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Messages - atmavichar100

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1936
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Re: Light Post
« on: December 20, 2012, 02:22:08 PM »
d: Is bhakti and jnana same?

cguru: No, opposite.

d: Everyone says same and you are saying opposite?

cguru: Because:
bhakt(a) -- pursues --> bhakt(i) whereas
jnan(i) -- pursues --> jnan(a)

In one case (a) pursues (i),  and in the other case (i) pursues (a). Looking at this clear opposite, how can I say it is same?

d: Then where do the opposites meet?

cguru: When:
bhakt(a) -- expresses --> jnan(a) and
jnan(i) -- contains --> bhakt(i)


then (a) meets (a) and (i) meets (i).

Wonderful .

1937
Quote
Seeking Solitude to 'get away from others' is different than seeking solitude for contemplation and ripening of Sadhana.
No wonder that Sri Bhagavan guides people as per their genuine need.
Namaskar

Ravi

That sums it up very well .

1938
General Discussion / Poems, Sayings on Solitude
« on: December 20, 2012, 02:06:01 PM »
Since solitude is being discussed "soundly" on another thread   :), I wish to share here Ode on Solitude by Alexander Pope

Ode on Solitude

Happy the man, whose wish and care
A few paternal acres bound,
Content to breathe his native air,
In his own ground.

Whose heards with milk, whose fields with bread,
Whose flocks supply him with attire,
Whose trees in summer yield him shade,
In winter fire.

Blest! who can unconcern'dly find
Hours, days, and years slide soft away,
In health of body, peace of mind,
Quiet by day,

Sound sleep by night; study and ease
Together mix'd; sweet recreation,
And innocence, which most does please,
With meditation.

Thus let me live, unseen, unknown;
Thus unlamented let me dye;
Steal from the world, and not a stone
Tell where I lye.
Alexander Pope

Others can share poems ,sayings on Solitude by other poets , saints etc ( in English , Tamil ) etc

1939
Humour / Re: Today's Date is Unqiue : 20-12-2012
« on: December 20, 2012, 02:00:50 PM »
Dear atmavichar 100,

Apocalypse should take place today, which is better looking 20.12.2012 than 21.12.2012!
We should re-check the Mayan Calendar!

Arunachala Siva.

Yes Subramaniam sir , that I what I was telling my family members i.e today is the D-Day  :)
So let us wait and see whether we will all be alive tomorrow to post in the forum or give them one more extra day i.e for those who say the D-Day is 21-12-2012 .
So if we are able to log in to the fourm on 22-12-2012 we have been saved  :)
Already I know people preparing excuses for the next D-Day 21-12-2112 when none of us will be alive to really know what is in store on 21-12-2112  :)

1940
Humour / Today's Date is Unqiue : 20-12-2012
« on: December 20, 2012, 01:35:28 PM »
Today's Date is Unqiue : 20-12-2012 , next possible similar date is 21-01-2101 i.e after 88 years .

1941
Dear Atmavichar,
   :) There is nothing surprising. What surprised me is that I said exactly this in another thread and there was a debate about it . Call it Ramana Leela or otherwise, had I got this then , that debate would not have prolonged so much.

I always maintained that Solitude is not physical solitude but really remaining as "I AM" :)
--- as Kevala , in kaivalya !
Harih OM!

Tushnim

True

But if physical solitude is a choice / blessing that you have , no harm in making use of it . Problem comes when you are over obsessed in wanting it sacrificing the present for an imaginary future . For me I love spending time in Rishikesh twice a year , apart from solitude , it gives me and some of my close family members a break from the regular chores( no need to cook food , wash clothes , clean utensils etc etc )  and hence act as sort of physical rest / rejuvenation , plus being close to Mother Ganga is a wonderful feeling - lot of prana and it acts as a wonderful detox especially when you come from a City that is filled with noise /atmospheric pollution .
Apart from these benefits - we carry our own body and mind and if I am unable to handle it here , I will be equally miserable there and I am well aware of it  . My brother from USA last time was so much trilled by Rishikesh that he wanted to buy a property there and I told him ,any place is good only when u spend a short time there but when you make it a permanent place it leads to boredom and best is to bring Rishikesh  inside your own house where ever you are . If you have a choice to visit and stay in those places for some time it is fine .If it does not materialize that is also fine .
But to understand this I did spend lot of time in solitude in many places . So in that way compulsory solitude was also beneficial in my case   :)
By the way Swami Sivananda started his Ashram in Rishikesh for the solitude it offered instead of his native town Pattamadi in Thiruvenveli  and so did  and many other saints and Ramana Choose the caves of Arunachala instead of staying in his own home and entire Himalayan Region is full of many such caves and Ashrams and so are many spiritual spots in India all over are situated in wonderful spots that are surrounded by nature and has solitude .Why even Swami Dayanada has kept his Ashram in Rishikesh at a beautiful spot and he too spent many times in solitude reading Scriptures from Swami Tarananad Giri of Kailas Ashram in Rishikesh . So it does have an effect at least in the Initial stages for a sadhak

1942
Quote
:) LOL! I did not know Ramana said this.

Tushnim

The small dialogue of Bhawan on Solitude came many years back in a small publication by Chinmaya Mission on "Solitude"  that had a collection of articles , dialogues from various saints ( Swami Sivananda , Swami Chinmaya , Ramana , JK , Zen Masters ) on Solitude .

I find nothing surprising in what Bhagwan said .He has always maintained that there is no point in running away from anything and one needs to practice Vichara in whichever position one is . If one is blessed with an Ideal environment for practicing Vichara it is Ok but if one keeps on waiting for such a thing to happen then he feels it will make a person be born again . This is the advice he gave to Annamalai Swamy when he told that he needs a special place free of noise and human disturbance to practice Vichara .

Om Peace .

1943
General Discussion / Re: jIva samAdhi
« on: December 20, 2012, 11:04:09 AM »
Quote
I like Ramanuja saint's guru Bhakthi and I will pray for more and more guru bhakthi.

But at the same time,  my mind will sometimes get upset because he did not have high opinion on Shiva. 

Dear Kskat
Buddha criticized Vedas but for that matter we cannot throw away all that he spoke  or do away with Vedas all together .
Jnanasambandhar has also criticized the Jains but for that matter we cannot disrespect Mahavira and his wonderful teachings .
Like that Many great people came and awakened  people in their own way and in this process they were critical of certain things but let us not bother about that as Sanathana Dharma is too large and wide for 1 person to claim complete authority and have the final word .
You can be comfortable singing the Hymns of  Thevaram , Thiruvachagam as well as enjoy Andal's Thiruppavai as well as Divya Prabandham .
Sanathana Dharma has the choice of plenty and let us relish the diversity without worrying about the differences .
Like I said in another thread you many not like God and go to temples for worship but you can visit the Temple to admire the beautiful  temple architecture , the colorful way people dress , the beautiful hymns being sung there .
You may not sing Thevaram / Divya Prabandham for Bhakti but you can still relish its richness of Tamil for its pure poetry .
Om Peace .

1944
This may be the ashram formalities.
Ramana may not have prescribed this .
from what i know there used to be regular ribhu gita chantings in which ramana used to participate.
but this list does not even contain ribhu gita !!

but this is a nice list.
Dakshinamurhti stotram is a pure bliss for sure :)

Tushnim

I have updated the list to make some changes after seeing the final version from the book "The Veda Parayana At Sri RamanaAshram - An English  Translation ) .

According to this book :

1) In Sri Bhgawan's lifetime , Vedic Chanting/Veda Parayana  was held twice a day morning and evening , lasting about 40 mts on each occasion , and this is still continued .
2) This with the Puja which follows it is  the only ritual which was or is generally attended at the Ashram .
3) It was an hour of tremendous silence when he sat immobile as though carved in rock . He never allowed anything to interrupt it .
4) When asked whether people should learn the meaning ,so as to follow it , he said no : It was sufficient that the chanting served as a support for meditation .
5) Despite this , it is also true , however , that the portions used for chanting were carefully chosen and approved by Sri Bhgawan Himself .
6) Nothing has been deleted from them since Sri Bhagwan's  lifetime and only one item added .That is Sri Dakshinamurti Stotra which , mainly on the request of the late Major Chadwick ( Sadhu Arunachala ) is now used as the opening hymn before the evening chant .
7) Technically in the past even listening to the Chanting of Vedas is supposed to made available only to Brahmins , but this prohibition was abrogated by Sri Bhagwan .
I hope the above points answers your question .

Apart from Twice Veda Parayana there is a Monday - Friday Tamil Parayana from 6.45- 7.30 p.m based on Bhagwan's Tamil Works .  This Tamil Parayana that is now being followed is different from that was followed during Bhagwan's times .

It seems according to Subramanian Sir ,  Ribhu Gita is being Chanted from 3-3.30 p.m daily in evening .I am not ware of it . I am not aware how Ribhu Gita was chanted during Bhagwan's times . But anyway we can chant Ribhu Gita  daily and that is why Ramana Ashram has made available the Tamil Version Audio of the Chant for Free download and has made the Entire Sanskrit Edition Audio CD free as part of the Sanskrit English Edition .

Om Peace .

1945
Quote
can you please give me the list of chants bhagavan has suggested for morning and evening ? I was unaware that he prepared such a list.
Tushnim

The following are the Morning / Evening Vedic and Sanskrit Chants as followed in Ramana Ashram and I believe Bhagwan did give an outline for the same and others added some later .  I once asked David Godman about this but he could not give me the proper answer to its background .
If there is any changes in the list , I will make it .

Ramana Ashram Morning Vedic and Sanskrit Chants

1) Sri Ramna Chatvarimshat
2) Sri Arunachla Pancharatnam
3) Sri Taittriya Upanishad ( Sikisha /Anand /Bhrigu Valli )
4) Sri Suktam
5)Maha Narayana Upanishad ( some portions )

Ramana Ashram Evening Vedic & Sanskrit Chants
1)Dakshinamurti Stotram
2) Sri Rudram
3) Chamakam
4) Purusha Suktam , Narayana Suktam,Durga Suktam
5) Mantra Pushpam .
 6)Upadesa Saram
7) Nakarmana

1946
The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Why Ribhu Gita ?
« on: December 19, 2012, 02:16:30 PM »
Friends,
           :) I have a question for all the forum members:
Why did Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi give so much importance to Ribhu Gita ?
Why , of all the various texts, he suggested Ribhu Gita for parayana ?

He had a few chosen texts  like Ellam ondre, Ribhu Gita etc. What is special about these texts ?


I would love your views on this, with Ribhu Gita in context.

Harih OM!

My answer is based upon my reading of only the English conversations of Bhagwan Ramana and David Godman's books and according me Bhagwan Ramana was the teacher for the direct path  and for the most mature / serious seekers i.e Uttama Adikaris  and Ribhu Gita addresses such a devotee and also follows the Direct Path and hence I feel Bhagwan Ramana would have found it useful for such people .


Om Peace .

1947
General topics / Re: Sangam Literature
« on: December 19, 2012, 02:06:28 PM »
Quote
5. Bhakti literature are not on war with Sangam literature. In fact bhakti literature borrows many ideas from Sangam literature.
Both go hand in hand with each other.

Subramaniam Sir
Thanks for your detailed reply
Has any Bhakti Saints acknowledged this ? I asked a Vaishnavite friend of mine who reads Divya Prabandhams and he said there is no reference to Sangam literature in Divya Prabandhams and even Thirukural is not mentioned / acknowledged .

Om Peace .

1948
Nice dear Atmavichar,
   :) Incidentally I am also trying to learn chanting some sanskrit texts. My mental make up and comfort zone is with the reasoning stuff rather than "Svaras" etc. So I am find it a little tough to learn to chant. But have got a friend who is really patient with me and is helping me learn :). This is totally new for me. But a good learning for sure.

Tushnim

I just need to clarify here  that I am not in to Vedic Chanting which needs more serious commitment and needs the presence of a live Guru .
I am talking about  just plain Sanskrit Chanting - stotras ( mostly Adi Shankara Stotras ) , sahasra namas ( Vishnu , Siva , Lalitha , Ganga )  , Vedantic Texts like Bhagvad Gita , Ribhu Gita , Sat Darshanam , Viveka Chudamani etc

I just learn the above texts by myself using the text and audio Chants of Swami Paramarthananda or any other notable person who has clear pronunciation . I am not fond of chanting it in Raga format and like pure clear Sanskrit Chants .

Of course there are certain divine hyms rendered by MS Subhulaxmi ( Favorites being Bhaja Govindam and Vishnu Sahasranamam )  and other prominent Singers like SP Balasubramanian ( favorite being Shiva Stutis ) that I like in musical format .

As regards Vedic Chanting , I just play the CD and listen to the same in silence ( Morning : Taittriya Upanishad and some suktas and Evening : Rudram , Chamakan and some Suktas ) . Bhagwan Ramana has made a list of Vedic Chants for Morning and Evening and that is what I follow and it seems  that right from the start it has been going on without a break in Bhagwan's presence and still continues in his Samadhi shrine at Ramana Ashram and when there is a Veda Parayana , Bahgwan Ramana who most of the time  sits with his legs stretched out , will fold his legs and sit in rapt attention with his eyes closed .

As regarding taste for reasoning  v/s chanting - I feel u must just follow your natural choice and enjoy doing the same . Of course it is good to at times come out of our comfort zones to explore other dimensions to enjoy the richness of our tradition like say u need not go to temple for rituals , bhakthi but can enjoy the temples for the beautiful architecture or to listen to the wonderful chants in the temple .

Since my samskaras are more in Yoga /Upasana I follow the line of Yoga /Chanting /Solitude but at times I do come out of my comfort zone to read and  listen to Advaita Texts i.e I love to listen to Swami Paramarthannada /Omkarananada lectures and read Swami Dayananda's Transcribed lectures . Plus these days I am also reading some Rational / Atheist stuff to understand why they Criticize our Vedas, Sanathana Dharma  etc  :)

By the way I read some where that most of Atheists are successful in their life  because even to Criticize the Vedas , Bhagavad Gita ,Puranas etc they study them seriously to find the loopholes but the beauty of our Scriptures is even if he is an atheist ,it blesses him for taking effort to study in order to abuse it .

So bottom line is put effort and tap the grace . One may not have a personal Guru but one can get grace of divine texts by Chanting / Reading them seriously .I consider proper and serious chanting of Scriptural Texts( or serious reading of texts )  is the best way to get divine Grace from those texts in the absence of a personal Guru . This is Unique to Sanathana Dharma and this is what I am doing .

Om Peace

1949
General topics / Sangam Literature
« on: December 19, 2012, 01:10:01 PM »
Dear Friends

Few years back in a different  forum there was a sort of heated debate between Sangam literature and Bhakti Literature ( Thevarams , Thiruvachagam , Divya Prabandhams ) etc and the primary point of debate was that Bhakti literature hijacked the Sangam literature and they saw it as a sort of Brahmin Conspiracy as most of the Sangam works were done by Jains , Buddhist , Atheists  and was anti vedic etc ,while the supporters of Bhakti literature say that Sangam literature just focused on love , heroism , virtues etc but not on God , Moksha, Vedas  etc which Bhakti literature gave lot of emphasis and hence it became popular . The only Sangam literature that became popular with both parties was Thirukural but then it has hundreds of commentaries each contradicting one another .

I am not an expert in either Sangam literature or Bhakti literature but would like someone to throw more light on Sangam literature and how it differs from Bhakti literature .

Om Peace .

1950
Quote
Regarding Sanskrit. Have you gone through formal sanskrit study ?

Tushnim ,
I had a basic exposure to Sanskrit through Samskrit Bharati few years back but then did not keep up the momentum . As I said my interest in it was not turning to commitment in the same . The same with study of Scriptural Texts which I did in a bits and pieces manner and not in a serious committed manner .  Of course there were other reasons for the same as I was involved in lot of outward spiritual activity  and many of it has now calmed down / come down and during this period I realized the richness and depth  of our Sanathana Dharma  in all its aspects - Karma , Bhakti , Janana , Yoga , Temple Architecture , Music , Dance , Astrology etc etc and one notable thing I found was the richness of the literature ( in Bhakti ,Yoga ,  Jnana ) left by our forefathers in Classical Sanskrit and Classical Tamil and felt Ashamed of missed learning these 2 Classical language . Though Tamil is my mother tongue and I can speak and read Tamil but it is not enough to study these classical texts . Same with Sanskrit - I can read Sanskrit but cant really understand the classical  texts . No doubt English Translations are available but they fall short in conveying the depth of meaning to these texts and can only provide a broad overview .
After listening to Swami Paramarthananda's Sanskrit Chanting of Sacred Texts and Dharmapuram Swaminathan's Chanting of Classical Tamil Texts ,I understood the power of clear and correct pronunciation . Swami Omkarananda in one of his lectures talked about the power of "Akshara Suddhi " i.e power of clear pronunciation and said it to be a great Sadhana in itself and right now I am giving prominence to learning Sanskrit / Tamil Texts with clear pronunciation .
Swami Paramarthananda has talked about Shabda / Artha i.e if you give prominence to shabda then artha will have to take a backseat and if you give prominence to artha then shabdha will take a backseat . Right now I am giving prominence to Shabda i,e sound and later go to Artha and I believe that the power of these divine shabdha will itself guide me to the right artha of those texts .
Of course this is not a strict black and white rule , I do read meaning of texts but right now my commitment is more towards memorizing the texts than to study its meaning .


Om Peace .

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