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Messages - atmavichar100

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2266
General Discussion / Re: Mantras to invoke a meditative mood
« on: August 22, 2012, 12:26:05 PM »
Mantras do work if you get it from a right Guru and you have also made eligible to receive the same .
In the absence of such a situation best is to "take few conscious breaths i.e consciously inhale ,exhale for 3 times and then observe your natural breathing for a few mts " .This will help relax you if not put you in a really meditative mood .

2267
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Re: Thiru Kural
« on: August 22, 2012, 10:47:13 AM »
Ravi

Thanks again for the inputs , just now went to the TGN Foundation website and market the same . Thanks for the info regarding Sri TGN Talks . As such for the past few years I avoid public talks or places where there is crowd , ir-respective of who the speaker is . Only recently I visited Sri Sringeri Barathi Teertha Swamigal ,Sri Swami Omkarananda more as a visit of respect and got some of their audio talks .
I prefer to listen to the talks in silence at my own home and reflect on the same . Only now I am getting active in a spiritual forum after a long gap and I am happy with all the inputs I am getting here .
If I have any doubts regarding Thirukural etc I will surely seek your explanation and in the meanwhile will try to get the books , audio of Sri TGN .
Om Peace .

2268
Subramaniam Sir

I am surprised by the fact that Adi Shankara had a duel with Saivites . I heard many years back in one of TV Venkataraman's talks on Thirumanthiram that Adi Shankara never had any sort of debate with any Saiva Siddhanta scholars and he was neither for it nor against it .
However that incident at Thiruvadai Maradur , with Mahalinga Swamy I am aware of but I did not know that the background to it was this duel between Shankara and Saiva Siddhanthas .

2269
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Re: Thiru Kural
« on: August 22, 2012, 09:56:29 AM »
Quote
However I thought that you may be interested in TirukkuraL per se and am sharing this in the hope it will be of some use.
For your information TG Narayanasamy is a  Jivanmukta ;he lives in chennai.He has stopped giving talks some years back,and I have referred to his talks on Tirukkural for what it is.
Namaskar.

Ravi

It is not just Thirukural but also Thiruvachagam , Thayumanavar songs , Theverams etc , I am interested in learning completely but since they are all quite serious literature ,and since my background in Classical Tamil is quite weak I am interested in first getting a starting point in the same and so starting with what Bhagawan Ramana recommended for all these texts . That is why I am opening all the Old threads regarding these topics and being an Arunachala - Ramana forum I do not want to bring in other topics that will be distracting to the main objectives of this forum .

I am happy with your inputs and also thank you for pointing out Shri T.G.Narayana Swamy . I have never heard of him and would like to know if he has published any books related to Thirukural or given talks in the same . If he has published any material , I would like to know from where I can get the same .

I appreciate your efforts for your prompt and detailed response in this thread as well as in the other threads  . I have just started to learn Thirukuarl verses and have completed the first 5 Chapters .I am not reading any meaning of the verses but just memorizing the verses first . I do not want to rush learning more but to just keep digesting what little I have learnt and I believe that verses of Kural are like Maha Vakyas that you can always use to contemplate on and reflect it in your own life .In that manner only I wanted to first see what Bhagwan has selected so that I can start with it .

I am saving your pages in my computer for my own self reflection and will forward it to my brother in USA who loves Thirukural a lot and has spent more than 10-12 years reading and reflecting on the same .
Continue your good work .
Om Peace .

2270
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Re: Thiru Kural
« on: August 22, 2012, 09:07:23 AM »
Dear Ravi

Thanks for ur detailed inputs on Thirukural .
I am not an expert in Thirukural or Tamil to comment on whose commentary on Thirukural is the best . Like Bhagavad Gita has lots of commentaries ( with each contradicting one another ) , same with Thirukural Kural and still people bringing out new versions of the same .
I have one relative who belongs to a Mystical Cult in Tamil Nadu and he uses the harshest words on "all " the current / past people giving talks on Thirukural or writing books on the same .He feels that the true meaning of it can be got only from a self realized Guru and that cannot be put in print or talk . So this is the Mystical perspective .
A relative of mine who is a great Historian says that Thirukural was never written by one person and it was written by a group of people like how they draft the constitution and might be Thiruvalluvar had headed that group , like we have Dr.B.R.Ambedkar who headed the constitution assembly and is called the Father of our Constitution and he says Thiruvalluvar was Democratic enough to keep all schools of thought in it so we have Hindus , Christians , Jains , Shaivities , Vaishnavites etc saying it reflects their thought .So this is the Historical Perspective .
People like Periyar, Karunanidhi  etc have given a Rational perspective of Thirukural .
Swami Omkarananda is given a Vedic Perspective of the same .
There will be many more perspective of Thirukural which I am not aware off and I feel all have a right to their respective  opinion and each individual chooses those version he /she is comfortable with
I am interested here in what was Bhagwan's Opinion on Thirukural .I did read about in a book where he did talk about Thiruvalluvar and Auviyar and I will find that book's name and page and post it here when I find it .
I once asked another person who is a serious Devotee of Bhagawan Ramana and his works about certain things missing in Bhagawan's talks or advice and Thirukuaral did come as one of such missing things . He said when Bhagwan kept silent over certain things it did not mean that he was not approving the same , it basically meant some people use his approval/ lack of approval  to ask mischievous questions and finally create a controversy eg. like some people asked him about Saint Ramakrishna Paramahamsa's fish eating habits and Bhagawan kept silent . If he says it is wrong people will say Bhagwan Criticized Saint Ramakrishna and if he says it is right then  everyone will say Bhagwan approves of eating fish .
So anyway Bhagawan is not with us right now and neither is Thiruvalluvar with us right now to approve what is right .
I am just seeking which are the Kural if at all Bhagwan has mentioned either as advice or for people to contemplate on .Like the way he selected 42 essential verses of Bhagavad Gita , I am interested whether Bhagawan did any such compilation on Thirukural ?
Anyway thanks for ur details reference points and I will keep it in my reading list for Kural .

2271
Ravi

Thanks for your info and I will go through the same .

Om Peace .

2272
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Re: Thiru Kural
« on: August 21, 2012, 09:56:12 PM »
Subramaniam Sir

Any inputs you have regarding Bhagwan's opinion on Thirukural .
Some say Bhagawan never recommended it as it did not talk about Moksa and has "Kamathu Paal" i.e on Love & Kama , other said Bhagwan did refer to certain selected portions from "Arathu Paal " only i.e related to  Dharma .

I found in one publication Bhagwan referring to Ayuvviar saying that Valluvar's 1330 verses were condensed by 1 verse of Ayuvviar .

In an Old TV Show that came in DD in early 90s about U Ve Swaminatha Iyer , there is a conversation about U Ve Swaminatha Iyer and Bhagwan and Bhagwan quotes a verse from Thirukural  regarding being detached i.e "Pattr attru" and U Ve Swamintahan says he can be free of any desire except the desire for Tamil and Bhagwan said that it is a valid desire and he can keep it .

Can u share anything about Bhagawan and Thirukural?

2273
Quote
Once Thaygaraja Mudaliar was on the banks of Kaveri river, drying
his tuft hair, after bath.  A student of him and came and asked:
Can you not, Sir, write a commentary on Tiruvachakam?"  Shocked,
Thyagraja Mudaliar told the student, "Me?  You better ask me to
jump into Kaveri and drown myslef.  That will be easier to do for me!
Tiruvachakam is a Raja Sarpam, the King Cobra.  Only a baby-cobra
can go near that.  Not people like me!  You are asking me to write
a commentary on Tiruvachakam!"

Tiruvachakam is such a difficult book.  What I am writing or some
authors have written in books, are mere literal meanings for the songs.  Each song has got four layers of meaning!  On bhakti marga, raja yoga marga, karma marga and Jnana marga!  Nobody has so far understood
all these layers of meaning!       

Subramaniam Sir

It is true Thiruvachagam is a difficult text to be understood just like that .Once Velayutha Mudaliar ,a close devotee of Saint Ramalinga Swamigal ( Vallalar ) asked Vallalar to explain to him the meaning of Thiruvachagam and Vallalar told him that he is ready to do but is he ready to listen and Mudaliar told him he is ready and then Vallalar started with Sivapuranam and started with the first word "Namah Shivaya Vazhgah" and he explained the significance  of "N" in Namah Shivaya itself for more than 2 hrs and Mudaliar had to fall at his feet and accept that he is not fit to receive the meaning of Thiruvachagam . Note : Velayutha Mudaliar himself was a great Scholar at that time .

2274
Subramaniam Sir

Did  Saint Thayumanvar follow Advaita  or Saiva Siddhantha or something different ?
Do u have any info about the Mouna Guru ? Swami Omkarananda has given talks on some of Saint Thayumanavar Songs and I am yet to listen to them fully .

2275
Ravi

I concur with what you say . Your last line sums it up very well between the teacher and student ,unless there is a wavelength it will not work .
As regarding Nochur I am sorry I have never attended any personal talk of his but have got a few CDs of his that I will listen in the coming days . Actually I never listened to any talks in the past few years of anyone as I was sort of keeping myself in silent sadhana , reflecting on what I have read and listened to earlier .I have only now started listening again slowly and started with Swami Omkarananda's Bhagvad Gita Talk for 30 mts in Shankara TV from 10.30 a.m - 11 a.m and attended couple of his talks here on Uddhava Gita at Padmanabha Swamy Temple .
Om Peace .

2276
General Discussion / Re: How many here do or dont do sandhya vandhanam
« on: August 21, 2012, 04:54:55 PM »
Note : These are just pointers from me , do what pleases you but do it with sincerity , faith and devotion and God will guide you accordingly .

Dear Atma Vichar,

These simple words are of great inspiration and trust me it also made me emotional coz I dont have any spiritual knowledge and the only two books I have read completely till date is "guide to girivalam" and "short story on cow lakshmi"(since I love animals) and nothing else. Much of all I am liking self realization and would continue doing it.

Thank you so much for your heart touching words(just reminded of my father after so many years).

OM ARUNACHALESHWARAAYA NAMAHA!

Dear Vinod

Do not bother much about acquiring much spiritual knowledge . Bhagawan Ramana was available both to the scholarly as well as to the ordinary people . Those who had a pure and innocent mind received his grace and guidance .
So keep up with whatever Sadhana you are doing and surrender the fruits of the same to Bhagawan and he will guide you accordingly .
Thanks for reminding me about the book on Cow Lakshmi , I got the same for my brothers daughter ( who is in USA ) and who loves animals but could not send it last time as they had excess luggage .I just have the book by my table and will read it before I find  a way to send it to her by post or through some one .
BTW I am not old enough to be your fathers age and you can consider me as your elder brother .
Happy that you found inspiration from my post .Take Care .Bye Om Peace .

2277
Yes Krishna.I agree and that is what I have mentioned in my post as well.It is just that I have either not grown to that level of understanding that I come to appreciate those things or that they are not meant for me perhaps.As I said,that these speeches are always well attended and that seems to go along with what you have said as well.
Namaskar.

Mr.Ravi

I had to cut my message short in my last reply as power went off and hence continuing again .
Thanks for mentioning Nochur , I have listened to a few talks of his and also have his CDs and I do agree that he has his own style of talk .
Thanks also for providing the sumukam link , I know about it but good to remind me again .
Recently Sringeri Acharya Sri Bharathi Theertha Swamigal who is observing his Chaturmasya Vrata in Chennai says that he likes to keep his anugraha bashanam to just 30 mts as he feels that if he talks more than 30 mts ,however interesting it may be ,people will either fall asleep or have a head ache . He says in current context people are mentally strained a lot due to information overload ,thanks to technology and hence he does not want to add to that strain and confines his talk to 30 mts .
I have recently started a project with my family priest to record a series of short talks in Tamil  related to Vedas and other values as prescribed in the Vedas and Sashtras ( with reference to also Tamil Scriptures like Thirukural , Nan Naeri , Naal Adiyar etc ) and they will be freely uploaded in the web after some time and people can freely download those talks .I have seen to it that the talks are 20-22 mts duration only as :
1) Most people have less time these day for listening to these type of talks
2) Even for those who listen I found that their attention span is not more than 20 mts and thanks to Sringeri Acharya for providing me that hint .
3) I have given download facility as today almost everyone carried a LapTop ,IPAD ,IPHONE ,IPOD or have a Cell Phone with MP3 Facility and even if they cant listen at home , they can listen to these talks during their spare time while traveling in a Bus , Train , Flight etc . I gave Swami Guruparananda's link as he has given everything for a free download .
Actually Advaita Vedanta is prescribed only for people who are willing to invest full time( so only Sanyasis , serious spiritual aspirants and retired people come in this category )  in it and since most house holders  cant devote much time ,they get a strain listening to it and also since it does not deal with solving issues on a day to day matter ,they find the matter dry and un-inspiring . That is why they tell House holders not to read Vedanta but to read Bhakti literature like Bhagavatham ,Ramayanam etc which are in the form of stories and easy to listen .

More than what to listen I feel people need to learn first the art of listening which is a big art but never taught in any schools or collages nor by parents .I will share more about it later as I am only recently learning about art of listening and its various benefits . Mpre about it later .Bye Om Peace .


2278
Quote
I always get an impression that I am sitting in a 'Class Room' or a 'Workshop' ,being informed,being taught like a Student,Learning something in a Structured way,listening to a 'Lecture'.I do accept that there may be a need for this sort of approach for people in general,and I do find there are capacity crowd coming to listen to these Lectures.They do have a place and serve a need.

Yet,I find myself unable to be interested or involved in this sort of 'cerebral' approach that leaves me totally untouched.
Ravi Sir

Everything has its own place in the world for different individuals and even for the same individuals different things mean differently at various times .
So let us take what we need currently and leave the rest . Internet has given as good choice in this matter and we need to thank the almighty for the same .
More later .Om Peace .

2279
Ravi

You have echoed my own views . I guess that Ramana Stuti Panchakam was composed by Lord Arunachala himself in the guise of Satyamangalam Sri Venkataramana Iyer .
Even a novice can easily chant it .I never get tired chanting it many times .

2280
Arunachala / Re: Arunachala - Sins - Salvation
« on: August 21, 2012, 01:50:24 PM »
I would just like to add my bit here .
It is not just Girivalam , any spiritual thing be it Parayana , Japa , Puja ,Reading a spiritual book , listening to a spiritual talk , visiting a temple ,holy place etc must be done with great interest and focused attention . There is word in Yogic / Buddhist terminology called "Mindfullness" , doing any act with "Mindfullness" will increase the sacredness of the act and you will feel really energized by it .

In the context of Girivalam it is quite difficult to have complete focus for the entire trip as :
1) It takes 3 hrs - 4 hrs to complete it and human attention span is quite short and there is lack of focus in anything for more than 20 mts
2) There is lot of external diversion like crowd , traffic , other people taklking , shops etc .

To take care of Point -1 practice mindful chanting of any of Bhagwan's stotras like Akshara Mana Malai or other Shiva Stotras from Thevaram , Thiruvachagam or Shiva Stutis in Sanskrit . Once you have learnt by heart few of these sacred hymns , keep mentally chanting these while doing Giri Valam .The mind will not go out to chatter if it is kept occupied .If you do not know any hyms keep chanting Om Namah Shivaya or Om Sri Arunachalasweraya Namah very mindfully or just chant the Maha Mantra :Arunachala Siva Arunachala Siva Arunachala Siva Arunachala .
Carry a water bottle with you so that u do not have to break your journey for tea /coffee /water on the way .If you break your journey for some slight refreshments there is a tendency for loose talks .

To take care of Point-2 , better to start Girivalam early morning at 4 a.m or even earlier so to avoid traffic , crowd ,external disturbance .

Note : the above rule is applicable to healthy , young and middle aged individuals . If you are going with Older people or people who have some health problems , you need to relax the rules a bit and be bit patient but try avoid taking un-necessarily .

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