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Messages - Nagaraj

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Ashrams / Re: Impressions from travels to Tiruvannamalai
« on: March 25, 2013, 06:39:27 PM »
These are specially ordained by the Lord Almighty for each one of us to realise the truth.

After all, who is being cheated? is it not the 'i'? These are divine plans and divinely ordained! Whose money is being robbed after all? is it ours or God's?

Is there anything that can be claimed as ours? which can be snatched by others? who is snatching whose money? God is just asking His own money, He gives as He wills and He takes it as He wills!

There is no question of being cheated. We can never be cheated! This is the Truth!

Who are we? Even our body is not ours, nor even the mind and so on..

One is truly blessed when has been cheated royally!


D.: Will bhakti lead to mukti?
M.: Bhakti is not different from mukti. Bhakti is being as the Self (Swarupa). One is always that. He realises it by the means he adopts. What is bhakti? To think of God. That means: only one thought prevails to the exclusion of all other thoughts. That thought is of God which is the Self or it is the Self surrendered unto God. When He has taken you up nothing will assail you. The absence of thoughts is bhakti. It is also mukti.

The jnana method is said to be vichara (enquiry). That is nothing but ‘supreme devotion’ (parabhakti). The difference is in words only. You think that bhakti is meditation on the Supreme Being. So long as there is vibhakti (the sense of separateness), bhakti (reunion) is sought. The process will lead to the ultimate goal as is said in Srimad Bhagavad Gita:

arto jignasuh artharthi jnani cha Bharatarshabha
tesham jnani nityayukta ekabhaktir visishyate
— Ch. VII (l6, 17).

Any kind of meditation is good. But if the sense of separateness is lost and the object of meditation or the subject who meditates is  alone left behind without anything else to know, it is jnana. Jnana is said to be ekabhakti (single-minded devotion). The Jnani is the finality because he has become the Self and there is nothing more to do. He is also perfect and so fearless, dwitiyat vai bhayam bhavati - only the existence of a second gives rise to fear. This is mukti. It is also bhakti.

(Bhagavan Talks)


Service, like prayers, japas and even business done in God’s name, lead to the highest goal - Self-Realisation.

(Bhagavan Talks)


General Discussion / Re: does name Japa help churn the NAdis?
« on: March 25, 2013, 03:41:37 PM »
D.: Can advaita be realised by japa of holy names; say Rama, Krishna, etc.?
M.: Yes.
D.: Is it not a means of an inferior order?
M.: Have you been told to make japa or to discuss its order in the scheme of things? Silence.

Mental japa is very good. That helps meditation. Mind gets identified with the repetition and then you get to know what worship (puja) really is - the losing of one’s individuality in that which is worshipped.

The utterance and then remembrance and later meditation are the successive stages finally ending in involuntary and eternal japa. The japakarta (doer of japa) of that kind is the Self. Of all the japas, ‘Who am I?’ is the best.

Mantra japa leads to elimination of other thoughts and to concentration on the mantra. The

The next day Sri Bhagavan said: These people want some japa, dhyana, or yoga or something similar. Without their saying what they  have been doing so far what more can be said to them? Again, why japa, its phalasruti, etc.? Who is it that makes the japa? Who gets the fruits thereof? Can they not look to the Self? Or again, even if instructed by others to do japa or dhyana, they do it for some time, but are always looking to some results, e.g., visions, dreams, or thaumaturgic powers. If they do not find them they say they are not progressing or the tapas is not effective. Visions, etc., are no signs of progress. Mere performance of tapas is its progress also. Steadiness is what is required. Moreover they must entrust themselves to their mantra or their God and wait for its Grace. They don’t do so. Japa even once uttered has its own good effect, whether the individual is aware or not.

D.: Any amount of japa has not slackened the grip!
M.: How so! It will duly slacken and vanish.

When japa is the predominating tendency, vocal japa becomes eventually mental, which is the same as meditation.

D.: What is the result of “Rama Japa” (repetition of God Rama’s
M.: ‘Ra’ is Reality, ‘Ma’ is the mind; their union is the fruit of
“Rama Japa”. Utterance of words is not enough. The elimination
of thoughts is wisdom. It is the Absolute Existence.

You are always repeating the mantra automatically. If you are not aware of the ajapa (unspoken chant) which is eternally going on, you should take to japa. Japa is made with an effort. The effort is meant to ward off other thoughts. Then the japa becomes mental and internal. Finally, its ajapa and eternal nature will be realised. For it will be found to be going on even without your effort. The effortless state is the state of realisation.

D.: What should we do to make the mind still?
M.: First let the mind be caught hold of and brought here: then we shall consider ways and means of stilling it.
D.: I meant to say that it is always changing - even when we do our japa.
M.: Japa is meant only for stilling the mind.
D.: What japa is good for it?
M.: Anything suitable, such as Gayatri.
D.: Will Gayatri do?
M.: Can anything excel it? Only those who cannot do it look for others. It contains the whole range of truth in it. Chanting (japa) will lead
to dhyana (meditation) and it is the means for realising the Self.
D.: Will half an hour a day do for it?
M.: It must be done always, or as long as you can.

D.: Is not mental japa better than oral japa?
M.: Oral japa consists of sounds. The sounds arise from thoughts. For one must think before one expresses the thoughts in words. The thoughts form the mind. Therefore mental japa is better than oral japa.
D.: Should we not contemplate the japa and repeat it orally also?
M.: When the japa becomes mental where is the need for the sounds thereof? Japa, becoming mental, becomes contemplation. Dhyana,
contemplation and mental japa are the same. When thoughts cease to be promiscuous and one thought persists to the exclusion of all others it is said to be contemplation. The object of japa or dhyana is the exclusion of several thoughts and confining oneself to one single thought. Then that thought too vanishes into its source - absolute consciousness, i.e., the Self. The mind engages in japa and then sinks into its own source.

D.: Sri Bhagavan has said in one of the works that the japa must be traced to its source. Is it not the mind that is meant?
M.: All these are only the workings of the mind. Japa helps to fix the mind to a single thought. All other thoughts are first subordinated until they disappear. When it becomes mental it is called dhyana. Dhyana is your true nature. It is however called dhyana because

D.: Some upadesh will probably help me.
M.: If I say “Do - Rama, Rama” to one who has not struggled through books like you, he will do it and stick to it. If I say so to one like you who have read much and are investigating matters, you will not do it for long, because you will think, “Why should I do it? Above all, who am I that should be repeating the mantra? Let me find who I am before I proceed further”; and so you will stop japa and begin investigation.

Each one has some method of upasana or japa. If that is pursued in all sincerity with due perseverance, it will automatically lead to the investigation of the Self.

Tapas depends on the competency of the person. One requires a form to contemplate. But it is not enough. For can anyone keep looking  at an image always? So the image must be implemented by japa. Japa helps fixing the mind on the image, in addition to the eyesight. The result of these efforts is concentration of mind, which ends in the goal. He becomes what he thinks. Some are satisfied with the name of the image. Every form must have a name. That name denotes all the qualities of God. Constant japa puts off all other thoughts and fixes the mind. That is tapas. One-pointedness is the tapas wanted. The question what tapas is was asked in order to know what purpose to serve. It will take the form required for the purpose.

Dhyana may be external or internal or both. Japa is more important than external form. It must be done until it becomes natural. It starts with effort and is continued until it proceeds of itself. When natural it is called Realisation.

Japa may be done even while engaged in other work. That which is, the One Reality. It may be represented by a form, a japa, mantra, vichara or any kind of attempt. All of them finally resolve themselves into that One Single Reality. Bhakti, vichara, japa are only different forms of our efforts to keep out the unreality. The unreality is an obsession at present. Reality is our true nature. We are wrongly persisting in unreality, that is, thoughts and worldly activities. Cessation of these will reveal the Truth. Our attempts are directed towards keeping them out. It is done by thinking of the Reality only. Although it is our true nature it looks as if we are thinking of the Reality. What we do really amounts to the removal of obstacles for the revelation of our true Being. Meditation or vichara is thus a reversion to our true nature.

Japa means clinging to one thought to the exclusion of all other thoughts. That is the purpose of japa; it leads to dhyana which ends in Self-Realisation.

The object of mantra japa is to realise that the same japa is already going on in oneself even without effort. The oral japa becomes mental and the mental japa finally reveals itself as being eternal. That mantra is the person’s real nature. That is also the state of realisation.

D.: Can the bliss of samadhi be gained thus?
M.: The japa becomes mental and finally reveals itself as the Self. That is samadhi.

Mr. Venkatakrishnayya, a lawyer-devotee, visited Sri Bhagavan ten years before and asked Him what he should do to improve himself.

Sri Bhagavan told him to perform Gayatri Japa. The young man went away satisfied. When he returned after some years, he asked:
D.: If I meditate on the meaning of the Gayatri mantra, my mind again wanders. What is to be done?
M.: Were you told to meditate on the mantra or its meaning? You must think of the one who repeats the mantra.

The japa contains the word namah. It means that state in which the mind does not manifest apart from the Self. When the state is accomplished there will be an end of the japa. For the doer disappears and so also the action. The Eternal Being is alone left. Japa should be made until that state is reached. There is no escape from the Self. The doer will be automatically drawn into it. When once it is  done the man cannot do anything else but remain merged in the Self.

Long for it intensely so that the mind melts in devotion.



General topics / Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
« on: March 25, 2013, 09:33:12 AM »

General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: March 25, 2013, 09:31:32 AM »


Maharshi prized humility. He himself had a natural, effortless humility, and he frequently stressed that humility was necessary for spiritual development. But how to practice it? This is a big problem because attempting to be humble is just the ego adopting a new behavior pattern. If it's done deliberately, it's not true humility.

     Lakshmana Swamy, a direct disciple of Sri Ramana, also stresses humility, even occasionally saying that humility alone will be enough to attain realization of the Self. However, he defines humility as 'the mind humbling itself before the Self'. This, for me, is the true humility. To whatever extent your mind has surrendered to the Self within, to that extent you are humble. It is nothing to do with how you behave with other people. If the inner humility that comes from an attenuated mind is there, then true humility will manifest in outer behavior. Humility is egolessness, and egolessness is attained by making the mind subside into its source, the Self.

     Let me give you an extract from a book, Sri Ramana Darsanam, that I recently edited. This is Sri Ramana speaking about the necessity of humility:
     The power of humility, which bestows immortality, is the foremost among powers that are hard to attain. Since the only benefit of learning and other similar virtues is the attainment of humility, humility alone is the real ornament of the sages. It is the storehouse of all other virtues and is therefore extolled as the wealth of divine grace. Although it is a characteristic befitting wise people in general, it is especially indispensable for sadhus.

     Since attaining greatness is impossible for anyone except by humility, all the disciplines of conduct such as yama and niyama, which are prescribed specifically for aspirants on the spiritual path, have as their aim only the attainment of humility. Humility is indeed the hallmark of the destruction of the ego. Because of this, humility is especially extolled by sadhus themselves as the code of conduct befitting them.

     Moreover, for those who are residing at Arunachala, it is indispensable in every way. Arunachala is the sacred place where even the embodiments of God, Brahma, Vishnu and Sakti, humbly subsided. Since it has the power to humble even those who would not be humbled, those who do not humbly subside at Arunachala will surely not attain that redeeming virtue anywhere else. The Supreme Lord, who is the highest of the high, shines unrivalled and unsurpassed only because he remains the humblest of the humble. When the divine virtue of humility is necessary even for the Supreme Lord, who is totally independent, is it necessary to emphasize that it is absolutely indispensable for sadhus who do not have such independence? Therefore, just as in their inner life, in their outer life also sadhus should possess complete and perfect humility. It is not that humility is necessary only for devotees of the Lord; even for the Lord it is the characteristic virtue.

     In the final paragraph of this extract Sri Ramana mentions that God Himself derives His greatness from His humility. This is a point of view I have never found expressed by other teachers. We all imagine God as a being who has infinite power. Sri Ramana is on record as saying, perhaps somewhat whimsically, that God got His job because He was the most humble being in the universe, not because He was the most powerful. Here are two of his statements on this topic:
          One's greatness increases to the extent that one becomes humble. The reason why God is supreme to such an extent that the whole universe bows to Him is His sublime state of humility in which the deluded ego never rises unknowingly.

     Is it not on account of His behaving so humbly, as one ever in the service of every creature, that God stands worthy of all the glorious worships ever performed by all the worlds? By seeing Himself in all, by being humble even to devotees who bow to everyone, and by naturally remaining at such a pinnacle of humility that nothing can be humbler than Himself, the state of being supreme has come to the Lord.

     All this may sound very eccentric unless one understands that humility equates with egolessness, rather than with a kind of 'nice' or socially acceptable behaviour. God is God because he is utterly egoless, utterly humble, and not because He is omnipotent or omniscient.

(Excerpts from David Godman's Page)


General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: March 22, 2013, 05:34:19 PM »
Adi Shankara's name - satyanaash :D

GovindA GOvindA!



General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: March 22, 2013, 02:26:41 PM »
and as regards Aurobindo ... he being not liberated, he does not belong to the list anyways.

But Aurobindo never claimed to be part of any list . He had his own independent approach and we have to see him in that respect only .

Why should we even "see" him in any respect ?
he said something ... and that is filled with lot of superstitious ideas !
why can we not reject whats superstitious ... is it coz it comes from a person who is respected by many as a yogi ?

Then what respect you should be seen for all your nonsensical outbursts ?


General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: March 22, 2013, 02:12:11 PM »
Dear Atmavichar,

Our Swami Udai is seeing himself in the list. That is tge point !


General topics / Re: Quotes from Shankaracharya's
« on: March 22, 2013, 12:08:47 PM »
Fruit is not ripe yet. If you are unable to imbibe what is conveyed.

Travel in sanmaarga, you are conversing like being in adoliscence.

General topics / Re: Quotes from Shankaracharya's
« on: March 22, 2013, 11:47:09 AM »
Dear Udai

The stern approach you are referring to is no where even closer to your approach. You spill venom in your expressions.

सत्यम् ब्रूयात् प्रियम् ब्रूयात् न ब्रूयात् सत्यमप्रियम् |
प्रियम् नानृतं ब्रूयात् एष धर्मः सनातनः ||

satyam bruyat priyam bruyat na bruyat satyam apriyam
priyam ca nanrutam bruyat esha dharmah sanatanah

Speak truth in such a way that it should be pleasing to others. Never speak truth, which is unpleasant to others. Never speak untruth, which might be pleasant. This is the path of eternal morality, sanatana dharma.

There is no question of higher or lower. The Substratum is grace.

Sages words never are like yours, they are pure and unsullied and never spill venom even if they are stern. Unfortunately, you are not up to that yet. None are!

Realise and Be grounded to reality and fact.


General topics / Re: Quotes from Shankaracharya's
« on: March 22, 2013, 11:39:48 AM »

All these discussions we can have in a nice way and i am sure all members will also actively participate. You have to face it that ur attitude is dismal. What we send out we get back.

You please work out your approach.

I am surevyou know.


General topics / Re: Quotes from Shankaracharya's
« on: March 22, 2013, 11:34:41 AM »
I do not see where anybody has denied this. It all happens irrespwctive of it being called sravana persay.

General topics / Re: Quotes from Shankaracharya's
« on: March 22, 2013, 10:44:45 AM »
विद्या ददाति विनयं विनयाद्याति पात्रताम् ।
पात्रत्वाद्धनमाप्नोति धनाद्धर्मं ततः सुखम् ॥ ५ ॥

vidyA dadAti vinayaM, vinayAdyAti pAtratAM |
pAtratvAddhanamApnoti, dhanAddharmaM tataH sukhaM || 5 ||

Knowledege makes one humble, which gives one qualification. Being qualified,
one attains wealth for ther performance one's true purpose, which lead to happiness.

(Adi Shankara, Vishnu Shatpadi Stotram)

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