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Messages - atmavichar100

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The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: jiddu krishnamurthy
« on: August 26, 2012, 07:50:25 PM »
JK did not teach any specific technique but asked us to  enquire the motives behind why we do anything be it secular , spiritual etc .
For eg. is some one says I want to do some meditation ,spiritual sadhana , normally people will tell them to do Japa , read spiritual books , worship god etc . When you come to JK he will ask first "why do you want to do Meditation ?"  .
You may give any answer like say peace of mind etc and next he will ask you "Why you lost your peace of mind " and so on it goes backward .There is no right or wrong answer in this . You must investigate for yourself what is "true" for you . This sort of inner -investigation is quite difficult for most people as people want ready made replies and they will try it for a few days and again complain that is it is not working for them and they go to another teacher , another Guru , another technique etc .
Here J.Krishnamurti talks about self investigation in his own words .
Self Investigation is Hard Work - J.Krishnamurti
But, you see, that (i.e  self investigation ) is tremendously arduous; it is hard work, and you do not like hard work. You prefer an easy, indolent existence—earning a livelihood, accepting what comes, and just drifting along through life. Or, if you don’t do that, you practise some system, some form of compulsion, discipline. You get up every morning at 4 o’clock to meditate—by which you mean forcing yourself to concentrate, compelling your mind to conform to a particular pattern. You drill yourself incessantly, day after day, and that you consider hard work. But that, it seems to me, is a most childish way of working. It is not the work of a mature mind. By hard work I mean something totally different. It is hard work to examine every thought and feeling, every belief, without bringing in your own prejudices, without shielding yourself behind an idea, behind a conclusion, an explanation. It requires hard, clear thinking—which is real work. And most of us do not want to tackle that kind of work. We would rather accept a senseless belief, belong to an organized religion, go to the temple, the church, or the mosque, repeat some words and get a little sensation; and with these things we are satisfied.               
  - J. Krishnamurti

I have found JK's technique as mentioned above to be quite useful in helping me develop lot of clarity as it encourages me "to question " all my motives both outward as well as hidden inner motives . This sounds quite simple but quite difficult as we our  mind always refuses to investigate our own inner motives which are quite unpleasant .Poet Kannadasan written a song for a Tamil Movie "A person has nine things in his mind and has 80 things buried  inside his mind "

I am not comparing Bhagwan's Ramana's Vichara method and JK's method .I follow the investigative method of JK as given above and find it very useful and that is the vichara I use currently . Whether it leads to enlightenment /moksha /self realization etc I do not know but I have found lot of mental clarity in the same .It has helped me a lot in "decluttering" my mind and this "decluttering " is an ongoing process . The essence ( not the quote above which is from a different source ) of JK's method of vichara I found it in the book J.Krishnamurti: As I knew Him by Susunaga Weeraperuma when I visited Rishikesh in October 2010 for my own spiritual break and I consider it the most blissful moment in my life . After this insight , I was seeing JK's teachings from a different light .
JK had made a great impact on me spiritually but as I said I do not want to compare JK , Ramana ,Swami Sivananda etc . Each teacher had their own pointers for the people who came to them .I found the above pointer of JK quite valid for me and using it and find it effective .

Dear atmavichar100,

Yes. There is no English translation of Ozhivil Odukkam. It is a tough Tamizh Vedantic work. Some articles have appeared in
Mountain Path issues giving reference to the book, by one J. Jayaraman.  For Tamizh prose translation, there are two books:

1. One published by Mullai Nilayam, Chennai, where you get Ramalingam Swamigal's initial prose translation of the verse 1.
It starts as VaLLal  Gururayan vAdhu venRa Sambandhan......The remaining translation has been done by Tiruporur
Chidambara Swamigal.

2. The second, quite recent publication, by one Mugavai Kanna Murugan Adimai, of Sri Ramana Satsangh, Chennai.
This is a detailed book which gives elaborate commentary.

Arunachala Siva.   

Dear Subramaniam Sir

Thanks for ur input about Mugavai Kanna Murugam Adimai , I got in touch with him day before yesterday and in fact it was a sort of reconnection for me  with him after a gap of 2-3 years .We had some wonderful heart to heart sharing .
Of course Ozhuvil Odukkam is too complicated a text for me right now .I have just started on with "Ellam Onre"  and following the same steps that Bhagwan gave Annamalai Swami to masteer it i.e write few verses of it daily and read it daily without fail . I will try that method out .
So once again thanks for ur input that helped me get in touch with Sri Murugan Adimai .
Om Peace .

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Re: Thiru Kural
« on: August 23, 2012, 11:17:04 AM »

Thanks for your inputs .Will go through the same .
Om Peace .

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Re: Thiru Kural
« on: August 22, 2012, 10:59:27 PM »
Thanks again Subramaniam Sir . I have Padamalai of David Godman with me and will use it first .

Om Peace .

Thanks for this input . Mugavai Kanna Murugan Adimai is a person well known to me and I will be in touch with him .I lost touch with him for the past 2 years and the last time I interacted with him was on this topic of Thiruvalluvar and Thiruarutpa and he told at that time he asked his brother who was visiting Vadalur to get a copy of Ozhvil Ozhukkam .I will be in touch with him for more details .

Om Peace .

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Re: Thiru Kural
« on: August 22, 2012, 06:35:05 PM »
Many thanks Subramaiam Sir for this prompt action . I will mark the same in my GVK book .

Om Peace .

VaLLaLAr has however written one essay on the first verse of Ozhivil Odukkam, which is an advaitic work. He says that
Tiru Jnana Sambandhar was his guru in that essay.

Subramaniam Sir
Thanks for ur reply . I do aware of Vallar writing some commentary on Ozhivil Odukkam but it was incomplete . Have u studied it ? What is ur opinion on the same ?

This is what I found about Ozhivil Odukkam in David Godman's blog reply :
There is no complete translation of Ozhivil Odukkam online, or even in print. A partial translation by Jayaram appeared in The Mountain Path a few years ago. Kanakammal has been giving talks on the work in her home over the last year or so. I have been told that some of these explanations will be published, but I don't know when.

When I went through the ashram archives about twenty-five years ago I found a complete translation by Munagala Venkataramaiah, the complier of Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi. I showed it to Prof. Swaminathan who advised me not to publish it.

After perusing a few of the verses he said, 'Munagala's Tamil scholarship was not good enough to tackle this work.'

It really is a very difficult text. Remember, Munagala was Bhagavan's Tamil interpreter in the hall for many years and had a good grounding in Vedanta and Sanskrit.

We (Venkatasubramanian, Robert Butler and myself) translated three verses which will appear in the notes of our new version of Guru Vachaka Kovai. They are:

2 If the Sadguru did not cast his glance upon him, bringing him to absolute stillness, free of all distress, just as a majestic lion appears in the dream of a rutting elephant, stopping it in its tracks, by the study of what [subjects] may he accomplish the loss of the ego-self?

60 The elephant, which is glorious even in its normal state, becomes yet more glorious when it goes into rut, but a dog which is lowly in its normal state will lose even more of its status when it goes mad. Similarly, if a jnani who is great even in his normal state transgresses prescribed limits of conduct through an excess of ecstasy, his new state will be even more glorious, but the one bound by karma will lose his already low status if he transgresses prescribed limits of conduct.

123 Having exhausted themselves by activities, aspirants come to the Guru seeking jnana. He alone is the true jnana-bestowing Guru who, possessing the wealth of bliss, produces the crop of bliss in them so that they wander without volition and without doing anything. But the Guru who occasions the least rising of their ego through his instructions is both Brahma, he who possesses the ability to create the world, and Yama too, the god of death.

Venkatasubramanian is by far the best and most accurate translator of old Tamil verses that I have worked with. Even he is disinclined to do the work.

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Re: Thiru Kural
« on: August 22, 2012, 05:18:13 PM »
Thanks you Sir . No hurry .
I have started to memorize the verses of Thirukural and it will take me along time to complete and just want to have a list of the Kurals pointed out by Bhagwan / Muruganar and see why he selected those .I give importance to all the Kurals like I give importance to all the Shlokas in Bhagwad Gita but more interested in spending time on those that have been selected by Bhagwan for both these Great Works . My interest is to first memorize the entire 1330 Thirukurals Kurals and 700 verses of Bhagwad Gita and that itself is a Sadhana for me right now .
Keeping adding the list whenever u get time .No hurry and please do not strain urself for this .

To my best knowledge I have never heard Bhagawan talking much about Ramalinga Swamigal or about Thiru Arutpa .Any inputs on the same ?
I found lot of similarities between Ramalinga Swamigal ( Vallalar ) and Bhagawan.
1) Both Never Had a formal Guru
2) Both never wore Saffron and wore white
3) Both addressed God as Father ( Bhagawan : Father Arunachala , Vallalar : Arutperum Jyothi Andavar )
4) Both are considered as Incarnations of Lord Subramanya
5) Both have similar Maha Mantra :
Bhagawan : Arunacaha Siva Arunachala Siva , Arunachala Siva , Arunachala
Vallalar : Arutperun Jyothi , Arutperum Jyoti , Thani Perum Karunai , Arutperum Jyothi
6) Both of them composed great works in Tamil
7) Both did not give importance to any ritualistic worship .

These are my own opinions . I love both Vallalar and Bhagwan and love the songs composed by both of them .

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Re: Thiru Kural
« on: August 22, 2012, 04:54:06 PM »
Subramaniam Sir

Many thanks for ur inputs .
Do you any list of the Thirukural Bhagawan or Mururganar selected ? Sorry to trouble you with this .
Do you think Thirukural couplets have been mentioned in "Guru Vachaka Kovai" , if so then I will go through it .I have the one version of David Godman and Michael James .
Om Peace .

Humour / Re: Attend to the work for which you have come!
« on: August 22, 2012, 12:49:51 PM »

Attend to the work for which you have come!

Subramaniam Sir ,

The above statement of Bhagwan coupled with the statement "Mind your business" is the most powerful Mantra I have ever experienced .
Whenever I find myself being overtly Critical or Judgmental of others I remind myself of this Maha Mantra : "Mind Your Business , Attend to what you have come " .
I understood this Maha Mantra in the Context of Bhagawan advising others who were Critical of the way the Ashram was being run by his brother Chinnaswamy and that Bhagwan was just keeping quiet . I got it from the book "Living by the Words of Bhagawan ": by David Godman
No doubt opinions do keep coming to my mind about how others should be , why people behave the way they are etc etc , but I see to it that those opinions rise and fall naturally without myself allowing it to dominate too much and spoil my mental peace .

General Discussion / Re: Non Commericial: Rudram in Ghana Pata form
« on: August 22, 2012, 12:30:28 PM »
Thanks for the info ,I have basic Sri Rudram and Taitriya Upansiahd Chant and listen to the same and recently got Sri Rudra Trisathi from Ramana Ashram through a friend of mine .I am yet to listen to it fully .I do not know how Rudra Trisathi is different from Sri Rudram .
Will share more about it , once I listen to the same .
I sometimes buy Vedic CDs from various sources ,just to enjoy the diversity of listening to the same chants sung by different people plus it also helps support those publishing the CDs .

General Discussion / Re: Mantras to invoke a meditative mood
« on: August 22, 2012, 12:26:05 PM »
Mantras do work if you get it from a right Guru and you have also made eligible to receive the same .
In the absence of such a situation best is to "take few conscious breaths i.e consciously inhale ,exhale for 3 times and then observe your natural breathing for a few mts " .This will help relax you if not put you in a really meditative mood .

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Re: Thiru Kural
« on: August 22, 2012, 10:47:13 AM »

Thanks again for the inputs , just now went to the TGN Foundation website and market the same . Thanks for the info regarding Sri TGN Talks . As such for the past few years I avoid public talks or places where there is crowd , ir-respective of who the speaker is . Only recently I visited Sri Sringeri Barathi Teertha Swamigal ,Sri Swami Omkarananda more as a visit of respect and got some of their audio talks .
I prefer to listen to the talks in silence at my own home and reflect on the same . Only now I am getting active in a spiritual forum after a long gap and I am happy with all the inputs I am getting here .
If I have any doubts regarding Thirukural etc I will surely seek your explanation and in the meanwhile will try to get the books , audio of Sri TGN .
Om Peace .

Subramaniam Sir

I am surprised by the fact that Adi Shankara had a duel with Saivites . I heard many years back in one of TV Venkataraman's talks on Thirumanthiram that Adi Shankara never had any sort of debate with any Saiva Siddhanta scholars and he was neither for it nor against it .
However that incident at Thiruvadai Maradur , with Mahalinga Swamy I am aware of but I did not know that the background to it was this duel between Shankara and Saiva Siddhanthas .

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