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Messages - Subramanian.R

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Dive deeply...
« on: July 17, 2008, 01:49:55 PM »
Dear nonduel, "diving deeply" means dwelling in the Heart, where
Brahman or the Self or Guru Ramana is ever.  He is already pulling
to merge in His place or Guru outside is pushing you to merge in
His place.  Arunachala Siva.

Arunachala / Re: Guru Purnima pradiksha
« on: July 17, 2008, 01:46:32 PM »
Dear Blissboy, the Full Moon in India is observed from
17th morning 12.57 PM to 18th afternoon 2.00 PM.  You may
accordingly readjust this to your local American time and observe.
The full moon is seen bright at Tiruvannamalai on 17th night!
Arunachala Siva. 

Forum advice, news & etiquette / Re: Email addresses
« on: July 17, 2008, 01:33:20 PM »
My dear Graham,  My e mail address is:
But, Sir, I had a different problem for the past 15 days.  My
computer broke down and it took 2 weeks to set right and today only
it became alright.  I case I have not received your e mail, I shall send
you a communication.  Thanking you,

Yours truly,

Subramanian. R

Dear srkudai, there are 4 Maha vaakyas in Upanishads.

1. Prajnanam Brahman -  Consciousness is Brahman - Aiteya Up. 5.3.
2. Aham Brahman  -  I am Brahman -  Brhadaranyaka Up. 1.4.10.
3. Tatvam asi - You are That - Chandogya Up. 6.8.7.
4. Ayamatmaa Brahman - This self is Brahman - Brhadaranya Up.2.8.9.

Any bhavana is okay and the preceptors have prescribed one that suits
a disciple.  It is like a Zen Koan.  One has to work out that koan given by
the Zen Master.

I AM GOD or GOD IS - Anything is okay that suits one.  It is the 'bhavana' or conviction that is more important.

Arunachala Siva.   

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Mankuthimmana Kagga
« on: July 08, 2008, 11:13:12 AM »
"Mankuthimmana Kagga", -- 'Mankuthimmana sang thus" is a Kannada
work, comprising of 945 verses.  It is written by Sri D.V. Gundappa, a
famous Kannada poet who lived in early 20th century. (1887-1975).  This is the poem of ethics for men and women and it shows the ways to salvation.
I do not know to read Kannada and hence I read an English translation.

A sample: Verse 932:  "Brahman is the ocean of all the grace of 'ragas',
Like mohana, ananda bhairavi, sankarabharana, Sahana, kurinji, kedrara,
and kapi, Sink deep into it".
Verse 945 says: "Surrender to the mystery of life, the true Reality,
Surrender to the endeavour to make it blossom into a flower,
Surrender to the majestic peace of the Inner Being,
And surrender to the Atman of the Universe!"

Arunachala Siva.

Dear srkudai,  The dance of Siva has given rise to many many esoteric interpretations by Saiva saints and yogis.  The Nandi or the bull
is "Mooladharam" and the first centre among the 6 chakras of the body,
and this is in the genitals.  This chakra gives rise to lust, anger, fear
and other feelings.  If this is properly focussed towards the Sahasraram,
which is on the head, as Nandi is focussing on Siva, one gets the
divine experience of merging in the Self, Siva.  In Sahasraram, the yogis
say that one will experience the effu lgence of Siva, shooting from his
raised foot ('Kunchitapatam') and the sound of the gingling of Sakti's
anklets! Because, Sahasraram is the place of union of Siva and Sakti.
Sankara's Soundarya Lahari gives beautiful description of these six
centres.  (I have to write a separate post, if I have to elaborate on
Soundarya Lahari). There are separate Siva temples, for each Chakra.
Tiruvannamalai, where Bhagavan lived when He was in body, represents
'ajna'.  Tiruvachakam of Manikkavachakar, a beautiful poem of 51 subgroups, has got 3 commentaries!  One describing the poems as suited to
Bhakti marga, another to Yoga marga and the third to Jnana marga.
In Sivananda Lahari, Sankara asks:  O Lord, the whole universe is your abode, whereas you choose to live in burial ground.  There are many servants to serve you, but you choose the dead bodies.  There are many foods offered by devotees, whereas you choose to beg.  The ether is your clothing, but you wear a tiger's skin as lower garment  and an elephant's skin as upper garment.  When everyone rushes to drink nectar, you choose to drink the poison.  What a wonder!  You keep the monkey of my mind, with you and control it!  In Siva temple, the "balipeetam", where the prasad
is placed, and the "dwaja-sthambam", the tall metal structure, where the flag is hoised during festivals, represent the female and male principles.

Arunachala Siva.   

General topics / Re: HOW CAN THE SELF BE BEYOND TIME ?
« on: July 07, 2008, 04:29:29 PM »
Dear gorak, your questions will take at least 5000 words to answer.  I shall briefly tell, to the extent, I know.

There are several concepts.  "Maya" is prikriti or Sakti or all the singing and crying and dancing of this world.  But 'maya' is co-existent with Purusha or the Self or Brahman.  To merge in the Self, the people in the world have to overcome this 'maya lila'.

Why Sankara, Ramanuja, Madhva and Bhagavan write all these works and spoke all these words.  The answer would be that they came down from the Pure Consciousness to tell people.  If all the self-realized persons decide not to speak or write or even to live, then how can we poor fellows understand anything about Brahman or the ways to merge in the Self.  Hence those elders came down from the state of Pure Consciousness, to do all these things.  Bhagavan used the word "Suddha-manas" or "Pure mind" to explain these things.  With pure mind, these great teachers spoke and taught the way.

Again, why different ways of teaching?  Sankara felt that merging in the Self is the highest goal.  He also wrote so many bhakti poems, for the sake of less evolved people.  Ramanuja said that even though Brahman is the one without second, the devotees would like to enjoy the bliss of Brahman from a distance!  It is like looking at sugar candy and appreciating it without eating it.  He said at the time of great dissolution, these devotees would merge in Brahman, that is, candy will be given after mother finished her work.   The Saiva Siddhanta is very close to Ramanuja's idea, the qualified non-dualism, Visishtadvaitam.  But they say that the devotees would enjoy Siva and merge in Brahman after dissolution.  The god-in-the-near, became a big problem and this gave a shift from philosophy to religion.  There came Vaishnavites, Saivites, Sakti-worshippers, Sun-worshippers, Skanda-worshippers and Ganapati-worshippers.  In fact, Sankara himself, gave these 6 paths in his times.

Madhva who came as the latest said that there is no merging business, the jiva or the devotee should remain ever as servants of Narayana or Krishna and jiva can never become one with the Brahman. 

The fun is everyone has interpreted upanishads, gita and brahma sutra, the same stuff, in different ways!

Then came, further schools.  Vallabhacharya's Krishna-Advaita, Nimbarkar and others. 

Within Vaishanvism, came again two big branches.  The southern sect and the northern sect.  The southern sect said that Tamil and Tamil songs of (4000 verses) devotees are more superior to Vedas, while the northern sect thought Veda is supreme.  The fight came to such an extent, they had two different types of 'marks' on their foreheads!  The one is called U type and the other is called Y type.

Brahman (sorry for the expression) must be 'laughing' to his heart's content,  I mean, if he has got a heart and a mouth.

Arunachala Siva.           

General topics / Re: HOW CAN THE SELF BE BEYOND TIME ?
« on: July 07, 2008, 01:25:48 PM »
Dear 'gorak', I agree that the samadhi is a state, where there is no mind and there is no time and space, since these two are conceptions of the mind.  The question naturally arises, how then Sankara wrote all his works, debated with persons following other sub-vedic faiths like" karma kanda" etc.  How then Bhagavan composed all His works, talked to people etc.,  The samadhi again is said to be of various types, one which without body, another  with and without body etc.,  Kindly see Ribhu Gita.  Bhagavan's state is Sahaja Samadhi, in which He lived for 54 years, talked, composed etc., This is where He was living as if one is in a dream.  In such a long dream, he did all the work, as we cry, laugh, eat and talk to people in our 'ordinary dreams.'  This is the state in which all the Self realized people did their wordly work, be it Janaka, Sankara, Jnana Sambandha or Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi.

Arunachala Siva.     

Manisha Panchakam is again a small treatise by Sankara.  It contains only five verses and narrate a 'story' that happed in Kasi.  Sankara took a bath in Ganges and was going towards Viswanatha Temple.  On his way, he met an 'untouchable' and he asked him to get away from his path, since he was an untouchable!  (go away, go away -" gaccha, gaccha")   Siva is said to have come in the disguise of that untouchable.  To Sankara's order, the untouchable asks:   " Oh! the great among Brahmins!  This body made of food came from a body that was made of food.  This Chaitanya (the Self) is from another Chaitanya.  Which one, do you want me to clear off?" This
Sun is reflecting as on the waters of Ganges and also on the
waters of the gutter near my house.  It reflects in the golden pot as well as in mudpot.  This great bliss is there in every living being, whether there is any difference between a Brahmin and a lowly dog-eater?"

After these words  struck like a lightning in Sankara, he replies in five verses, where he states about 3 states of waking etc.,in which the Brahman is the Witness. This great Bliss is all pervasive and I misunderstood it due to my 3 gunas, sattva etc.,  I have understood this by the great words of my Guru (that is the untouchable).  This great bliss is an ocean, from the drop of which Indra and other devas are satisfied and the great sages are feeling complete." 

Arunachala Siva.   

General topics / Re: Ramana Maharishi's speech
« on: July 07, 2008, 12:53:44 PM »
My dear gorak,  to my knowledge, there is no recorded message of
Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi.  People like David Godman, has done an
extensive researh on this.  There is no recorded message.

Arunachala Siva.   

General topics / Re: Ramana Maharishi's speech
« on: July 07, 2008, 12:36:28 PM »
My dear gorak, there is no recorded speech of Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi.  There are only photographs and short, black and white
video coverages.  This is our misfortune.

Arunachala Siva.

Dear non-duel, thanks for your message.  Bhagavan has helped
devotees of different faiths in self-realization.  e.g. Mastan was born a
Muslim.  There were several British of Catholic and Protestant faith, who came to Him.  He has said that 'the Self' is the same for everyone, all
living beings including birds and animals.  He used to quote, as you already know,  from Abraham and Eccelesiastics,  "I AM I AM' and  'the fools heart is on the left and the wise one's is on the right.  I studied in a christian school and christian college, where Bible class was there on everyday.
I studied Daniel's story and the story of the prodigal son when I was
fourteen.  In fact, I like the Gospel according to Mark very much.

Arunachala Siva. 

Atma Jnana Upadesa Vidhi, is again a small treatise on Advaita by
Sankara. It comprises of 72 axioms in prose form detailing the 'seer'
'seen' concept mentioned by Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi in 'Who am I?'
A sample.
Axioms 4,5, and 6 of Part IV says: That the Self is the Fourth means that It consists of Consciousness only and nothing else, like a homogeneous piece of gold.  Thought it is the Fourth, It is not different from the three well-known viz., waking, dream and sleep.  We call It the Fourth, because It is the Witness of the other three states, as Consciousness in proximity.  One has to invariably arrive at a void, if the Fourth were a different state, as in that case, the truth about the Self could not be known.

Axiom 13 says:  A man of knowledge directly knows within himself that he has attained the Self-Knowledge.

Arunachala Siva. 

Dear non duel,  You asked about the 'bhavana' which comes under paragraphs 45-50 of Essence of Ribhu Gita.(Chapter 24 and 25 of the original).  You also asked whether chanting Chapter 26 of can alone be used for daily recititation.  I did not answer this point clearly and told you that the entire Ribhu Gita or any chapter(s) may be used.  Coincidentally, I was reading David Godman's 'The Power of the Presence'.  This is a 3-volume book, where David writes various things about select devotees of Bhagavan and has also included certain information, which has not been published before.  Under the chapter - N.R. Krishanmoorthy Aiyer (the
gentleman who had condensed Ribhu Gita in prose, the book which you had mentioned) has written the following information, which has not been 
published before:-

" During October 1941, I asked Bhagavan, 'Please select me the most important portion of Ribhu Gita, for daily recital.'
Bhagavan took the book and showed me the 26th chapter and said:
'The recital of this chapter is itself 'samadhi'.' "
Arunachala Siva.

General topics / Re: I don't know what to do anymore
« on: July 06, 2008, 12:15:47 PM »
Dear Matthew, As Davemahar said, fear of death is the primordial fear,
from where every other fear sprouts.  Here again, fear of death only is fear and not death by itself.  Fear of death is fear of losing something known to you, the body, the senses, the mind et al.  Please read 'Who am I?' and
that is more than sufficient.  You can read Zen Buddhism, Bible and whole
range of western philosophy -- from Francis Bacon to Kant, Spinoza, Shophenheur, Nietszhe and Bertrand Russel.  In my case, at least, all these readings only confused me.  A little bit of Sankara and then Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi will do.  Good luck. 

Arunachala Siva.