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Messages - Nagaraj

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1891
what stops us from being quiet is fear of truth , because to the mind , truth , which the mind sees as nothingness , is death , so it avoids it by telling stories about things .

Where is fear Beloved Abstract? and Where is death? where is nothingness and where is the mind? what is avoided? and who tells stories about things?

IN the same line as you have expressed -

when you BELIEVE you are a separate person you are already in solitude from " others " .
what is really surrendered in realizing truth is the story of the self , the BELIEF that you are a separate person .

So long you believe in stories, stories you will see, the belief that you are seeing and telling stories, makes you see things as stories!

When you are able to see the Stories as the not yours, but His, all stories ceases! Or when you are able to see the stories not different from the Self, all stories cease!

:)


1892
General Discussion / Re: Common Discussion
« on: December 20, 2012, 06:55:14 PM »
What is Brahma-atma aikya?What is Brahma?What is atma?What is aikya?
I thought ,let me also use my rusty reasoning and give it some work. :)

Reminded of a painting competition where children participated.All but one child were busy Drawing and then colouring and when the time was up ,they handed over their painting to the teacher.One child which just did not use either pencil or colour handed over a Blank sheet.On being questioned,she said that she had drawn a Goat with Grass and  aTiger?On being further questioned she said,'Yes,The Goat had eaten the Grass and the Tiger sprang on the Goat and has carried it away;Now nothing is left to be seen'.

only the child is left to disappear further :D , perhaps, upon handing over the paper to the teacher, he is no more to be seen :)


1893
General Discussion / Re: Common Discussion
« on: December 20, 2012, 06:52:39 PM »
Dear Nagaraj,
      :) Please also explain that to us in simple english :)
Because I did not read this upanishad.
and more importantly a upanishad study means i have to look into what shankara says there.
so you can express your exact view on this. that would be good.
question is single pointed:
who gets brahma-atma-aikyam ?
body, mind or Self ... or anything else ! like a ghost may be ?

Please take time and see what Shankara has to say. Just to let you know that Adi Shankara called this Upanishad as the Mantra Upanishad. A key feature of the Svetasvatara Upanishad is its emphasis on the bhakti or Upasana aspect to realise the Supreme. It has passages allied in thought to the Sankhya Yoga, with the Upanishad laying equal stress on jnana, bhakt and other spiritual paths.

I do not have any personal view Udai, i am just re-producing as it is, i do not try to instill my own personal views on upanishads, any personal views, I occasionally express in my thread "My Musings"

You asked -

question is single pointed:
who gets brahma-atma-aikyam ?
body, mind or Self ... or anything else ! like a ghost may be ?

I have provided for the response to your query in in what i quoted from Svetasvatara Upanishad (6.23) -

यस्य देवे परा भक्तिः यथा देवे तथा गुरौ ।
तस्यैते कथिता ह्यर्थाः प्रकाशन्ते महात्मनः ॥
प्रकाशन्ते महात्मन इति ।


यस्य For whom देवे to God परा भक्तिः Supreme devotion यथा देवे as to God तथा So गुरौ To the Master ।
तस्यैते To that [high souled] one कथिता expounded ह्यर्थाः these truths प्रकाशन्ते shine महात्मनः to that high souled॥
प्रकाशन्ते महात्मन इति shine as High Soul indeed.

These truths, when taught, shine forth only in that high-souled one who has Supreme Devotion to God, and an equal degree of devotion the Spiritual Master. They shine forth in that High-Souled one only.



1894
General Discussion / Re: Common Discussion
« on: December 20, 2012, 06:24:15 PM »
When you said "Brahma-atma-aikyam" is jnanam/bhakti ...
what do you mean ?
Who needs this ?
Self ? Which is ever one with Brahma-atma-aikyam does not need it.
Body ? Does not need it !
so you are left with mind...
plz tell me ...

I quote from the Svetasvatara Upanishad (6.23) to your query -

यस्य देवे परा भक्तिः यथा देवे तथा गुरौ ।
तस्यैते कथिता ह्यर्थाः प्रकाशन्ते महात्मनः ॥
प्रकाशन्ते महात्मन इति ।


यस्य For whom देवे to God परा भक्तिः Supreme devotion यथा देवे as to God तथा So गुरौ To the Master ।
तस्यैते To that [high souled] one कथिता expounded ह्यर्थाः these truths प्रकाशन्ते shine महात्मनः to that high souled॥
प्रकाशन्ते महात्मन इति shine as High Soul indeed.

These truths, when taught, shine forth only in that high-souled one who has Supreme Devotion to God, and an equal degree of devotion the Spiritual Master. They shine forth in that High-Souled one only.


1895
General Discussion / Re: Common Discussion
« on: December 20, 2012, 05:56:17 PM »
Brahma-Atma-Aikya-Bodha vina, without this Brahma-Atma-Aikyam ... no possibility of liberation.

How does Brahma Atma Aikya Bodha Vina occur? and where does it not occur?

1. How does a person find liberation ?

Who is it that finds liberation?

2. What is liberation ?

Who remains to know what is liberation? You have said, however, brahma atma aikya is liberation, as quoted by Adi Shankara.

3. Who finds liberation ?

This is my question to your 1st question.

4. What is bhakti ?

Brahma Atma Aikya is Bhakti


5. Whats jnana ?

Brahma Atma Aikya is jnana


1896
General Discussion / Re: Common Discussion
« on: December 20, 2012, 05:05:40 PM »
Quote
:) is it not?
:) No.
Jnana Viheena Sarvamathena, bhajati na muktim janma shatena.
One without jnana, what ever religious system he practises, will not find liberation even in a 100 births.
Lets not discuss this here however. These are like my musings ... if they seem dry to some its ok.

What jnana you are talking about? can you please elaborate the Jnana? :) what is the basis of your saying 'NO'


1897
Bingo, I knew, you would ask this, :D

my answer: "I do not know", i am comfortable in saying this so, all that i surely know is the fact of my not knowing! This much I can vouch safe clearly! However I am prompted to present the below words of a great Sage and I believe He is doing so. That is faith!

O Mother, what a machine is this that Thou hast made! What pranks Thou playest with this toy Three and a half cubits high!

God alone is the Doer. I say: 'O Lord, I do as Thou doest through me. I speak as Thou speakest through me. I am the machine and Thou art the Operator. I am the house and Thou art the Indweller. I am the engine and Thou art the Engineer.'


:)


1898
Sri Jewel, and friends,

just in a lighter vein, :) ultimately, what you have expressed also becomes your own way and practice which you have expressed, which also amounts to defending our own way of practice and living :D

it becomes an endless cycle, then, is it not? then there would be no scope of exchanges at all. Infact, this expression of yours has come from profound insight, discerning the futility of reasoning, each one ultimately converses with oneself alone, and it is absolutely not possible to share knowledge, knowledge has to sprout from within, knowledge is not something that can be given or taken. that was the essence that was being communicated in the series of exchanges now and in the past. you have come to right conclusions, which i truly believe is in line with the teachings of Sri Ramana, Sri Ramakrishna, the Knowledge scriptures, and others. we now realise, what good it is in presenting our views, who presents the views and who receives it? when such flashes occur from within, we just want to keep quiet and surrender, knowing how little we are, how small we are.

When the amrit manthan happened, in the ocean, when the devas and asuras churned the ocean, both poisons and nectar sprang forth, and only in the end, only finally, the nectar came. When the churning is happening, many things come up, but the true disciple ignores the semi divine wonderful things that spring from the churning and stay put with the real purpose, the ultimate truth.

It may also seem all are saying the same truth, but in their own way, but true disciple realises and stops not with this, he surrenders and gives up!!! all is maya.

:)


1899
General topics / Re: Thayumanavar - Blessings
« on: December 20, 2012, 03:54:04 PM »
Sir, too many wonderful ambrosial platters in one single plate, confusing which one to take, wish, could gobble up all together!


1900
General topics / Re: Thayumanavar - Blessings
« on: December 20, 2012, 03:45:27 PM »
Dear Sir, friends,

What a great revelation (from The third verse of Tiru AruL Parasiva VaNakkam) -

சித்தமறி யாதபடி சித்தத்தில் நின்றிலகு

That which is in thought
Without thought cognizing it,


absolute wonder!!!! what an expression, this is !!


1901
General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: December 20, 2012, 02:36:23 PM »
Its a great miracle to see people who go to sleep in the night wake up in the morning on time for morning coffee and those who take a short nap, wake up on time for nice tea, what a biggest miracle, that i am witnessing all these!


1902
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Re: Light Post
« on: December 20, 2012, 02:30:28 PM »
Really Nice.. :)

The following came to my mind -

Bhakti is mirror for Jnana and Jnana is Mirror for Bhakti

When Bhakti sees the mirror Jnana is seen, When Jnana sees the mirror Bhakti is seen :)


1903
General Discussion / Re: Poems, Sayings on Solitude
« on: December 20, 2012, 02:26:51 PM »

O SOLITUDE! if I must with thee dwell,
Let it not be among the jumbled heap
Of murky buildings; climb with me the steep,-
Nature’s observatory - whence the dell,
Its flowery slopes, its river’s crystal swell,
May seem a span; let me thy vigils keep
’Mongst boughs pavillion’d, where the deer’s swift leap
Startles the wild bee from the fox-glove bell.
But though I’ll gladly trace these scenes with thee,
Yet the sweet converse of an innocent mind,
Whose words are images of thoughts refin’d,
Is my soul’s pleasure; and it sure must be
Almost the highest bliss of human-kind,
When to thy haunts two kindred spirits flee.


(John Keats)


1904
Friends,

I am reminded about this wonderful expression of Gregory of Nyssa, a 4th century christian saint:

When I see every hill top, every valley, every plain covered with fresh sprung grass, and then the various array of the trees, and at my feet the lilies, doubly furnished by nature, both with pleasant and with beauty of colour; where in the distance I behold the sea, to which the wondering cloud leads the way, my mind is siezed by a melancholy which is not without happiness; and and when in autumn the fruits disappear, the leaves fall and the boughs are left bare, we are absorbed in the thought of the eternal and continously recurring change in the accord of the marvellous forces of nature. Whoever apprehends this with this intelligent eyes of the soul, feels the littleness of man compared with the greatness of the universe.


1905
General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: December 20, 2012, 02:07:35 PM »
Sir, Arunagirinathar is a symbol of great hope for all kinds of devotees, no matter how bad they may feel of themselves, what a transformation had transfigured within the great saint!


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