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Messages - atmavichar100

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Swami: Such a man will only say that the source from which he came comes are his parents.

Bhagavan: He cannot be such an ignoramus, as you started by saying, he was a Sadhaka in this line already.


General topics / Re: Quotes from Shankaracharya's
« on: December 05, 2012, 10:46:00 AM »
Ishwara knows what is best for everyone. If He is pleased there is nothing else to be accomplished by a devotee. - Sri Sri Bharati Tirtha Mahaswamigal

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Sadhana Tips
« on: December 03, 2012, 06:16:44 PM »
Thanks for the information Sri Atmavichar,

There are 2 known english books, one by By A. Narasimha Bhatt is said to be the best available book in english, but unfortunately has been out of publication or unavailable for few years now. The other is Dim Tims Muses Translation Explanation Commentry of Dvgs Mankuthimmana Kagga by Sampath, Ra Shi which is also slowly running out of stock lately, but is good enough to assimilate the essence. This is the book that i have, apart one book in kannada.

Meanwhile, you can refer these sites, they are slowly updating the verses day by day

Thanks Nagarj for the link , I went through some links but they had only the Kannada Version . It is good to have the English Translation .

Om Peace .

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Sadhana Tips
« on: December 03, 2012, 06:03:38 PM »
Sri Atmavichar,

It is a wonderful news to me that Kagga has been rendered in tamil and by your far relative is great news. I would be much obliged if you can let me know the publications, I would be interested in purchasing as well, as there are a few more persons I know of here, who would be very much interested as well.

Thank you.


Her name is Radha Ganesan , and this seems to be self published work .It was released in 2007 and I am not in direct contact with them to know more about the details of the same .If I get it ,I will let you know .This work in Tamil was not done for a commercial motive and hence I doubt they have given wide publicity to the same .
As of now this is the information with  me:
Author : Radha Ganesan
Published by : Self Published
If I get any further info ,I will let u know .

BTW if you have any english translation of the same , kindly let  me know .

Om Peace

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Sadhana Tips
« on: December 03, 2012, 05:47:45 PM »
Nagaraj, Thanks for this pointer from Sri DV Gundappa .I have not heard about him but only after seeing some posts of yours I came to know of him and just now went through some info about him in wikipedia and saw that he has been awarded Sahitya Academy Award for his exposition on Srimad Bhagwad Gita . Later it came to be known that a far relative in my family has rendered DVG's  classic Mankuthimmana Kagga,in Tamil .

The quote below is really a  wonderful pointer and has given in essence the difference between knowing something in theory and really internalizing it in one's life .

Everybody is a Saint, Everybody a Preacher,
Till, Life's tests comes and stands in front,
Inner secrets of nature (vasanas) then rise from the bottom
God is the only refuge then - Mankuthimma

Thanks once again for pointing out Sri DVG .

Om Peace .

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Sadhana Tips
« on: December 03, 2012, 10:03:59 AM »
"Those endowed with sattva perform their spiritual practices secretly.”
∼ Ramakrishna

Padamalai : Qualifications for maturity (p.256)

* When the mind, through the quality of extreme purity, merges in the Heart, it will attain perfection as peace.

* If the mind that has become one-pointed, like the tip of darba-grass, merges with the Heart, the experience of pure Being, seemingly impossible to attain, will be very easily discovered.

* Taking a thick fat crowbar (as a needle), it is not possible to stitch together extremely delicate silk cloth using very fine thread

The Needle /Crowbar examples has the following explanation  I found on the net :
The average intellect is gross when compared with a truly silent mind; the comparison is very apt. Without becoming very subtle it is impossible to sink into the heart which is total silence, non-dual wholeness...

In an answer to a question by long resident attendant, Sri Bhagavan said:

Every body complains of the restlessness of mind. Let the mind be found out and then they will know. True when a sits down to meditate
thoughts rush up by dozens. The mind is a bundle of thoughts The attempt to push through the barrage of thoughts, is unsuccessful.
It can be done by any means abide in the Self it is good. For those who are unable to do so, chanting or meditation is prescribed.

Arunachala Siva.

Subramaniam Sir

I found Chanting of Bhawgwan's Arunachala Akshara Mana Malai to be very effective and potent as as well as the Maha Mantra "Arunachala Siva Arunachala Siva "

Om Peace .

There are many cases in the king-beggar analogy, which brings out many finer points.

Case 1: The king is seen as a beggar:
- The king goes to a foreign country and people mistake him as a beggar. However the king knows that he is a king and is not bothered how the people see him.

- In terms of rope and snake, little boys decorate a rope as a snake (maybe to scare others), but a person who knows it as a rope is not bothered about it.

- The king here is not the absolute controller of the situations. He has no control over how the people will perceive him in the foreign country. The person who sees the decorated rope has no control over how the little boys will decorate the rope. Even though, the king knows himself as a king, there exist others who thinks themselves as beggars.

- In this case the king has no thoughts since he does not participate in the situations. The person does not participate in the game of little boys and hence has no thoughts.

Case 2: The king plays the role of a beggar for duty:
- The king plays the role of a beggar to find out the situation in his kingdom.

- The person participates in the rope-snake game with the little boys to teach the little boys.

- The king again is not the absolute controller. He does not control external situations and works within the scheme of duty.

- In this case, the king and the person has thoughts of duty.

Case 3: The king plays the role of beggar for advantage:
- The king has to present himself as a beggar to other people to get some advantage from them.

- The person has to show the little boys his fear to get some advantage from them.

- The king again is not the absolute controller.

- In this case there are either thoughts of some bondage, or it is a trivial common sense situation.

Case 4: The king plays the role of a beggar out of joy of his kingly nature:
- The king is overjoyed with his kingly nature and plays the role of a beggar to enjoy his kingly nature. Here we are entering the territory of leela.

- The person out of joy of knowing the rope participates in the game with the little boys.

- The king again is not the absolute controller.

- In this case there are self-created thoughts. These thoughts does not bind the king but are an expression of the knowledge and freedom. The king has a sense of non-duality knowing that there is a kingly nature (which he is), and he also has a sense of duality seeing the relative world.

Case 5: The king plays the role of a beggar out of joy of seeing kingly nature everywhere:
- The king is overjoyed seeing the kingly nature in everything. He plays different roles to enjoy the kingly nature and expresses the joy of the kingly nature in the relative world.

As far as I have understood Sri Ramakrishna's sayings, Sri Ramakrishna called this case as vijnana. The vijnani performs leela to milk the joy of Brahman seeing the same divine essence everywhere. He assumes different roles and plays with different roles.

- The vijnani has thoughts, thoughts of leela, which are self-created. Standing on non-duality he puts on the garb of duality to enjoy Brahman and share its joy in the world of duality.

- However, in this case also the king may not have absolute control over everything.
He may not have any control over how the relative world originate, how beggars even though kings still thinks themselves as beggars.

- The entity which has absolute control over everything, which is in everything, which is everything, Sri Ramakrishna calls as Shakti or Divine Mother (whose passive state is Brahman).

Case 6: The king is the absolute controller (Shakti or Divine Mother) and plays all roles:
- The difference between absolute controller and non-absolute controller can be described with the wave-ocean analogy:
-- A non-absolute controller king even as wave knows himself as the ocean (the king). He however does not control other waves in the ocean nor has he the power to create waves in the ocean. An absolute controller even as a wave can control all the other waves and is the creator of all the waves.
--- An absolute controller can create maya which is a perfect art in the following sense:
When we try to play chess alone, there arises the difficulty that one side knows the thoughts of the other side. So here unity is preventing the joy of the game. Maya is such a perfect art that unity does not prevent joy in the game. Here the art of partitioning is perfect.
-- A non-absolute controller wave does not graduate and become an absolute controller wave. His only route is to merge in the ocean and stay as the ocean awareness. An absolute-controller wave is of a different nature.

- The Divine Mother can remain as the ocean or emerge as an absolute-controller wave incarnation.

- The Divine Mother creates stages for leela, the kings, subjects and everything from Her own nature and Herself plays through the creation. She creates joys, sorrows and many other moods.

- Obviously Divine Mother is a jnani. Whether a jnani is Divine Mother playing a role with full knowledge of Her nature, it is difficult to say.

- Obviously Divine Mother has thoughts, created by her. She not only creates thoughts for one role, but for all roles wherever applicable. However, She is also thoughtless, as Brahman. She is depicted as dancing on the bosom of Shiva. Shiva is also shown as Ardha-Narishwara.

- A beggar does not know himeself as king because of Her maya.
A beggar knows himself as a king because of her grace.
Expressing in a more non-dualistic way, a beggar knows himself as king when the Divine Mother graduates her beggar's role to king's role.

In summary:
- A king will not have thoughts if he is not participating in any play (e.g. case 1). The king will have thoughts if he is participating in a role play.

- A king who is not an absolute-controller wave stays in ocean awareness. He is not the creator of waves. The king who is an absolute-controller creates and controls all the waves.
(The absolute-controller wave concept is not accepted in all philosophies. Here it is stated to bring out different cases of the king-beggar analogy)

These inferences are based on king-beggar example and sayings of Sri Ramakrishna.

So many Cases for a King-Beggar , Snake-Rope analogy  :)

Another visitor, who said that he was from Sri Aurobindo’s Ashram, asked Bhagavan: “But we see pain in the world. A man is hungry. It is a physical reality. It is very real to him. Are we to call it a dream and remain unmoved by his pain?”

From the point of view of jnana or the reality, the pain you speak of is certainly a dream, as is the world of which the pain is an infinitesimal part. In the dream also you yourself feel hunger. You see others suffering hunger. You feed yourself and, moved by pity, feed the others that you find suffering from hunger. So long as the dream lasted, all those pains were quite as real as you now think the pain you see in the world to be. It was only when you woke up that you discovered that the pain in the dream was unreal. You might have eaten to the full and gone to sleep. You dream that you work hard and long in the hot sun all day, are tired and hungry and want to eat a lot. Then you get up and find your stomach is full and you have not stirred out of your bed. But all this is not to say that while you are in the dream you can act as if the pain you feel there is not real. The hunger in the dream has to be assuaged by the food in the dream. The fellow beings you found in the dream so hungry had to be provided with food in that dream. You can never mix up the two states, the dream and the waking state. Till you reach the state of jnana and thus wake out of this maya, you must do social service by relieving suffering whenever you see it. But even then you must do it, as we are told, without ahamkara, i.e., without the sense “I am the doer,” but feeling, “I am the Lord’s tool.” Similarly one must not be conceited, “I am helping a man below me. He needs help. I am in a position to help. I am superior and he inferior.” But you must help the man as a means of worshipping God in that man. All such service too is for the Self, not for anybody else.You are not helping anybody else, but only yourself.

Mr. T.P. Ramachandra Aiyar said in this connection, “There is the classic example of Abraham Lincoln, who helped a pig to get out of a ditch and in the process had himself and his clothes dirtied. When questioned why he took so much trouble, he replied, ‘I did it to put an end not so much to the pig’s trouble, as to my own pain in seeing the poor thing struggle to get out of the ditch’.”

General Discussion / Re: Karthigai Deepam today - Its Significance
« on: November 27, 2012, 05:41:30 PM »
Dear Nagaraj and others,

Mahadeepam to see which gods and goddesses were waiting in heavens was seen by my mortal eyes, at 5.57 PM this evening
in Jaya TV and also the Webcam of Graham Body. In fact, the close up view of the Hill showed the Mahadeepam along with Full
Moon nicely.

Arunachala Siva.

Yes Subramaniam Sir ,I watched it in Pothigai TV . Today is also a day of celebration .Harikesa Nallur Venkataraman said in Pothai TV during the live telecast that when there is lot of celebration in the house neighbors  ask "what is new happening in this house : is it Kalyanam ( Marriage ) or Karthigai "? So Karthigai is celebrated like a Kalyanam i.e like a Marriage .
Fortunately in Sanathana Dharma we have lot of festivals to get rejuvenated and start fresh and Karthigai is one such festival and after coming in contact with Bhagwan Ramana and Arunachala we have a different approach to looking at this festival .

Om Peace .

live relay of Karthigai Deepam Celebrations at Sri Ramanasramam available in our website. Kindly visit the link

Date: 27.11.2012

Timings: 4.30 PM (IST) to 6.30 PM (IST)

General Discussion / Re: Karthigai Deepam today - Its Significance
« on: November 27, 2012, 03:57:15 PM »
live relay of Karthigai Deepam Celebrations at Sri Ramanasramam available in our website. Kindly visit the link

Date: 27.11.2012

4.30 PM (IST) to 6.30 PM (IST)

General Discussion / Re: Karthigai Deepam today - Its Significance
« on: November 27, 2012, 12:56:38 PM »
Kartigai Deepam by Swami Sivananda

ON THE full moon day of the month of Kartigai (November-December) which falls on the ascension of the Kritigai star, the Hindus celebrate the Kartigai Deepam. It is on this day that the huge beacon is lit on the holy hill Arunachala, in South India.

Once Lord Shiva assumed the form of a hill at Tiruvannamalai in South India. Here He quelled the pride of Brahma and Vishnu who were quarelling as to their relative greatness. One day, when Lord Shiva was in meditation, Parvati left Him and went to the hill of Arunachala. There She performed penance. She was the guest of the sage Gautama. It was during Her penance here that Mahishasura was killed by Durga hidden by Parvati. Parvati saw Shiva as Arunachalesvara. She was taken back by the Lord to His side, and made His Ardhangini once more, that is, She occupied half of the body of the Lord.

Arunachalesvara is Tejo Lingam. Arunachala or the Tiruvannamalai Hill is the place that represents the fire element. (The five elements are represented by five holy places in India.)

When the light on the top of the Tiruvannamalai Hill is unveiled on the Kartigai Deepam day, people see the big light and worship it. They recite again and again in a loud voice “Harohara”. The esoteric meaning is that he who sees the light of lights that is burning eternally in the chambers of his heart through constant meditation attains immortality. The light on the Arunachala brings the message to you that the Self or Lord Shiva is self-effulgent, He is the light of lights.

On the Kartigai Deepam day in South India, people make bonfires in front of temples in the evening. It is said that Lord Shiva burnt the chariots of several demons who were torturing sages and celestials. This bonfire symbolises this legend.

People place rows of earthen lamps in front of their houses on the evening of Kartigai Deepam and worship the Lord. They also light a variety of fireworks.

Annihilate the three impurities, namely, egoism, selfish action and delusion. Burn the mind, senses and the desires in the fire of knowledge of the Self or Shiva-Jnanam. Attain full illumination and behold the light of lights, which illumines the mind, intellect, sun, moon, stars, lightning and the fire. This is real Kartigai Deepam.
May the light of lights illumine you all! May Lord Shiva bless you with more light! May you merge in this supreme light and attain the eternal abode of bliss and immortality!

(pgs. 42-44, Hindu Fasts and Festivals by Swami Sivananda )

General Discussion / Re: Karthigai Deepam today - Its Significance
« on: November 27, 2012, 12:51:54 PM »
Karthigai Deepam at house ( from the above source )

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