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Messages - atmavichar100

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General Discussion / Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« on: December 17, 2012, 09:57:23 PM »
Further, you see, people speak of the waves as belonging to the
Ganges; but no one says that the Ganges belongs to the waves. The feeling, 'I am He', is not wholesome


In fact the doubt about the Wave/Ocean that I mentioned came when me and my friend were sitting on the Banks of the River Ganges in Rishikesh 2 years back .Seeing the full flow of Ganges we started to discuss no doubt every wave on this Ganges can identity itself with the  full Ganges and say it is also Ganges but what about the strength and energy of Ganges in its totality ,which wave can compare itself to that aspect of Ganges .

Om Peace

General Discussion / Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« on: December 17, 2012, 09:53:29 PM »
The path of knowledge is very difficult. One cannot obtain Knowledge unless one gets rid of the feeling that one is the body(It is not enough to 'think' that one is not body-ravi).

That is the key . One can have a superficial/theoretical  idea that one is not the body / mind but to live that way is quite a challenge .If we admire Bhagwan Ramana it is because he lived that way .

General topics / Re: the myth of jivan muktha
« on: December 17, 2012, 01:42:04 PM »
the myth of jivan muktha


My take is that discussing things like state of a Jnani /Jivan Muktha , fate of a Jnani /Jivan Muktha , past life , after life etc etc will never bring in any consensus as there is always varied opinions on the same .

You yourself have provided answer for this
It is a mystery.  We can never solve it.

That is why Bhagavan Raman never spoke of any other person's state -- he knew for sure, we will likely misunderstand the whole thing.

In the past I was also digging in to the lives of various saints ,checking who was enlightened , who was not , is there a degree in the levels of enlightenment or not etc etc and later found that digging in to these questions were not helping me in anyway and after reading "Living by the words of Bhagwan" stopped probing in to these sort of things as Bhagwan says time and again points out  "Mind your business and attend to what you came for Primarily " .Moreover  I feel "Existence" is too large and complex for any taking any concrete and standard ,fixed idea about how things must be .

Om Peace


For the above question the answer below is given and sometimes  instead of Bubble the example Wave/Ocean is given .

Bubble is the ocean.
Bubble never was separate.
The problem is that it took itself to be a "bubble" and is suffering.
Ego is to take yourself ot be the bubble!

But the next question asked is Bubble /wave is similar in substance with Ocean but differs in their strength i.e strength and energy of a wave is different from strength and energy of Ocean .
I have no answer for this .I was discussing this with a friend of mine and both of us could not get an answer  :) So would be happy if others can share the answer to this question i.e Wave is similar to Ocean in essence but differs in its strength and energy ,so is the analogy right ?

General topics / Tiruppavai-Discussion
« on: December 16, 2012, 02:26:16 PM »

Sri Subramaniam Sir has opened a thread on Thiruppavai on the auspicious day of starting of Margazhi Season today i,e Sun 16 Dec 2012 and Sri Ravi is also giving the explanation of verses based on the talks of Sage TGN which he has listened to and I do not want to disturb that thread for asking any doubts / discussion of the same and hence opening a new thread for the same .
So let us share our doubts and opinion in this thread without disturbing the other thread and leave it free to Sri Ravi to share his thoughts whenever he feels comfortable doing so .

Om Peace .

General topics / Re: Tiruppavai.
« on: December 16, 2012, 11:11:07 AM »
Thanks to Kanchi Mahaswami, this practice is even now there in Tamizh houses and also in Tamizh knowing Karnataka Sri Vaishnavas.

Yes very true that Sri Kanchi Mahaswami was the main force behind the Thiruppavai and Thiruvembavi revival in Tamil Nadu .

I request Sri Ravi to cover each song on a day and complete the work by the end of Margazhi month. I am sure he will oblige since he is the right person to give such posts on Tiruppavai.
Me too would be happy to have a more than literal meaning of these verses .
I am right now learning it using Sulamangalam Sisters Audio for Thiruppavai and Sri Dharmapuram Swaminathan's Audio for Thiruvempavai .

Om Peace .

Health & Welfare Issues / Re: Extensive Power Cuts in Tamil Nadu
« on: December 14, 2012, 09:18:23 PM »

Extensive Power Cuts in Tamil Nadu

The biggest Sadhana for people in Tamil Nadu especially in Tier-2 and Tier-3 cities is to cope up with this massive  and unpredictable power cuts . Right now till Feb 2013 it is Ok as the day time temperature is not much but and people do not use much A/Cs and fans but come March 2013 when the temperature shoots up we will see a massive usage of power and more frequent power cuts .In cities though more power is there ,during summer there will be low voltage to such an extent most of heavy appliances wont be able to be used and also the transformers will be getting frequently burnt out unable to cope up with the load .
The Tamil Nadu CM has promised that the situation will be set right by Dec 2013 so we need to be prepared for some harsh times for 1 more year until some solution comes .
We just need to wait and watch .

General Discussion / Re: PSEUDO-VEDANTIC STUDENT - Swami Sivananda
« on: December 13, 2012, 01:04:23 PM »
The following 2 quotes of Mark Twain is very apt in the context of a Pseudo Vedantic student .
The first quote warns us not to talk or argue with anyone if we have half baked knowledge and the second quote warns us to keep away from such people in case we encounter them . In some dialogues of Bhagwan Ramana I have seem many such people coming to him and arguing with him foolishly and Bhagwan would remain silent and after that person left Bhagwan would say that it is foolish to argue with such people .

1)Better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt - Mark Twain .

2) Never argue with stupid people , they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with their experience - Mark Twain

Om Peace

General topics / Re: sad news
« on: December 12, 2012, 09:43:14 PM »
Latha Ji

Sorry for this sad news in your family . Swami Sivananda advise people to chant "Maha Mritunjaya Mantra "  for the departed soul to rest in peace and also to give strength to the family that have lost their dear one and I will also do the same for your departed brother in law and his family .

Here is a link to the Chant of Maha Mritunjaya Mantra on Youtube

Apart from Maha Mritunjaya Mantra , Chanting of Chapter -8 of Bhagwad Gita is also recommended for the departed soul to rest in peace .
Om Peace .

General Discussion / Re: PSEUDO-VEDANTIC STUDENT - Swami Sivananda
« on: December 09, 2012, 02:11:42 PM »
Dear atmavichar100,

Nice write up from Swami Sivananda on pseudo vedantic students. Yes. There are people like that.

Arunachala Siva.

True Subramaniam Sir

If at all there is disgust for Vedanta and Scriptural Study today among spiritual aspirants it is due to the behavior of these sort  of Vedantic Students/Teachers  who act like "Conversion Missionaries/ Forced Marketing Agents " in constantly forcing people for argument , ridiculing their beliefs , their practices , their bhakti and devotion to their Guru /Ishta Devata in order to sell their Vedantic beliefs .
I have known personally a well read Vedanta Student who was part of our Satsang and Retreat Group and his behavior was similar to this Pseudo Vedantic student and initially we tolerated  but later his behavior became so intolerant  and repulsive that people told that if he is going to talk  in the satsang or come for our retreat we are not coming and he had to be kept out and he was isolated  and he is all alone now .
But I have also seen some wonderful Vedanta Student and Teachers who always keep quiet and will only talk when asked to and will give answer respecting the situation and maturity of the student and even when they talk Vedanta they will talk from a "heart perspective" as most of the people attending these satsang and retreats are Grihastas who do not have time for full time spirituality and scriptural study and their answers will be soothing and motivating for the audience to ask them more questions and create Genuine interest in them in attending such satsangs regularly . Adi Shankara in his Bhaja Govindam says "Satsangha is the starting point for Jivan Mukti" and Bhagwan Ramana also echoed the same but unfortunately some of these Pseudo Vedantic Students and Teachers have spoiled the potential interest of many common people's interest in spirituality by their arrogant behavior in the name of "talking the highest truth "  to common people .

Subramniam Sir

The following statement of Sadhu Om in David's blog I found about Vallalar informing about arrival of Bhagwan Ramana but I cant find which verse is this from Thiru Arutpa .
One thing we must notice , after 3 years after Rama Linga Swamigal dematerialized , Bhagwan Ramana was born and in one of his famous sermons delivered in the near end of his life  he did mention that the same teachings ( i.e Universal Brotherhood ) will soon be talked about another person and people from all over the world ( from Europe , Russia , America etc )  will come to meet him and receive the teachings .

Question: Did anyone predict the birth of Bhagavan?

Sadhu Om: Ramalinga Swami [a 19th century Tamil saint] sung in verse, shortly before he passed away [in 1877] ‘O men, the time is fast approaching when my Lord [Siva] will come on earth’.

General Discussion / PSEUDO-VEDANTIC STUDENT - Swami Sivananda
« on: December 09, 2012, 11:38:42 AM »
PSEUDO-VEDANTIC STUDENT from the book Vedanta For Beginners  by Swami Sivananda
A young aspirant says: “I have taste for Vedanta only. I do not like either Bhakti or Karma
Yoga. They are far inferior to Vedanta. Only Vedanta elevates me.
Only Vedanta inspires me and
raises me to the magnanimous heights of Divine Splendour and Glory.”
This foolish Vedantic student is like the greedy typhoid patient with ulcers in his bowels,
who wants to eat and says, “I have taste for sweetmeats. I want to eat them now.” What will be the result if he eats Rasagullas and Laddus at this stage? The bowels will rupture and he will die of
bleeding from the bowels or intestinal haemorrhage immediately.
He is also like the patient who selects himself a medicine from the almirah, Liquor
Arsenicalis or Tr. of Opium, and says, “I like this medicine only. I want to taste this now.” What
will happen if he tastes this medicine without consulting the doctor? He will die of arsenical or
opium poisoning. He does not know the dose of the medicine. Instead of taking a few drops he may
take them in a large quantity and give up his vital breath at once. It is the doctor alone who can select the right medicine for the patient.
Everybody cannot want to become a Commissioner or District Collector or Governor
without possessing the necessary qualifications. Can anyone become an M.A., Ph.D., without
undergoing the course for Matriculation, F.A. and B.A.?
It is the Guru alone who can select the right type of Yoga for the aspirant and right kind of
books for him.
He knows the degree of evolution of the student and he alone can chalk out the right path for the aspirant. He will ask him to study first Atma-Bodha, Tattva-Bodha,
Atma-Anatma-Viveka. But the raw self-willed student goes to the library and at once takes up the
highly advanced books, Yoga-Vasishtha and Brahma-Sutras, for his study!
He becomes a
pseudo-Vedantin or lip-Vedantin within six months and enters into discussions with elderly

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. After studying Yoga-Vasishtha and the Karikas on
Mandukya Upanishad for six months, he says: “There is no world in the three periods of time.
Aham Brahma Asmi—Sivoham—Sivah Kevaloham.” He is puffed up with empty pride, vanity and
hollowness, and walks in the streets with his head erect.
He will never make any prostration to
elderly Sannyasis and Sadhus, but chant the formula very often, “Sivoham, Sivoham.”
Such aspirants are formidable Asuras on this earth. They are a great burden on this earth.
They pollute the atmosphere and create dissensions and quarrels everywhere, by entering into heated debates with sincere devotees and Karma Yogis. They cannot prosper in the spiritual path.
Vedanta in the hands of raw and unregenerate persons who lack purity and devotion and
who have not removed the impurity of their hearts through untiring selfless service with
Atma-Bhava and Kirtan and prayer, is perilous.
It is like a sharp razor in the hands of a child.
Instead of expanding their hearts the Vedantic study will thicken and fatten their egoism. They fall
into the deep abyss of ignorance. There is no hope, for them, of being lifted up, as their heart is filled with foolish, Tamasic, obstinacy, false Vedantic pride and self-superiority and false Tushti
May this land be free from such impotent, pseudo lip-Vedantins! May this world abound
with real Vedantins like Dattatreya, Yajnavalkya and Sankara!

No Waste:

Apart from Bhagwan the other person who refused to waste anything in his Ashram was Mahatma Gandhi .
We cant follow exactly like Bhagwan /Gandhi but can do our best to avoid wastage as much as possible -wastage of food /electricity /stationary/Clothes etc Many people in die still die of hunger ( lack of food ) , many places still have no electricity , many children do not have proper access to school and even if they have access to schools they cant afford to buy notebooks , pencils ,pens etc and many people still do not have proper clothes to wear .
So at least we must avoid wasting the above things as much as possible or at least be able to donate the excess we have to others in need .
Om Peace .

Happy to come across this Old post of Saint Ramalinga Swamigal .
I see lot of similarities between Ramalinga Swamigal and Bhagwan Ramana

1) Both never had a formal Guru
2) Both never wore Ochre robes and were wearing white
3) Both composed the best of their hyms in Classical Tamil .
4) Both addressed God as their Father - Bhagwan Ramana called Father Arunachala and Ramalinga Swamigal called God as My father Arutperum Jyoti Andavar
5) Both have similar Maha Mantras that are used as refrains in their poems .
Bhagwan : Arunchala Siva Arunchala Siva
                   Arunchala Siva Arunachala
Ramalinga Swamigal : Arutperum Jyothi Arutperum Jyothi
                                   Thaniperum Karunai Arutperum Jyothi
6) The Deepam on Arunachala is nothing but Arutperum Jyothi of Ramalinga Swamigal
7) Both of them had high regard for Thiruvachagam , Manicka Vachagar , Jnana Sambandar
so like that one can go on .

But there are some differences also like

1)Bhagwan Ramana was a pure Advaita and Rama Linga Swamigal's Philosophy is something unqiue i.e neither adviata or saiva siddhantha but something in between them .I am really not sure what his real Philosophy is . Can anyone say what his Philosophy is ?
2) Bhagwan Ramana had highest respect for Vedas and Vedic Chanting etc but Rama Linga Swamigal was quite anti Vedic ,anti Brahmin and he had lot of problem with the Chidambaram Temple over the Vedic method of worship there and hence he decided to start his own Temple at Vadalur . The anti Vedic tone of some of  Ramalinga Swamigal's songs are not directly against Vedas but against the behavior of Vedic Brahmins .
3) Ramalinga Swamigal was a sort of Siddha and he believed in Transmuting the body from decaying .Bhagwan Ramana never believed in such sort of Body Immortality .But Ramalinga Swamigal was not a Yoga Siddha but a Jnana Siddha .

Sadhu Om has said that Ramalinga Swamigal has hinted in his Arutpa Songs about the arrival of Bhagwan  Ramana but I do not know which Sing he has hinted .If anyone can find out that song it would be useful .

General topics / Re: Tamil Scriptures
« on: December 08, 2012, 08:42:53 AM »

அரவம் ஆட்டேல்-----Sound not noise------->Spread not Dischord.

ஆட்டேல்---->This word means to 'sound,Vibrate,Shake' etc.Avvaiyar 's words carry many shades of meaning-herein,avvaiyar is referring to 'wilful' spreading.
One may unintentionally say something that may lead to Dischord.
In this maxim,avvaiyar is referring to wilful,habitual spreading of Dischord.


Thanks Ravi

This meaning sounds quite sensible than shaking snakes .

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