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Messages - Subramanian.R

Dear non-duel,  In the same context, I suggest you read
"Day by Day with Bhagavan" by Mr. Devaraja Mudaliar,
which covers another 3 to 4 years of His life and teachings.
Summing up,  Bhagavan says:

1.  "I" is more potent than even "OM" the Hindu Pravana
Mantra, which is the primordial mantra for invoking the
gods and Brahman.  It is the same as what Abraham tells
in the Bible.

2.  The jiva (individual), gods and the world are mere
imaginations.  All are  forms of Siva or Brahman.  Brahman stays in
the Heart and is indicated by "I".  It remains there during
wakeful, dream and sleep states.  When one dies, the mind
takes 'prana'  (breath) with it and leaves for another birth,
hell or heaven. The mind carries the 'vasanas' (latencies) of
the birth.  When mind is annihilated, one is Brahman. 

Arunachala Siva.

General topics / Re: Brutal lies
« on: June 10, 2008, 04:06:43 PM »
In 'Who am I?', Bhagavan says:  "Desirelessness is wisdom.  The two
are different.  They are the same.  Desirelessness is refraining from
turning the mind towards any object.  Wisdom means the appearance
of no object.  In other words, not seeking what is other than the Self
is detachment or desirelessness.  Not leaving the Self is wisdom."
By the words, "not seeking what is other than the Self",  Bhagavan
implies "seeking only the Self.".    But " seeking the Self " is not a desire, but shedding of the undesirables. But for this process, one should
have some essential desires.  Bhagavan did not eat for more than
20 days in Patala Lingam Cave.  He, while in His body, was wearing
only a cod-piece.  He never wore sandals in His life.  But, He did not
disapprove food, clothes and sandals for the seekers.  Even these
desires might go, when you "Be the self' because desirelessness is
wisdom.  When once one knows the Truth, every other thing is a lie.
Till such time, there will be lies, brutal lies et al.  Arunachala Siva.     

Dear non-duel, I agree with you.  What Sri Atmananda Menon
called as 'dreaming in waking' state, is the 'sleepless sleep' of
Bhagavan Ramana.  In Upadesa Saram, Bhagavan mentioned all
the four paths of karma, bhakti, yoga and jnana.  I believe they
are all inter-woven. desireless karma, bhakti to the Heart within,
yoga of simply watching the breath, and jnana of staying in the
Absolute are inseparably coexistent in a jnani.  Bhagavan did
kichen chores by waking up at 2.30 AM, made a nice stick for the
shepherd on the Hill, read books on bhakti and showed infinite
compassion even towards the lowly, and ever stayed in Self.
I have not read Sadhu Om, but I am reading a little bit of classical
Tamil poems of Muruganar.  I want to buy Sri Sadhu Om's books. 
Arunachala Siva.   

General topics / Re: REALITY
« on: June 09, 2008, 05:46:19 PM »
Dear mick, I can never question your belief. Bhagavan Ramana
is a different person, when He was in body.  He never wore sandals
in His life.  He never wore ochre robes.  All His readings and writings
were after He realized.  It is like someone suddenly appearing on the
top of a hill and then descending to the foothill to tell others His
experience atop the hill.  We are all on the foothills, trying various
ways, various books, various Gurus, transcedental meditation and
other types, shifting from one way to another and so on.  Eventually,
if the goal is achieved, the ways are forgotten.  Is it not? 
Arunachala Siva.

General topics / Re: REALITY
« on: June 09, 2008, 12:53:22 PM »
Dear mick,  You have yourself said that LSD and other such
drugs will not give realization.  Sadhu Om's experience and your
experience cannot be questioned but you will agree that perhaps
the drugs make your "way" look somewhat easier, but still the
goal is not assured.  It is like going round the Arunachala Hill,
by car, instead of by foot.  The Goal can be attained only when
Goal wants you to attain it.   Is it not? As T.S. Eliot put it:  "There is a time, there is a time, when everything looks alike...   After such
knowledge, what forgiveness?"    Arunachala Siva.   

Dear non-duel,  I have no quarrel.  During the intellectual pursuit
and when we are still on the way, it is I AM THAT I AM.  When
we reach the goal, or become the goal or when we are the goal,
it is I AM I AM.  All is well that begins well and ends well.  For
Bhagavan Ramana, it happened instantly.  Sri Nisragadatta Maharaj
took three years to realize.  In Kathopanisad, Nachiketas took
three days in Yama's abode to realize.  In Chandogya Upanisad,
some disciple took 96 years!  Under Zen Masters, Rinzai and Bosho,
some students worked out one single 'koan' for one day and attained
'satori'.  Some other students tooks several years to work out a single
'koan'  and had 'satori'.  Ultimately, I think, it all depends on one's
"carry-forward stocks"!   Arunachala Siva.     

General topics / Re: REALITY
« on: June 08, 2008, 05:18:38 PM »
Dear mick and dedhead,  I had also read a lot of J Krishnamurti,
and attended his December lectures in Madras (now Chennai).  A
news item appeared after his death telling about his relationship
with Ms. Rosalind Rajagopal, his disciple's wife.  After knowing
that he was "mere prattle without practice", I dumped his books
in my attic. 

General topics / Bhagavan Ramana and Sankara
« on: June 08, 2008, 04:43:47 PM »
When I read Sri Ramana Ashotra (Hymn of 108 names of Bhagavan
by Viswanatha Swami, describing Bhagavan's life), daily in the morning,
I am not but able to compare  Bhagavan Ramana with Sankara.  Sankara
lost his father, when he was barely six years old and Bhagavan's father
also passed away, when the boy was about twelve.  When Sankara
went for begging his food, he was offered a gooseberry fruit by a
poor old day and Sankara sang the famous Kanakadhara Stotram, when
golden gooseberries rained on her home.  When Bhagavan went for alms,
one gentleman who was playing cards on the portal of his house, offered
food and he was later given the famous upadesa called Vichara Sangraham.  He is none other than Gambiram Seshayyar.  Sankara
went skyward to Kaladi, his village in Kerala, and  gave his mother
salvation.  But Ramana is Unmoving, Arunachala, and so, He made
His mother come to her.  The poor lady came not once but 4 times. On
the fourth occasion, He made her to stay with her on probation.  He
first removed all her false prides of caste, creed and achara.  He then
removed her knots of karma and bestowed her salvation, with
the merger of "I" with the Absolute.  Again, as in the case of Jnana
Sambandha, who got milk from the Goddess Uma, on the banks of a
tank in Sirkali, Bhagavan was given the milk of Goddess Unnamulai
in Tiruvannamalai temple, by the priest, when Bhagavan was
staying in the temple precincts.   Arunachala Siva. 

Forum advice, news & etiquette / Bhagavan Ramana and Sankara
« on: June 08, 2008, 04:28:30 PM »
When I read Sri Ramana Ashotra (hymn of 108 names of Bhagvan
by Viswanatha Swami, describing His life), daily in the morning, I
am not but able to compare Bhagavan Ramana, with Sankara.  Sankara
lost his father, Siva Guru, before he was six.  Bhagavan Ramana also
lost His father when He was about twelve.  When Sankara went for
begging food, one poor lady gave him a gooseberry fruit, Sankara
made golden gooseberries rain in her home, through his famous
Kanakadhara Stotram.  When Bhagavan went for alms, one gentleman,
who was playing cards on the portals of his house gave Him food, and he
was blessed later with a famous Upadesa called Vichara Sangraham.  He
is none other than Gambiram Seshayyar.  Sankara went to Kaladi, his
village in Kerala, skyward, and gave salvation to his mother.  But in
the case of Bhagavan, since He was Unmoving, Arunachala, He made
His mother come to Him.  The poor lady came not once but 4 times and
on the fourth occasion, after placing her on probation and removing
all the false prides of caste, creed, and  'achara' and after removing
all the knots of karma, He bestowed her salvation, with the merager
of "i" with the Absolute.  As in case of Jnana Sambandha, who had
milk from Goddess Uma on the banks of a tank in Sirkali, Bhagavan
was offered with the milk of Goddess Unnamualai in Tiruvannamalai
temple through the temple priest!  Arunachala Siva.     

General topics / Re: "Time and Space are within you"
« on: June 08, 2008, 03:04:48 PM »
Dear mick, further, in life, we have eat and excrete.  In realization,
we have to refuse the refuse and be the food.  Is it not? Arunachala

General topics / Re: REALITY
« on: June 08, 2008, 03:00:09 PM »
Hey Nell, "no beginning= no end = infinite".  You have rediscovered
Gaudapada, (Sankara's teacher's teacher)!!  He said exactly the
the same thing in his famous Gaudapada Karika, a Sanskrit verse-
commentary on Maandukya Upanisad.  This is called "no creation=
no dissolution = Existence-Knowledge-Bliss.   Incidentally Maandukya
is the smallest Upanisad with 20 verses and the commentary is of
about 250 verses.  Sankara wrote a more detailed commentary
on MU and GK.  Arunachala Siva.

General topics / Re: REALITY
« on: June 08, 2008, 02:24:51 PM »
Dear mick and dedhead,  Being Sunday, I was once again reading
the complete exchange of views between you two right from Jan 2007.
Ultimately, existence and non-existence seem to me the both sides of
the same coin.  Elders who knew it, perhaps, called it Existence 
Knowledge and Bliss, to sound more positive, because the title, Non-Existence, Non-Knowledge and Non-Bliss, will not matter anything to
Existence, but only to us.   Sankara did not object to Buddha calling It,
as Maha-Sunya, but only said , that, since  the Realized Souls exhibit absolute compassion (which can arise only out of happiness), Maha-
Karuna (as even Zen masters say), it is better to call it as EKB.  than
NE-NK-NB.  I also believe that till the end of this universe, no intelligent
being, can discover what is Consciousness, what is its structure, formula, chemistry and physics of it, because Consciousness cannot be described
or explained by anyone from outside, since it is experience not ratio-
cination.  Even under experience, one cannot reach the realms of
consciousness through psychedelic drugs.  I did not try LSD and mescaline but tried an Indian drug called Lorazepam.  A 4 mg dose of it will give
8 hours sleep.  But I had 20 mg during day time.  It did not take me any-
where, but to sleepless stupor.  People living earlier than 20th century
had tried desi types like cannabin, ganja, "umanthankaai " etc.,  Why, even during Ramana's time, some visitors had used ganja to attain realization  Bhagavan used to caution them against such practices!    Incidentally Appayya Dikshitar, a great Sanskrit poet of 18th century, an ardent Shiva devotee, asked his disciples to give him a generous dose
"umanthankaai "  and sang 500 Sanskrit songs on Shiva during that
near-mad state!  This poem is called "Unmantha-pancha-sat" meaning
"500 poems of a madcap". Arunachala Siva.

General topics / Re: HOW CAN THE SELF BE BEYOND TIME ?
« on: June 08, 2008, 11:55:45 AM »
Dear mick, I think, I am not sure, cosmic mind is Samadhi, that is
Sahaja-Samadhi, where Bhagavan lives, 'thinks and acts'.   This explains how He went to Tiruvottiyur, a place about 200 km from Tiruvannamalai, and placed His hands on the head of Kavyakanta, who was meditating
in a Ganesa Temple and started experiencing unbearable burning sensation on his head, due to rise of the yogic-fire ("kundalini").  On
Bhagavan's touch, the fire subsided.   

General topics / Re: REALITY
« on: June 08, 2008, 11:48:51 AM »
Dear mick, I saw your two postings.  It is only for us, from Kavyakanta
Ganapati Muni to today's Forum members, that one has to subcribe that
Bhagavan is an 'avatara' of Shankara.  Ramana Gita begins saying
that "You are the avatara" of Lord Skanda.  Ganaputi Muni also says
that Bhagavan is an "avatara" of Jnana-Sambandha, another 7th
century Tamil Saivite-poet.  The story goes that when Jnana Sambandha
was a three year old child, and when he was crying on the banks  of a tank in Sirkali (a famous temple-town in Tamil Nadu), Uma appeared with Siva and gave Her breast-milk to the child.  The three year child then
began singing, "Oh Siva, wearing studs on your ears,  you came on a bull
with your consort and stole away my mind..."  Kavyakanta gives three
'mantras' for invoking Bhagavan Ramana:-  (1) Om vacat bhuve! (the
Effulgent), (2) Om Saravana Bhava (the god born on saravana-pond)
(3)  Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya.  Kapali Sastri, who has written
a Sanskrit commentary (which was read out in the presence of Bhagavan
Ramana and approved by Him)  on Ramana Gita, gives meanings and
descriptions of these three mantras.  In the end Bhagavan is neither
Sankara, nor Jnana Sambanda nor Ramana.  He is beyond names and
forms.  But we continue to call Him with several names, till we become
or be Him.  Arunachala Siva.

General topics / Re: Is the Body real?
« on: June 08, 2008, 11:30:11 AM »
Dear mick,  I quite agree with you.  What I was trying to explain
is that  Sankara, in order to satisfy the "world is real" dualists, said
that the world is "real"  but only "seemingly real" (mithya), till one
is realized, where after this will also disappear.    Bhagavan
also said that when  a film-negative is exposed to the sun, it will
not take any other image. If one is self-realized (that is exposed
to the Sun of suns, Brahman), he will not gather any other image.  The
Seer becomes the Screen!  In this context, some astro-physicsts
believe that there is no one universe, but a di-verse, and every thing
that happens in this universe, is happening in the same point of time
and space in the di-verse also!  Bhagavan has also said that " He lives
simulataneously in twenty lokas and is doing  the same thing!"  When
someone asked, "whether Indraloka, Chandraloka, Kailasa and Vaikunta
-- are all real?"  Bhagavan said, "Yes, as you are all sitting before me,
some others are also sitting before someone there!"  Arunachala-Siva.