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Messages - atmavichar100

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Thanks for sharing the letter of Annamalai Swamy .It is a great blessing that you had close contact with him in the early 80s itself much before he became sort of popular to the outside world after David Godman's book "Living by the words of Bhagwan" .
I still cherish that book and I never get bored reading it again and again .

Om Peace .

Dear Atmavichar100,

Spiritual Books can be studied to a limited extent covering bhakti and jnana. There is no need to read
books unlimitedly. If one is young, one can read novels and non fiction to some extent as for a change. Otherwise one
need not read many many spiritual books.
It is of no use. Sri Bhagavan says in Who am I? : If all books speak only about
mano nigraha, one need not read books to a large extent.

Arunachala Siva.

Subramaniam Sir

I was here referring to General book reading and not for spiritual awakening . The book that I was referring to "How to read a book" ,teaches reading book as an art and science which we were never at all taught .We were taught just to join the words and read but never how to get involved in a book and draw the wisdom of the same . This need not be applied to fiction / story books but to Other books written by authors who are expert in the field of Literature ,Science , History , Politics ,Religion ,Philosophy etc . They have nothing to do with Atma Vichara and I am aware of that and I was talking with respect to Secular Knowledge enrichment .

Coming to Atma Vichara :

I feel for a  mature seeker , nothing much is required . Even in the traditional Advaita Path ,I remember one Traditional Teacher of Classical Advaita Saying that though traditionally one needs to study Bhagavad Gita , 10 Upanishads and Brahma Sutra , yet for a mature seeker a simple small Upanishad like Keno Upansihad is enough to give clarity and he can go away after getting his answer from that Upansihad and he need not spend time reading all the other texts .
My take is simple :It does not matter what you read or what you do not read - have you got the answer that you are searching for ? Has it given you clarity or are you still continuing to search for answers ? I feel each Individual must answer this for himself .

Om Peace

General Discussion / Re: Nochur Venkatraman
« on: November 20, 2012, 08:50:52 PM »
Here is a link to Nochur's talks for downloading .

I have downloaded Nochur's Arunachala Akshara Mana Malai and listening to them now .

Om Peace .

I have a friend who was a Bhagavan devotee for seventeen years. For the whole of that period the only book on Bhagavan she ever read was Who am I? That pamphlet, along with a photo of Bhagavan, was, she said, all she needed.

According to TMP Mahadevan - Bahgwan's Upadesa Saram was more than enough for him .
According to Sadhu OM , he considered Bhagwan's Ulladhu Naarpadu as the essence of Bhagwan's teachings .
I do not know about Annamalai Sawmy but in one picture of David Godman's book "Living by the words of Bhagwan" , I saw the entire "Ulladhu Naarpdahu" written on the walls of Annamalai Swamy  house .I do not know whether it is still there or white washed after his passing away .

So each person resonates differently to Bhagwan's teachings .For me I found Annamalai Swamy's Final Talks and Living by the Words of Bhagwan as the best books that helped me understand Bhagwan Ramana and his teachings better .I am yet to study Bhagwan's Classical Tamil works seriously and have just started with Akshara Mana Malai .

Dear atmavichar,
          :) Even Upadesha saram was written by Ramana himself in Sanskrit right ?

But then with respect to all these, also interpretations and doubts can be raised always!
someone may simply say "upadesha saram is like that coz ramana was asked to write it within the context of a particular incident in the puranas" .

Why can one not say that Murgnar was very devotional and Ramana taught him in accordance with his devotional temperment not to disturb his faith ??

These are all interpretations arent they ?

BTW, just out of curiosity, what are the differences between sat-darshanam and the tamil version ? Can someone comment ?


As my knowledge of Classical Sanskrit /Classical Tamil is quite poor I cant give a judgement on it or with regard to any of Bhagwan's works .
As for Sad Darshanam ( Sanskrit ) and Tamil ( Ulladu Naarpadu ) , I have Swami Paramarthananda's Talks for the Sasnkrit Version and Nochur for the Tamil Version and once I have listened to both in depth ,I will let u know . But that will take a long time as now I have started only with Bahgwan's Akashra Mana Malai chanting and slowly memorizing it and step by step  :) Might be Subramaniam Sir and Ravi who are good in Classical Tamil can help you out .
Ok time for my evening Satsang with Bhagwan Ramana .
Om Peace .

I am very well aware of this! Its not easy to understand a Realized person and his teaching unless he himself expresses in his own words.

Bhagwan Ramana has documented whatever he wanted to convey in Classical Tamil and all his Tamil Works Prose and Poetry can be considered to be authentic as they were composed by him and the Guru Vachaka Kovai composed by Muruganar has been well corrected by Bhagwan . In Bhagwan Ramana's Circles : the Ramana Prasthana Traya are : 1) Updadesa Undiyar 2) Ulladu Naarpadu 3) Guru Vachaka Kovai and there is no doubt regrading the authenticity of the same as they are written in Classical Tamil .
Why Classical Tamil ?
Few years back I was talking to one great Ramana Devotee who himself is an expert in Classical Tamil and have written commentaries on some of Bhagwan's works and he said Classical Tamil is always used to preserve authentic works in Tamil Culture as there is very little scope for tampering once the verses are composed in Classical Tamil . So while Guru Vachaka Kovai is basically the written response of Bhagwan to his devotees the  English form of it took the name of "Talks with Ramana Maharishi " , "Day by Day with Bhagwan" etc but the authentic essence of the same is contained in Guru Vachaka Kovai which was written by Murugnar who was a witness to the dialogue and after Bhagwan gave an answer , Muruganar composed a verse and submitted it to Bhagwan and Bhagwan did correct the same ( correction for grammar , correction for right meaning etc ) and Muruganar then made the final draft .
Why Muruganar ?
While hundreds and thousands of devotees came to meet Bahgwan and asked him his advice .They did not ask him his advice but told what they are doing and asked how they can proceed further . So each one came with his / her own backlog and wanted to improve from that and none questioned the validity of their own backlog and Bhagwan not intending to Upset anyone just told them to proceed from where they are .It was only Muruganar who came to Bhagwan and asked him "what is your teaching and sat silently by his side " and as the saying Goes when the student is ready the teacher comes along , Bhagwan allowed Muruganar to record his teachings in Classical Tamil . Again Bhagwan had no problem with people writing in English but he choose not to correct the same but he choose to correct Muruganar's Classical Verses in Tamil .
In this context I wish to point out that Sri Kavya Kantha Ganapathi , a great Sanskrit Scholar did translate Bahgwan's Ulladu Naarpadu in Sanskrit as Sad Darshanam but he belongs to the Shakti Upasana lineage and hence he was interpreting everything from that angle and when Bhagwan corrected his SAsnkrit verses , he again changed it and after few times Bahgwan got fed up and told let him write what he wants . :)

So in conclusion : I am no authority of Bhagwan's works but I consider Bhagwan's propse and Poetry works written by him along with Guruvacha Kovai of Muruganar that was corrected by Bhagwan himself to be authentic works of Bhagwan( based on my information above ) and only problem is one must know some amount of Classical Tamil to understand it properly .I have no idea about what all he wrote in Telugu /Malayalam/Sanskrit . I enjoy reading the English works related to Bhagwan and will continue to do so as but for serious study ,I will only refer his Classical Works in Tamil and have started to study his works seriously starting with Aksharama Mana Malai .Of course this is my interpretation and I have nothing to argue for or against this and people are free to make their own interpretations of what is authentic /not authentic with respect to Bhagwan's works .

Dear Forum Members

I am starting a separate thread regarding the "Authenticity" of Bhagwan's Writings and Dialogues and thanks to Ravi for giving a link to David Godman's blpg regrading the same  in another thread .
There is an article by David Godman on the authenticity of sri Bhagavan's writings and dialogues.Those interested may visit:

The basic thing is that sometimes in the dialogues of Bhagwan there is a danger of misinterpretation ,wrong communication even when the intention was not that as Bhagwan's dialogues were never recorded  nor people were allowed to take notes in his presence .
So go through that thread to understand how Bhagwan's works came to be published .

There is an article by David Godman on the authenticity of sri Bhagavan's writings and dialogues.Those interested may visit:

Thanks Ravi ,
I feel this needs an independent thread in itself ,so that people who are interested in Bhagwan's teachings can know for themselves the status of various books that came in the name of Bhagwan .

Om Peace

Q: Which is better, to practice meditation or to study spiritual books like the Upanishads?

M: It is entirely a matter of temperament. If you find that meditation suits you and helps to attain progress, then go on with it. Other people find that studying books suits them better than meditation. Different people must have different paths, it is a matter of individual taste and temperament

I feel the problem is not much in studying the books but in "Understanding" what those books convey . Right now I am reading a book called "How to  read a book "  by Mr Mortimer  J Adler :) and only after I came across this book, I realized how mush I missed out in the art of Reading . This book talks about difference between reading for information and reading for Understanding . Reading with Variable speed , different approaches whiles reading books of Science , Economics , Philosophy , Politics , History , Biography , Religion , Spirituality etc Of course here books means not just novels ,works of fiction etc but books written by people who are experts in their respective fields . Anyway better late than ever I feel  :)

General Discussion / Re: Zen books
« on: November 20, 2012, 12:44:33 PM »
I found Osho's Zen stories in his Magazine "Osho times" very wonderful  .That Magazine does not come now in Print .I do not know whether they have published a collection of his zen stories ,will look out for the same .

Not to think “I am Brahman” or “All is Brahman” is itself jivanmukti.

Thanks for this wonderful pick from Talks 111. I can retrace my steps and I was in this trap for a long time during 2007-2008 period :) after listening to some so-called gurus. Wish I had read Talks at that time - would not have spent 2-3 years in that mode


While talks with Bhagwan Ramana are good for beginners to get interested in Bhagwan Ramana's teachings , we must be quite careful about their contents as they are written in English and there can be errors in communicating in English and also errors due to the tone of language .Most of the people use a Yogic language for communication and that is the problem in Advaita . So they may intend one thing but communicate in a different tone and that leads to errors .
The best source for Bhagwan's works are his pure Tamil Works ( Arunachala Stuti Panchakam and Updaesa Nun Malai - Upadesa Undiyar , Ulladu Naarpadu /Anubandam , Ekanma Panchakam , Appalap Patty , Anma Vidya ) + Guru Vachaka Kovai that he has himself personally edited and checked before they were published .

Ramana Ashram has brought out an excellent Commentary on Arunachala Stuti Panchakam and Upadesa Nun Malai in English by Smt T R Kanakammal , who had the blessings of Bhagwan Ramana and also fortunate to get personal lessons on Bhagwan's Works from Sri Murugunar and hence her works can be considered as very authentic .I have both the English and Tamil versions and it is good to read in Tamil but if u do not know Tamil next best is to read her English Translation .

Om Peace .

I also finished my Laxmi Puja and before that Chanted Sri Suktam and other Vedic Chants .Happy that others also did the Online Laxmi Puja .

Hey,this is great!  :) I did everything which is writen and i completed pooja. It is beautiful! Now i even know what should be done.

Thank You Very much,dear atmavichar100! I enjoyed!

With love and prayers,


Happy that you had a try with the Online Lakshmi Puja .I also did it and had a great thrill .I will repeat it again tomorrow evening .
Om peace .

General topics / Regarding Lakshmi Puja Significance , Online Lakashmi Puja
« on: November 12, 2012, 07:30:32 PM »
Dear Forum Members

While Deepavali is Celebrated all over India on Tue 13 Nov 2013 , the Lakshmi Puja is Celebrated mostly in Northern and Western India on the evening of Tue 13 Nov 2012  and in South India , mostly the North Indians only Celebrate the same . Last year during Deepavali I was in Rishikesh and had the blessings to witness Laxmi Puja being Celebrated at the Banks of Ganges and was highly impressed by it and felt Others must also get to know about the same .Though in spirituality Wealth is not Given importance but that is with respect for not hoarding wealth for selfish reasons but we need to be blessed with abundant wealth for doing Charity and noble deeds and hence must respect and welcome Goddess Laxmi in to our homes .Bhagwan Ramana himself took lot of Care of Lakshmi the Cow and who knows it can be even Godess Laxmi herself as even today Ramana ashram is providing free food and accomodation to thousands of devotees.
Here is a brief write up about Laxmi Puja and for those who cant do Laxmi Puja at home at the base I have given a link to an Online Simulation of Laxmi Puja which we can do it virtually following the simple instructions there .Kindly make use of it and receive the blessings of Goddess Laxmi .

Date : Tue 13 Nov 2012
Lakshmi Puja Muhurta = 17:47:13 to 19:45:15
About Laksmi Puja :
Lakshmi Puja or the worship of Goddess of Wealth is the major event of Diwali celebrations especially in the Northern and Western India. Lakshmi Puja takes place on the third and the main day of Diwali. On this day traditional worship of Goddess Lakshmi is sincerely performed in all households and business establishments after sunset. People believe that Goddess Lakshmi visits every house during Diwali and gives blessings of peace and prosperity. People light up rows of lamps in the house to welcome the Goddess of Wealth and Prosperity and also to light up her path. There is a tradition to keep the house spotlessly clean on Diwali as it is believed that Goddess Lakshmi loves cleanliness and visits the cleanest house first. This also explains why broom is worshiped with an offering of haldi (turmeric) and kumkum (vermilion) on Diwali.

Legend of Lakshmi Puja

Hindu mythology regards Goddess Lakshmi as the Goddess of light, beauty, wealth and good fortune. She is said to be the daughter of sage Bhrigu who took refuge in the ocean of milk and was reborn during the famous ocean churning process carried out by Gods and demons. Diwali is celebrated to commemorate the birth of the Goddess of Wealth and hence Lakshmi Puja is a very important part of the celebrations. Goddess Lakshmi chose Lord Vishnu as her consort. People worship Goddess Lakshmi to gain riches but Goddess resides only with those who work hard and avoids the company of lazy or those who regard money as everything in life. It may be noted that Lakshmi Puja is actually a combined puja of five deities. Lord Ganesha is worshipped at the beginning of every auspicious act as Vighnaharta. Goddess Lakshmi is worshipped in her three forms - Mahalakshmi (the Goddess of Wealth and Money), Mahasaraswati (the Goddess of Books and Learning), and Mahakali. Worshipping of Kuber (the Treasurer of the Gods) is also an integral part of Lakshmi Puja.

Link to Online Virtual Laxmi Puja

Thanks Subramaniam Sir
Keep it coming .If possible , list out the song name , song no .

Om Peace .

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