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Messages - Subramanian.R

Dear mick,  kindly also read, Raju Balsekhar's  " Buddha,
Advaita and the Unbroken Whole".  Arunachala-Siva.

Dear Hutchinson,  You are quite correct.  Bhagavan Ramana did exhibit
emotions of joy and sorrow, pleasure and pain.  He is " Human,
all to Human" as Nietzshe said.  Whether it was from His previous
births or from His "Suddha-manas"  - Pure Mind, it is only for us
to investigate!  When, He heard some sound from the well, when
everybody else heard it or did not hear  it, we do not know, He asked
somebody to drop a basket and lift the small creature ( a butterfly or
a bird) from out of the well.  Similarly, when He observed a squirrel
being chased by a monkey, on the pathway,  He quickly threw His stick and prevented the onslaught, and in the process, He fell down and sustained injuries! There are many such incidents.  He saved a parrot in the Hill.  He did not like the squirrel's nest being demolished  in the Old Hall.   If one could shed tears on reading such incidents, he will be
blessed by Him. Arunachala-Siva.         

I further read David Godman's "Be as you are".  There is a beautiful
chapter (12) titled "Life in the world".  Someone asks, 'At  Sri Aurobindo
Asram, there is a rigid rule that married couples are permitted to live
there on condition, that there have no sexual intercourse'.  Bhagavan
answers:'What is the use of that?  If it exists in the mind, what is the
use of it, to force people to abstain?'  There is another questioner saying,
' I am carried away by the sight of the breasts of a young woman
neighbour...' etc., etc.,  Read Bhagavan's answer!  Wonderful!  He
assures us,  " Leave all your cleverness and come to me.  I shall
destroy the shackles of your mind."  Be the Self, you will have no
sex troubles.  Mind is the villain in all of us, whether it is anxiety,
obsession, compulsion, depression or dissociation.

General topics / Re: About meditation problems
« on: June 07, 2008, 11:03:59 AM »
Mr. "gurugrace", while meditating, either without or within, there
are lots of problems.  The foremost is gushing of thoughts.  Sleep
comes next.  Fear also comes for most of us.  While getting thoughts,
sleep or fear, do not bother.  Ask "For whom are these thoughts,
sleep or fear?".  It will go off.  But if you still get sleep, coninue
meditation, while you become awake.  Read "Who am I?" or
simply say "Arunachala Siva".  While I get sleep, I say: "Bhagavan
Ramana, let me sleep in You."  He is taking care.

General Discussion / Webcam Service
« on: June 06, 2008, 05:48:36 PM »
I think, it is more than 3 weeks.  I hope and pray that the
Temple authorities lift the ban and permit cameras which
are sending the photographs of the Hill  every 60 second.
I request fellow Forum members to join the prayer.
Arunachala Siva.

General topics / Re: No cause and effect?
« on: June 05, 2008, 03:57:55 PM »
Speaking further about cause and effect, Bhagavan Ramana adopted
three different standpoints, when He spoke about the nature of the
physical world.  He advocated all of them at different times, but it is
clear from His general comments on the subject, that He only considered
the first two theories, to be either true or useful. 
1. Ajata vada, the theory of non-causality.  This is an ancient Hindu
doctrine which states that the creation of the world never happened
at all.  It is a complete denial of the causality in the physical world. Ramana endorsed this view by saying that it is the jnani's experience,
that nothing ever comes into existence or ceases to be because the Self
alone exists as the sole unchanging reality.  It is a corallary of this
theory that time, space, cause and effect, the essential components
of all creation theories, exist only in the mind's of the anjnanis and the
experience of the Self reveals their non-existence.
2. Drishti-Srishti vada, when the questioners found the idea of Ajata
or non-causality impossible to assimilate, He would teach them that
the world comes into existence simultaneously with the appearance of
'I thought'  and it ceases to exist, when the 'I thought'  is absent.
3. The third is Srishti-Drishti vada, the theory of gradual creation.  This
is the common sense view, which holds that the world is an objective
reality governed by laws of cause and effect, which can be traced back
to single act of creation.  This is what all the Western philosophers, the Big Bang theory and the book of Genesis in Bible speak about.  Bhagavan
invoked these theories only when He was talking to questioners who are unwilling to accept the first two. Even then, He would usually point out that the theories should not be taken seriously, as they were only promulgated to satisfy the intellectual curiosity.
Bhagavan Ramana insisted that though D-S-V sounds perverse, the
serious seekers should be satisfied with it, becuase it is close approximation of the truth and it is the most beneficial to adopt if one
is seriously interested in realizing the Self. 
If you want to read elaborate accounts of these theories, please see
David Godman's "Be as you are", or, Mandkaya Upanishad and the
wonderful commentary of Gaudapada, called Gaudapada Karika.

Dear non-duel, I agree with you.  More than His own pain in the
last 2 years of His life, Bhagavan felt, experienced,  and expressed more pain towards the sufferings of others.  I have already mentioned on
the subject of contextual truth, that Bhagavan cried, when Echammal
brought her grandson, after everyone of her relatives had passed away
and placed the little child on Bhagavan's lap.  Not only pain, even
other feelings of joy etc., have been expressed by Him, becuase,
others had felt happy at that material point of time.  For example,
when "avial" (a mixed vegetable prepration in the form of a gravy)
and "kanji" ( a rice porridge) was to be served in the morning in the
Ashram, He rejoiced with every one else.  All is Oneness,  All is
Brahman, All is Self and Jnani is All.  But, we mortals, enjoy happiness,
good luck and suffer pain and misery only for ourselves and not for
others, invariably.   

General topics / Re: HOW CAN THE SELF BE BEYOND TIME ?
« on: June 04, 2008, 07:15:02 PM »
In samadhi state, one is Brahman and since Brahman is everything,
it includes both time and space.  In his Tamil poem, He says:
"Naan indri, naL edhu?, Nadu edhu?, meaning that " without me,
where is space? where is time?."  There is an Einstein quote, where
he says:  " I want to know only God's thoughts.  Every other thing are

General topics / Re: "Time and Space are within you"
« on: June 04, 2008, 07:10:03 PM »
You are right.  Bhagavan also said that while in screen-cinema
show, 'the seer' is outside the picture and the screen,  in
life-show, we are the 'the seer' and 'the screen'.

Ashrams / Visiting Ashram at Tiruvannamalai
« on: June 04, 2008, 06:08:18 PM »
I went to T. malai, last week and stayed for 3 days.  Without
any notice, since rooms were available, the authorities gave
me a room for stay.  I had excellent darshan, took tea and food,
meditated in the Old Hall and purchased some excellent books.  I
use this Forum to express these feelings to my friends. 

Ashrams / Re: Ashram Meditation hall
« on: June 04, 2008, 06:03:40 PM »
I visted Ramanasramam, Tiruvannamalai, last week and stayed
for 3 days in that place.  I also heard the "chanting of mantras"
in the Matrubhuteswara Temple, which is also used for meditation.
I believed that these 'noises' did not disturb the meditators who
are 'advanced'.  But there is the Old Hall, where there is no
'external disturbance', and one can meditate any amount of time
(during the permitted periods).  In fact, I meditated there only.

Dear non-duel, I had the fortune of visiting Tiruvannamalai,
last week and stayed for 3 days.  Excellent darshan, meditation,
food and stay and purchase of books.  I checked with one elder
at the book shop, on Ramana Jnanabodham.  He clarified that
Muruganar, apart from writing Ramana Sannidhi Murai and Guru
Vachaka Kovai, wrote thousands of other songs, which mainly
described his jnana-experience by grace of Bhagavan.  Among these,
about 2000 poems have been classifed and printed in 8 volumes
titled " Ramana Jnanabodham ".  The books have been printed by
Ramana Kendra, Delhi and there is not reprint.  A few copies of
a few volumes are still available in Asram. 

General topics / Re: Do you think it would be true to say?
« on: June 04, 2008, 05:15:08 PM »
This apparently looks like logic of "reductio at absurdum".  But
I feel, that the exercise is essential to realize that you are
the Object.  The way leads to the goal to enable one to realize
that you are the Goal.  Bhagavan replied, when some one asked
if there is no mind in sleep, why not we always be in sleep and
realize the no-mind state:- " that the realization is immensely
superior to sleep, and it is a sleep-less sleep".

Dear non-duel, Bhagavan is Brahma-jnani but  He did experience
pain, as everyone else.  But as Saiva-Siddhantists say, such pain
will be 'thinned'.  In fact, when He suffered from sarcoma, doctors
have said that the pain would be excruciating, as if a lorry is
running over one's hand.  But Bhagavan merely groaned in sleep.
Jesus must have also had  such 'thinned' pain.

Ashrams / Re: Ashram Meditation hall
« on: May 29, 2008, 12:12:57 PM »
The story of Kandaswami listening to the radio is also mentioned
in Ramana Leela of Krishna Bhikshu.  Coming to the "noise" from
"veda mantras", firstly, if one is able to maintain his silence, he can
do so, without 'listening' to the mantras.  Secondly, the mantras,
are recited by trained people (whether they are in true silence or not,
is another matter) and its power gets enhanced by  Bhagavan,
who is more powerfully enshrined in the hall.  Of course, for most
of us, external noises from radio, TV etc., do disturb our reading
and meditating.  But perhaps, the way out is, to have the meditation
in times other than the chanting time.