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Messages - cefnbrithdir

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Dear Anil

Thank you for coming back to us. You are very blessed but your tapas is also an inspiration to us.

May Bhagavan draw you to all things and when  it is appropriate to be with you, may it be that  you let me know. I would wish to make the journey though I suspect it is 5000 miles or more.



Dear Subramanian Sir

On Bhagavan's 63rd Aradhana, may I ask whether you know the whereabouts of our friend Anil. He contributed so devotedly to Bhagavan so often and yet his posts suddenly stopped on 20th April without, so to speak, giving his leave.

I am sure Bhagavan is with him but wondered whether you knew more.

Thank you



Dear Anil

I hope all is well with you. I appreciate your posts very much.


Dear Subramanian Sir

Indeed. But I understand Mukundaraj's work had  14 Chapters with 303 verses. Maybe this is all of it or its essence.


Dear Subramanian Sir

Thank you so much for highlighting how good this is.

Do you know if there is an English translation of the whole work ?


Dear Anil

Your response addresses entirely  the "loneliness" I had in mind.

Referring to Subject and Object(s) may sound  clinical but I do think it helps discriminate and gives precision to sadhana. The ego really doesn't like living without objects and consciously and unconsciously tries to delay its extinction.

Thank you again.


Dear Subramanian Sir

Thank you. I entirely agree.

I just wondered whether Bhagavan addressed this specifically  in words of acknowledgement or comfort.  Except of course that He is always with us. So perhaps what more is there to say.


Dear Anil Dear Subramanian Sir

Did Bhagavan talk about loneliness on the Vichara path? It seems to me that the ego must go through much loneliness, almost dereliction, before its dissolution. It is so easy to relieve loneliness by creating objects in the mind for the ego to play with and keep company. Sense objects being just one type - there being  many others much more subtle.

Thank you



"Who being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped but emptied himself...and being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross "
" But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. For he makes his sun to rise on the evil and the good and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous".
" He who is steadfastly focused in the Heart will not see anything as the ground except his Self. He who is that screen- like reality which exists and shines will provide the space for everything to appear within him, and he will also cause these appearances to shine "


Dear Anil

I know this does not naturally  follow on from where the thread is at present, but I wanted to share with you something that has come home strongly to me in the last week.

The Hebrew (Judeo- Christian) story of the coming of sin and illusion is told in the third chapter of the Bible (Genesis 3).

Unfortunately this is seen as an act of disobedience. But the talking snake would never have convinced Eve that God was witholding anything from them  unless (in their minds) she and Adam already felt separate from him.

But nevertheless it is a good story.

The terrible irony of course  is that "the knowledge of good and evil" which they gained through eating the apple, a knowledge  which apparently was being withheld from them  by God,  is unreal.  It is not a true knowledge but a duality only existing in a world /consciousness separate from God.

The first thing that happened is that "the eyes of them were opened and they knew that they were naked". They had developed a false/deluded/limiting body consciousness. They sewed fig leaves together -  aware and ashamed of their incompleteness and differentiation.

It is what happened next that has really come through to me.

They hear the voice/presence of God walking in the garden  and hide themselves.

Genesis 3 v 9  " And the Lord God called unto Adam and said unto him "Where art thou ?"
              v 10   And he (Adam)  said  "I heard they voice in the garden and I was afraid because I was naked and I hid myself."     
               v 11 And he (God)  said "Who told thee that thou was't naked ?.."

Amazing that the first words from God to man after things go wrong are questions. The first relates to the ever presence of Grace. And the second "Who told thee that thou was't naked ? " is surely Vichara/Self Inquiry !   The answer to the question can only be "I did" to be followed by  "Who am I ?".

As it turned out  Adam tried to justify himself and blamed Eve - but that is another story.

General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: March 03, 2013, 01:36:59 AM »

Just clarity !

I had that a few weeks back on reading  Bhagavan on thinking only caused by objects, but there are no objects so don't waste  effort thinking. Then I tried to write about it, but got the impression others didn't  quite  understand what I was saying (not their fault) and so .........  never mind.

That's it.  Never mind - the meaning of clarity.

But thank you Nagaraj. I  do appreciate your words.


Dear Sri Jewell and Sri Anil

Thank you  for your posts - to me they were both most definitive in their very different ways.

Do nothing except self inquiry as taught by Sri Bhagavan should perhaps be the title of this thread.

Yet I know my mind remains in thrall of the details of a life so wonderfully lived; the jnani's emptying of himself to others and of coming down to the level of others ; the continuing  devotion to whoever gave them such  grace which remained an important part of the lives of Sri Nisargadatta, Sri Ranjit and their teacher Sri Siddharameswhar Maharaj.

But for the time being these are mysteries and back to vichara we go !

Thank you


You should know the ‘I’, the form of consciousness, by enquiring ‘Who am I?’ with calm deliberation, and then get absorbed in your sawrupa, consciousness.
V. 1064, GVK, Edited by Sri D. Godman

(My emphasis)

Dear Sri Anil

Your quote from GVK above in your reply to Sri Jewell and Sri Subramanian Sri I believe is also very helpful to my own query.  (And I have also read your reply to Sri Jewell on the Nisargadatta thread !)

I am trying to deepen, refine and make my sadhana as comprehensive as I can without going off into cul de sac's and wrong paths. When things are easy - and abidance through grace comes upon you and you are immersed in this without difficulty  - I think it is natural that our still thinking mind tries to understand what has happened and we may form conceptual insights. But I know that conceptual insights can go astray and that is why they should sometimes be tested. Maybe I should simply have more faith in them.

One's own conceptual insights ( if correct)  - as well  as the whole philosophy of Vedanta - can particularly come to our assistance when things are not so easy- indeed when sadhana is  a struggle. Though this period of difficulty may in the first place be because we are in an  intellectual place in our minds.  Another insight !!

I, like you, know the ultimate importance of Bhagavan's vichara teaching. And ultimately everything can be referred back to this  - I believe his devotees called it  his "bazooka" reply (?).

My previous post was about realising something about my swarupa - which of course is not jiva/me. Your quote from Bhagavan I understand to be confirming  this because he talks about "your swarupa" not in some absolute formless way. This does not contradict what Sri Subramanian Sir has said about jugs of milk but with the greatest respect I don't think it addresses what I was trying to say.

When I was talking about "form" I meant that in this life - though we must not be confused by form we still have one. Bhagavan had a form - there is his picture at the top of this page. It is for us a window into Reality. Of course he is infinitely more than his form but he still had a form.

It struck me that my swarupa is changeless - it is there now - and it must have a form now. My form  !  Yet this is  not me because I am still a jiva who needs to do more vichara !

This may all  be banal. But the insight for me is useful. My swarupa is so close.  That as well as  having Bhagavan, I am not alone.


Dear Sri Anil

Thank you for reply and thank you also for your profound Dance of the Ego words.

The title of this thread is "Self enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough" and we always come back to agreeing that this is so !

But we are not practising (exclusively)  atma vichara all the time. We are also devotees of Bhagavan and when we look on his wonderful face or read his wonderful words, however much grace and help we receive from this,  we are not fully immersed in atma vichara. Or am I mistaken ?

However the more abiding we are in the Self,  in the Swarupa, the more we know him. The more we surrender to him, the more we experience his grace.

Bhagavan is both with form and formless and his grace is bringing us to the One Self.

But I would like to ask you and Sri Subramanian Sir or indeed others about the form of our Self, our Atma Swarupa.  Because  if/when we are fully one with Bhagavan we will also, in this life, have a form and it won't be Bhagavan's. Equally other jnanis have different forms from each other though they are all jnanis. Other sadguru's the same. And in the same way that there is nothing to attain and "Nothing ever happened" it seems that  these forms must be  changelessly there waiting for us to realise them  ?  It makes me think there must now be within us  our perfect form which we will step into with Bhagavan's grace. And  it must be there already.

When we are devotees we are never alone because we have Bhagavan with us  but do we not also  have our own Atma Swarupa in the form we are meant to "inhabit" with us as well  ?  Are we not doubly not alone ?   Atma Vichara will be the way for us to be one with Bhagavan and ourselves. But in the meantime will not  our own Atma Swarupa (with a form) be part of our Guru within ?

I hope I am making sense.   Your thoughts , and those of others, would be appreciated.


Dear Anil

I do understand what you are saying. My last post stressing Bhagavan's Talk 398  -  that there are no objects and when you stop the error of thinking there are objects you will stop thinking -  was to try to better understand the mind processes going on in vichara.

Bhagavan said Find the Source; You must reach the Source.  In Nan Yar he talked about scrutinising the source of thoughts.

But differences  in thinking, are  subtle. Could I  be treating the source as another  object - albeit as  the Psalmist poetically put it  " a very wide place". 

  "Scrutinising a source" and attempting  (with difficulty) to create no mental objects  (essentially to cease all thought)  seems somewhat different. If anything there is more Subject in the latter, yet my guess is that this is another "armlock" which is inevitably temporary when let go,   whereas you are submerged in scrutinising a source or if not submerged able to be mindful of it as you go about your  business.

It seems more relevant  when sadhana/vichara is a struggle rather than "coming upon you".

I would be grateful for any comments.

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