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Messages - atmavichar100

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Ashrams / Re: Impressions from travels to Tiruvannamalai
« on: November 23, 2012, 12:54:03 PM »
Dear Jewell, atmavichar100,

Yes. Gazing at His photo with out even a thought or with some mantra within lips is one of the best sadhana.

Incidentally, how many of you look the webcam photo of Arunachala on a day? Once? Twice? Or more?

Arunachala Siva.

Subramaniam Sir

I do not look at the webcam daily but I have downloaded a pic of Arunachala and Bhagwan Ramana in my computer  that I look at it some times but I always visualize Bhagwan Ramana and Arunachala before I start to chant Shiva Sahasranama and Arunachala Akshara Mana Malai .

It was a summer evening, and we were all sitting outside in the open space by the well. Suddenly one of the visitors started weeping bitterly.

'I am a horrible sinner. For a long time I have been coming to you, but there is no change in me. Can I become pure at last? How long am I to wait? When I am here near you, I am good for a time. But when I leave this place, I become a beast again. You cann
ot imagine how bad I can be -- hardly a human being. Am I to remain a sinner forever?'

'Why do you come to me? What have I to do with you?' demanded Bhagavan. 'What is there between us that you should come here and weep and cry in front of me?'

The man started moaning and crying even more, as if his heart were breaking.

'All my hopes of salvation are gone. You were my last refuge and you say you have nothing to do with me! To whom shall I turn now? What am I to do? To whom am I to go?'

Bhagavan watched him for some time and said, 'Am I your Guru that I should be responsible for your salvation? Have I ever said that I am your Master?'

'If you are not my Master, then who is? And who are you, if not my Master? You are my Guru. You are my guardian angel. You must take pity me and release me from my sins!'

He started sobbing and crying again.

We all sat silent, overcome with pity. Only Bhagavan looked alert and matter-of-fact.

'If I am your Guru, what are my fees? Surely you should pay me for my services.'

'But you won't take anything,' cried the visitor. 'What can I give you?'

'Did I ever say that I don't take anything? And did you ever ask me what you can give me?'

'If you would take, then ask me. There is nothing I would not give you.'

'All right. Now I am asking. Give me. What will you give me?'

'Take anything. Everything I have is yours.'

'Then give me all the good you have done in this world.'

'What good could I have done? I have not a single virtue to my credit.'

'You have promised to give. Now give. Don't talk of your credit. Just give away all the good you have done in your past.'

'Yes, I shall give. But how does one give? Tell me how the giving is done and I shall give.'

'Say like this: "All the good I have done in the past I am giving away entirely to my Guru. Henceforth I have no merit from it nor have I any concern with it." Say it with your whole heart.'

'All right, Swami. "I am giving away to you all the good I have done so far, if I have done any, and all its good effects. I am giving it to you gladly, for you are my Master and you are asking me to give it all away to you.'

'But this is not enough,' said Bhagavan sternly.

'I gave you all I have and all you asked me to give. I have nothing more to give.'

'No, you have. Give me all your sins.'

The man looked wildly at Bhagavan, terror stricken.

'You do not know, Swami, what you are asking for. If you knew, you would not ask me. If you take over my sins, your body will rot and burn. You do not know me, you do not know my sins. Please do not ask me for my sins.'

He wept bitterly.

'I shall look after myself. Don't you worry about me,' said Bhagavan. 'All I want from you is your sins.'

For a long time the bargain would not go through. The man refused to part with his sins. But Bhagavan was adamant.

'Either give me your sins along with your merits, or keep both and don't think of me as your Master."

In the end the visitor's scruples broke down and he declared, 'Whatever sins I have done, they are no longer mine. All of them and their results, too, belong to Ramana.'

Bhagavan seemed to be satisfied. 'From now on there is no good nor bad in you. You are just pure. Go and do nothing, either good or bad. Remain yourself. Remain what you are.'

A great peace fell over the man and over us all. No one knows what happened to the fortunate visitor, for he was never seen in the ashram again. He might have had no further need to come.

Practise of Understanding!
not disjoing: Practise , Understanding.

Practise of the understanding.

Thats what you can read in all my posts.

incidentally practise of understanding is called nidhidhyasanam.

Got it . Thanks . BTW has  this  been quoted in Bhagawad Gita / 10 Classical Upanishad about this i.e like in MuktioUpanishad

Absolutely simple message from Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi.

Muktikopanishad says
"Mano-nasha, Vasana-kshaya and Bodha have to be practised continuously for long time"

by mano-nasha it means abiding like a Stone with all attention resolved at its source.
by vasana-kshaya it means remaining indifferent to vasana promptings.
by bodha it means holding onto the understanding that "I AM SELF"

This is my view. These three together have to be practised until it becomes natural.

So Understanding + Practice  :)


I have opened a separate thread  on vasanas for this .Kindly transfer your contents there and share your views .

There is lot of conflict with regard to destruction of Vasanas . Some say Knowledge destroys it , some say practice destroys it , some say a combination of both .Some question the word "destroy" itself . There is lot of conflict in the language of experience school v/s language of understanding school .
I have presented below Bhagwan's short views of the same .

Those who want to elaborate on this can kindly do .

D: Since Realization is not possible without vasana- kshaya, how am I to realise that State in which the vasanas are effectively destroyed?

M: You are in that State now!

D: Does it mean that by holding on to the Self, the vasanas should be destroyed as and when they emerge?

M: They will themselves be destroyed if you remain as
you are.

Vasana Kshaya is advocated very strongly in Muktikopanishad and even Jivan Mukti viveka.
so the importance of Vasana Kshaya and Mano-nasha must be understood.

The problem however is ... what is Vasana ? The fundamental vasana is that i am the body/mind. If this is the vasana, it can only be done away with "i am not the body/mind". The thorn of "i am not the body/mind" has to be used to remove the vasana called "i am body/mind". if i am meditating on "i am not the body/mind" ... it would not be correct for me to say "i am bound". Infact every time the "i am body/mind" vasana makes me feel bound, i counter it by seeing that i am not the body/mind but the Drk of that!

If I keep giving this idea that "I AM bound" importance ...either in the secular or religious sense, then i am actually watering the vasana called "i am the body/mind" !!


This needs a separate thread for discussion . Let us follow it up later in a separate thread .I have started a separate thread on Vasana Kshaya . This was one reason why I asked you to start writing on "Tattva Bodha" that discusses the fundamentals . There is lot of confusion on basic words , confusion in meaning and confusion in their usage . There is a conflict in the language of experience v/s the language of understanding . I am not competent to talk about this issue at this stage .Kindly share your inputs on that thread on "Vasana Kshaya"

Dear Atmavichar,
      :) What you said is perfect :)!
"Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis"

When we do this, even if the teacher is found to have not lived it, the teaching would remain valid within ourselves coz we live it! :)


I have stopped worrying much about teachers behavior .I had to bring out this issue because there was a quote on "knowledge" and "vasanas" and there has been a sort of new age Vedanta /Non duality  movement that says problem is ignorance and solution is "knowledge" and that is enough to take care of everything . I personally have no objection to any sort of theory ( New Age/Old Age ) and everyone has the right to share what they feel . That theory might work for some but I do not belong to that category .
I believe in what Bhagwan said about Vasanas and pointed out as an example of how some leading people failed in spite of having knowledge because they have not worked out on their vasanas .
I have nothing personal against those people and I have no advice for them and leave it to them /almighty to decide how they should go about with their own future .
So I am guided by those pointers I have listed before but I know that is quite a hard work and that is why I am relying on prayer to Lord Shiva /Lord Arunachala in giving me strength to go ahead on this spiritual path without getting trapped through false Gurus and false teachings and spiritual laziness .So far I have been blessed in getting the right people and right teachings in my life and I hope the same will continue in future .I consider this forum to be also a blessing in my life .
Om Peace


For me whats really important is the understanding that changes my life..

I concur with the above quote of yours . In the past i.e many years back I used to get upset when I used to hear these sort of news but  after reading "Living By the Words of Bhagwan " I just smile when I get these sort of news . No doubt I do get upset but I do not allow that to dominate my thinking anymore .

Personally these are what I try to follow in my own life to avoid falling in to such mental traps :
To resist the influence of others, knowledge of oneself is most important -Teal'c

Work out your own salvation. Do not depend on others.-Buddha

Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings -- that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.- Buddha

Mind your business .Attend to what you came for - Bhagwan

Ashrams / Re: Impressions from travels to Tiruvannamalai
« on: November 23, 2012, 07:21:45 AM »
Such is the Power and the Greatness of our Guru,our Father!!!

Dear Jewell , Balaji

Bhagwan needs no formality with regard to how we worship him .We can chant his songs , or chant the Maha Mantra "Arunachala Siva" or just sit in silence in front of his pic .When true devotion is there method of expression does not matter much .
Formality of Satsang is only to see to it that we do not slip down due to the force of Maya .
So invoke Bhagwan in what ever way you feel like . Bhagwan understand our hearts better  .
Om Peace .

All the neo-advaitins and modern day instant vedanta schools commit some sort of mistake like this -- jumping suddenly to Self and overlooking the karma, desires,  moha etc. that one has so far accumulated.  It is very important that one practice detachment and burn his vasanas before he is ready for  a experience of Self.

Dear Kaskat
Even recently 2  famous people one in the tradition of Yoga and other from Tradition of Advaita have been caught for sexual + financial misconduct and are in hiding now . This did not attract Media attention here but their close students and admirers have deserted them seeing their dubious behavior . They feel ashamed to come out now .There was no question of lack of Knowledge for them .They came from Traditional lineage ( one in Yoga and another in Vedanta ) ,well versed in the relevant Scriptures of Yoga and Vedanta and were excellent speakers and also had many books published to their Credit .
Yesterday I came across the following quote of Bhagwan Ramana posted by Nagaraj in another thread and that very aptly summed why some highly knowledgeable people are getting caught in Sexual and financial misconduct .I have given my comments on the other thread also about this .
Knowledge can remain unshaken only after all the vasanas are rooted out - Bhagwan Ramana.

Note : I am not saying all people who are giving lectures on Yoga , Advaita etc are like that . Nor do I say that their lectures and talks are incorrect .Their talks are very correct and still hold true inspite of their misconduct and I still read them because they have presented the vision correctly as the received from their Gurus /lineage .
I have no objection in people presenting Advaita directly i.e advaita without going through intense sadhana .That is their right but I request them to please not make fun of those who are doing Sadhana and Bhakti . The above 2 people were doing exactly that and look where they have landed now . The funny thing is that now they are doing "intense sadhana and invoking God " to come out of this mess . I wish them all the best .
There is enough knowledge in the world right now . My small 1 inch pendrive can accommodate all the Major Scriptures ( text + audio ) and many are now freely available on net for downloading . The problem is not knowledge but living an ethical  integrated life more so if you are taking an open role of preaching /teaching to others .
The mistake these 2 people did has not just affected them but has affected the entire tradition that they represented to such an extent the common people like us has have started questioning them and their relevance more so in the context of many such spiritual people getting now caught with their pants down on TV and Internet .
I still respect the tradition and still respect the knowledge that has been passed on through the tradition but at the end I need to introspect myself how far I am living those teachings in my own day to day life . We definitely need Knowledge + Sadhhana + Bhakti + Grace of Ishwara to lead an ethical ,Integrated life .
Om Peace .

11-1-46 Afternoon
A young man from Colombo asked Bhagavan, “J. Krishnamurti teaches the method of effortless and choiceless awareness as distinct from that of deliberate concentration. Would Sri Bhagavan be pleased to explain how best to practise meditation and what form the object of meditation should take?”

Bhagavan: Effortless and choiceless awareness is our real nature. If we can attain it or
be in that state, it is all right. But one cannot reach it without effort, the effort of deliberate meditation. All the age-long vasanas carry the mind outward and turn it to external objects. All such thoughts have to be given up and the mind turned inward. For that, effort is necessary for most people. Of course everybody, every book says, “Summa iru” i.e., “Be quiet or still”. But it is not easy. That is why all this effort is necessary. Even if we find one who has at once achieved the mauna or Supreme state indicated by “Summa iru”, you may take it that the effort necessary has already been finished in a previous life. So that, effortless and choiceless awareness is reached only after deliberate meditation. That meditation can take any form which appeals to you best. See what helps you to keep away all other thoughts and adopt that method for your meditation.

Source : Exact source not known but I saw it in Ramana Ashram FaceBook page .and putting it as it is

Knowledge can remain unshaken only after all the vasanas are rooted out.


I have seen the fall of few  spiritual people who had expert knowledge of the Yoga / Vedantic Scriptures and also went about preaching it world wide but could not control their vasanas and lived a dubious life in private with the result they have lost most of the respect that they had earned due to their spiritual position  and also with their knowledge of scriptures  . Some of them have had lot of media coverage and hence the damage is enormous but some were lucky to escape the media attention but yet in their own circles of students and admirers  they have lost the trust and respect . I do not know whether they can get back their respect .I wish them all the best .
After reading the above quote I was reminded of those fallen people . But this is also a big reminder to all of us that is good to have sound Scriptural Knowledge but that must be equally backed by an ethical lifestyle more so if you play the role of a teacher / preacher .
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha
Om Peace .

I Wish You All Happy Thanksgiving and Sainth Gabriel's Day! May He Bless us All! With love and prayers,

Thanks Jewell and wish you the same .

Ashrams / Re: Impressions from travels to Tiruvannamalai
« on: November 22, 2012, 06:46:01 PM »

Happy that you found my post encouraging . Keep it up and keep the spirit of Bhagwan in your life in what ever way you want and he will guide you accordingly .
Om Peace .

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