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Messages - Nagaraj

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1741
General topics / What is this Ego?
« on: December 28, 2012, 04:28:46 PM »
The gross egoism is not so dangerous as the subtle egoism

Ego or Egoism or Egotism or Ahamkara in Sanskrit is the self-asserting principle or Tattva born of ignorance or Prakriti. Abhimana is egoism. Garva is egoism.

The seed of this ego is the differentiating intellect or Bheda Buddhi. It is the ego which has created the idea of separateness from God or the Atman. It is the ego which is the root cause for all human sufferings and births and deaths.

This ego identifies itself with the body, mind, Prana, the senses. Wherever there is ego, there are mineness, selfishness, likes and dislikes, lust, anger, greed, hypocrisy, pride, jealousy, delusion, arrogance, conceit, impertinence, Vasanas, Trishna or cravings and Vrittis or Sankalpa, clinging to this earth-life (Abhinivesha), agency, doer (Kartha) and enjoyer (Bhokta).

You must have very clear understanding of the nature of this ego, if you want to annihilate egoism. Killing of egoism is killing of mind only. Destruction of thought, desires, cravings, mineness, selfishness, jealousy, pride, lust is really destruction of mind or egoism. Control of senses also is annihilation of the mind or egoism.

This egoism assumes a subtle form. The gross egoism is not so dangerous as the subtle egoism. Institutional egoism is a subtle form of egoism. The man identifies himself with the institution and gets attached to the institution or cult. He has no broad-mindedness or catholicity.

The working of egoism is very mysterious. It is very difficult to detect its various ways of working. It needs a subtle and sharp intellect to find out its operation. If you practise introspection daily in silence you will be able to find out its mysterious ways of working.

This ego likes his own birth place and district, people of his district, own mother tongue, his own relations and friends, his own ways of eating, mode of dressing. He has his own predilections and preferences. He dislikes others' ways of eating, dressing etc.

This ego wants to exercise power and influence over others. He wants titles, prestige, status, respect, prosperity, house, wife, children. He wants self-aggrandisement. He wishes to domineer and rule over others. If anybody points out his defects, his vanity feels offended. If anyone praises him he is elated. This ego says, I know everything. He does not know anything. What I say is quite correct. What he says is quite incorrect. He is inferior to me. I am superior to him. He forces others to follow his ways and views.

This ego will lurk like a thief when you start introspection and self-analysis. It will elude your grasp and understanding. You must be ever alert and vigilant. If you obtain the grace of the Lord through Japa, Kirtan, prayer and devotion you can easily kill this ego. Through Lord's grace only your self-surrender will become Perfect.

When this ego melts in the cosmic ego you will attain communion with the Lord or Self-realisation.

May you realise the goal of life and attain everlasting Bliss through annihilation of this little ego!

(Swami Sivananda)


1742
Sir, Chidambaram is the place which gives us the medival tamizh village flavor. Traditional families always dress in the traditional way, even today we get to see that rich culture.

Tirumoolar sang:

மானுடராக்கை வடிவு சிவலிங்கம்
மானுடராக்கை வடிவு சிதம்பரம்
மானுடராக்கை வடிவு சதாசிவம்
மானுடராக்கை வடிவு திருக்கூத்தே


mAnudarAkkai vadivu sivalingam
mAnudarAkkai vadivu chidambaram
mAnudarAkkai vadivu sadAsivam
mAnudarAkkai vadivu thirukkoothe

Sivalingam is of the form of the human body;
So is Chidambaram ; So is Sadasivam ;
And so is his divine dance

Chidambaram

Lord Shiva dances here in Chidambaram. Before we speak of the Dance , we will explore the stage that is Chidambaram.

A temple is called ‘Kovil’ in Tamil. It literally means( Ko- il) the abode of the Lord. Whenever the mere name ‘kovil’ is mentioned, it specially means Chidambaram which is split as Chit( gnana or wisdom) + Ambaram ( akasa or space) .

Structure of a typical Siva Temple

A classical Siva temple as per Agama rules will have five prakaras or circuits each separated by walls one within the other. The outer prakaras will be open to the sky except the innermost one. The innermost one will house the main deity as well as other deities. There will be a massive wooden or stone flag post exactly in line with the main deity.

The innermost prakara houses the sanctum sanctorum ( karuvarai in Tamil). In it sits Shiva, the supreme Lord.

Symbolism behind the structure of a Shiva Temple

1. The temple is so constructed as to resemble the human body with all its subtleties.

2. The five walls encircling one another are the kosas ( sheaths) of human existence .

    a. The outermost is the Annamaya kosa , symbolizing the material body.
    b. The second is Pranamaya kosa , symbolizing the sheath of vital force or prana.
    c. The third is Manomaya kosa, symbolizing the sheath of the thoughts, the mana
    d. The fouth is the Vignyana maya kosa, symbolizing, the sheath of the intellect
    e. The fifth and innermost is the Ananda maya kosa, symbolizing the sheath of Bliss.

3. The sanctum which is in the prakara symbolizing the Ananda Maya Kosa sheath ,
    houses the lord, seated as the Jiva within us. It is to be noted that the sanctum is an
    unlit space, just as if within the heart closed on all sides.

4. The entry Gopuras are likened to the feet, as resembling a person who is lying on the
    back with the toe up.

5. The flag post depicts the sushumna nadi which raises from the Mooladhar (base of the
    spine ) to the sahasrar ( vertex in the head).

6. Some temples will have three prakarams. There they represent the stoola, sukshma
    and karana sareeras (bodies) of a human being Some temples have only one and they
    represent all the five.

 
  • The temple has the above five prakaras resembling the sheaths.
  • Nataraja gives dharshan from the sanctum called Chit Sabha with a golden roof.
  • The roof has 26,000 golden tiles (see picture), denoting the number of breaths of a person in a day.
  • These tiles are fixed to the wooden roof with the help of 72,000 nails depicting the number of nadis (the invisible ducts carrying     energy to various parts of the body)
  • As the heart is to the left of the body, the sanctum in Chidambaram is also aligned slightly leftward.
  • On top of the Chit sabha roof, we find nine kalasas (made of copper) depicting the nine shaktis (powers)
  • The roof has 64 cross wooden reapers denoting the 64 arts.
  • The artha mandapa has six pillars denoting the six shastras
  • The mantapa next to the artha mantapa has eighteen pillars symbolizing the eighteen puranas.
  • There are five steps leading to the Chit sabha from the Kanaka sabha depicting the five lettered Panchakshara mantra (Na ma chi vA ya)
  • The Chit sabha roof is supported by four pillars symbolic of the four Vedas.

Symbolism of Nataraja Swamy

1. Nataraja’s dance is said to indicate the five divine acts which are

    a. Creation . Nataraja dances with a small drum called damarukam in one of his
        right hands. Easwra is nada brahmam. He is the origin of all sounds (nadam).This is
        the seed (vindu) from which the tree of the Universe emanated.

    b. Protection (Operation)- In another of the right hands, he shows the ‘Abhaya
        Mudra’, meaning he is the kind protector .

    c. Destruction; He has fire in one of his left hands , symbolizing destruction.
        When everything is destroyed by fire, only the ash will remain which the Lord has
        smeared on his body.

    d. The foot which is planted shows the act of hiding

    e. The raised foot shows the act of bestowing

2. Nataraja swamy has the Vigraha ( icon) of Devi Sivakama Sundari to his left . This symbolizes Ardhanareeswara , ‘ the Lord who has 
    the female as his left half’. To his right there is a screen. When the deeparadhana – showing lamps takes place to the swamy and to     
    the left side , the screen is removed and we see five vertical long hangings of golden vilva leaves. We see nothing behind it. Sivakami
    shows the Saguna Brahman (the God with a form) that is Nataraja . The Saguna Brahman leads us to the Nirguna Brahman (the God
    without form or the God who has formlessness as his form). This is told as ‘Chidambara Rahasyam’ by the Dikshitars , who are the
    traditional pujaris in the temple.

3. Shiva’s dance is called the cosmic dance by many scholars. In Chidambaram, this dance is called ‘Ananda Tandava’

4. Lord Maha Vishnu also saw the Divine dance. In a nearby mantapa called Chitrakoota, Maha Vishnu, gives us dharshan in his fully   
    reclining Yoga Nidra pose on the snake bed. If one stands on a small lotus sculpted on the floor slab in front of Narayana, one can at   
    the same time see Nataraja in his right side.

5. Sages Patanjali and Thirumoolar also saw Nataraja’s dance in Chidambaram. Their figures are embossed on the Silver doors of the
    Chit Sabha.

(Source: http://bharataagamas.blogspot.in/2008/02/chidambara-rahasyam.html)


1743
Dear Sri Nagaraj, Can You please explane how bhakti can be beyond maya,or beyond That,coz we came to that conclusion obviously? And what helped You to read and understand Upanishads?

Sri Jewel, what was said was not whether Bhakti is beyond maya or beyond that, i present again, the quote, what was conveyed, yet again, for better clarity!

Quote
Bhakti comes not because of intellect, Bhakti comes only because of 'That', Bhakti is beyond intellect

It is not the question - what is helping us in reading and understanding upanishads, important; rather it is this question that is important - Who is it that is helped in reading and understanding upanishads, this alone is important!

Understanding here is of inconsequence, (no use) it is not what is understood that is important, but the one who is understanding, He ought to be pursued.

What is of use any understanding or discernment, if the one who is understanding is not sought after.


1744
Sri Sanjay, i have been clear in what i had expressed. I would like to present my expressions as it has been posted in the respective thread to ease out the tension.

Quote
'That', by which we are able to utilize the intellect or even know intellect, is alone important, you do not need intellect to know 'That'. Intellect is even known only because of 'That'.

Quote
Bhakti comes not because of intellect, Bhakti comes only because of 'That', Bhakti is beyond intellect

Quote
Who is it that uses intellect alone is important. Without knowing That, it is only Round-Robbin Who is it that feels the need for intellect? - These alone are important, as i see from the line of teachings of Bhagavan.

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but the moon can never know, as it is maya. The Upanishads and scriptures say, you are not the moon. That is all about it. There is no knowing really, but only wisdom of giving up the knowing.

The Self can never know itself. In the line of Bhagavan's teachings, the demand is like wanting to know that "I am Man"

Quote
Bhagavan's direct teaching is all about giving up these illusions, and all its efforts and sticking to only the source of everything. In this journey (not really a journey) there is no need to undo anything (as really there is nothing to undo), the only thing is to keep sticking to only That, the source, By which all these are seen. The moment we cease from this tapas, we are in samsara, trying to cut asunder something that is untrue, this is Maya.

Quote
no need to eliminate the ghosts. Like a child goes to its mother, go to a Guru, rest will be taken care. We are not asked to do anything external, in this case, we are already acquainted with the teachings of Bhagavan and therefore we are asked to enquire, who is it that wants to eliminate the ghosts, nothing else.

Quote
Only when one drops ones intelligence can one realise the ambrosia, it is nothing through intellect, that one gets anything, ones intelligence is nothing before that which is, what ever one realises or discerns is only because of 'That' alone and never by ones own intelligence, intellect.

Quote
the realization is all that is needed, you have said, then question follows, who is it that needs to be realized, the answer would be 'I', who am I, has to follow, without sticking to this, do you see the plays of the intellect? it is only maya, deviating one from tapas and taking one away from adhering to the teachings of Bhagavan.

Thank you.


1745
Sri Atmavichar, i share your views :) Thanks to Graham for truly believing in us :D

I only aspire to learn to be a silent spectator as Sri Graham has mastered :) (just in a lighter sense)

I have had good satsang here, got opportunity to be introduced to various tamil scriptures, really been blessed to atleast go near the ambrosial expressions of various tamil saints, if not yet been able to immerse completely in them. This Forum has been of constant help in Swadhyaya, self study.

उद्धरेदात्मनात्मानं नात्मानमवसादयेत् ।
आत्मैव ह्यात्मनो बन्धुरात्मैव रिपुरात्मनः ॥


uddharedātmanātmānaṁ nātmānamavasādayet,
ātmaiva hyātmano bandhurātmaiva ripurātmanaḥ.

By the self thou shouldst deliver the self, thou shouldst not depress and cast down the self
(whether by self-indulgence or suppression);
for the self is the friend of the self and the self is the enemy.

Gratitude


1746
A gentleman from Hardwar: When I go on analysing myself I go beyond the intellect, and then there is no happiness.

M.: Intellect is only an instrument of the Self. It cannot help you to know what is beyond itself.

D.: I understand it. But there is no happiness beyond it.

M.: The intellect is the instrument wherewith to know unknown things.But you are already known, being the Self which is itself knowledge;so you do not become the object of knowledge. The intellect makes you see things outside, and not that which is its own source.

The intellect is useful thus far, it helps you to analyse yourself, and no further. It must then be merged into the ego, and the source of the ego must be sought. If that be done the ego disappears. Remain as that source and then the ego does not arise.

D.: There is no happiness in that state.

M.: ‘There is no happiness’ is only a thought. The Self is bliss, pure and simple. You are the Self. So you cannot but be bliss; being so,you cannot say here is no happiness. That which says so cannot be the Self; it is the non-Self and must be got rid of in order to realise the bliss of the Self.

D.: How is that to be done?

M.: See wherefrom the thought arises. It is the mind. See for whom the mind or intellect functions. For the ego. Merge the intellect in the ego and seek the source of the ego. The ego disappears. ‘I know’ and ‘I do not know’ imply a subject and an object. They are due to duality. The Self is pure and absolute, One and alone. There are no two selves so that one may know the other. What is duality then?

It cannot be the Self which is One and alone. It must be non-Self.Duality is the characteristic of the ego. When thoughts arise duality is present; know it to be the ego, and seek its source.

The degree of the absence of thoughts is the measure of your progress towards Self-Realisation. But Self-Realisation itself does not admit of progress; it is ever the same. The Self remains always in realisation.

The obstacles are thoughts. Progress is measured by the degree of removal of the obstacles to understanding that the Self is always realised. So thoughts must be checked by seeking to whom they arise. So you go to their Source, where they do not arise.


(Talks)


1747
A gentleman from Hardwar: When I go on analysing myself I go beyond the intellect, and then there is no happiness.

M.: Intellect is only an instrument of the Self. It cannot help you to know what is beyond itself.


(Talks)


1748
Brahman, while remaining unmoved, illumines the intellect.
This intellect projects its false imagination in the states of waking and
dreaming and merges in the nescience in the state of deep sleep.


(Vichara Mani Mala - Jewel Garland of Enquiry)


1749
General Discussion / Re: Common Discussion
« on: December 28, 2012, 09:17:26 AM »
Thank you for the enlightening discussion, Nagaraj garu.

Instead It would help, if enquiry is pursued as to who is that that is Thanking for an enlightening discussion!!

Thanks.


1750
General Discussion / Re: Common Discussion
« on: December 28, 2012, 09:11:38 AM »
I have no emotional approach :) - so never worry about it that way - in fact, people around me feel bad that I am like a stone with no emotions :) . Whatever I say is not because of "emotions" :). So dont worry.

Where intellect resides in place of Heart, stone is bound to be found. my pointer to you not to allow emotion take hold of you was at your own post, which was certainly not in good fervor.

Anyways, let me leave it here. Perhaps, I dont understand Nochur Acharya as much as you have, Nagaraj Garu. I listened to him umpteen times and re-listened yesterday again those specific areas where he says this explicitly - no confusion, very explicit words (It is in Malayalam and so I cannot post it here - in very simple straight words). Perhaps, I need lot more listening to reach your level. Looking forward to that...

oki, stopping with here!

prayers,


1751
General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: December 28, 2012, 09:00:27 AM »
Sri Sanjay :) whose realization is a pointer, pointing out, whose realization are you talking about, who is it, that needs to be enquired, not as what you have made it out to be!

That realization is all that is needed

the realization is all that is needed, you have said, then question follows, who is it that needs to be realized, the answer would be 'I', who am I, has to follow, without sticking to this, do you see the plays of the intellect? it is only maya, deviating one from tapas and taking one away from adhering to the teachings of Bhagavan.

Kindly introspect slowly, before coming to hasty conclusions.


1752
General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: December 28, 2012, 08:35:54 AM »
That realization is all that is needed - not being afraid of "intelligence" and running away from it :).

Whose realization are you talking about? :)

not being afraid of "intelligence" and running away from it :).

No comments on your above expression!


1753
General Discussion / Re: Common Discussion
« on: December 28, 2012, 08:33:56 AM »
'That' gave you intelligence to use it to find a path to 'That'.

Who is the 'you' you are referring to? Who is it that utilises to find a path? who is it that finds the path to 'That' :)

Anyways, let me leave it here. Perhaps, I dont understand Nochur Acharya as much as you have, Nagaraj Garu. I listened to him umpteen times and re-listened yesterday again those specific areas where he says this explicitly - no confusion, very explicit words (It is in Malayalam and so I cannot post it here - in very simple straight words). Perhaps, I need lot more listening to reach your level. Looking forward to that...

Sri Sanjay, please don't allow emotion to take hold of you.

Sri Sanjay,

you are contradicting your own observations. Kindly introspect your past observations -

Bhakthi without intellect can ruin you.

Quote
Bhakti comes because you have intellect  - else all animals would have bhakti


Cow Lakshmi showed Bhakti unparaled. Karuppan Dog, Monkeys, so many instances, please read Gajendra Moksha, Hanuman...

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If intellect has no role to play, it must be very easy for animals (esp. donkey ) to be self realized most quickly. Why is that not happening? It has no intellect or mind to interfere in the process

Whose intellect were you talking about then? Was it not yours? the general voice was that, without intellect, one cannot progress.

as lready expressed, In the line of teachings of Bhagavan, first show the intellect or find the intellect, then we can see who is getting bashings

with prayers,


1754
General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: December 28, 2012, 08:21:06 AM »
stray thought...

it is our limited intelligence that limits us, it is wise to allow the supreme intelligence to reign over.


1755
General Discussion / Re: Common Discussion
« on: December 28, 2012, 08:13:49 AM »
and how Bhakthi without intellect can ruin you.

??  :o

Thanks for your wishes Sri Sanjay :) but i feel, contrary to what you have expressed. How can one go near God, who keeps Intellect ahead of God itself?

Only when one drops ones intelligence can one realise the ambrosia, it is nothing through intellect, that one gets anything, ones intelligence is nothing before that which is, what ever one realises or discerns is only because of 'That' alone and never by ones own intelligence, intellect.

Wishing you best too, Sri Sanjay,

with prayers,


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