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Messages - atmavichar100

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1966
General topics / Re: Tamil Scriptures
« on: December 07, 2012, 01:25:25 PM »
Atmavichar/Friends,

"Everybody belongs to Pillaiyar and Pillaiyar belongs to everyone. He is related to the poor and downtrodden too. Even unread people and poor urchins have a direct access to this 'common man's God'. The 'sidaru thengai' are meant for poor children mainly. They have a right over the pieces of coconut so distributed in His presence. As an infant-God, He is very popular with children. He is also very close to woman folk, as He is very dear to the Mother's instinct in every woman. As Avvai Paatti is a woman, they have a direct special right on this sloka. So, it is in the rightness of things that, woman and children, should all learn this 'Vinayagar Agaval'. You need not worry if the meaning is somewhat difficult and the pronounciation in places is slightly tough. Avvaiyar's words have the power to directly appeal to the inner self. By the time it becomes committed to memory, the import will be known to your heart! That will benefit the family, community, country and the world at large!
Say there is a beautiful box containing gems but whose key has been misplaced. Will we forsake the box for this reason? 'Let the key be found in its time'. In the meanwhile, we will keep the box very safe, 'is it not so? As otherwise, even if the key is found later, there will be no gain! Vinayagar Agawal, is such a box of Yoga Sastra gems. It does not matter if we presently do not have the necessary understanding and grasp. We will keep chanting it. Slowly the inner meanings will reveal itself. Pillaiyar will grant us the 'key' of understanding."

Kanchi mahaswami on vinayakar agaval

Ravi

Thanks for Kanchi Mahaswami's words on Vinayakar Aghaval .I have read it before and feel good to reread it again .
There was a time I was worried that I did not understand the meaning of some Tamil Works like Thiruvachagam , Thevaram ,Aghaval , Siddhar Padalgal etc and whatever meaning I read from available sources were not quite convincing or appealing to me , added to it was my lack of proper knowledge of classical Tamil . Then an elderly  relative of mine who actually belongs to a Mystical Cult but they follow the Siddha Lineage and they strictly follow the Tamil works and he said that one can never understand these verses from books and one needs the Guidance of a relaized master for the same .He will never give meaning for the verses but will throw some questions to me  as a "zen koan" and ask me to dwell on it . His basic thing is you need to make yourself "eligible" for receiving the meaning and the problem is that everyone expects things to be handed over on the plate like ordering food in the hotel  :)
For eg : The 2 verses of Vinaygar Aghaval I remember he gave me many years back and asked me to contemplate on the same and still now I have not got the final meaning  :)
சத்தத்தின் உள்ளே சதாசிவம் காட்டிச்
சித்தத்தின் உள்ளே சிவலிங்கம் காட்டி

But he told me that the first step to make yourself eligible to get the meaning of any holy  text is to daily chant it or write it daily and  and have it stored in your memory and sow the seeds there and keep it nourishing daily and later it will grow and give you the fruits at the right time .
He was echoing the same as what Kanchi Paramacharya did only that he was quite blunt with regard to not giving the meaning .
I am right now doing the same for Bhagwan's Tamil works as well as other classical works in Tamil/Sanskrit .
Om Peace .

1967
The scriptures serve to indicate the existence of the Higher Power or Self and to point the way to It. That is their essential purpose. Apart from that they are useless. However, they are voluminous, in order to be adapted to the level of development of every seeker.

As a man rises in the scale he finds the stages already attained to be only stepping stones to higher stages, until finally the goal is reached. When that happens, the goal alone remains and everything else, including the scriptures, become useless.

The intricate maze of philosophy of the various schools is said to clarify matters and to reveal the Truth, but in fact it creates confusion where none need exist. To understand anything there must be the Self. The Self is obvious, so why not remain as the Self? What need to explain the non-self?

I was indeed fortunate that I never took to it (i.e. philosophy).
Had I taken to it I would probably be nowhere; but my inherent tendencies led me directly to inquire ‘Who am I?’ How fortunate!



From, The Teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi in His Own Words, Chapter 1


1968
General topics / Re: Tamil Scriptures
« on: December 07, 2012, 12:55:00 PM »
Quote
அரவம் ஆட்டேல்.
Do not pick and shake the snakes.

Can someone explain this ? First of all one needs Guts to even touch a snake ,leave alone picking it up and shaking it .



1969
General topics / Re: Tamil Scriptures
« on: December 07, 2012, 12:51:12 PM »
Dear atmavichar100 and Nagaraj,

Sattham + sound. In Siva Raja Yogam, when the kundalini rises almost to reach the crown, one would hear various sounds,
one being the sound of anklets of Nataraja. Manikkavachagar says one hears the sound conch shell, water falls, bell ringing etc.,.


Sittham = Heart. At that time simultaneously one experiences Siva Lingam in Heart.

Not only sound, one gets the taste of milk, honey, sugarcane juice etc. in the tongue. This is kanumutri ninra karumbulle kaatti...
the ripe sugar cane from which the juice oozes out! 

This is called Sadasiva Yogam.

Arunachala Siva.
 

Thanks Subramaniam Sir

There is a book called "Siddhargal Illakiyam" by Mi.Pa.Somu and that has lot of explanation for Vinayakar Aghaval and I will have to go through it again . It is a long time I read it  regularly and I once wrote it daily mainly times as a Sadhana . Good to be back to Vinayakar Aghaval but the thing is Vinaygar Aghaval is Yoga Sastra and while it has its own merits I feel it conflicts with Bhagwan Ramana's Vichara Marga where things like Kundalini , Chakras etc are not given importance .

1970
Quote
D: I am business man. How shall I get on with the business and get peace of mind also?

Maharshi: This is also a thought. Give up this thought also and remain as your true Self.

D: It is said, 'do your duty without any expectation of results.'  How shall I get that frame of mind?

Maharshi: You need not aspire for or get any new state. Get rid of your present thoughts, that is all.

...........

D: God must enable us to get rid of the other thoughts....

M: This is again a thought. Let that which has incarnated raise the question. You are not that because you are free
from thoughts.

Talks 472).

After reading this ,I was reminded of a dialogue I had with a direct disciple of Sri Nisardatta Maharaj /Sri Ranjit Maharaj from Mumbai few years back over Phone .I did not meet him personally and in fact lost touch with him but that one conversation was similar to Bhagwan's conversation as mentioned above .
All my doubts and queries that I was raising , he was pointing back to "That is only a thought" , do not give it too much importance .
Only yesterday after a long gap I was re-reading  a book by Sri .Ranjit Maharj "Illusion V/S Reality Vol-2" that he sent me ,which is a book of dialogues with Sri Ranjit Maharaj and most of the dialogues in that book are similar to the tone of Bhagwan Ramana i.e redirecting ourselves to our source and not to get trapped in our thoughts and concepts .

Om Peace .

1971
Quote
Disciple.: Are there any signs to indicate the aspirants
progress towards Self realisation?

Bhagwan Ramana: The degree of freedom from unwanted thoughts
and the degree of concentration on a single thought
are the measure to gauge the progress

This is one of the most excellent Pointers from Bhagwan .

1972
General topics / Re: Quotes of Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
« on: December 07, 2012, 08:14:37 AM »
Quote
Q:   My Guru is Sri Babaji. What is your opinion of him?

M:  What a question to ask! The space in Bombay is asked what is its opinion of the space in Poona. The names differ, but not the space. The word ‘Babaji’ is merely as address. Who lives under the address? You ask questions when you are in trouble. Enquire who is giving trouble and to whom

 :)

1973
General topics / Re: Tamil Scriptures
« on: December 06, 2012, 07:07:06 PM »
The following 2 verses in Vinayaka Aghaval are very mystical and I doubt whether a normal human mind can understand the deep import of these verses .
Quote
சத்தத்தின் உள்ளே சதாசிவம் காட்டிச்
சித்தத்தின் உள்ளே சிவலிங்கம் காட்டி

1974
General Discussion / Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« on: December 05, 2012, 09:22:12 PM »
Quote
Dear Sri Tushnim, both Sri Ramakrishna Param Hamsa as well as Sri Bhagwan, our two great Masters, do not consider study of scriptures as essential to Realisation. I do not understand why you  cannot accept this simple fact.

My take regarding study of Scriptures :

I discussed this personally with a Traditional Teacher of Advaita and he said that traditionally students are required to study the 3 main sources of Advaitic Texts : 1) Bhagavad Gita 2) Ten Major Upanishads and 3) Brahma Sutra plus lots of other Prakarna Granthas like Viveka Chudamani , Atma Bodha , Upadesa Saram , Tattva Bodha etc etc

But he said that since maturity of each student is different , some may inspite of reading all the above texts might still be confused and not clear and some  mature students may after studying a simple text Atma Bodha , Upadesa Saram or even a minor Upanishad like Keno Upanishad might feel they have had their doubts cleared and feel no more inclined to study further texts and go away and the teacher will definitely welcome such a step . But if such a student wants to convey / teach Scriptures to others then he must have a solid knowledge of all the above texts as understanding the truth for one's own self is different from able to convey to others in a proper methodology .
So for personal clarity there is no compulsion to study all those texts .

The question is not what you read ( i.e Upanishads  , Ramana's works , Ramakrishna Works etc ) , how much you read but what have you assimilated or understood  or how much clear you are . So it all boils to a students maturity and his coming in contact with the right teacher or right book that answers his doubts .
So we can never standardize saying one should read or not read scriptures as each and every individual vary with regard to their spiritual maturity . That is one reason we have  Adi Shankara write lot of works called Prakarna Granthas like Upadesa Sahasri ( 1000 verses ) to Eka Sloki ( 1 verse ) and even Bhagwan Ramana wrote Upadesa Saram , Sar Darshanam and translated Adi Shankara's Atma Bodham , Dakshinamurti Stotram etc in Tamil  and Muruganar wrote tons of pages in classical Tamil on Bhagwan Ramana's Upadesa . What is the need for Muruganar to write so many pages in classical Tamil  when Bhagwan's main message is just "Silence "? How many people are competent to understand that "Silence" of Bhagwan ?
By the way I have seen people who are against studying  Traditional Scriptures keep volumes of books  and CDs of their favorite teacher and keep reading them daily or listening to them daily like scriptures . If those Books can give better explanation or clarity to them it is fine but there are some people who feel that they get that clarity by reading Traditional scriptures and not through other teachers and we need to respect that also.

So in conclusion :
 Let those who want to study traditional scriptures study and those who do not want to study  need not study and we must respect both . Ultimately we cannot force anyone to do something that they are not naturally inclined to do or interested to do .

Om Peace .

1975
General Discussion / 12 Steps for "Inner Silence"
« on: December 05, 2012, 07:20:02 PM »

Few Months back I got the following 12 Steps for "Inner Silence" from a friend of mine by email .I do not know of its source but I found it quite useful and practical and sharing it here . I do agree that  following all is not possible but we can try our best .
In another thread there was a discussion on Solitude for spiritual sadhana and I felt that we need to make the best use of our own available resources at home to create such a situation and hence sharing this .


1) Turn off the TV, Internet  and keep them off and perhaps stop reading the news as well.Use them only for functional purpose .

2) Limit or cease your intake of alcohol, don't do any drugs, stop smoking and watch your diet by starting to eat lots of raw fruits and vegetables i.e keep it as much sattvic as possible . Avoid as much as possible fast food and processed food .

3) Practice some form of meditation, contemplation or silent yoga: every day as a discipline.

4) Get plenty of sleep, at least 7-8 hours per night of gentle, uninterrupted sleep.( Many people have guilt with regard to sound sleep but in modern context sound sleep is necessary for good health and it is very useful to be productive the next day . )

5) Get in touch with nature: watch the sunrise or sunset, the clouds, the waves, listen to the birds. (This is tough in a City Environment which is a concrete jungle but try visiting a park nearby to be in touch with nature walk you way to buy daily fruits and vegetables daily instead of buying it in bulk once a week and storing it in refrigerator .At least you will have a feel of the fresh fruits and vegetables .)

6) Read some of the works of spiritual masters or teachers or Holy Texts ( like Bhagavad Gita ,Day by Day with Bhagwan  ,Gospel of Ramakrishna etc etc . You can also listen to good audio spiritual talks) .

7) Accept the fact that the past, your past is gone, dead, finished and has no control over you at all.

8 ) Forgive anyone and everyone who has hurt you in your life.

9) Seek out those you have hurt in life and ask their understanding and maybe their forgiveness but accept the fact that they might not offer you any kindness.

10) Accept the fact that "you" have absolutely no control over what the next moment or anything in the future will bring.

11) Accept the fact that NOW is the only reality: get in touch with what that really means.

12) Let go of everything you have ever learned, known or believed true, including your religious belief, your political affiliation, your social status and anything and everything that people, living and dead have told you about yourself. Instead find an answer to the question, "Who am I"? The sincere answer to that question is your freedom and the discovery of pure silence.

Om Peace .

1976
General Discussion / Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« on: December 05, 2012, 06:56:57 PM »

1977
Subramanian,
Thanks very much.This post from the writings of Sri Ganesan reveal how physical seclusion was also part and parcel of the Sadhana of devotees like Annamalai Swami.Unless one has moved with these great souls,just by reading books that carry their teachings in words will not lead to a true understanding of the Essence of Practice..
More on this later.
Namaskar.

Physical Seclusion is necessary for success in any activity and definitely for success in "Self Knowledge" , that is the reason why Saints in the past choose Himalayas and other forest areas for their seclusion , sadhana and study ,why even teaching their students . Swami Sivananda started Divine Life Society in Rishikesh only for that purpose ( now Rishikesh is quite overcrowded than it was in 1930s when he started ) and Swami Tapovan went further higher and set up his small Kutir in Uttar Kashi and people like Swami Chinmayananda went to him to study there .
At the same time all senior saints did point out that it is futile to keep searching for seclusion to start one's spiritual journey and they advised people to make use of their available place itself to do their sadhana and that is why Brahma Muhurta time was prescribed for early morning sadhana .
In this regard I read Annamalai Swamy's account where he was complaining to Bhagwan about lack of proper facilities to do his Sadhana ( i.e seclusion , food etc ) and Bhagwan told him that if he keeps waiting for such a situation , he will have to take one more birth .

So in conclusion : Seclusion is a blessing for one's sadhana , study ,contemplation but if one does not get it then best way is to retire to bed early and use the morning Brahma Muhurta time for doing one's sadhana /study etc .

Om Peace .

1978
Quote
Swami: Such a man will only say that the source from which he came comes are his parents.

Bhagavan: He cannot be such an ignoramus, as you started by saying, he was a Sadhaka in this line already.

 :)

1979
General topics / Re: Quotes from Shankaracharya's
« on: December 05, 2012, 10:46:00 AM »
Ishwara knows what is best for everyone. If He is pleased there is nothing else to be accomplished by a devotee. - Sri Sri Bharati Tirtha Mahaswamigal

1980
The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Sadhana Tips
« on: December 03, 2012, 06:16:44 PM »
Thanks for the information Sri Atmavichar,

There are 2 known english books, one by By A. Narasimha Bhatt is said to be the best available book in english, but unfortunately has been out of publication or unavailable for few years now. The other is Dim Tims Muses Translation Explanation Commentry of Dvgs Mankuthimmana Kagga by Sampath, Ra Shi which is also slowly running out of stock lately, but is good enough to assimilate the essence. This is the book that i have, apart one book in kannada.

Meanwhile, you can refer these sites, they are slowly updating the verses day by day
-

http://wordsofwisdom.in/mankutimmanakagga/



Thanks Nagarj for the link , I went through some links but they had only the Kannada Version . It is good to have the English Translation .

Om Peace .

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