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Messages - Subramanian.R

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8701
General topics / Re: Tevaram - Some select verses.
« on: March 11, 2016, 07:49:55 AM »
Verse  5:


தாய னாரெனும் நாமந் தரித்துளார்
சேய காலந் தொடர்ந்தும் தெளிவிலா
மாய னார்மண் கிளைத்தறி யாதஅத்
தூய நாண்மலர்ப் பாதந் தொடர்ந்துளார்.



Tayanar was the name he bore.
Though for a long time, Vishnu pursued
Burrowing, he could not find and was bewildered;
But to those feet of tapas, he could hold fast.   

Arunachala Siva.

8702
General topics / Re: Tevaram - Some select verses.
« on: March 11, 2016, 07:48:07 AM »
Verse  4:


அக்கு லப்பதி தன்னில் அறநெறித்
தக்க மாமனை வாழ்க்கையில் தங்கினார்
தொக்க மாநிதித் தொன்மையில் ஓங்கிய
மிக்க செல்வத்து வேளாண் தலைமையார்.


In that town was a great householder,
Righteous, proper and honorable;
With immense wealth ancestral was he endowed;
He was the chief of husbandmen.

Arunachala Siva.   

8703
General topics / Re: Tevaram - Some select verses.
« on: March 11, 2016, 07:46:00 AM »
Verse  3:

வளத்தில் நீடும் பதியதன் கண்வரி
உளர்த்தும் ஐம்பா லுடையோர் முகத்தினும்
களத்தின் மீதுங் கயல்பாய் வயல்அயல்
குளத்தும் நீளுங் குழையுடை நீலங்கள்.


In that town of foison, in the visages of damsels
Whose locks of hair display five-fold plaits, bees buzz;
Their eyes like unto blue lilies roll and reach their ears;
Their necks are decked with jewels of blue gems;
In pools beside the fields where sport the finny drove
Nelumbos rich in leafy wealth burgeon.

Arunachala Siva.

8704
General topics / Re: Tevaram - Some select verses.
« on: March 11, 2016, 07:43:57 AM »
Verse  2:


செந்நெ லார்வயற் கட்டசெந் தாமரை
முன்னர் நந்துமிழ் முத்தம் சொரிந்திடத்
துன்னு மள்ளர்கைம் மேற்கொண்டு தோன்றுவார்
மன்னு பங்கய மாநிதி போன்றுளார்.


In its paddy-fields when the farmers
Weed out lotuses from them, fall down pearls
Bred thither by chanks; the farm-hands thus,
Like the celestial beings, look endowed with Padma-Nidhi.   

Arunachala Siva.

8705
General topics / Re: Tevaram - Some select verses.
« on: March 11, 2016, 07:41:34 AM »
Arivaattya Naynar Puranam:

Verse  1:


வரும்பு னற்பொன்னி நாட்டொரு வாழ்பதி
சுரும்பு வண்டொடு சூழ்ந்து முரன்றிட
விரும்பு மென்க ணுடையவாய் விட்டுநீள்
கரும்பு தேன்சொரி யுங்கண மங்கலம்.


And there is a town called Kanamangalam,
A splendid place for dwelling, enriched by
The flood of the Kaveri; here hum honey-bees,
Male and female, and soft nodes of sweet-canes
Burst and seep out a rich sugarcane ooze.

Arunachala Siva.

8706

I agree more with Bhagavan Ramana (as quoted by Arthur Osborne)
and Sri Sadhu Om, than Nisargadatta Maharaj and J.Krishnamurti.

Effort is necessary not merely for keeping the thoughts away
but also to make the inbuilt vasanas dry up.  This is reflected
in Bhagavan Ramana's Sri Arunachala Ashtakam, Verse 5, "by
rubbing the mind with mind"

Bhagavan Ramana says in Vichara Sangraham, in answer to Gambhiram
Seshayyar's question:

#
After the mind has been made to stay in the Self, which is its
deity, and has been rendered indifferent to empirical matters
because it does not stray away from the Self, how can the mind
think as mentioned above?  (above = Seshayyar's question:
When there is activity in regard to works, we are neither the agents
of those works not their enjoyers.  The activity is of the three instruments
(i.e the mind, speech, and body). Could we remain unattached thinking thus?)

#

Do not such thoughts constitute bondage?  When such thoughts
arise due to residual impressions (Vasanas), one should restrain
the mind from flowing that way, endeavor to retain it in the Self-
state, and make it indifferent to empirical matters.  One should not
give room in the mind for such thoughts as : "Is this good? Or
is that good? Can this be done? Or, can that be done?"  One
should be vigilant even before such thoughts arise and make the
mind stay in its native state.  If any little room is given such a
disturbed mind will do harm to us while posing as our friend.  Like
the foe appearing to be a friend, it will topple us down.  Is it     
not because one forgets one's Self, that such thoughts arise, and cause
more and more evil?

#

While it is true, that to think through discrimination, 'I do not do
anything', 'all actions are performed by the instruments', is a means
to prevent the mind from flowing along thought-vasanas, does it
not follow that only if the mind flows along thought-vasanas that
it must be restrained through discrimination as stated before?

#

Can the mind that remains in the Self-state think as 'I' and as 'I
behave empirically thus and thus'?  In all manner of ways possible,
one should ENDEAVOR gradually not to forget one's true Self
that is God.  If that is accomplished, all will be accomplished.
The mind should not be directed to any other matter.  Even though
one may perform, like a mad person, the actions are all the result
of Prarabdha Karma, one should retain the mind in the Self-state
without letting the thought 'I do' arise.  Have not countless bhaktas
performed their numerous empirical functions with an attitude of
indifference?

Arunachala Siva.   

8707
General Discussion / Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« on: March 11, 2016, 06:14:38 AM »



Verse 89 of Sri Sivananda Lahari is a beauty.

Nathibhir nuthbhis thavmeecha bhuja-
Vithibhir dhyana samadhibhir na thushta |
Dhanusha musalena chachmabhir vaa
vadha the preetikaram dhatha karomi. ||

O the Ruler of the Worlds!  By bow and arrows, pounding logs,
and stones, you become very happy. You do not even become
so happy, even with namaskarams, stotrams and pujas and dhyana
samadhis.  Kindly tell me by which you shall have maximum
satisfaction.  And I shall do accordingly.

Siva became happy when Arjuna hit Him with his arrows and He gave him Pasupatastra.   
In the story of Sakkya Nayanar, who did puja to Siva Lingam, by throwing stones at it, He
became pleased and conferred him liberation.  Sri Sankara adds here the pounding
log also, as Nindastuti.

Tayumanavar sings:  By throwing stones, and hitting you with
arrows, and throwing some green leaves, your devotees reached
the shore.  I am lowly without any devotion, what can I do to
get your grace, O the Guru, who supported the non-injury to
others as the first qualification to reach you!

Arunachala Siva.

8708
General Discussion / Re: What is Neo Advaita? James Swartz.
« on: March 10, 2016, 02:52:27 PM »
Many Neo Advaitic satsangh teachers use a picture of Sri Ramana to lend legitimacy and gravitas to their
satsanghs, and promote the idea that silence is somehow the ultimate teaching.  While understanding
the nature of the Self in 'silence'  may finish the sadhana of a few qualified seekers, experiential silence
is not superior to the skillful use of words in bringing about enlightenment.  This is so because silence is in
harmony, not conflict with Self Ignorance...  as it is with everything.  One can 'sit in silence' for lifetimes
and never realize that one in Silence, meaning limitless Awareness. Knowledge, however, which is the result
of Self Inquiry in line with scripture, destroys destroys Self, ignorance like destroys darkness. 

Additionally no experience, including the experience of non duality may temporarily suspend thought or increase one's conviction that one is limitless Awareness, but the notion of the 'I'  is limited, inadequate, incomplete and separate is hard witted.  It is only diligent practice of the knowledge 'I am non dual Awareness and not this body mind' in every life experience, that one's understanding of reality gets in life with the nature of the Self.  I was informed recently by a friend with considerable knowledge of the Satsangh world that we have now entered the 'Post Neo Advaita' period.  Not surprisingly Neo Advaita has no live up to its promise as a quick and easy means of liberation and people are now looking for the next 'most incredible' path to enlightenment!       

Does Neo Advaita have any redeeming virtues?  In non dual reality everything somehow eventually serves the
Self..... appearances to the contrary notwithstanding. Just as kindergarten is a prerequisite for grade school,
people seeking enlightenment need to start somewhere and Neo Advaita, imperfect as it is as a vehicle for
spiritual practice or Self Realization, provides an entry level access to the idea of non duality. And because
satsangh provides a sense of community it will probably continue in some form or other for the foreseeable
future.  It will however, undoubtedly remain little more than a lifestyle fad.. unless it investigates its roots and
discover the wisdom of the Vedas.

concluded.

Arunachala Siva.           

8709
General Discussion / Re: What is Neo Advaita? James Swartz.
« on: March 10, 2016, 02:31:42 PM »
Some schools of Neo Advaita subscribe to the notion that enlightenment can be transmitted in some
experiential way via the physical proximity of a master.  Traditional Advaita disagrees with this view,
for the reason that ignorance is deeply entrenched in the aspirant's thinking and it is only by constant
reflection of the teachings that the ultimate assimilation of the knowledge is achieved.  This ultimate assimilation is often called 'full' or 'complete' enlightenment.  The 'transmission' on the other hand, fits nicely into the Neo Advaitic conception of easy enlightenment as it does away with the need for serious sadhana. One need do nothing more than attend a Satsangh presided over by a 'master' and presto chango!...one wakes up for good.  If this were true, however, the tens of thousands who sit at the feet of enlightened masters everywhere would be enlightened.

An idea that has gained currency in the Neo Advaitic world is an experiential notion of 'awakening'. While
sleep and waking are reasonable metaphors to describe the state of Self ignorance and the Self Knowledge, Neo  Advaita assigns to them a meaning that is not justified.  Just as anything lives, dies, anything wakes,
sleeps. But the Self never sleeps or awakens. This 'waking up' and 'going back to sleep'...all of which
takes place in the waking state ego incidentally... is a consequence of play of the gunas in mind.  When the
mind is sattvic, the reflection of the Self in it causes the individual to 'wake up' to the Self, but when rajas
or tamas reappear, as they invariably do, the mind is agitated or clouded and the Self experience is lost. ...
causing the mind to go back to 'sleep'. Until the rajasic and tamasic vasanas are purified one is condemned
to a frustrating cycle of waking and sleeping.

One of the most common Neo Advaitic misconceptions is the idea that the ego must be surrendered or destroyed for enlightenment to happen.  But my understanding, through the study of scripture, reflection
and experience, is that the realization of one's self as non dual awareness does not destroy the ego but
provides a limitless space in which it can relax and face life with equanimity. 

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.                   

8710
General topics / Re: Hridaya - John Grimes:
« on: March 10, 2016, 12:27:57 PM »
'In the recesses of the lotus shaped heart of all, from Vishnu downwards, there shines as Absolute
Consciousness the Paramatman (Supreme Spirit) who is the same as Arunachala or Ramana. When
the mind melts with love of Him and reaches the inmost recess of the Heart wherein He abides as the
Beloved, the subtle eye of Absolute Consciousness opens and He reveals Himself as pure Knowledge.'
(The Collected Works of Sri Ramana Maharshi, 'Arunachala Ramana'.

Sri Ramana said in regard to where the Heart is located, 'The Heart is used in the Vedas and the scriptures
to denote the place whence the notion 'I' springs.   Does it spring only from the fleshy ball?  It springs within
us something right in the middle of our being.  The 'I' has no location.  Everything is the Self.  There is nothing but that. So the Heart must be said to be the entire body of oneself and of the entire universe, conceived as 'I'.  But  to help the spiritual practiser, one has to indicate a definite part of the universe, or
of the physical body.  So the Heart is pointed out as the seat of the Self. But in truth we are everywhere,
we are all that is, and there is nothing else.  (Talks, Op.cit Talks $ 29)/

Again, regarding the location of the Heart:  "The Heart is not physical.  Meditation should not be on the right
or left. Meditation should be possible on the Self.  Everyone knows 'I am'. Who is the 'I'?  It will be
neither within or without, neither on the right nor on the left. 'I am' - that is all. The Heart is the center
from which everything springs.  Because you see the world, the body and so on, it is said that there is a
center for these, which is called the Heart.  When you are in the Heart, the Heart is known to be neither
the center nor the circumference.  There is nothing else. Whose center could it be? (Talks $  273).


concluded.

Arunachala Siva.           
         

8711
General Discussion / Re: What is Neo Advaita? James Swartz.
« on: March 10, 2016, 12:05:04 PM »
Why are binding vasanas such a major problem for anyone, seeking enlightenment? Because they disturb
the mind to such a degree that one's contact with the Self, as it reflects in the mind to such a degree that one's contact with the Self, as it reflects the mind, is broken.  It is meditation on the reflection of the Self in the mind that allows that allows the intellect to investigate the Self and gain the knowledge 'I am the Self' that breaks down the subject-object distinction and ends one's sense of duality.

Another essential component of any valid spiritual path, Vedic or otherwise, is Bhakti, devotion to God or the Self.  Ramana gave devotion to God equal status with Self Inquiry as a spiritual path, because devotion to God
paves the way for Self Realization, by  breaking down the concept of doership.  'Not my will,  but Thine'.  It also teaches that God, not the ego, is the dispenser of the fruits of one's actions. But Neo Advaita sees devotion to God as 'duality' and has nothing to do with it.  This shunning of the devotional aspect of life
is based on ignorance of the value of devotion as one of the primary requirements for emotional happiness   
and Self Realization.  In fact, dvaita works just as well as advaita in preparing the mind for Self Realization
because the Self understand the heart's yearning for freedom and functions through one's chosen symbol to
prepare the seeker for Self Realization.               

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.

8712
General Discussion / Re: What is Neo Advaita? James Swartz.
« on: March 10, 2016, 11:09:52 AM »
Traditional Vedanta also deals with the vasanas by insisting that the seeker practice Vedika Dharma,
a duty oriented approach to life. When a person follows Vedika Dharma binding vasanas are neutralized.
But when there are no teachings concerning the relationship between the Kamya Karmas, desire prompted
activities, and the production of binding vasanas, is it any wonder that whatever non dual experiences are
acquired in Satsangh quickly vanish with the dual experiences with the appearance of the next binding vasana....much less the knowledge " I am non dual Awareness' that sets one free?  This is why the Neo
Advaitin world is little more than thousands of people, including the teachers, who have had scores of non dual
experiences, but who at the end of the day, are still prisoners of their conditioning.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.                     

8713
General topics / Re: Mind and Consciousness - David Frawley:
« on: March 10, 2016, 10:46:09 AM »
The Question of Self Knowledge:

In Yoga, knowledge alone is said to bring about the liberation of consciousness, specifically self knowledge
or the knowledge of our true nature in the Purusha.  When we speak of self knowledge for the personal
for the personal mind, we are mainly referring to knowledge of one's personal history, habits and inclinations.
Self Knowledge for the inner Being, however, consists of understanding the essence of awareness beyond
thought and personal history.  Though our thoughts are constantly changing, our inner Being remains the same.

True Self Knowledge is a matter of Being, not of thought or emotion. It is a state of Being, not of events,
experiences or ideas known.  Our inner Being has no conceptual content, nor is it conditioned by time and action.  It is a state of openness, surrender and presence like a steady thread through all our experiences.
Contacting it brings us into a state of peace, in which the mind and its psychology are naturally put to rest.
To reach our inner Being requires a different orientation of our consciousness, a willingness to let go of our
personal history and dive into the great Unknown within.

From the standpoint of the Purusha or true Self. one could say that you cannot know yourself.  There is no
self or personal history to be known which could define you.  From the standpoint of the true Self, you can
only be your Self. But in being yourself, you become one with all Being.  You come to know all things within
yourself,  in which he mind becomes but an instrument to be used at will or put to rest.

Our inner Being exists beyond time and space, birth and death, mind and body.  Yet it is present within us
as the ground of  Being which is the same in all.  In that awareness, the mind becomes quiet and passive
and the personal self loses its relevance.

In that Inner Reality, the mind loses its importance. This is just as when the Sun is shining, one no longer
notices the Moon.  The reality is self evident.  Nothing needs to be said, discussed or argued about. And the
reality is so vast it can never be described. One merges into the experience only.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.                           

8714
General topics / Re: Hridaya - John Grimes:
« on: March 10, 2016, 10:26:03 AM »
Sri Ramana used the term Hridaya not to imply that there is a particular location or center for the Self
but merely to indicate that the Self is the source from which all appearances manifest.   He experienced
the spiritual Heart on the right side of His body while maintaining that in reality it is 'located' both everywhere
and nowhere.  It is like Bhagavan's being everywhere but more powerfully here. He is nowwhere for He never
had a form. 

According to Sankara, one's Heart is the temple (adhishtana) of Brahman, of the Self, and it is there that
Brahman is experienced;  it is the seat of Brahmanubhava. (Taitt. Up. Bhashya II. 6.1); Brahma Sutra Bhashya I.3.25: Brah. Up. Bhashya III. 9.23)  Sri Ramana said, 'Therefore, it is stated, that what is called the Heart is no other than Brahman.  Moreover, for the reason that Brahman shines in the hearts of all souls as the Self,' the name   'Heart' is given to Brahman. (Self Inquiry Section 9).

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.

8715
Asking the Question:

Having made the determination and set our mind to it, now we can approach actual questioning. But
where do we begin?

At the root, Bhagavan tells us, inquiry has no mechanics. It simply entails asking the question. Though
uncomplicated, questioning is not easy.  In the beginning we may have to rely on sheer will power in virtue
of the mind's brick wall resistance and the frustration that comes with repeated failure.  The key word here
is perseverance; the mind thwarts us at every turn, continually finding ways to fortify its defenses and deflect
the quandaries generated by questioning. By its nature, the mind resists doubt; hence Vichara's efficacy
resides precisely in the uncertainty it activates. When the mind insists on concrete 'answers', continually
re-asserting itself with its insights and analyses, the requisite anti dote, Bhagavan tells us, is simply to
recognize their futility and resume questioning by asking, 'To whom has this thought arisen?'  As thoughts arise, even if insightful or convincingly worded, Bhagavan urges that they simply 'be destroyed then and
there in the very place of their origin through inquiry.'  And the same applies to other activities: So long as
you think, 'I am walking, 'I am writing' inquire who does it.' (Quotes from Who am I, # 11,15, and Talks # 596.)

Why such rigor, one might ask?  Because Vichara's virtue does not lie in generating solutions-- inferring or
deducing facts  -- but in leaving the false behind.  (Talks $ 251) What is left behind?  A Zen proverb says:
all we have to lose are our chains, i.e. the mind's labels, concepts and positions

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.                 

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