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Messages - atmavichar100

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General topics / Re: Tamil Scriptures
« on: November 24, 2012, 12:28:58 PM »
Tamizh is such a wonderful language ,so expressive and succinct.People think that there are not enough alphabets to support it phonetically but the richness of this ancient language is elsewhere!

Tamizh is the language of heart .

The vasanas are deeply embedded and one does not know when these would strike us.
My Yoga Guru Swami Vishnu devananda who was himself a direct disciple of Swami Sivananda and had lot of followers all over the world ,always used to keep the picture of Swami Sivananda and an Idol of Lord Nataraja by his side .When some people asked why does he need to do it when he himself is a Guru to so many people , he used to say that none can say for sure when power of Maya can overcome us and added that even after years of investing in spiritual sadhana one can fall down any time and one always need the Grace of God and Guru to be protected from negative forces and hence he always carries the picture of God and Guru with him and keeps him by side in his room .

All other 'Vasanas' are easier to handle but the 'self importance' and 'I am knowledgeable' vasana can only be fixed by a Guru who comes down with a sledge Hammer even when the disciple is not conscious of its presence in himself.

Very true .

I am copy pasting the opinion on Vasanas by Sri Ravi and Subramaniam Sir that I found in another thread as they are very relevant for this discussion and introspection . Vasana Kshaya is a very very important topic in spirituality and one of the reasons for the fall of many people on the spiritual path is their inability to handle their rajasic and tamasic vasanas .

What is vasana?Whatever rises from nowhere and 'compels' one to do something.This is all what a vasana is,and this cannot be handled by a general 'I am not the Body' mentation.
Further we cannot be eating 'onions' and 'Raddishes' all the time and justify the Belching saying that it is only a 'Vasana'.This is a 'Habit' which is Gross and one has to handle it at the Gross and subtle levels.Stop the eating of 'onions' and 'Radishes' and ensure that one is free from Belching.
Vasana is something that is ordinarily never there in the conscious Living and takes us by surprise by its surfacing;we then become aware of its existence and deal with it by ensuring that its roots are removed and no further possibility exists for their reappearance.
Now do not take it that I am suggesting to avoid eating of the plant onion and Plant Raddish.I am speaking in metaphorical terms-I mean every Rajasic activity(Argueing endlessly,Projecting oneself,thinking that every other person is dumb)-All other 'Vasanas' are easier to handle but the 'self importance' and 'I am knowledgeable' vasana can only be fixed by a Guru who comes down with a sledge Hammer even when the disciple is not conscious of its presence in himself.
Dear Ravi,

Yes. The vasanas are deeply embedded and one does not know when these would strike us. It is like Hanuman who
suddenly appeared from nowhere and vanquished the ministers, commanders and even Akshyakumara without any
weapons worth the name. Vasana Kshayam needs a Brahmastra - Self Inquiry and  Guru's Grace.

Arunachala Siva.

General Discussion / Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« on: November 24, 2012, 11:51:44 AM »

I am copy pasting some  of the opinions here on Vasanas in the Vasana thread that I have opened .Those views are very enriching ..Kindly share your views there .
"Vasana" is a very important topic as every spiritual seeker is disturbed by it and how to tackle it is what we need the method .
Om Peace .

An Asramam inmate told me: No one can take other's papas and punyas. Sri Bhagavan had told this to the questioner so that he
would be at peace and Sri Bhagavan's assurance that he had cleaned up the slate made him to keep away from papas.

Arunachala Siva.

Subramaniam Sir

Bhagwan's role here in taking that person's punya and papas is purely psychological . But yet the fact it helped relive the other person's feeling of guilt is what matters .
In Christianity there is this concept of confession in the Church to relieve ourself of our Guilt .
In Sanathana Dharma we have the concept of relieving our sins by taking bath in Ganges or Holy river .That is again purely psychological .
 Why go so far , you can go to your local temple ,stand before the deity and confess to it in silence your omissions and commissions and feel a big emotional relief .
Om Peace .

Ashrams / Re: Impressions from travels to Tiruvannamalai
« on: November 23, 2012, 12:54:03 PM »
Dear Jewell, atmavichar100,

Yes. Gazing at His photo with out even a thought or with some mantra within lips is one of the best sadhana.

Incidentally, how many of you look the webcam photo of Arunachala on a day? Once? Twice? Or more?

Arunachala Siva.

Subramaniam Sir

I do not look at the webcam daily but I have downloaded a pic of Arunachala and Bhagwan Ramana in my computer  that I look at it some times but I always visualize Bhagwan Ramana and Arunachala before I start to chant Shiva Sahasranama and Arunachala Akshara Mana Malai .

It was a summer evening, and we were all sitting outside in the open space by the well. Suddenly one of the visitors started weeping bitterly.

'I am a horrible sinner. For a long time I have been coming to you, but there is no change in me. Can I become pure at last? How long am I to wait? When I am here near you, I am good for a time. But when I leave this place, I become a beast again. You cann
ot imagine how bad I can be -- hardly a human being. Am I to remain a sinner forever?'

'Why do you come to me? What have I to do with you?' demanded Bhagavan. 'What is there between us that you should come here and weep and cry in front of me?'

The man started moaning and crying even more, as if his heart were breaking.

'All my hopes of salvation are gone. You were my last refuge and you say you have nothing to do with me! To whom shall I turn now? What am I to do? To whom am I to go?'

Bhagavan watched him for some time and said, 'Am I your Guru that I should be responsible for your salvation? Have I ever said that I am your Master?'

'If you are not my Master, then who is? And who are you, if not my Master? You are my Guru. You are my guardian angel. You must take pity me and release me from my sins!'

He started sobbing and crying again.

We all sat silent, overcome with pity. Only Bhagavan looked alert and matter-of-fact.

'If I am your Guru, what are my fees? Surely you should pay me for my services.'

'But you won't take anything,' cried the visitor. 'What can I give you?'

'Did I ever say that I don't take anything? And did you ever ask me what you can give me?'

'If you would take, then ask me. There is nothing I would not give you.'

'All right. Now I am asking. Give me. What will you give me?'

'Take anything. Everything I have is yours.'

'Then give me all the good you have done in this world.'

'What good could I have done? I have not a single virtue to my credit.'

'You have promised to give. Now give. Don't talk of your credit. Just give away all the good you have done in your past.'

'Yes, I shall give. But how does one give? Tell me how the giving is done and I shall give.'

'Say like this: "All the good I have done in the past I am giving away entirely to my Guru. Henceforth I have no merit from it nor have I any concern with it." Say it with your whole heart.'

'All right, Swami. "I am giving away to you all the good I have done so far, if I have done any, and all its good effects. I am giving it to you gladly, for you are my Master and you are asking me to give it all away to you.'

'But this is not enough,' said Bhagavan sternly.

'I gave you all I have and all you asked me to give. I have nothing more to give.'

'No, you have. Give me all your sins.'

The man looked wildly at Bhagavan, terror stricken.

'You do not know, Swami, what you are asking for. If you knew, you would not ask me. If you take over my sins, your body will rot and burn. You do not know me, you do not know my sins. Please do not ask me for my sins.'

He wept bitterly.

'I shall look after myself. Don't you worry about me,' said Bhagavan. 'All I want from you is your sins.'

For a long time the bargain would not go through. The man refused to part with his sins. But Bhagavan was adamant.

'Either give me your sins along with your merits, or keep both and don't think of me as your Master."

In the end the visitor's scruples broke down and he declared, 'Whatever sins I have done, they are no longer mine. All of them and their results, too, belong to Ramana.'

Bhagavan seemed to be satisfied. 'From now on there is no good nor bad in you. You are just pure. Go and do nothing, either good or bad. Remain yourself. Remain what you are.'

A great peace fell over the man and over us all. No one knows what happened to the fortunate visitor, for he was never seen in the ashram again. He might have had no further need to come.

Practise of Understanding!
not disjoing: Practise , Understanding.

Practise of the understanding.

Thats what you can read in all my posts.

incidentally practise of understanding is called nidhidhyasanam.

Got it . Thanks . BTW has  this  been quoted in Bhagawad Gita / 10 Classical Upanishad about this i.e like in MuktioUpanishad

Absolutely simple message from Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi.

Muktikopanishad says
"Mano-nasha, Vasana-kshaya and Bodha have to be practised continuously for long time"

by mano-nasha it means abiding like a Stone with all attention resolved at its source.
by vasana-kshaya it means remaining indifferent to vasana promptings.
by bodha it means holding onto the understanding that "I AM SELF"

This is my view. These three together have to be practised until it becomes natural.

So Understanding + Practice  :)


I have opened a separate thread  on vasanas for this .Kindly transfer your contents there and share your views .

There is lot of conflict with regard to destruction of Vasanas . Some say Knowledge destroys it , some say practice destroys it , some say a combination of both .Some question the word "destroy" itself . There is lot of conflict in the language of experience school v/s language of understanding school .
I have presented below Bhagwan's short views of the same .

Those who want to elaborate on this can kindly do .

D: Since Realization is not possible without vasana- kshaya, how am I to realise that State in which the vasanas are effectively destroyed?

M: You are in that State now!

D: Does it mean that by holding on to the Self, the vasanas should be destroyed as and when they emerge?

M: They will themselves be destroyed if you remain as
you are.

Vasana Kshaya is advocated very strongly in Muktikopanishad and even Jivan Mukti viveka.
so the importance of Vasana Kshaya and Mano-nasha must be understood.

The problem however is ... what is Vasana ? The fundamental vasana is that i am the body/mind. If this is the vasana, it can only be done away with "i am not the body/mind". The thorn of "i am not the body/mind" has to be used to remove the vasana called "i am body/mind". if i am meditating on "i am not the body/mind" ... it would not be correct for me to say "i am bound". Infact every time the "i am body/mind" vasana makes me feel bound, i counter it by seeing that i am not the body/mind but the Drk of that!

If I keep giving this idea that "I AM bound" importance ...either in the secular or religious sense, then i am actually watering the vasana called "i am the body/mind" !!


This needs a separate thread for discussion . Let us follow it up later in a separate thread .I have started a separate thread on Vasana Kshaya . This was one reason why I asked you to start writing on "Tattva Bodha" that discusses the fundamentals . There is lot of confusion on basic words , confusion in meaning and confusion in their usage . There is a conflict in the language of experience v/s the language of understanding . I am not competent to talk about this issue at this stage .Kindly share your inputs on that thread on "Vasana Kshaya"

Dear Atmavichar,
      :) What you said is perfect :)!
"Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis"

When we do this, even if the teacher is found to have not lived it, the teaching would remain valid within ourselves coz we live it! :)


I have stopped worrying much about teachers behavior .I had to bring out this issue because there was a quote on "knowledge" and "vasanas" and there has been a sort of new age Vedanta /Non duality  movement that says problem is ignorance and solution is "knowledge" and that is enough to take care of everything . I personally have no objection to any sort of theory ( New Age/Old Age ) and everyone has the right to share what they feel . That theory might work for some but I do not belong to that category .
I believe in what Bhagwan said about Vasanas and pointed out as an example of how some leading people failed in spite of having knowledge because they have not worked out on their vasanas .
I have nothing personal against those people and I have no advice for them and leave it to them /almighty to decide how they should go about with their own future .
So I am guided by those pointers I have listed before but I know that is quite a hard work and that is why I am relying on prayer to Lord Shiva /Lord Arunachala in giving me strength to go ahead on this spiritual path without getting trapped through false Gurus and false teachings and spiritual laziness .So far I have been blessed in getting the right people and right teachings in my life and I hope the same will continue in future .I consider this forum to be also a blessing in my life .
Om Peace


For me whats really important is the understanding that changes my life..

I concur with the above quote of yours . In the past i.e many years back I used to get upset when I used to hear these sort of news but  after reading "Living By the Words of Bhagwan " I just smile when I get these sort of news . No doubt I do get upset but I do not allow that to dominate my thinking anymore .

Personally these are what I try to follow in my own life to avoid falling in to such mental traps :
To resist the influence of others, knowledge of oneself is most important -Teal'c

Work out your own salvation. Do not depend on others.-Buddha

Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings -- that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.- Buddha

Mind your business .Attend to what you came for - Bhagwan

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