Sri Ramakrishna
« on: December 05, 2012, 04:16:35 AM »

How is it ever possible for one man to liberate another
from the bondage of the world? God alone,
the Creator of this world-bewitching mAyA,
can save men from mAyA.
There is no other refuge but that great teacher,
SatchidAnanda [existance-knowledge-bliss].
How is it ever possible for men who have not
realized God or received His command,
and who are not strengthened with divine strength,
to save others from the prison-house of the world?

The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna


True adoration is becoming dissolved in the
sea of the homogeneous essence of the
Experience of the Self, just as
hail gets dissolved in the sea.

(Guru Ramana Vachana Mala, 140)

General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: December 04, 2012, 02:39:31 PM »
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.


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