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Messages - atmavichar100

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1951
General Discussion / PSEUDO-VEDANTIC STUDENT - Swami Sivananda
« on: December 09, 2012, 11:38:42 AM »
PSEUDO-VEDANTIC STUDENT from the book Vedanta For Beginners  by Swami Sivananda
A young aspirant says: “I have taste for Vedanta only. I do not like either Bhakti or Karma
Yoga. They are far inferior to Vedanta. Only Vedanta elevates me.
Only Vedanta inspires me and
raises me to the magnanimous heights of Divine Splendour and Glory.”
This foolish Vedantic student is like the greedy typhoid patient with ulcers in his bowels,
who wants to eat and says, “I have taste for sweetmeats. I want to eat them now.” What will be the result if he eats Rasagullas and Laddus at this stage? The bowels will rupture and he will die of
bleeding from the bowels or intestinal haemorrhage immediately.
He is also like the patient who selects himself a medicine from the almirah, Liquor
Arsenicalis or Tr. of Opium, and says, “I like this medicine only. I want to taste this now.” What
will happen if he tastes this medicine without consulting the doctor? He will die of arsenical or
opium poisoning. He does not know the dose of the medicine. Instead of taking a few drops he may
take them in a large quantity and give up his vital breath at once. It is the doctor alone who can select the right medicine for the patient.
Everybody cannot want to become a Commissioner or District Collector or Governor
without possessing the necessary qualifications. Can anyone become an M.A., Ph.D., without
undergoing the course for Matriculation, F.A. and B.A.?
It is the Guru alone who can select the right type of Yoga for the aspirant and right kind of
books for him.
He knows the degree of evolution of the student and he alone can chalk out the right path for the aspirant. He will ask him to study first Atma-Bodha, Tattva-Bodha,
Atma-Anatma-Viveka. But the raw self-willed student goes to the library and at once takes up the
highly advanced books, Yoga-Vasishtha and Brahma-Sutras, for his study!
He becomes a
pseudo-Vedantin or lip-Vedantin within six months and enters into discussions with elderly
aspirants.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. After studying Yoga-Vasishtha and the Karikas on
Mandukya Upanishad for six months, he says: “There is no world in the three periods of time.
Aham Brahma Asmi—Sivoham—Sivah Kevaloham.” He is puffed up with empty pride, vanity and
hollowness, and walks in the streets with his head erect.
He will never make any prostration to
elderly Sannyasis and Sadhus, but chant the formula very often, “Sivoham, Sivoham.”
Such aspirants are formidable Asuras on this earth. They are a great burden on this earth.
They pollute the atmosphere and create dissensions and quarrels everywhere, by entering into heated debates with sincere devotees and Karma Yogis. They cannot prosper in the spiritual path.
Vedanta in the hands of raw and unregenerate persons who lack purity and devotion and
who have not removed the impurity of their hearts through untiring selfless service with
Atma-Bhava and Kirtan and prayer, is perilous.
It is like a sharp razor in the hands of a child.
Instead of expanding their hearts the Vedantic study will thicken and fatten their egoism. They fall
into the deep abyss of ignorance. There is no hope, for them, of being lifted up, as their heart is filled with foolish, Tamasic, obstinacy, false Vedantic pride and self-superiority and false Tushti
(satisfaction).
May this land be free from such impotent, pseudo lip-Vedantins! May this world abound
with real Vedantins like Dattatreya, Yajnavalkya and Sankara!

1952
Quote
No Waste:

Apart from Bhagwan the other person who refused to waste anything in his Ashram was Mahatma Gandhi .
We cant follow exactly like Bhagwan /Gandhi but can do our best to avoid wastage as much as possible -wastage of food /electricity /stationary/Clothes etc Many people in die still die of hunger ( lack of food ) , many places still have no electricity , many children do not have proper access to school and even if they have access to schools they cant afford to buy notebooks , pencils ,pens etc and many people still do not have proper clothes to wear .
So at least we must avoid wasting the above things as much as possible or at least be able to donate the excess we have to others in need .
Om Peace .

1953
Happy to come across this Old post of Saint Ramalinga Swamigal .
I see lot of similarities between Ramalinga Swamigal and Bhagwan Ramana

1) Both never had a formal Guru
2) Both never wore Ochre robes and were wearing white
3) Both composed the best of their hyms in Classical Tamil .
4) Both addressed God as their Father - Bhagwan Ramana called Father Arunachala and Ramalinga Swamigal called God as My father Arutperum Jyoti Andavar
5) Both have similar Maha Mantras that are used as refrains in their poems .
Bhagwan : Arunchala Siva Arunchala Siva
                   Arunchala Siva Arunachala
Ramalinga Swamigal : Arutperum Jyothi Arutperum Jyothi
                                   Thaniperum Karunai Arutperum Jyothi
6) The Deepam on Arunachala is nothing but Arutperum Jyothi of Ramalinga Swamigal
7) Both of them had high regard for Thiruvachagam , Manicka Vachagar , Jnana Sambandar
so like that one can go on .

But there are some differences also like

1)Bhagwan Ramana was a pure Advaita and Rama Linga Swamigal's Philosophy is something unqiue i.e neither adviata or saiva siddhantha but something in between them .I am really not sure what his real Philosophy is . Can anyone say what his Philosophy is ?
2) Bhagwan Ramana had highest respect for Vedas and Vedic Chanting etc but Rama Linga Swamigal was quite anti Vedic ,anti Brahmin and he had lot of problem with the Chidambaram Temple over the Vedic method of worship there and hence he decided to start his own Temple at Vadalur . The anti Vedic tone of some of  Ramalinga Swamigal's songs are not directly against Vedas but against the behavior of Vedic Brahmins .
3) Ramalinga Swamigal was a sort of Siddha and he believed in Transmuting the body from decaying .Bhagwan Ramana never believed in such sort of Body Immortality .But Ramalinga Swamigal was not a Yoga Siddha but a Jnana Siddha .


Sadhu Om has said that Ramalinga Swamigal has hinted in his Arutpa Songs about the arrival of Bhagwan  Ramana but I do not know which Sing he has hinted .If anyone can find out that song it would be useful .

1954
General topics / Re: Tamil Scriptures
« on: December 08, 2012, 08:42:53 AM »
Krishna/Friends,

Quote
அரவம் ஆட்டேல்-----Sound not noise------->Spread not Dischord.

ஆட்டேல்---->This word means to 'sound,Vibrate,Shake' etc.Avvaiyar 's words carry many shades of meaning-herein,avvaiyar is referring to 'wilful' spreading.
One may unintentionally say something that may lead to Dischord.
In this maxim,avvaiyar is referring to wilful,habitual spreading of Dischord.

Namaskar.

Thanks Ravi

This meaning sounds quite sensible than shaking snakes .

1955
General Discussion / Re: Teachings of Sri Ramakrishna
« on: December 08, 2012, 08:41:02 AM »
Quote
Krishna(atmavichar),
The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna was written by M(Sri Mahendranath Gupta) who was an intimate householder disciple of Sri Ramakrishna.You may find a good deal of information on M and the way he wrote this great classic as Sri Sri Ramakrishna kathamrita in Bengali, in The Rough Notebook thread.

M,The Apostle and Evangelist is the English translation of Sri Ma Darshan -a set of 16 volumes of M's talks by his devotee and associate,Sri jagabandhu(who later became Swami Nityatmananda).Here is a short note on Swami Nityatmananda:

"SWAMI NITYATMANANDA was a learned sannyasin-bhakta of Sri Ramakrishna. He served the Ramakrishna Maths and Missions at Calcutta, Madras and Deogarh Vidyapeeth.

Since his early youth, he had the privilege of sitting at the feet of M. for several years. During that period, he recorded the talks of M. [Mahendranath Gupta], an intimate house-holder disciple of Sri Ramakrishna and the renowned writer of the 'Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna.'

M. heard these readings from his diary in Bengali and made corrections at places. SRI MA DARSHAN, is a compilation of these diaries, which comprises 16 volumes. This work is the result of twenty years of hard and incessant work and tapasya, on the banks of the Ganga in Rishikesh, in the Himalayas.

Says Swami Shraddhananda, Head Monk of the Vedanta Society of Sacramento U.S.A: "It was my great good fortune to know Swami Nityatmananda even when he was Jagabandhu Babu. How he served the venerable sage day after day! He seemed to be a constant shadow by the side of M." It was during that period that Swami Nityatmananda recorded the talks of M.

Adds Swami Shraddhananda, "One wonders at the unusual capacity of Swami Nityatmananda in recording these day to day conversations of this Vyasadeva of our time - M. - and later developing his notes into his masterly work. One cannot fail to discover the special training he received from M. himself in this direction while he was serving as a teacher in M.'s school and living with him for years."

Swami Nityatmananda was born May 29, 1893. He quit his mortal frame on July 12, 1975"
You may refer to this site:
http://www.kathamrita.org/

Namaskar.
Report to moderator   Logged

Ravi

Thanks for the info regarding the book "M, The Aposltle and Evangelist" , I have downloaded the PDF Version of the same .
Om Peace

1956
General topics / Re: Tamil Scriptures
« on: December 07, 2012, 09:54:00 PM »
Quote
I fully agree and endorse this approach.This is what Master Mahasaya says (from M,The apostle and the Evangelist),as he teaches a few verses of Bhagavad Gita to a devotee and asks him to commit to memory:
Ravi

Thanks for this detailed input regarding Master M urging his disciples to commit to memory the verses of Bhagwad Gita . I am trying my best to follow this approach . The human temptation is to read the meanings and commentary and after reading the meanings in English we consider ourselves to be masters of those texts . No doubt we get some superficial meaning for the same but these divine works Bhagwad Gita , Bhagavatham , Thiruvachagam , Akshara Mana Malai ,Thirukural etc are very potent ones and have lot of depth that one reading of its English meaning will not do .
I remember in early 90s my elder brother when he visited the Ramakrishna Mutt in Chennai and met a Senior Swami there ( I do not know his name ) and wanted to Study Gospel of Ramakrishna , he gave him a copy of condensed Gospel of Ramakrishna and told him to study and digest that first before he studies the Complete Version .
BTW I wish to know the difference between Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna and The Apostle and Evangelist . I have heard Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna and have also read it but this book I have never head . Just now downloaded it from net in PDF Format .

Om Peace .

1957
Atmavichar,

Quote
"Classic Example is the lives of Bhagwan Ramana , Swami Sivananda and Sri Ramakrishna Paramhamsa "

Swami sivananda is a Great soul who excelled in service to others.This was part and parcel of his life even when he served as a Doctor before taking up intense sadhana in Rishikesh.He continued this service during his sadhana period as well.Truly a Mahatma,utterly humble and simple,yet versatile and vastly learned.The Kutir where he stayed on the banks of the Ganges is ever fresh in my memory -They have preserved the flooring and the simple cot that was his bed,his study table from where he wrote his innumerable books-All these are meticulously maintained.The Last I visited was in 1992 or so.

The teachings of Master Sivananda are summarized in these six words:Serve, Love, Give, Purify, Meditate, Realize.

Namaskar.

Ravi
Happy that you visited DLS and Swami Sivananda Kutir in 1992 . Rishikesh is now my sort of second home . :)
No doubt Swami Sivananda is a great example of Service before he started DLS and after he started DLS ( Divine Life Society ) but he warned people on the spiritual path not to get too extroverted  in the name of "saving society " saying it will lead to one's downfall . When people asked why did you start this institutions he said it was Divine Will and he is executing the same and not all have the capacity to be extroverted and yet stay Centered .
Swami Krishnananda also points this out very much that those who go about trying to save society without completing their spiritual work will get a bullet in their Head . He says the biggest Maya on the spirtual path after tasting few blessings on the spiritual path is to "Save Humanity" .I will produce his exact words later .
This is a very subtle topic and many may mistake this as promoting selfishness or laziness in the name of doing one's sadhana in solitude and moving away from public .

1958
Health & Welfare Issues / Re: Microwave Radiation Dangers In Your Home
« on: December 07, 2012, 09:15:42 PM »
Dear Graham,

Once you wrote that people coming to T'malai and stay for a good number of days lose hair fast, because the emission of
signals by Cellphone towers. I was a victim of it when I stayed there for 7 days in 2010.

Arunachala Siva.

Subramaniam Sir

My last visit to Arunachala and Ramana Ashram was in Dec 2009 and after that I have stopped visiting there . I have been very frequent visitor to Arunachala right from 1999 and after 2007 or so onwards I saw severe  deterioration of many things there to such an extent that after Dec 2009 I decided that I will invoke Bhagwan /Arunachala from my home itself and started Moving to Rishikesh for deepening my Spiritual Sadhana in solitude . The infrastructure in Thiruvanamalai is unable to cope up with the severe rush of devotees and the place has become highly overcrowded with lots of constructions , excessive vehicles and vehicular pollution ,shops ,the hotel facilities are substandard , outside food is also getting horrible , and now with extreme power cuts ( I hear it is more than 10 hrs )  ,and added to that now  too many chaps putting posters promising to "awaken others "  through their satsangs . Rishikesh is also having the same symptoms but at least due to Ganges flowing one half of Rishikesh is cut off from Heavy Vehicles like Cars , Trucks etc and I am fortunate to settle in the safe side of Ganges that has only human rush but not Vehicular pollution . The Cell Phone Tower pollution is not much seen as I still found sparrows moving .I was thrilled to see sparrows there after a long time .They are now absent in Chennai .
No doubt Bhagwan's Samadhi Shrine and Old Hall are very powerful and are least affected by the happenings outside , but I feel unless one gets the blessings of staying in the ashram inside , the outside challenges are too much to face .At least I felt that way as the Arunachala I saw in 1999 is not the same what I saw in 2009 .
So I am now comfortable following Bhagwan's teachings at my home itself -listening to the Tamil Parayana , reading his works and sharing in this forum .
Om Peace .

1959
Quote
Have you removed your own ‘spiritual drowsiness?’ The force
which is set up to remove your own ‘drowsiness’ will also operate
in other centres. There is the will-power with which you can act
on others. But it is on a lower plane and not desirable. Take care
of yourself first.


(Talks)

Two gentlemen from Ambala (the Punjab) had been here for a few
weeks. Just before taking leave of Sri Bhagavan one of them asked
how he should remove the spiritual drowsiness of his friends or of
other people in general.

This is again a very powerful pointer . At first it might look very selfish in just doing one's own spiritual sadhana in solitude but according to many Saints like Bhagwan Ramana , Swami Sivananda , the greatest service a person can render the whole world is one's own  self realization . They may  be sitting in some cave alone and many may consider them lazy and unproductive people because they are not actively running , doing service etc but their help is invisible . Classic Example is the lives of Bhagwan Ramana , Swami Sivananda and Sri Ramakrishna Paramhamsa .

1960
Quote
Sri Atmavichar,

This will of interest to you in the same line of post as yours as above:

D.   How is the spiritual uplift of the people to be
      effected? What are the instructions to be given them?

M. They differ according to the temperaments of the individuals and
     according to the spiritual ripeness of their minds. There cannot be
     any instruction en masse.

(Talks)
Thanks Nagaraj .
Bhagwan Ramana has only echoed what I said in the other thread . Only a True Master can guide a student properly and in the absence of a Guru , one has to rely on Sastras for the same . Problem today is ours is now a Secular Democracy and hence most of the rules of Sastras are very difficult to be followed and we can do it only at a symbolic level .
I had a discussion about this with Swami Paramarthananda and he said no doubt following Sastras is quite difficult in current times and hence the next best thing is to follow the rules of some Sattvic Spiritual Organizations like Chinmaya , Sivananda , Ramakrishna , Ramana etc to maintain a basic spiritual life that helps you develop lot of sattva , bhakti and a respect for our  Vedic culture and tradition .

1961
General topics / Re: Tamil Scriptures
« on: December 07, 2012, 05:28:07 PM »
Dear atma vichar 100,

Araadha inbam arulum malai potri - means the malai = Arunachala, which gives limitless bliss to one who contemplate on It.

Swami Dandapani Desikar (of Dharmapuram Adeena,) who has written a 3000 pages commentary on Tiruvachakam, says
here, that the malai here should be construed as Waterfalls (Ekadesa Uruvaha Ani - it is called) and one should interpret
the line as 'the waterfalls that showers limitless bliss'.

Arunachala Siva.

Subramaniam Sir

You have got it right .I found the correct meaning in one issue of Mountain Path .Many other books carry the general meaning that "Malai" here refers to Mountain /Waterfalls that showers limitless bliss . Very few understood that the malai it was pointing to was "Arunachala " .

1962
Quote
The scriptures serve to indicate the existence of the Higher Power or Self and to point the way to It. That is their essential purpose. Apart from that they are useless. However, they are voluminous, in order to be adapted to the level of development of every seeker.

As a man rises in the scale he finds the stages already attained to be only stepping stones to higher stages, until finally the goal is reached. When that happens, the goal alone remains and everything else, including the scriptures, become useless.

The intricate maze of philosophy of the various schools is said to clarify matters and to reveal the Truth, but in fact it creates confusion where none need exist. To understand anything there must be the Self. The Self is obvious, so why not remain as the Self? What need to explain the non-self?

I was indeed fortunate that I never took to it (i.e. philosophy). Had I taken to it I would probably be nowhere; but my inherent tendencies led me directly to inquire ‘Who am I?’ How fortunate!



From, The Teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi in His Own Words, Chapter 1



The above passage clearly sums up Bhagwan's take on Scriptures and I concur with it . These days 2 schools of thought emerge one saying reading of Scriptures are mandatory for atma jnana and another saying it is not .  This debate can continue endlessly and Bhagwan has summed up excellently how far Scriptures are useful and how they can also lead to confusion if you are not careful . Finally Bhagwan considers himself to be fortunate to not get trapped in Scriptures because of his  inherent tendencies and he could go to directly to the question "Who am I" . Each individual has to introspect whether they have the natural tendency to go directly to the question "Who am I" .If they have such a tendency then they are really blessed . Those who have  regular contact  of a realized master are also equally blessed to avoid the scripture maze .
The rest will have to make themselves "eligible" for the direct path  through the long path of sadhana of Japa , Parayana ,Yoga , Puja , Pilgrimage , study of Sacred Books, Scriptures  etc .


Om Peace .

1963
Is the above incident an indicator of the much talked about ending of the world by Dec 21 ,2012 ? :(

1964
http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report_7-3-earthquake-hits-japan-tsunami-expected-to-hit-iwate-coast-at-5-40-pm_1774590

A tsunami alert was issued for Japan's northeast coast on Friday after a powerful 7.3-magnitude undersea earthquake struck, setting buildings in Tokyo swaying violently.

Media reports said a one-metre-high wave could sweep ashore in Miyagi prefecture, an area badly hit by the March 2011 tsunami that devastated a large swathe of coast in the northeast, killing thousands.

Broadcaster NHK, quoting the national meteorological agency, said the tsunami is expected to hit at 5:40 pm (0840 GMT).

The United States Geological Survey measured the quake's magnitude at 7.3.

1965
General topics / Re: Tamil Scriptures
« on: December 07, 2012, 01:41:17 PM »
 The following verse from திருவாசகம்- சிவபுராணம்
Quote
ஆராத இன்பம் அருளும் மலை போற்றி
is familiar to many people but most of the translations I have seen have given just literal meanings to this verse but not the real inner meaning for the same .
Can someone guess what its inner meaning is ? I will share the same once I get some response from others  :)

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