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Messages - atmavichar100

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General topics / Re: Tamil Scriptures
« on: December 06, 2012, 07:07:06 PM »
The following 2 verses in Vinayaka Aghaval are very mystical and I doubt whether a normal human mind can understand the deep import of these verses .
சத்தத்தின் உள்ளே சதாசிவம் காட்டிச்
சித்தத்தின் உள்ளே சிவலிங்கம் காட்டி

General Discussion / Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« on: December 05, 2012, 09:22:12 PM »
Dear Sri Tushnim, both Sri Ramakrishna Param Hamsa as well as Sri Bhagwan, our two great Masters, do not consider study of scriptures as essential to Realisation. I do not understand why you  cannot accept this simple fact.

My take regarding study of Scriptures :

I discussed this personally with a Traditional Teacher of Advaita and he said that traditionally students are required to study the 3 main sources of Advaitic Texts : 1) Bhagavad Gita 2) Ten Major Upanishads and 3) Brahma Sutra plus lots of other Prakarna Granthas like Viveka Chudamani , Atma Bodha , Upadesa Saram , Tattva Bodha etc etc

But he said that since maturity of each student is different , some may inspite of reading all the above texts might still be confused and not clear and some  mature students may after studying a simple text Atma Bodha , Upadesa Saram or even a minor Upanishad like Keno Upanishad might feel they have had their doubts cleared and feel no more inclined to study further texts and go away and the teacher will definitely welcome such a step . But if such a student wants to convey / teach Scriptures to others then he must have a solid knowledge of all the above texts as understanding the truth for one's own self is different from able to convey to others in a proper methodology .
So for personal clarity there is no compulsion to study all those texts .

The question is not what you read ( i.e Upanishads  , Ramana's works , Ramakrishna Works etc ) , how much you read but what have you assimilated or understood  or how much clear you are . So it all boils to a students maturity and his coming in contact with the right teacher or right book that answers his doubts .
So we can never standardize saying one should read or not read scriptures as each and every individual vary with regard to their spiritual maturity . That is one reason we have  Adi Shankara write lot of works called Prakarna Granthas like Upadesa Sahasri ( 1000 verses ) to Eka Sloki ( 1 verse ) and even Bhagwan Ramana wrote Upadesa Saram , Sar Darshanam and translated Adi Shankara's Atma Bodham , Dakshinamurti Stotram etc in Tamil  and Muruganar wrote tons of pages in classical Tamil on Bhagwan Ramana's Upadesa . What is the need for Muruganar to write so many pages in classical Tamil  when Bhagwan's main message is just "Silence "? How many people are competent to understand that "Silence" of Bhagwan ?
By the way I have seen people who are against studying  Traditional Scriptures keep volumes of books  and CDs of their favorite teacher and keep reading them daily or listening to them daily like scriptures . If those Books can give better explanation or clarity to them it is fine but there are some people who feel that they get that clarity by reading Traditional scriptures and not through other teachers and we need to respect that also.

So in conclusion :
 Let those who want to study traditional scriptures study and those who do not want to study  need not study and we must respect both . Ultimately we cannot force anyone to do something that they are not naturally inclined to do or interested to do .

Om Peace .

General Discussion / 12 Steps for "Inner Silence"
« on: December 05, 2012, 07:20:02 PM »

Few Months back I got the following 12 Steps for "Inner Silence" from a friend of mine by email .I do not know of its source but I found it quite useful and practical and sharing it here . I do agree that  following all is not possible but we can try our best .
In another thread there was a discussion on Solitude for spiritual sadhana and I felt that we need to make the best use of our own available resources at home to create such a situation and hence sharing this .

1) Turn off the TV, Internet  and keep them off and perhaps stop reading the news as well.Use them only for functional purpose .

2) Limit or cease your intake of alcohol, don't do any drugs, stop smoking and watch your diet by starting to eat lots of raw fruits and vegetables i.e keep it as much sattvic as possible . Avoid as much as possible fast food and processed food .

3) Practice some form of meditation, contemplation or silent yoga: every day as a discipline.

4) Get plenty of sleep, at least 7-8 hours per night of gentle, uninterrupted sleep.( Many people have guilt with regard to sound sleep but in modern context sound sleep is necessary for good health and it is very useful to be productive the next day . )

5) Get in touch with nature: watch the sunrise or sunset, the clouds, the waves, listen to the birds. (This is tough in a City Environment which is a concrete jungle but try visiting a park nearby to be in touch with nature walk you way to buy daily fruits and vegetables daily instead of buying it in bulk once a week and storing it in refrigerator .At least you will have a feel of the fresh fruits and vegetables .)

6) Read some of the works of spiritual masters or teachers or Holy Texts ( like Bhagavad Gita ,Day by Day with Bhagwan  ,Gospel of Ramakrishna etc etc . You can also listen to good audio spiritual talks) .

7) Accept the fact that the past, your past is gone, dead, finished and has no control over you at all.

8 ) Forgive anyone and everyone who has hurt you in your life.

9) Seek out those you have hurt in life and ask their understanding and maybe their forgiveness but accept the fact that they might not offer you any kindness.

10) Accept the fact that "you" have absolutely no control over what the next moment or anything in the future will bring.

11) Accept the fact that NOW is the only reality: get in touch with what that really means.

12) Let go of everything you have ever learned, known or believed true, including your religious belief, your political affiliation, your social status and anything and everything that people, living and dead have told you about yourself. Instead find an answer to the question, "Who am I"? The sincere answer to that question is your freedom and the discovery of pure silence.

Om Peace .

General Discussion / Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« on: December 05, 2012, 06:56:57 PM »

Thanks very much.This post from the writings of Sri Ganesan reveal how physical seclusion was also part and parcel of the Sadhana of devotees like Annamalai Swami.Unless one has moved with these great souls,just by reading books that carry their teachings in words will not lead to a true understanding of the Essence of Practice..
More on this later.

Physical Seclusion is necessary for success in any activity and definitely for success in "Self Knowledge" , that is the reason why Saints in the past choose Himalayas and other forest areas for their seclusion , sadhana and study ,why even teaching their students . Swami Sivananda started Divine Life Society in Rishikesh only for that purpose ( now Rishikesh is quite overcrowded than it was in 1930s when he started ) and Swami Tapovan went further higher and set up his small Kutir in Uttar Kashi and people like Swami Chinmayananda went to him to study there .
At the same time all senior saints did point out that it is futile to keep searching for seclusion to start one's spiritual journey and they advised people to make use of their available place itself to do their sadhana and that is why Brahma Muhurta time was prescribed for early morning sadhana .
In this regard I read Annamalai Swamy's account where he was complaining to Bhagwan about lack of proper facilities to do his Sadhana ( i.e seclusion , food etc ) and Bhagwan told him that if he keeps waiting for such a situation , he will have to take one more birth .

So in conclusion : Seclusion is a blessing for one's sadhana , study ,contemplation but if one does not get it then best way is to retire to bed early and use the morning Brahma Muhurta time for doing one's sadhana /study etc .

Om Peace .

Swami: Such a man will only say that the source from which he came comes are his parents.

Bhagavan: He cannot be such an ignoramus, as you started by saying, he was a Sadhaka in this line already.


General topics / Re: Quotes from Shankaracharya's
« on: December 05, 2012, 10:46:00 AM »
Ishwara knows what is best for everyone. If He is pleased there is nothing else to be accomplished by a devotee. - Sri Sri Bharati Tirtha Mahaswamigal

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Sadhana Tips
« on: December 03, 2012, 06:16:44 PM »
Thanks for the information Sri Atmavichar,

There are 2 known english books, one by By A. Narasimha Bhatt is said to be the best available book in english, but unfortunately has been out of publication or unavailable for few years now. The other is Dim Tims Muses Translation Explanation Commentry of Dvgs Mankuthimmana Kagga by Sampath, Ra Shi which is also slowly running out of stock lately, but is good enough to assimilate the essence. This is the book that i have, apart one book in kannada.

Meanwhile, you can refer these sites, they are slowly updating the verses day by day

Thanks Nagarj for the link , I went through some links but they had only the Kannada Version . It is good to have the English Translation .

Om Peace .

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Sadhana Tips
« on: December 03, 2012, 06:03:38 PM »
Sri Atmavichar,

It is a wonderful news to me that Kagga has been rendered in tamil and by your far relative is great news. I would be much obliged if you can let me know the publications, I would be interested in purchasing as well, as there are a few more persons I know of here, who would be very much interested as well.

Thank you.


Her name is Radha Ganesan , and this seems to be self published work .It was released in 2007 and I am not in direct contact with them to know more about the details of the same .If I get it ,I will let you know .This work in Tamil was not done for a commercial motive and hence I doubt they have given wide publicity to the same .
As of now this is the information with  me:
Author : Radha Ganesan
Published by : Self Published
If I get any further info ,I will let u know .

BTW if you have any english translation of the same , kindly let  me know .

Om Peace

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Sadhana Tips
« on: December 03, 2012, 05:47:45 PM »
Nagaraj, Thanks for this pointer from Sri DV Gundappa .I have not heard about him but only after seeing some posts of yours I came to know of him and just now went through some info about him in wikipedia and saw that he has been awarded Sahitya Academy Award for his exposition on Srimad Bhagwad Gita . Later it came to be known that a far relative in my family has rendered DVG's  classic Mankuthimmana Kagga,in Tamil .

The quote below is really a  wonderful pointer and has given in essence the difference between knowing something in theory and really internalizing it in one's life .

Everybody is a Saint, Everybody a Preacher,
Till, Life's tests comes and stands in front,
Inner secrets of nature (vasanas) then rise from the bottom
God is the only refuge then - Mankuthimma

Thanks once again for pointing out Sri DVG .

Om Peace .

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Sadhana Tips
« on: December 03, 2012, 10:03:59 AM »
"Those endowed with sattva perform their spiritual practices secretly.”
∼ Ramakrishna

Padamalai : Qualifications for maturity (p.256)

* When the mind, through the quality of extreme purity, merges in the Heart, it will attain perfection as peace.

* If the mind that has become one-pointed, like the tip of darba-grass, merges with the Heart, the experience of pure Being, seemingly impossible to attain, will be very easily discovered.

* Taking a thick fat crowbar (as a needle), it is not possible to stitch together extremely delicate silk cloth using very fine thread

The Needle /Crowbar examples has the following explanation  I found on the net :
The average intellect is gross when compared with a truly silent mind; the comparison is very apt. Without becoming very subtle it is impossible to sink into the heart which is total silence, non-dual wholeness...

In an answer to a question by long resident attendant, Sri Bhagavan said:

Every body complains of the restlessness of mind. Let the mind be found out and then they will know. True when a sits down to meditate
thoughts rush up by dozens. The mind is a bundle of thoughts The attempt to push through the barrage of thoughts, is unsuccessful.
It can be done by any means abide in the Self it is good. For those who are unable to do so, chanting or meditation is prescribed.

Arunachala Siva.

Subramaniam Sir

I found Chanting of Bhawgwan's Arunachala Akshara Mana Malai to be very effective and potent as as well as the Maha Mantra "Arunachala Siva Arunachala Siva "

Om Peace .

There are many cases in the king-beggar analogy, which brings out many finer points.

Case 1: The king is seen as a beggar:
- The king goes to a foreign country and people mistake him as a beggar. However the king knows that he is a king and is not bothered how the people see him.

- In terms of rope and snake, little boys decorate a rope as a snake (maybe to scare others), but a person who knows it as a rope is not bothered about it.

- The king here is not the absolute controller of the situations. He has no control over how the people will perceive him in the foreign country. The person who sees the decorated rope has no control over how the little boys will decorate the rope. Even though, the king knows himself as a king, there exist others who thinks themselves as beggars.

- In this case the king has no thoughts since he does not participate in the situations. The person does not participate in the game of little boys and hence has no thoughts.

Case 2: The king plays the role of a beggar for duty:
- The king plays the role of a beggar to find out the situation in his kingdom.

- The person participates in the rope-snake game with the little boys to teach the little boys.

- The king again is not the absolute controller. He does not control external situations and works within the scheme of duty.

- In this case, the king and the person has thoughts of duty.

Case 3: The king plays the role of beggar for advantage:
- The king has to present himself as a beggar to other people to get some advantage from them.

- The person has to show the little boys his fear to get some advantage from them.

- The king again is not the absolute controller.

- In this case there are either thoughts of some bondage, or it is a trivial common sense situation.

Case 4: The king plays the role of a beggar out of joy of his kingly nature:
- The king is overjoyed with his kingly nature and plays the role of a beggar to enjoy his kingly nature. Here we are entering the territory of leela.

- The person out of joy of knowing the rope participates in the game with the little boys.

- The king again is not the absolute controller.

- In this case there are self-created thoughts. These thoughts does not bind the king but are an expression of the knowledge and freedom. The king has a sense of non-duality knowing that there is a kingly nature (which he is), and he also has a sense of duality seeing the relative world.

Case 5: The king plays the role of a beggar out of joy of seeing kingly nature everywhere:
- The king is overjoyed seeing the kingly nature in everything. He plays different roles to enjoy the kingly nature and expresses the joy of the kingly nature in the relative world.

As far as I have understood Sri Ramakrishna's sayings, Sri Ramakrishna called this case as vijnana. The vijnani performs leela to milk the joy of Brahman seeing the same divine essence everywhere. He assumes different roles and plays with different roles.

- The vijnani has thoughts, thoughts of leela, which are self-created. Standing on non-duality he puts on the garb of duality to enjoy Brahman and share its joy in the world of duality.

- However, in this case also the king may not have absolute control over everything.
He may not have any control over how the relative world originate, how beggars even though kings still thinks themselves as beggars.

- The entity which has absolute control over everything, which is in everything, which is everything, Sri Ramakrishna calls as Shakti or Divine Mother (whose passive state is Brahman).

Case 6: The king is the absolute controller (Shakti or Divine Mother) and plays all roles:
- The difference between absolute controller and non-absolute controller can be described with the wave-ocean analogy:
-- A non-absolute controller king even as wave knows himself as the ocean (the king). He however does not control other waves in the ocean nor has he the power to create waves in the ocean. An absolute controller even as a wave can control all the other waves and is the creator of all the waves.
--- An absolute controller can create maya which is a perfect art in the following sense:
When we try to play chess alone, there arises the difficulty that one side knows the thoughts of the other side. So here unity is preventing the joy of the game. Maya is such a perfect art that unity does not prevent joy in the game. Here the art of partitioning is perfect.
-- A non-absolute controller wave does not graduate and become an absolute controller wave. His only route is to merge in the ocean and stay as the ocean awareness. An absolute-controller wave is of a different nature.

- The Divine Mother can remain as the ocean or emerge as an absolute-controller wave incarnation.

- The Divine Mother creates stages for leela, the kings, subjects and everything from Her own nature and Herself plays through the creation. She creates joys, sorrows and many other moods.

- Obviously Divine Mother is a jnani. Whether a jnani is Divine Mother playing a role with full knowledge of Her nature, it is difficult to say.

- Obviously Divine Mother has thoughts, created by her. She not only creates thoughts for one role, but for all roles wherever applicable. However, She is also thoughtless, as Brahman. She is depicted as dancing on the bosom of Shiva. Shiva is also shown as Ardha-Narishwara.

- A beggar does not know himeself as king because of Her maya.
A beggar knows himself as a king because of her grace.
Expressing in a more non-dualistic way, a beggar knows himself as king when the Divine Mother graduates her beggar's role to king's role.

In summary:
- A king will not have thoughts if he is not participating in any play (e.g. case 1). The king will have thoughts if he is participating in a role play.

- A king who is not an absolute-controller wave stays in ocean awareness. He is not the creator of waves. The king who is an absolute-controller creates and controls all the waves.
(The absolute-controller wave concept is not accepted in all philosophies. Here it is stated to bring out different cases of the king-beggar analogy)

These inferences are based on king-beggar example and sayings of Sri Ramakrishna.

So many Cases for a King-Beggar , Snake-Rope analogy  :)

Another visitor, who said that he was from Sri Aurobindo’s Ashram, asked Bhagavan: “But we see pain in the world. A man is hungry. It is a physical reality. It is very real to him. Are we to call it a dream and remain unmoved by his pain?”

From the point of view of jnana or the reality, the pain you speak of is certainly a dream, as is the world of which the pain is an infinitesimal part. In the dream also you yourself feel hunger. You see others suffering hunger. You feed yourself and, moved by pity, feed the others that you find suffering from hunger. So long as the dream lasted, all those pains were quite as real as you now think the pain you see in the world to be. It was only when you woke up that you discovered that the pain in the dream was unreal. You might have eaten to the full and gone to sleep. You dream that you work hard and long in the hot sun all day, are tired and hungry and want to eat a lot. Then you get up and find your stomach is full and you have not stirred out of your bed. But all this is not to say that while you are in the dream you can act as if the pain you feel there is not real. The hunger in the dream has to be assuaged by the food in the dream. The fellow beings you found in the dream so hungry had to be provided with food in that dream. You can never mix up the two states, the dream and the waking state. Till you reach the state of jnana and thus wake out of this maya, you must do social service by relieving suffering whenever you see it. But even then you must do it, as we are told, without ahamkara, i.e., without the sense “I am the doer,” but feeling, “I am the Lord’s tool.” Similarly one must not be conceited, “I am helping a man below me. He needs help. I am in a position to help. I am superior and he inferior.” But you must help the man as a means of worshipping God in that man. All such service too is for the Self, not for anybody else.You are not helping anybody else, but only yourself.

Mr. T.P. Ramachandra Aiyar said in this connection, “There is the classic example of Abraham Lincoln, who helped a pig to get out of a ditch and in the process had himself and his clothes dirtied. When questioned why he took so much trouble, he replied, ‘I did it to put an end not so much to the pig’s trouble, as to my own pain in seeing the poor thing struggle to get out of the ditch’.”

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