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Messages - atmavichar100

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1951
General Discussion / Re: Common Discussion
« on: December 21, 2012, 01:27:05 PM »
Quote
please ponder. why is the mind sick ? due to wrong ideas and understanding.

Even to ponder one needs a fit mind first  :)

1952
General Discussion / Re: Common Discussion
« on: December 21, 2012, 01:06:56 PM »
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The 10th man does not find the 10th man by praying to a 11th man :D even if he prays and the 11th man is very happy, he will only come and tell him : You are the 10th man.
so unless he "KNOWS" he is the 10th man [MENTALLY KNOWS] , he cannot find that 10th man.

Some cases for the 10th Man to test he is mentally fit first  :)

Case-1 : If the 10th Man is normal sane individual , he will understand what the 11th man says that he is the 10th man and stop worrying .

Case -2: If the 10th Men is a  Clinically Depressed person what will you do ? The mind of a clinically depressed person sees things differently. All the logical explanation you have given above just simply does not apply in the mind of a depressed person.
He needs to be treated for depression and brought back to normal and only then will he understand that he is the 10th Man .

Case-3 :If the 10th Man is highly drunk , instead of seeing 10 people he will be seeing 20 people  :)
So no logic will work for him .One needs to wait till he gets over his drunken state and brought back to normal before the logic enters his head that he is the 10th Man .

So in conclusion :
Logical Knowledge can enter the mind of a person only when he is mentally healthy , sane and fit . Self Knowledge enters the mind of a person only when he is mentally /emotionally prepared through the traditional "Four Disciplines  and Six Behavior Traits"( Sadhana Chatushtaya /  shamAdi Shatsampat )
How one acquires those 4 means and 6 virtues may differ - some through Karma , some through Bhakti , some through Yoga and some through a combination of Karma , Yoga , Bhakti .

Quote
The sAdhana chatuShTaya is described by Shankara in the vivekachUDAmaNi as follows:

Adau nityAnityavastuvivekaH parigaNyate |
ihAmutraphalabhOgavirAgasttadanantaram ||
shamAdiShaTkasampattiH mumukShutvamiti sphuTam || - Verse 19.

The first discipline( Viveka )  is the discrimination between the Real and unreal. The next discipline( Vairagya )  is the detachment or dispassion from the enjoyments of the world here and after death (heaven). The third discipline (shamAdi ShaTka sampatti) is the practice of the six behavior traits - shama, dama, uparati, samAdhAna, shraddhA and titikShA; the fourth discipline ( mumukShutva ) is the intense desire for escape from this saMsAra or realization of the divinity in her or him.

Om Peace .

1953
Atmavichar,
       Ah ah ! u have combined everything up !! :)

so what is this "Experience of Recognition" ? :D LOL!

When that dog came, if i went and told him : hey look, this is sai, he told me. and he believes me ... its done!

What I am trying to say is right from Childhood we have been trained and conditioned to do something to get something . What are all the advertisements geared for - to tempt us to buy a particular product or service to be happy .
There is this joke of a person lying under a tree enjoying a relaxed time and when some asked him how come you are so lazy and not doing any work and that person asks : what are you working for ? and he replies I am working hard to get a good degrees ?
Next follow the dialogue :
Q: What will you do with that good degree ?
A: I will get a good job
Q : What will you do with a good job ?
A: I will get a good  rich girl to marry
Q: What will you get by marrying a good rich girl ?
A : I will be blessed with a good son
Q: What will you do after having a good son ?
A: I will give him good education
Q : What will he do with that good education ?
A: He will get a good job
Q: What will he do with a good job ?
A: He will get a good rich girl to marry
Q: What will he achieve by marrying a good rich girl
A : He will get a good son
Q : So what does it do for you ?
A : After that I will happy retire
Q : What you do after retire ?
A: Happily sit and relax under a tree .
Q: That is what I am doing right now  :)

So this is what the experience of recognition of happiness for the second person   :),while for the first person it was natural from the beginning . Sometimes you need to do something to understand it is not worth doing  :)

1954
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As such, do we lack Experience of Self or Recognition of Self ?

We lack experience of recognition of self  :)

1955
General Discussion / Re: Common Discussion
« on: December 20, 2012, 07:54:10 PM »
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personally, i would like to keep off from all siddhantas - neither advaita nor dvaita, visishtadvaita, advaitaadvaita, dvaitaadvaita, shunya, shaiva, vaishnava, also want to walk away from the terms brahman, atman, aikyam, mukti, jivanmukti, kingdom of heaven, nirvana, what ever else is left out.
:)

1956
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Now, please tell me, who is he who is so much concerned about why he is not being understood by others in the forum?

 :)

1957
General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: December 20, 2012, 02:42:52 PM »
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அவனன்றி யோரணுவும் அசையாதெ னும்பெரிய
Not an atom moveth without Him"

This is an excellent verse  that I always think over when I am upset over something  remembering that 'His will only be done " . No doubt I can put my best efforts , plan, improve upon etc  etc but at  the end  of the day I must surrender to the fact that "His will only be done "

Om Peace

1958
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Re: Light Post
« on: December 20, 2012, 02:22:08 PM »
d: Is bhakti and jnana same?

cguru: No, opposite.

d: Everyone says same and you are saying opposite?

cguru: Because:
bhakt(a) -- pursues --> bhakt(i) whereas
jnan(i) -- pursues --> jnan(a)

In one case (a) pursues (i),  and in the other case (i) pursues (a). Looking at this clear opposite, how can I say it is same?

d: Then where do the opposites meet?

cguru: When:
bhakt(a) -- expresses --> jnan(a) and
jnan(i) -- contains --> bhakt(i)


then (a) meets (a) and (i) meets (i).

Wonderful .

1959
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Seeking Solitude to 'get away from others' is different than seeking solitude for contemplation and ripening of Sadhana.
No wonder that Sri Bhagavan guides people as per their genuine need.
Namaskar

Ravi

That sums it up very well .

1960
General Discussion / Poems, Sayings on Solitude
« on: December 20, 2012, 02:06:01 PM »
Since solitude is being discussed "soundly" on another thread   :), I wish to share here Ode on Solitude by Alexander Pope

Ode on Solitude

Happy the man, whose wish and care
A few paternal acres bound,
Content to breathe his native air,
In his own ground.

Whose heards with milk, whose fields with bread,
Whose flocks supply him with attire,
Whose trees in summer yield him shade,
In winter fire.

Blest! who can unconcern'dly find
Hours, days, and years slide soft away,
In health of body, peace of mind,
Quiet by day,

Sound sleep by night; study and ease
Together mix'd; sweet recreation,
And innocence, which most does please,
With meditation.

Thus let me live, unseen, unknown;
Thus unlamented let me dye;
Steal from the world, and not a stone
Tell where I lye.
Alexander Pope

Others can share poems ,sayings on Solitude by other poets , saints etc ( in English , Tamil ) etc

1961
Humour / Re: Today's Date is Unqiue : 20-12-2012
« on: December 20, 2012, 02:00:50 PM »
Dear atmavichar 100,

Apocalypse should take place today, which is better looking 20.12.2012 than 21.12.2012!
We should re-check the Mayan Calendar!

Arunachala Siva.

Yes Subramaniam sir , that I what I was telling my family members i.e today is the D-Day  :)
So let us wait and see whether we will all be alive tomorrow to post in the forum or give them one more extra day i.e for those who say the D-Day is 21-12-2012 .
So if we are able to log in to the fourm on 22-12-2012 we have been saved  :)
Already I know people preparing excuses for the next D-Day 21-12-2112 when none of us will be alive to really know what is in store on 21-12-2112  :)

1962
Humour / Today's Date is Unqiue : 20-12-2012
« on: December 20, 2012, 01:35:28 PM »
Today's Date is Unqiue : 20-12-2012 , next possible similar date is 21-01-2101 i.e after 88 years .

1963
Dear Atmavichar,
   :) There is nothing surprising. What surprised me is that I said exactly this in another thread and there was a debate about it . Call it Ramana Leela or otherwise, had I got this then , that debate would not have prolonged so much.

I always maintained that Solitude is not physical solitude but really remaining as "I AM" :)
--- as Kevala , in kaivalya !
Harih OM!

Tushnim

True

But if physical solitude is a choice / blessing that you have , no harm in making use of it . Problem comes when you are over obsessed in wanting it sacrificing the present for an imaginary future . For me I love spending time in Rishikesh twice a year , apart from solitude , it gives me and some of my close family members a break from the regular chores( no need to cook food , wash clothes , clean utensils etc etc )  and hence act as sort of physical rest / rejuvenation , plus being close to Mother Ganga is a wonderful feeling - lot of prana and it acts as a wonderful detox especially when you come from a City that is filled with noise /atmospheric pollution .
Apart from these benefits - we carry our own body and mind and if I am unable to handle it here , I will be equally miserable there and I am well aware of it  . My brother from USA last time was so much trilled by Rishikesh that he wanted to buy a property there and I told him ,any place is good only when u spend a short time there but when you make it a permanent place it leads to boredom and best is to bring Rishikesh  inside your own house where ever you are . If you have a choice to visit and stay in those places for some time it is fine .If it does not materialize that is also fine .
But to understand this I did spend lot of time in solitude in many places . So in that way compulsory solitude was also beneficial in my case   :)
By the way Swami Sivananda started his Ashram in Rishikesh for the solitude it offered instead of his native town Pattamadi in Thiruvenveli  and so did  and many other saints and Ramana Choose the caves of Arunachala instead of staying in his own home and entire Himalayan Region is full of many such caves and Ashrams and so are many spiritual spots in India all over are situated in wonderful spots that are surrounded by nature and has solitude .Why even Swami Dayanada has kept his Ashram in Rishikesh at a beautiful spot and he too spent many times in solitude reading Scriptures from Swami Tarananad Giri of Kailas Ashram in Rishikesh . So it does have an effect at least in the Initial stages for a sadhak

1964
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:) LOL! I did not know Ramana said this.

Tushnim

The small dialogue of Bhawan on Solitude came many years back in a small publication by Chinmaya Mission on "Solitude"  that had a collection of articles , dialogues from various saints ( Swami Sivananda , Swami Chinmaya , Ramana , JK , Zen Masters ) on Solitude .

I find nothing surprising in what Bhagwan said .He has always maintained that there is no point in running away from anything and one needs to practice Vichara in whichever position one is . If one is blessed with an Ideal environment for practicing Vichara it is Ok but if one keeps on waiting for such a thing to happen then he feels it will make a person be born again . This is the advice he gave to Annamalai Swamy when he told that he needs a special place free of noise and human disturbance to practice Vichara .

Om Peace .

1965
General Discussion / Re: jIva samAdhi
« on: December 20, 2012, 11:04:09 AM »
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I like Ramanuja saint's guru Bhakthi and I will pray for more and more guru bhakthi.

But at the same time,  my mind will sometimes get upset because he did not have high opinion on Shiva. 

Dear Kskat
Buddha criticized Vedas but for that matter we cannot throw away all that he spoke  or do away with Vedas all together .
Jnanasambandhar has also criticized the Jains but for that matter we cannot disrespect Mahavira and his wonderful teachings .
Like that Many great people came and awakened  people in their own way and in this process they were critical of certain things but let us not bother about that as Sanathana Dharma is too large and wide for 1 person to claim complete authority and have the final word .
You can be comfortable singing the Hymns of  Thevaram , Thiruvachagam as well as enjoy Andal's Thiruppavai as well as Divya Prabandham .
Sanathana Dharma has the choice of plenty and let us relish the diversity without worrying about the differences .
Like I said in another thread you many not like God and go to temples for worship but you can visit the Temple to admire the beautiful  temple architecture , the colorful way people dress , the beautiful hymns being sung there .
You may not sing Thevaram / Divya Prabandham for Bhakti but you can still relish its richness of Tamil for its pure poetry .
Om Peace .

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