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Messages - atmavichar100

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Dear Friends

Few years back I had this email correspondence with David Godman regarding the topic "How to find one's own Guru " after reading the book BE AS YOU ARE by David Godman .
Here is question and David's reply .Hope it helps others also in the same .
Om Peace

Dear David ,This is with regard to a doubt in your book BE AS YOU ARE- The Teachings of Ramana Maharshi   Pg.92

Q : How can I find my own Guru
    Bhagwan: By intense meditation
    Now my doubt is , what sort of meditation is implied  here?
    is it Meditation on the form of a deity like what Papaji did  or any other form of meditation .Can you elaborate this ?

This is what David Godman replied :

Papaji used to say that it is the desire for liberation or for God that brings one to a Guru, and he would cite his own case in support of this. He said that the sadhana one performs is actually a symptom or a side effect of this hunger for transcendence. If realisation happens, it is not because of a particular practice since that is just the symptom or the outer manifestion of a hunger for God or the Self. It is the unwavering desire for God or the Self that takes you to the goal, not the practice that this desire manifests as. I would also, with reference to your answer, that if the desire for the Self is strong and persistent enough, a Guru wil manifest.

          Best Wishes            David Godman

Yes! He has assimilated the Truth Very well :)

Dear atmavichar,
        can I take this post of yours into my Annamalai Swami's sayings thread in general discussions forum ? I am little lazy to type these :D


I owe no copyrights to these messages .It belongs to Annamalai Swami and David Godman  :)
So feel free to use it .I got it from Ramana Maharshi  FB page .Of course primary source is David Godman's book "Living by the Words of Bhagwan"

Om Peace .

Conversation with Annamalai Swami
from: 'Living By The Words Of Bhagavan' by David Godman

Q.: What is the easiest way to be free of the 'little self'?

Annamalai Swami: Stop identifying with it. If you can convince yourself, 'This little self is not really me,' it will disappear.

Q.: But how to do that?

AS.: The little self is something that only appears to be real. If you understand that it has no real existence it will disappear, leaving behind it the experience of the real and only Self. Understand that it has no real existence and it will stop troubling you.
Consciousness is universal. There is no limitation or 'little self' in it. It is only when we identify with and limit ourselves to the body and the mind that this false sense of self is born. If, through enquiry, you go to the source of the 'little self', you find that it dissolves into nothingness.

Q.: But I am very accustomed to feel 'I am this 'little self' '. I cannot break this habit merely by thinking 'I am not this 'little self''.

AS.: This 'little self' will only give way to the real Self if you meditate constantly. You cannot wish it away with a few stray thoughts. Try to remember the analogy of the rope which looks like a snake in twilight. If you see the rope as snake the real nature of the rope is hidden from you. If you only see the rope the snake is not there. Not only that - you know that there never was a snake there. (Then) the question of how to kill the snake disappears... If you can understand that this 'little self' never at any time had any existence outside your imagination, you will not be concerned about ways and means of getting rid of it.

Q.: It is all very clear but I feel I need some help. I am not sure that i can generate this conviction by myself.

AS.: The desire for assistance is part of your problem. Don't make the mistake of imagining that there is a goal to be reached or attained. If you think like this you will start looking for methods to practice and people to help you. This just perpetuates the problem you are trying to end. Instead, cultivate the strong awareness, 'I am the Self. I am That. I am Brahman. I am everything.'.. The best way to (stop believing the wrong ideas about yourself) is to replace them with ideas which more accurately reflect the real state of affairs. ...
The Self is always attained, it is always realized; it is not something that you have to seek, reach or discover. Your vasanas and all the wrong ideas you have about yourself are blocking and hiding the experience of the real Self. If you don't identify with these wrong ideas, your Self-nature will not be hidden from you.

Cautionary advice / Re: The corruption of Satsanga
« on: November 25, 2012, 06:33:54 PM »
The corruption of Satsanga

Today Satsang Culture is a reflection of what people are . You get the Gurus that reflect your inner nature .
The real meaning of Satsang is 'association with the Wise', preferably the Self-realised Sages (Jnani's) who speak only of God and fully practice dharma (righteousness), though Sages who are not yet Self-realised, but live according to the rules of dharma are also considered to be Wise.

Today's Gurus are no doubt Good speakers but there is less Dharma in their own day to day life but then again it comes back to people i.e how many people live Dharmic life ? Gurus emerge only from those set of people .

Today the word 'satsang' is widely used to promote what can only be described as talking-shops (the opposite of satsang), where self-appointed gurus pontificate about subjects they know little or nothing about, manufacture their own poisoned theories, indulge in cheap psychology and pursue their vices. They also expect you to pay for all of this in every possible way.

You pay to listen to talks on silence  :)

You can download 'The Mother with Letters on the Mother' from this site:
Thanks Ravi .

The personal effort required is a triple labour of aspiration, rejection and surrender :

 •an aspiration vigilant, constant, unceasing ― the mind’s will, the heart’s seeking, the assent of the vital being, the will to open and make plastic the physical consciousness and nature;

 •rejection of the movements of the lower nature •― rejection of the mind‘s ideas, opinions, preferences, habits, constructions, so that the true knowledge may find free room in a silent mind,
 •― rejection of the vital nature’s desires, demands, cravings, sensations, passions, selfishness, pride, arrogance, lust, greed, jealousy, envy, hostility to the Truth, so that the true power and joy may pour from above into a calm, large, strong and consecrated vital being,
 •― rejection of the physical nature’s stupidity, doubt, disbelief, obscurity, obstinacy, pettiness, laziness, unwillingness to change, tamas, so that the true stability of Light, Power, Ananda may establish itself in a body growing always more divine;
surrender of oneself and all one is and has and every plane of the consciousness and every movement to the Divine and the Shakti.

Sri Aurobindo   

Ravi is this from Aurobindo's "Letters on Yoga "?

General topics / Re: Tamil Scriptures
« on: November 24, 2012, 09:04:37 PM »
Thanks Subramaniam Sir putting this song of Barathidasan .

General topics / Re: Tamil Scriptures
« on: November 24, 2012, 04:50:29 PM »
Bharatidasan was a wonderful person,very upright,downright honest,uncompromising in not pandering to anything selfish.Truly a noble soul despite his joining the Dravidian movement.
Ravi and others
Unfortunately to the extent to which Subramania Bharathiar songs are popular Pavendar Bharatidasan's songs have not been made popular and it is just confined to DMK,DK ,Rationalist and Atheistic circles in TN and Pondicherry . Might be because he expounded the cause of Tamil Nationalism and Atheism a lot than talking about God and a United India  which Subramanya Bratahi did .
But he has sung about Parasakhthi starting with "Engengun Kaanum Sakthi..."
I and unable to get the lyrics of the same .If someone has it kindly share the same .
The above film song "Sangae Muzhangu.." by Pavendar Barathi Dasan is what I listen to it regularly .

General topics / Re: Tamil Scriptures
« on: November 24, 2012, 04:39:50 PM »

Excellent  write up about Pavendar Bharatidasan .
Here is an excellent song by Pavendar Bharati Dasan Sangae Muzhangu for Tamil.

சங்கே முழங்கு , சங்கே முழங்கு , சங்கே முழங்கு எங்கள் வாழ்வும் எங்கள் வளமும் மங்காத தமிழென்று சங்கே முழங்கு சங்கே முழங்கு! எங்கள் வாழ்வும் எங்கள் வளமும் மங்காத தமிழென்று சங்கே முழங்கு. எங்கள் பகைவர் எங்கோ மறைந்தார் இங்குள்ள தமிழர்கள் ஒன்றாதல் கண்டே! பொங்கும் தமிழர்க் கின்னல் விளைத்தால், பொங்கும் தமிழர்க் கின்னல் விளைத்தால் சங்காரம் நிஜமெனச் சங்கே முழங்கு!

சங்கே முழங்கு , சங்கே முழங்கு , சங்கே முழங்கு

திங்களொடும் செழும்பரிதி தன்னோடும் விண்ணோடும் உடுக்களோடும்,
மங்குல் கடல் இவற்றோடும் பிறந்த தமிழுடன் பிறந்தோம் நாங்கள்,
தமிழுடன் பிறந்தோம் நாங்கள்,

ஆண்மைச் சிங்கத்தின் கூட்டமென்றும் சிறியோர்க்கு ஞாபகம் செய் முழங்கு சங்கே! சங்கே முழங்கு

வெங்கொடுமைச் சாக்காட்டில் விளையாடும் தோளெங்கள் வெற்றித் தோள்கள்.
கங்கையைப்போல் காவிரிபோல் கருத்துக்கள் ஊறுமுள்ளம் எங்கள் உள்ளம்!
வெங்குருதி தனிற்கமழ்ந்து வீரஞ்செய்கின்ற தமிழ் எங்கள் மூச்சாம்! தமிழ் எங்கள் மூச்சாம்!

General topics / Re: Tamil Scriptures
« on: November 24, 2012, 12:28:58 PM »
Tamizh is such a wonderful language ,so expressive and succinct.People think that there are not enough alphabets to support it phonetically but the richness of this ancient language is elsewhere!

Tamizh is the language of heart .

The vasanas are deeply embedded and one does not know when these would strike us.
My Yoga Guru Swami Vishnu devananda who was himself a direct disciple of Swami Sivananda and had lot of followers all over the world ,always used to keep the picture of Swami Sivananda and an Idol of Lord Nataraja by his side .When some people asked why does he need to do it when he himself is a Guru to so many people , he used to say that none can say for sure when power of Maya can overcome us and added that even after years of investing in spiritual sadhana one can fall down any time and one always need the Grace of God and Guru to be protected from negative forces and hence he always carries the picture of God and Guru with him and keeps him by side in his room .

All other 'Vasanas' are easier to handle but the 'self importance' and 'I am knowledgeable' vasana can only be fixed by a Guru who comes down with a sledge Hammer even when the disciple is not conscious of its presence in himself.

Very true .

I am copy pasting the opinion on Vasanas by Sri Ravi and Subramaniam Sir that I found in another thread as they are very relevant for this discussion and introspection . Vasana Kshaya is a very very important topic in spirituality and one of the reasons for the fall of many people on the spiritual path is their inability to handle their rajasic and tamasic vasanas .

What is vasana?Whatever rises from nowhere and 'compels' one to do something.This is all what a vasana is,and this cannot be handled by a general 'I am not the Body' mentation.
Further we cannot be eating 'onions' and 'Raddishes' all the time and justify the Belching saying that it is only a 'Vasana'.This is a 'Habit' which is Gross and one has to handle it at the Gross and subtle levels.Stop the eating of 'onions' and 'Radishes' and ensure that one is free from Belching.
Vasana is something that is ordinarily never there in the conscious Living and takes us by surprise by its surfacing;we then become aware of its existence and deal with it by ensuring that its roots are removed and no further possibility exists for their reappearance.
Now do not take it that I am suggesting to avoid eating of the plant onion and Plant Raddish.I am speaking in metaphorical terms-I mean every Rajasic activity(Argueing endlessly,Projecting oneself,thinking that every other person is dumb)-All other 'Vasanas' are easier to handle but the 'self importance' and 'I am knowledgeable' vasana can only be fixed by a Guru who comes down with a sledge Hammer even when the disciple is not conscious of its presence in himself.
Dear Ravi,

Yes. The vasanas are deeply embedded and one does not know when these would strike us. It is like Hanuman who
suddenly appeared from nowhere and vanquished the ministers, commanders and even Akshyakumara without any
weapons worth the name. Vasana Kshayam needs a Brahmastra - Self Inquiry and  Guru's Grace.

Arunachala Siva.

General Discussion / Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« on: November 24, 2012, 11:51:44 AM »

I am copy pasting some  of the opinions here on Vasanas in the Vasana thread that I have opened .Those views are very enriching ..Kindly share your views there .
"Vasana" is a very important topic as every spiritual seeker is disturbed by it and how to tackle it is what we need the method .
Om Peace .

An Asramam inmate told me: No one can take other's papas and punyas. Sri Bhagavan had told this to the questioner so that he
would be at peace and Sri Bhagavan's assurance that he had cleaned up the slate made him to keep away from papas.

Arunachala Siva.

Subramaniam Sir

Bhagwan's role here in taking that person's punya and papas is purely psychological . But yet the fact it helped relive the other person's feeling of guilt is what matters .
In Christianity there is this concept of confession in the Church to relieve ourself of our Guilt .
In Sanathana Dharma we have the concept of relieving our sins by taking bath in Ganges or Holy river .That is again purely psychological .
 Why go so far , you can go to your local temple ,stand before the deity and confess to it in silence your omissions and commissions and feel a big emotional relief .
Om Peace .

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