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Messages - Nagaraj

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1876
General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: December 21, 2012, 11:00:38 AM »
      :) Ramana saw everyone perfect, but if someone said something thats not wise, he did point out. so pointing out that a satement is not wise is ok.

So please consider the same view in your case too.

"na yogena na saNkhyena karmaNaa no na vidyayaa|
brahmaatma-ekatva bhodena mokshasya sidyati nanyathaa " ---> Vivekachudamani.

First tell me, how do you so coolly say, those who you see practicing Bhakti or yoga, or any other practices are ajnaanis? how do you know if they are in communion with Brahman or not?


1877
General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: December 21, 2012, 10:49:46 AM »
Even if it is true Jnana liberates, yes, Jnana also liberates. I will never agree with you, as you are certainly lacking in fundamental principle. Your are still falling short of Tapas. The Kaivalyam is yet to happen completely. As I have said before, you are stuck with knowledge, which you have to give up, only then can you allow that which is to shine. But unless this, occurs, you may say 100 things that are true, but still will not be accepted or resonated as you still see yourself different from others, you are still stuck in knowledge and ignorance, you are still stuck in liberation and non-liberation, you are still stuck in paths, this path alone liberates, no other paths liberates, you are still stuck in methods.

this is nothing personal, as a deep disciples or sadhakas in quest of Truth, I am sure you will take this in the right spirit.

Wisdom will shine like thousand suns Udai, just like your name Udai it will arise and shine forth, there no effort will be necessary. when it shinies, it will shine every where equally, without any views and opinions, unabashedly.

Now just coz Ramana is a Jnani does not mean he will say "wah wah" to waht ever anyone says !
You are really superb.

I do not get what you are trying to say. certainly it is not in the right decorum to use the words "wah wah" in context to a Guru. That is not a mark of shraddha. Ramana remained silent!


1878
General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: December 21, 2012, 10:37:21 AM »
In Mahabharatha, there is a parable which stands testimony to Yudhishtra’s  inherent greatness when compared with Duriyodhana. One day Duriyodhana is summoned and asked to bring one good man from the earth. In the evening a disillusioned Duriyodhana returns, grumbling about how there isn’t one decent man left on the face of the earth. The very same day, Yudhishtra returns, shaking his head in utter dismay, genuinely unable to spot ONE BAD man, on which endeavour he was sent!! Each saw in the world what he found himself to be. Much as Duriyodana tried to rule the kingdom and prove his supremacy, it is proven beyond doubt that he must have been a tormented man, unhappy with himself on the core level. While Yudhishtra was intrinsically happy and contented even when he was in the forest, divested of the kingdom and the honours of a princely life!

This would be the greatest test of true spirituality – when one is unable to judge or condemn another human being, unable to hate, regardless of how different or even obnoxious he may be, it is only THEN that the individual is truly spiritual.


1879
General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: December 21, 2012, 10:36:01 AM »
well, it does not matter if it is seemingly wise statement each one gets what they want, yad bhaavam tad bhavati :)

What sort of jnana are you talking about, that is unable to see the Self in all? what sort of Jnana are you talking about that only sees Jnana in oneself but only imperfection outside of oneself? Please ponder! If its true Jnana, you will only see Jnana everywhere, and not engage in saying only Jnana liberates.


1880
General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: December 21, 2012, 10:32:42 AM »
Then what was this ?
Quote
Therefore, it is not wisdom to conclude that one can only realise by a particular way. It is originating from avidya, who ever says so, be he, in either of the paths.
you first speak of paths and then come up with a seemingly wise statement !

Dear friend, it is directed to you to not be in wrong conclusion that only knowledge liberates, only knowing oneself liberates. Each person as he is will care of himself, all we need to do is mind our own selves, and our own abidance.

You remain happy where you are, do not emerge from your abidance and tell to non existing others that only knowing oneself liberates and all. That is the error.


1881
General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: December 21, 2012, 10:24:56 AM »
only the question is ... if i have to reach myself, why take a complete tour ? anyways those interested can do so.

Tushnim, that there is complete tour and short tour is only a fiction of imagination. There is no journey at all! This is the error.


1882
General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: December 21, 2012, 10:22:13 AM »
Therefore, it is not wisdom to conclude that one can only realise by a particular way. It is originating from avidya, who ever says so, be he, in either of the paths.


1883
General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: December 21, 2012, 10:09:36 AM »
Both have to give up liberation, the first, gives up knowing there is nothing to realise, the second gives up even without knowing there is nothing to realise, he does not even care of realisation.


1884
General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: December 21, 2012, 10:03:20 AM »
the person in the path of jnana says, unless one knows oneself, there cannot be liberation. having known, the person has to give that knower, the possessor of 'knowing' oneself, we are all quite clear in the dictum of Bhagavan and there is no jnani but there is only 'Jnanam'

Similarly, it is not necessary that the 10th person does not know oneself, he gives himself up - the 'knower' the possessor in the almighty. Again this clearly is in confirm with Bhagavan's dictum, there is no Bhakta but only 'bhakti'.

IN the first case, the sadhaka first knows oneself and the gives himself up, in the second case, the sadhaka sees the Truth, beforehand, and sees no necessity to know oneself, and he gives himself up, as he has already known the futility of knowing himself, that is just ego.


1885
General Discussion / Re: Common Discussion
« on: December 21, 2012, 09:10:51 AM »
Tushnim,

Knowledge is love, but Bhakti is not knowledge?  ;)

can you please respond to Sri Jewel's observation -

And paths,rutes are different expressions of both. These are little different things about which You are talking. And all agree on one fact,that there is no such thing like Realisation. With love and prayers,


1886
General Discussion / Re: Christian quotes
« on: December 21, 2012, 06:38:23 AM »


Rest in the LORD, and wait patiently for him

(Psalms 37.7)


1887
General Discussion / Re: Christian quotes
« on: December 21, 2012, 06:35:49 AM »


Trust in the LORD, and do good; [so] shalt thou dwell in the
land, and verily thou shalt be fed.


(Psalms 37.3)


1888
General Discussion / Re: Common Discussion
« on: December 20, 2012, 08:11:17 PM »
Jewell -> Myself -> Nagaraj [intermediating] Discussion

If you are purna , Complete here and now ... Anything you do to "attain" purnatvam is a only strengthening the idea that you are not purna.
So ... Jnana alone liberates.
As even the 10th man has only to know that he is the 10th man ... he need not surrender to a 10th man, nor pray to 11th man.

Sri Udai, I request to specifically respond to her post. What you have now said is a different matter, which can be discussed later.

Quote
personally, i would like to keep off from all siddhantas - neither advaita nor dvaita, visishtadvaita, advaitaadvaita, dvaitaadvaita, shunya, shaiva, vaishnava, also want to walk away from the terms brahman, atman, aikyam, mukti, jivanmukti, kingdom of heaven, nirvana, what ever else is left out.

This siddhanta of yours to keep all those siddhantas "off" :D
This will be left out.
Plz leave this , and be a good advaita boy. you will do well.

This, yet again is an onlookers point of view :D if it be a new Siddhanta, hey! :D great, I have discovered a new Siddhanta :D

It is said when Brahma yawned, the hayaghriva demon, swallowed all the vedas :D and Vishnu had to take Matsya Avatar to retrieve all the Vedas once again.


1889
General Discussion / Re: Common Discussion
« on: December 20, 2012, 07:57:26 PM »
I am reproducing all the posts from Adhyatma Ramayana Thread. Sri Jewel, you need not take the pain to transfer, but you can just delete your posts :) that would do.

Sri Udai,

Adyaatma Ramayana is truly wonderful. I felt like expressing couple of thoughts. A person of strong faith, realises that Rama is supreme being, simply by the sheer fact that He is Rama, and he killed Ravana, and he was maryada purush. That he is the ideal/perfect man is enough for a layman to realise that He is the Supreme being, a person of such faith does not require to know that Rama was untouched by Suffering, and Sita was Maya, and Rama simply sported the games for giving light to the world and so on.

Where as, on the other hand, the one that is looking for deeper insights on the Truth, that Rama was, who desires to know the nature of para brahman that Rama was, discerns what Rama truly is.

i felt like expressing this to you, and this is not even showing any difference between the two, the former and the latter are happy in their own sweet place. :) is it not?



Dear Nagaraj,
        :)

Quote
:) is it not?
:) No.

Jnana Viheena Sarvamathena, bhajati na muktim janma shatena.
One without jnana, what ever religious system he practises, will not find liberation even in a 100 births.
Lets not discuss this here however. These are like my musings ... if they seem dry to some its ok.

Dear Sri Jewel,

:) I am curious to know your view on Tushnims above expression. Would you be kind enough to please let know your view? Thanks so much.

Quote
:) is it not?
:) No.

Jnana Viheena Sarvamathena, bhajati na muktim janma shatena.
One without jnana, what ever religious system he practises, will not find liberation even in a 100 births.
Lets not discuss this here however. These are like my musings ... if they seem dry to some its ok.



Nagraj, Jewell --- lets move that to common discussion ... its a very common thing for discussion. and this is uncommon thread :D

Dear Sri Nagaraj, Strangly,but truly not strangly at all,without trying to vague betwean Yours and Sri Tushnim expression,i find both statements valid. It doasnt matter what path someone choses,with strong faith and surrender,anyone can realise the Truth,and he dont need to know anything about the facts,or God. And other statement is also correct,because,without jnana,and for me that is knowledge about what is ego,realisation is impossible. So,the first person will arive,with path of love,realising in the end what he realy is,and what ego and God are. In that light other is true also. And the second will arive by the path of knowledge,realising the same thing. But,ultimatievly,both are led by the same power,the Grace and Love. Thats why i say both are same thing,only different in expression,and suited for different kind of people.

So,i will say that we can arive to the Truth no matter what path we chose. And we will arive to it using both in the end,bhakti and jnana. I dont mean on selfinquiry when i say jnana,but on knowledge what the ego,mind,person,maya,realy is. Selfinquiry is the mettod,like there are a many mettods,and we can chose what ever we want. But in the end,we all we realise same thing. And jnana Is the path of introspection,investigation,it doasnt need to apply much learning. Like bhakti is the path of love,with simple surrender to the chosen Ideal. Both are the same. In jnana we have Ideal too,like in bhakti we have knowledge also. In both we have all the thoughts replaced with one. They are,for me,different rutes only,but in essence,both have the same interrelation with knowledge and love. Both come on the same,no matter how we call them. With love and prayers,

Thanks so much Sri Jewel, :)

Now I request Sri Tushnim to please express his views on your,  above expression.



Nagaraj ji , your are very clever.

Coming to the point ... I am going to answer in the common thread and you can delete this and post it there plz ?
then v will discuss  this.



1890
General Discussion / Re: Common Discussion
« on: December 20, 2012, 07:30:12 PM »
Sri Ravi,

unfortunately, generally it is seen that simple things are not appealing enough!

The real problem with current spirituality, is it is ridden with philosophic systems or siddhantas.

personally, i would like to keep off from all siddhantas - neither advaita nor dvaita, visishtadvaita, advaitaadvaita, dvaitaadvaita, shunya, shaiva, vaishnava, also want to walk away from the terms brahman, atman, aikyam, mukti, jivanmukti, kingdom of heaven, nirvana, what ever else is left out.

Free from all mad crowd. happy doing things without names attributed, without calling something as bhakti or jnana or discernment or joy and so on :D no care for mukti or bandha.

I remember the wonderful quote of Sharada Devi, who used to scold his disciples for too much effort. She compared them to mangoes on the tree which are being plucked before they are ripe. 'Why hurry?' she used to say. 'Wait till you are fully ripe, mellow and sweet.'

:)


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