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Messages - Nagaraj

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1441
General Discussion / Re: Teachings of Sri Ramakrishna
« on: February 21, 2013, 10:32:33 AM »
Buttermilk is made from the same substance as butter. One who realizes this knows that butter goes with buttermilk and buttermilk with butter. After separating the butter with great effort-that is to say, after attaining Brahmajnana-you will realize that as long as butter exists, buttermilk also must exist. Wherever there is butter there must be buttermilk as well. As long as one feels that Brahman exists, one must also be aware that the universe, living beings, and the twenty-four cosmic principles exist as well.

(The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna)


1442
Dear Udai,

it only means you still require more polishing.. do not feel you have reached some end. You are not. period. One whose heart is purified with ambrosia of Truth will never communicate with sarcasm. You seem to be floating in some sky, sometime, you will to be grounded, then you will remember. Thank you!

--

1443
General Discussion / Re: Teachings of Sri Ramakrishna
« on: February 21, 2013, 10:11:39 AM »


What a delirious fever is this that I suffer from!
O Mother, Thy grace is my only cure. . . .

(The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna)


1444
Dear Udai,

Some of us seem to be suffering from pick and chose disease. We pick some statements of Ramana and exclude some others conveniently to get what we want to imagine.

The final moral: Take the whole teaching and not just pick and chose what you want to :)
The vision has to be got and then one can live it.
unfortunately without getting the understanding people groop in darkness thinking various things.

As usual, you communication is full of distaste and thorns devoid of any compassion and love. However, as said before, always each one shares what one has, if one has flowers and thorns, we end up sharing both.

but i chose to ignore these and look into your post for personal benefit. Thank you. i will get back to you.

--

1445
Dear Sri Jewel,

The mind,sure,is ment to be without movements. Just Be. Presene,Awareness,staying in the core of our being,our knowing and feeling that we are. That is not possible in any other way,to be without thoughts,exept in holding on ones very Presence and Abidance. To try to be without thoughts in any other way is impossible,by my thinking. Peace comes from that,peace is that which follows constant effort to Abide. Until it is effortless.

thank you, that was a contemplative post. yes, there is no better way but to hold on to the Presence  and in abidance is the way but as pointed by me in previous posts, what stops us from holding on to the Presence is what i am aspiring to look into. Which is why i came up with questions - if by holding on to the Presence then, truly nothing else would really affect us or would any sankalpas would really affect us. Therefore, we have no other course but to exercise ourselves in Self Enquiry.

I am wondering, if it is bliss that is experienced keeping the mind in Self, why is it that we give in to our sankalpas of any kind, it goes to prove that even if it may mean temporary, we choose our sankalpa over keeping the mind in Self.

However, we are able to keep our minds absorbed in Self, some time, but not continuously as sahaja nirvikalpa.

Dear Sri Ravi,

Excellent post, Sri Aurobindo only could express like this. This is exactly what i have been striving to communicate, what you have italicized is precicely my concern and which i want to look into.

You can certainly go on developing the consciousness of the Witness Purusha above, but if it is only a witness and the lower Prakriti is allowed to have its own way, there would be no reason     why these conditions should ever stop. Many take that attitude – that the Purusha has to liberate itself by standing apart, and the Prakriti can be allowed to go on till the end of the life doing its own business – it is prАrabdha karma; when the body falls away, the Prakriti will drop also and the Purusha go off into the featureless Brahman! This is a comfortable theory, but of more than doubtful truth; I don't think liberation is so simple and facile a matter as that. In any case, the transformation which is the object of our yoga would not take place.

       The Purusha above is not only a Witness, he is the giver (or withholder) of the sanction; if he persistently refuses the sanction to a movement of Prakriti, keeping himself detached, then, even if it goes on for a time by its past momentum, it usually loses its hold after a time, becomes more feeble, less persistent, less concrete and in the end fades away. If you take the Purusha consciousness, it should be not only as the Witness but as the Anumanta, refusing sanction to the disturbing movements, sanctioning only peace, calm, purity and whatever else is part of the divine nature. This refusal of sanction need not mean a struggle with the lower Prakriti; it should be a quiet, persistent, detached refusal leaving unsupported, unassented to, without meaning or justification, the contrary action of the nature.

Sri Aurobindo[/size]

I do not know if i would end up conveying clearly, but, in exercising as above, i am faced with a nameless and answer-less question of "what to do?" but yes, intellectually, we discern there is truly nothing to do but, there is this unlimited-ness, that is expressed in a nameless question. Yes, we could interpret it as somethings like 'karma is being killed' and so on, but that unlimited expanse is so vast, there. I am aware these expressions are only from relative sphere, but there is a need from within to look at it. Here, when i am faced with this nameless question - "what to do?" i try and see in perspective, and i realise that the instrument which i am using is limited  but yet, there is no other way except being a honest observer. I remember the teachings, there is nothing to do, just be, truly nothing, just be, and so on... but that expanse never ends, it continues for ever, there seems to be no end to being a witness, because of which after a while the force of the energy of the nameless is quite in-depth, and here, after a while the only recourse is turning back to the limited relative sphere which seem to help only momentarily.

--

1446
General topics / Re: Tiruppavai.
« on: February 21, 2013, 09:11:37 AM »



   SEED OF SEEDS

Awaken, Little Girl!Even the birds are chirping
and in the temple of the Master of Garuda
(who himself is the king of birds)
the calling conch so white in hue
is sounding in strength,don't you hear?
He who suckled away the venom contained in
the deceit-laden breast of the demoness putanai
He who with a single sweep of his leg
smashed to smithereens the vicious wheel,
He is the seed of seeds reclined in wakeful slumber
on the serpent-couch in the ocean of milk.
Holding Him in heart,sages and yogis,
as they awaken gently and chant the name "Hari",
their incantation gathering volume
reverberates in rumbling resonance
to enter our minds and impart serenity.
Listen and ponder,our girl!



(Verse 6)


1447
questions for reflection

is there any experience in being still?

abiding is being self,
can being be experience?

Self being the most intimate to us, must be the most desired object of desire as well.

what is the goal really?

are we really striving to the goal as directed by the sages?

--

1448
Question : What is samadhi?
Ramana Maharshi : The state in which the unbroken experience of existence-consciousness is attained by the still mind, alone is samadhi. That still mind which is adorned with the attainment of the limitless supreme Self, alone is the reality of God.
When the mind is in communion with the Self in darkness, it is called nidra [sleep], that is, the immersion of the mind in ignorance. Immersion in a conscious or wakeful state is called samadhi. Samadhi is continuous inherence in the Self in a waking state. Nidra or sleep is also inherence in the Self but in an unconscious state. In sahaja samadhi the communion is con-tinuous.

Question : What are kevala nirvikalpa samadhi and sahaja nirvikalpa samadhi?
Ramana Maharshi :The immersion of the mind in the Self, but without its destruction, is kevala nirvikalpa samadhi. In this state one is not free from vasanas and so one does not therefore attain mukti. Only after the vasanas have been destroyed can one attain liberation.

Question : When can one practise sahaja samadhi?
Ramana Maharshi : Even from the beginning. Even though one practises kevala nirvikalpa samadhi for years together, if one has not rooted out the vasanas one will not attain liberation.

Question : May I have a clear idea of the difference between savikalpa and nirvikalpa?
Ramana Maharshi : Holding on to the supreme state is samadhi. When it is with effort due to mental disturbances, it is savikalpa. When these disturbances are absent, it is nirvikalpa. Remaining permanently in the primal state without effort is sahaja.

Question : Is nirvikalpa samadhi absolutely necessary before the attainment of sahaja?
Ramana Maharshi : Abiding permanently in any of these samadhis, either savikalpa or nirvikatpa, is sahaja [the natural state]. What is body-consciousness? It is the insentient body plus consciousness. Both of these must lie in another consciousness which is absolute and unaffected and which remains as it always is, with or without the body-consciousness. What does it then matter whether the body-consciousness is lost or retained, provided one is holding on to that pure consciousness? Total absence of body-consciousness has the advantage of making the samadhi more intense, although it makes no difference to the knowledge of the supreme.

(Be as you are)

--

1449
Dear Sir,

I am wondering, if it is bliss that is experienced keeping the mind in Self, why is it that we give in to our sankalpas of any kind, it goes to prove that even if it may mean temporary, we choose our sankalpa over keeping the mind in Self.

However, we are able to keep our minds absorbed in Self, some time, but not continuously as sahaja nirvikalpa.

my own intention is to see for myself or ourselves by our expressions here, that may give us some clues to bridge the void here.

--

1450
Sri Ravi,

Thank you, such an important post. "The first step is a quiet mind - silence is a further step" if we keep remembering and strive this alone, it would do us so much good.

Brings a very clear perspective now and give a whole picture in our palm, that cam never let us go astray in imagined knowledge.

it requires a closer study.

--

1451


   

Dear Sri Anil ji,

i am unable to provide a genuine response that could better
silence which wishes to convey heartfelt gratitude to
yourself and every member of this forum.

1452
Udai,

Taking what you have conveyed, being that stillness and not being the changing movie which are sankalpas, there is a witness and witnessed. Let me quote to you from Who am I -

What is called “mind” is a wondrous power residing in the Self. It causes all thoughts to arise. Apart from thoughts, there is no such thing as mind. Therefore, thought is the nature of mind. Apart from thoughts, there is no independent entity called the world. In deep sleep there are no thoughts, and there is no world. In the states of waking and dream, there are thoughts, and there is a world also. Just as the spider emits the thread (of the web) out of itself and again withdraws it into itself, likewise the mind projects the world out of itself and again resolves it into itself. When the mind comes out of the Self, the world appears. Therefore, when the world appears (to be real), the Self does not appear; and when the Self appears (shines) the world does not appear. When one persistently inquires into the nature of the mind, the mind will end leaving the Self (as the residue). What is referred to as the Self is the Atman. The mind always exists only in dependence on something gross; it cannot stay alone. It is the mind that is called the subtle body or the soul (jiva).

Therefore, your observation does not meet the pramana of Bhagavan as He has revealed as follows in the above -

When the mind comes out of the Self, the world appears. Therefore, when the world appears (to be real), the Self does not appear; and when the Self appears (shines) the world does not appear.

And the sankalpas cannot exist by themselves, as in the above revelation Bhagavan says -

the mind will end leaving the Self (as the residue)

The mind always exists only in dependence on something gross; it cannot stay alone

What you say is just one of the sheeths, if its pure, it is just Vijnanamaya kosha, wisdom-apparent-sheath (Vijnana) but not Ananda itself.

--

1453
Let me begin...

Unless we get rid ourselves of our sankalpas, we will never be able to truly be in abidance or being still, as our sankalpas or tendencies will keep prompting us to act in our own volition.

1454
The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Being Still - Summa Iruthal
« on: February 20, 2013, 04:44:16 PM »
Dear Friends,

I am just opening this thread and leaving it to us to express ourselves whenever we feel any musings on the topic "Being Still" or "Summa Iruthal" Just for our own individual contemplation. Thank you.

1455
Besides that, saying (either), “I do not know myself”, (or), “I have known myself”, is a wide ground for ridicule. Why? To make oneself an  object known, are there two selves (one of which can be known by the other)? Because, being one is the truth of everyone’s experience  (that is, whether they be a Jnani or an ajnani, everyone experiences the truth ‘I am one’).

To say ‘I do not know myself’ or ‘I have known myself’ is cause for laughter. What? Are there two selves, one to be known by the other? There is but One, the Truth of the experience of all.


(Ulladu Naarpadu 33)

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