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Messages - atmavichar100

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2221
Thanks for this input . Mugavai Kanna Murugan Adimai is a person well known to me and I will be in touch with him .I lost touch with him for the past 2 years and the last time I interacted with him was on this topic of Thiruvalluvar and Thiruarutpa and he told at that time he asked his brother who was visiting Vadalur to get a copy of Ozhvil Ozhukkam .I will be in touch with him for more details .

Om Peace .

2222
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Re: Thiru Kural
« on: August 22, 2012, 06:35:05 PM »
Many thanks Subramaiam Sir for this prompt action . I will mark the same in my GVK book .

Om Peace .

2223
Quote
VaLLaLAr has however written one essay on the first verse of Ozhivil Odukkam, which is an advaitic work. He says that
Tiru Jnana Sambandhar was his guru in that essay.

Subramaniam Sir
Thanks for ur reply . I do aware of Vallar writing some commentary on Ozhivil Odukkam but it was incomplete . Have u studied it ? What is ur opinion on the same ?

This is what I found about Ozhivil Odukkam in David Godman's blog reply :
Quote
There is no complete translation of Ozhivil Odukkam online, or even in print. A partial translation by Jayaram appeared in The Mountain Path a few years ago. Kanakammal has been giving talks on the work in her home over the last year or so. I have been told that some of these explanations will be published, but I don't know when.

When I went through the ashram archives about twenty-five years ago I found a complete translation by Munagala Venkataramaiah, the complier of Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi. I showed it to Prof. Swaminathan who advised me not to publish it.

After perusing a few of the verses he said, 'Munagala's Tamil scholarship was not good enough to tackle this work.'

It really is a very difficult text. Remember, Munagala was Bhagavan's Tamil interpreter in the hall for many years and had a good grounding in Vedanta and Sanskrit.

We (Venkatasubramanian, Robert Butler and myself) translated three verses which will appear in the notes of our new version of Guru Vachaka Kovai. They are:

2 If the Sadguru did not cast his glance upon him, bringing him to absolute stillness, free of all distress, just as a majestic lion appears in the dream of a rutting elephant, stopping it in its tracks, by the study of what [subjects] may he accomplish the loss of the ego-self?

60 The elephant, which is glorious even in its normal state, becomes yet more glorious when it goes into rut, but a dog which is lowly in its normal state will lose even more of its status when it goes mad. Similarly, if a jnani who is great even in his normal state transgresses prescribed limits of conduct through an excess of ecstasy, his new state will be even more glorious, but the one bound by karma will lose his already low status if he transgresses prescribed limits of conduct.

123 Having exhausted themselves by activities, aspirants come to the Guru seeking jnana. He alone is the true jnana-bestowing Guru who, possessing the wealth of bliss, produces the crop of bliss in them so that they wander without volition and without doing anything. But the Guru who occasions the least rising of their ego through his instructions is both Brahma, he who possesses the ability to create the world, and Yama too, the god of death.

Venkatasubramanian is by far the best and most accurate translator of old Tamil verses that I have worked with. Even he is disinclined to do the work.

2224
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Re: Thiru Kural
« on: August 22, 2012, 05:18:13 PM »
Thanks you Sir . No hurry .
I have started to memorize the verses of Thirukural and it will take me along time to complete and just want to have a list of the Kurals pointed out by Bhagwan / Muruganar and see why he selected those .I give importance to all the Kurals like I give importance to all the Shlokas in Bhagwad Gita but more interested in spending time on those that have been selected by Bhagwan for both these Great Works . My interest is to first memorize the entire 1330 Thirukurals Kurals and 700 verses of Bhagwad Gita and that itself is a Sadhana for me right now .
Keeping adding the list whenever u get time .No hurry and please do not strain urself for this .

2225
To my best knowledge I have never heard Bhagawan talking much about Ramalinga Swamigal or about Thiru Arutpa .Any inputs on the same ?
I found lot of similarities between Ramalinga Swamigal ( Vallalar ) and Bhagawan.
1) Both Never Had a formal Guru
2) Both never wore Saffron and wore white
3) Both addressed God as Father ( Bhagawan : Father Arunachala , Vallalar : Arutperum Jyothi Andavar )
4) Both are considered as Incarnations of Lord Subramanya
5) Both have similar Maha Mantra :
Bhagawan : Arunacaha Siva Arunachala Siva , Arunachala Siva , Arunachala
Vallalar : Arutperun Jyothi , Arutperum Jyoti , Thani Perum Karunai , Arutperum Jyothi
6) Both of them composed great works in Tamil
7) Both did not give importance to any ritualistic worship .

These are my own opinions . I love both Vallalar and Bhagwan and love the songs composed by both of them .

2226
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Re: Thiru Kural
« on: August 22, 2012, 04:54:06 PM »
Subramaniam Sir

Many thanks for ur inputs .
Do you any list of the Thirukural Bhagawan or Mururganar selected ? Sorry to trouble you with this .
Do you think Thirukural couplets have been mentioned in "Guru Vachaka Kovai" , if so then I will go through it .I have the one version of David Godman and Michael James .
Om Peace .

2227
Humour / Re: Attend to the work for which you have come!
« on: August 22, 2012, 12:49:51 PM »

Quote
Attend to the work for which you have come!

Subramaniam Sir ,

The above statement of Bhagwan coupled with the statement "Mind your business" is the most powerful Mantra I have ever experienced .
Whenever I find myself being overtly Critical or Judgmental of others I remind myself of this Maha Mantra : "Mind Your Business , Attend to what you have come " .
I understood this Maha Mantra in the Context of Bhagawan advising others who were Critical of the way the Ashram was being run by his brother Chinnaswamy and that Bhagwan was just keeping quiet . I got it from the book "Living by the Words of Bhagawan ": by David Godman
No doubt opinions do keep coming to my mind about how others should be , why people behave the way they are etc etc , but I see to it that those opinions rise and fall naturally without myself allowing it to dominate too much and spoil my mental peace .

2228
General Discussion / Re: Non Commericial: Rudram in Ghana Pata form
« on: August 22, 2012, 12:30:28 PM »
Thanks for the info ,I have basic Sri Rudram and Taitriya Upansiahd Chant and listen to the same and recently got Sri Rudra Trisathi from Ramana Ashram through a friend of mine .I am yet to listen to it fully .I do not know how Rudra Trisathi is different from Sri Rudram .
Will share more about it , once I listen to the same .
I sometimes buy Vedic CDs from various sources ,just to enjoy the diversity of listening to the same chants sung by different people plus it also helps support those publishing the CDs .

2229
General Discussion / Re: Mantras to invoke a meditative mood
« on: August 22, 2012, 12:26:05 PM »
Mantras do work if you get it from a right Guru and you have also made eligible to receive the same .
In the absence of such a situation best is to "take few conscious breaths i.e consciously inhale ,exhale for 3 times and then observe your natural breathing for a few mts " .This will help relax you if not put you in a really meditative mood .

2230
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Re: Thiru Kural
« on: August 22, 2012, 10:47:13 AM »
Ravi

Thanks again for the inputs , just now went to the TGN Foundation website and market the same . Thanks for the info regarding Sri TGN Talks . As such for the past few years I avoid public talks or places where there is crowd , ir-respective of who the speaker is . Only recently I visited Sri Sringeri Barathi Teertha Swamigal ,Sri Swami Omkarananda more as a visit of respect and got some of their audio talks .
I prefer to listen to the talks in silence at my own home and reflect on the same . Only now I am getting active in a spiritual forum after a long gap and I am happy with all the inputs I am getting here .
If I have any doubts regarding Thirukural etc I will surely seek your explanation and in the meanwhile will try to get the books , audio of Sri TGN .
Om Peace .

2231
Subramaniam Sir

I am surprised by the fact that Adi Shankara had a duel with Saivites . I heard many years back in one of TV Venkataraman's talks on Thirumanthiram that Adi Shankara never had any sort of debate with any Saiva Siddhanta scholars and he was neither for it nor against it .
However that incident at Thiruvadai Maradur , with Mahalinga Swamy I am aware of but I did not know that the background to it was this duel between Shankara and Saiva Siddhanthas .

2232
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Re: Thiru Kural
« on: August 22, 2012, 09:56:29 AM »
Quote
However I thought that you may be interested in TirukkuraL per se and am sharing this in the hope it will be of some use.
For your information TG Narayanasamy is a  Jivanmukta ;he lives in chennai.He has stopped giving talks some years back,and I have referred to his talks on Tirukkural for what it is.
Namaskar.

Ravi

It is not just Thirukural but also Thiruvachagam , Thayumanavar songs , Theverams etc , I am interested in learning completely but since they are all quite serious literature ,and since my background in Classical Tamil is quite weak I am interested in first getting a starting point in the same and so starting with what Bhagawan Ramana recommended for all these texts . That is why I am opening all the Old threads regarding these topics and being an Arunachala - Ramana forum I do not want to bring in other topics that will be distracting to the main objectives of this forum .

I am happy with your inputs and also thank you for pointing out Shri T.G.Narayana Swamy . I have never heard of him and would like to know if he has published any books related to Thirukural or given talks in the same . If he has published any material , I would like to know from where I can get the same .

I appreciate your efforts for your prompt and detailed response in this thread as well as in the other threads  . I have just started to learn Thirukuarl verses and have completed the first 5 Chapters .I am not reading any meaning of the verses but just memorizing the verses first . I do not want to rush learning more but to just keep digesting what little I have learnt and I believe that verses of Kural are like Maha Vakyas that you can always use to contemplate on and reflect it in your own life .In that manner only I wanted to first see what Bhagwan has selected so that I can start with it .

I am saving your pages in my computer for my own self reflection and will forward it to my brother in USA who loves Thirukural a lot and has spent more than 10-12 years reading and reflecting on the same .
Continue your good work .
Om Peace .

2233
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Re: Thiru Kural
« on: August 22, 2012, 09:07:23 AM »
Dear Ravi

Thanks for ur detailed inputs on Thirukural .
I am not an expert in Thirukural or Tamil to comment on whose commentary on Thirukural is the best . Like Bhagavad Gita has lots of commentaries ( with each contradicting one another ) , same with Thirukural Kural and still people bringing out new versions of the same .
I have one relative who belongs to a Mystical Cult in Tamil Nadu and he uses the harshest words on "all " the current / past people giving talks on Thirukural or writing books on the same .He feels that the true meaning of it can be got only from a self realized Guru and that cannot be put in print or talk . So this is the Mystical perspective .
A relative of mine who is a great Historian says that Thirukural was never written by one person and it was written by a group of people like how they draft the constitution and might be Thiruvalluvar had headed that group , like we have Dr.B.R.Ambedkar who headed the constitution assembly and is called the Father of our Constitution and he says Thiruvalluvar was Democratic enough to keep all schools of thought in it so we have Hindus , Christians , Jains , Shaivities , Vaishnavites etc saying it reflects their thought .So this is the Historical Perspective .
People like Periyar, Karunanidhi  etc have given a Rational perspective of Thirukural .
Swami Omkarananda is given a Vedic Perspective of the same .
There will be many more perspective of Thirukural which I am not aware off and I feel all have a right to their respective  opinion and each individual chooses those version he /she is comfortable with
I am interested here in what was Bhagwan's Opinion on Thirukural .I did read about in a book where he did talk about Thiruvalluvar and Auviyar and I will find that book's name and page and post it here when I find it .
I once asked another person who is a serious Devotee of Bhagawan Ramana and his works about certain things missing in Bhagawan's talks or advice and Thirukuaral did come as one of such missing things . He said when Bhagwan kept silent over certain things it did not mean that he was not approving the same , it basically meant some people use his approval/ lack of approval  to ask mischievous questions and finally create a controversy eg. like some people asked him about Saint Ramakrishna Paramahamsa's fish eating habits and Bhagawan kept silent . If he says it is wrong people will say Bhagwan Criticized Saint Ramakrishna and if he says it is right then  everyone will say Bhagwan approves of eating fish .
So anyway Bhagawan is not with us right now and neither is Thiruvalluvar with us right now to approve what is right .
I am just seeking which are the Kural if at all Bhagwan has mentioned either as advice or for people to contemplate on .Like the way he selected 42 essential verses of Bhagavad Gita , I am interested whether Bhagawan did any such compilation on Thirukural ?
Anyway thanks for ur details reference points and I will keep it in my reading list for Kural .

2234
Ravi

Thanks for your info and I will go through the same .

Om Peace .

2235
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Re: Thiru Kural
« on: August 21, 2012, 09:56:12 PM »
Subramaniam Sir

Any inputs you have regarding Bhagwan's opinion on Thirukural .
Some say Bhagawan never recommended it as it did not talk about Moksa and has "Kamathu Paal" i.e on Love & Kama , other said Bhagwan did refer to certain selected portions from "Arathu Paal " only i.e related to  Dharma .

I found in one publication Bhagwan referring to Ayuvviar saying that Valluvar's 1330 verses were condensed by 1 verse of Ayuvviar .

In an Old TV Show that came in DD in early 90s about U Ve Swaminatha Iyer , there is a conversation about U Ve Swaminatha Iyer and Bhagwan and Bhagwan quotes a verse from Thirukural  regarding being detached i.e "Pattr attru" and U Ve Swamintahan says he can be free of any desire except the desire for Tamil and Bhagwan said that it is a valid desire and he can keep it .

Can u share anything about Bhagawan and Thirukural?

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