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Messages - Nagaraj

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1606
The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Destroying vasanas
« on: January 17, 2013, 04:45:52 PM »
Quote
Because the jnani is aware of the body, he will also be aware of the thoughts and vasanas that arise in that body. None of these vasanas has the power to cause bondage for him because he never identifies with them, but they do have the power to make the body behave in certain ways. The body of the jnani enjoys and experiences thses vasanas although the jnani himself is not affected by them. that is why its some times said that for the jnani there are bhoga vasanas but no bandha vasanas.

Vedas do not speak in the same spirit. A Jnani is free of all vasanas. Even if Vasanas do arise, whether one is affected or not is different matter, but Vasanas do arise.

It is not simply that we have a tradition of worshiping the bodies of Saints, it is because they are so pure, nothing remains in them to even affect them or they remain unaffected by anything.

I will try and post some posts from my source in coming times. We will take it from there.


1607
The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Destroying vasanas
« on: January 17, 2013, 04:39:21 PM »
I would like to highlight to stress the point in Sri Ramana quite mentioned by you, that it be not misread -

Quote
D: How can I control the mind?

M: There is no mind to control if the Self is realised. The Self shines forth when the mind vanishes. In
the realised man the mind may be active or inactive, the Self alone exists. For, the mind, body and world
are not separate from the Self; and they cannot remain apart from the Self. Can they be other than
the Self? When aware of the Self why should one worry about these shadows? How do they affect the
Self?

The point in red is most important.


1608
The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Destroying vasanas
« on: January 17, 2013, 04:35:56 PM »
Sri Tushnim,

I just read carefully, i somehow would prefer to stick to the traditional paramparic teachings. I would stick to my kula Guru (Sringeri and Paramacharya), and Sri Ramana as well never gave such explicit statements, he simply turns back the 'I' to the source, and Sri Ramakrishna as well has not given such explicit statements. Kindly excuse me to exit from this discussion. Somehow, this does not resonate with my heart.


1609
General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: January 17, 2013, 04:09:51 PM »
Stray Thoughts...

Faith in Guru increases as the dependence on the Guru reduces.

True knowing is really not knowing.

New found clarity does not last for ever.

Unknown is truly the only known.

Parents are truly the only Pratyaksha Deva (Visible God)


1610
Dear Friends,

Atma Swarupa, it is important to notice that word used is Swa Rupa if truly a form can be cognised then the scriptures may have used Atma Rupa instead of Atma Swarupa, like how we say, the Sun is Self illuminating, therefore the form of Atma is itself, there is no way, it can be cognized, as it is the cognizer itself.

I have wondered what is it that Bhagavan looks into into the vacancy of his gaze. The swarupa of Atma is like the black hole or like the bermuda triangle which sucks into it everything that appears before it into nothingness. It is eternal yajna. Constant tapas, like an unending circle.

What really struck me in the following quote of scripture is this -

He who knows, knows not, and he who knows not, knows.

a different thought occured to me, that truly the knower knows not anything, he has given up, he is truly the knower, he is constantly absorbed into that which cannot be fathomed. And that which cannot be fathomed is verily oneself!

which is why i am completely stunned at the expressions of Jnaneshwar, its a human wonder to me, the kind of expressions that have flowed from this great young saint. He says, can the tongue taste itself, can knife cut itself, can a flower smell its own fragrance and he gave out wonderful meaning by saying -

Just as a nose might become a fragrance,
Or ears might give out a melody
For their own enjoyment,
Or the eyes might produce a mirror
In order to see themselves
Or a tongue might become sweetness

Just so, the one pure Consciousness becomes
The enjoyer and the object of enjoyment,
The seer and the object of vision,
Without disturbing Its unity.

Somewhere he has expressed, what might happen when two mirrors are kept face to face, what can it reflect and what is reflected. Or it is like the two pupils of eye seeing each other,

God Himself is the devotee;
The goal is the path.
The whole universe is one solitary Being.
It is He who becomes a god,
And He who becomes a devotee.
In Himself,
He enjoys the kingdom of Stillness

Thank you all.


1611
The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Destroying vasanas
« on: January 17, 2013, 03:30:19 PM »
Udai,

I do not resonate with the line of view that there is one - binding vasanas, and the other non binding vasanas, which can continue. It is certainly not correct way to put it. what is meant when you say non binding vasanas can continue? continue for whom? so it implies, "to me" - as the answer, 'who am I' has to still continue. without enquiring the source of this 'I' , it is not enough even if so called non binding vasanas can continue! Unless the person to whom it continues is dissolved, it is not the end yet.

The way i see is that the the destruction of Vasanas is moksha, vasanakshayam moksham, as said by Shankara, now what you are presenting are speculation as to how the state will be like for the one who has freed oneself from binding vasanas and what sort of vasanas will be around him, etc... what i do discern is that one has to persist with the quest for Self, when one truly engages ones whole self with absolute steadfastness, there is no vasanas, only when one breaks from the tapas one falls into the grip of vasanas. when one is engaged in tapas, there is no talk of vasanas, only when one discontinues from the tapas one is flooded with all opinions.

Even the knowledge that vasanas has to be killed etc... understanding the true purport etc.. all these also come into picture only when one has discontinued from tapas.

Even the opinion that a Jivanmukta simply responds to only those karmas that present before him also is only the view of the onlooker alone.

the point is liberation cannot be defined at all. it is beyond anything one attempts to define.


1612
The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Destroying vasanas
« on: January 17, 2013, 11:49:45 AM »
My main point to your views regarding Vasanas is narrowed down to this -

That just belief and understanding that Vasanas do not bind one is not enough,

It may be true, Vasanas may not really bind one, but the Vasanas have to be overcome.


1613
The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Destroying vasanas
« on: January 17, 2013, 11:46:04 AM »
The beggar feels miserable ... when he knows he is the King who is playing role of a beggar ... situations wont change, but he is all joy. Still he loves a different temprature perhaps ... he has the choice to go into his palace and stay in conducive temperature ... but he does not coz he has chosen to act like the beggar with a purpose ... there is discomfort in the robes he wears ... the dust on his body ... but when he knows he is the King and lives in the beggar robes, its different from when he thinks he is the beggar and lives in the beggar robes!

Vasanas are robes. .. one of the pancha koshas.

ok, how through this example are you trying to say, that one may overcome ones vasanas? can one disrobe ones vasanas as the beggar?


1614
The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Destroying vasanas
« on: January 17, 2013, 11:43:09 AM »
if I understand that Knowledge of Shastras is only a luxury and does not define me ... my knowledge of shastras no more remains a hinderance ... as in the case of shankara who read so many shastras !!
so a vasana to read shastras is it binding it itself ? When I think it "Defines ME" and "Feel Proud" ... thats when it gains power and binds me ! when I know its a luxury ... when I see it as just a tool ... I read and yet remain untouched !! Like Shankara.

these expressions of yours are very vague, abstract, unclear.


1615
The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Destroying vasanas
« on: January 17, 2013, 11:38:15 AM »
Big Vasanas small vasana, there is nothing like big or small, for sure,

but the spirit of what was being conveyed is simply that we fail to take notice of the big elephant that be visible to our naked eye, where as we study deeply with a subtle brain and telescopic analyses.


1616
The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Destroying vasanas
« on: January 17, 2013, 11:34:47 AM »
लोकवासनया जन्तोः शास्त्रवासनयापि च ।
देहवासनया ज्ञानं यथावनैव जायते ॥२७१॥


lokavaasanayaa jantoh shaastravaasanayaapi ca
dehavaasanayaa jnyaanam yathaavanaiva jaayate . 271

People cannot attain Realisation because of their desire to run after the world, their thirst for unnecessary study of the scriptures and their anxiety to pamper the body.


1617
The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Destroying vasanas
« on: January 17, 2013, 11:24:51 AM »
Each one of us is uniqe ... we had unique experieces and memories... unique in terms of likes and dislikes ... for example you may like a particular temperature. Someoen else dislikes it. Taht is vasana. And diffeernt vasanas. But when one is put in a temperature thats not conducive, that is when we see if it is binding or not. IF it is binding, one feels not just a discomfort but unhappiness and a sense of lacking.
if its non-binding ... the acceptance is complete and one sees the discomfort as discomfort and leaves it there.

I think we can leave out these small vasanas in our discussion, lets focus on the major vasanas, kama krodha lobha madha matsarya.

we need not really spend so much time in discussing what Vasanas truly are, the Sages have revealed them already, they are the following as  -

love (Kama), anger (Krodha), avarice (Lobha), lust (Moha), pride (Madha), unhealthy competition (Matsarya), jealousy (Asooya)


1618
The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Destroying vasanas
« on: January 17, 2013, 11:20:48 AM »
Vasana is not just natural maintenance of body...

request to please read what i have conveyed, i have not said in my post natural maintainance of body is vasanas, request to please not to misquote so that the discussion can go on in the right spirit.

and Udai,

your argument that vasanas are non binding when ignorance is destroyed is not fully correct, for the natural maintainances of body cannot be called or termed as vasanas, irrespective of our efforts the breathing goes on, the heart beat goes on, the hunger calls and all of it goes on, vasanas is quite different, the body takes care of its needs, it is only the additional desires that emanates from oneself is termed as vasanas,

like we discussed yesterday, anger need not trouble you as you say you are awareness, but the anger ending up troubling somebody else, you cannot escape by saying you are awareness, that anger ought to be rooted. We cannot say anger is non-binding here.

There is no anger in a Sage. point blank.


1619
The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Destroying vasanas
« on: January 17, 2013, 11:17:53 AM »
Dear Udai,

:)
I am thoroughly open minded, if what is conveyed is truly resonating, i do not have least qualms in accepeting it and surrendering myself to what is truth, as truth is really humbling.

When ignorance goes Vasanas goes along with it or when Vasanas goes, ignorance goes along with it. It is not right to distinguish between the two.

They are both one and the same.


1620
The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Destroying vasanas
« on: January 17, 2013, 11:09:28 AM »
and Udai,

your argument that vasanas are non binding when ignorance is destroyed is not fully correct, for the natural maintainances of body cannot be called or termed as vasanas, irrespective of our efforts the breathing goes on, the heart beat goes on, the hunger calls and all of it goes on, vasanas is quite different, the body takes care of its needs, it is only the additional desires that emanates from oneself is termed as vasanas,

like we discussed yesterday, anger need not trouble you as you say you are awareness, but the anger ending up troubling somebody else, you cannot escape by saying you are awareness, that anger ought to be rooted. We cannot say anger is non-binding here.

There is no anger in a Sage. point blank.


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