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Messages - Subramanian.R

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (39)
« on: August 21, 2008, 02:13:57 PM »
The Chapter IX continues....

Verse 97:-  Meditation is left to his will, for his relase has been
achieved through knowledge.  From knowledge alone, comes
release.  This, the scriptures announce with dream beats.

Verse 98:- (Doubt):  If a knower does not meditate, he would
be drawn to external affairs.  (Reply):  Let him happily engage
himself in them.  What is the objection for a knower to be
so engaged?

Verse 99:- (Doubt): This sort of reasoning is wrong, for there
the scriptures will be violated.  (Reply):  If so, what is right
reasoning please?  (Doubt):  Right reasoning is to follow the
injuctions and prohibitions of the scriptures. (Reply):  But they
do not apply to the enlightened.

Verse 100:-  All these injunctions and prohibitions are meant
for those who believe themselves to belong to a certain caste
or station and stage of life. 

Verse 101:-  The knower is convinced that castes, station etc.,
are creations of Maya and that they refer to the body and not
to the Self whose nature is Pure Consciousness.

Verse 102:- The clear sighted knower from whose heart all
attachment has vanished is a liberated soul whether he performs
or not, concentration or action.

Verse 103:-  He whose mind is free from all desires or former
impressions has nothing to gain from either action or inaction,
meditation (Samadhi) or repetitions of holy formulae.

Verse 104:-   The Self is associationless and everything other
than the Self is a display of the magic of Maya.  When a mind
has such a firm conviction, wherefrom will any desire or
impressions come in it?

to be contd...

Arunachala Siva.     

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (38)
« on: August 21, 2008, 01:23:41 PM »
The Chapter IX continues....

Verse 87:-  Similarly, a man who practises meditation, one pointedly,
indifferently performs his worldly affairs.  But a man who has
realized the truth, fulfils his worldly duties well, as they do not
come in conflict with his knowlege.

Verse 88:-  This world is illusory, Maya, and the Self is by nature
pure Consciousness.  How can such knowledge be opposed to
his worldly activities?

Verse 89:-  To perform activities, the world need not be thought
real nor the Self as insentient matter.  To do so the roight means
only are necessary.

Verse 90:-  These means are the mind, the speech, body and
external objects.  They do not disappear on enlightenment.
So why can't he engage himself in wordly affairs?

Verse 91:- If he controls and concentrates his mind, he is a
meditator and not a knower of truth.  To know a pot, the mind
need not be concentrated.

Verse 95:- Once the nature of the Self has been conclusively
determined, the knower can speak of it, think of it or meditate
on it at will. 

Arunachala Siva.           

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (37)
« on: August 21, 2008, 01:15:20 PM »
The Chapter IX continues....

Verse 79:-  A certain Brahmachari used to go for alms,
keeping his mind his identity with the vital within him.

Verse 80:-  Meditation depends on the will of a man whether
he is to do or not to do it in a different way.  On should therefore
always continue the thought current.

(Knowledge once arisen cannot be prevented but meditation
depends on the will of the meditator,  so it must be continued)

Verse 81:-  A student, diligent in reciting the Vedas, reads
or recites them even in his dreams through the force of habit.
Similarly, one who practises meditation, continues it even
in his dreams.

Verse 82:-  Giving up contrary thoughts, if a man ceaselessly
meditates, he meditates even in his dreams, becuase of the
deep impression.

Verse 83:-  There is no doubt that while experiencing the
results of his fructifying karma in a man, because of his
strong impressions, is able to meditate without intermssion,
just as a man attached to wordly objects always thinks of them.

Verse 84:-  A woman devoted to a paramour, though engaged
in household duties, will all the time be dwelling in mind on the
pleasures with him.

Verse 85:- While enjoying in mind the pleasures of the company
of her lover, her household duties though not much disturbed,
are managed indifferently.

Verse 86:-  The woman with attachment to a paramour cannot
fully do the work as a woman attached to her domestic duties
does, with enthusiasm.

to be contd.....

Aruncahala Siva.       

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (36)
« on: August 21, 2008, 12:57:57 PM »
The chapter IX continues....

Verse 70:-  (Doubt): Combining and thinking of these indications,
do not fit with meditation on the attributeless Brahman. (Reply);
Then, you doubt is directed to Vyasa himself, and not against
me alone!

Verse 71:- (Doubt):  As (Vyasa) has not asked for the inclusion
of the forms susch as of the sn with golden beard etc., meditation
on the attributeless Brahman is not contradicted by him.  (Reply):
Be satisfied with that.  We also do not ask for that.

(Chandogya Up. 1.6.6.)

Verse 72:-  (Doubt): Qualities are only indirect indications. They
cannot enter into the true nature of Brahman.  (Reply):  Let them
be so.  Meditate on Brahman thus indicated.

Verse 73:- (Doubt):  The Self is here indirectly indicated by
positive qualities like'bliss' etc.,  and by negative qualities like
'not gross' etc.,  One should meditate on the indivisible,
homogeneous Self as "That I am".

Verse 74:- (Doubt): What is the difference between the knowlege
and and meditation?  (Reply):  Listen, knowledge depends on the
object, whereas mediation depends on the will of the person

Verse 75:- By the practise of enquiry, the knowledge of Brahman
arises.  Then it cannot be prevented whether one likes it or not.
Such knowledge, by the mere fact of its arising, destroys all
the ideas of the reality of the world.

Verse 76:-  On acquiring knowledge the aspirant experiences
unbroken satisfaction and a feeling of having accomplished all
that was to be accomplished.  He becomes liberated in life and
awaits the wearing out of his fructifying karma.

Verse 77:-  On the other handm a believing man, putting his
faith in the teachings of his teacher and without practising
enquiry, should meditate on the object prescribed without
being distracted by other thoughts.

Verse 78:-  He should continue the practise of meditation
until he realizes himself to be identical with his object of
meditation and then continue this thought till death.

(Brahma Sutras 4.1.12)

to be contd....

Arunachala Siva.

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (35)
« on: August 21, 2008, 12:44:24 PM »
The Chaper IX continues...

Verse  61:-  (Doubt): But Brahman as an object of knowledge
is unreal.  (Reply): Why not as an object of meditation too?
(Doubt): Covering and apprehending by Vrittis is knowledge.
(Reply): Similarly, doing that is also meditation.

(Verse 7.90 says:  Meditation as the attributeless Brahman
is just as possible as indirect intellectual knowledge of Brahman.
Both have practical value.)

Verse 62:- (Doubt): Why are you so devoted to meditation on
the attributeless Brahman?  (Reply): Why are you so opposed
to it? Say that. As there are many Sruti texts prescribing meditation
on the attributeless Brahman, it is not proer to say that there is
no authority for it.

Verse 63:- Meditatation on the attributeless Brahman has been
prescribed in the Nrsimha Uttara Tapaniya Upanishad, Prasna
Upanishad, Katha Upanishad Maandukya Upanishad and other

Verse 64:- This method of meditation of the attributeless Brahman
has been in the Panchikarana Vartika by Suresvara. (Doubt): This
meditation is the means of indirect knowledge of Brahman (but
not of liberation. (Reply): We do not say that it is not so.

Verse 65:- (Doubt):  But most of the people do not practise this
type of meditation. (Reply): Let them not do.  How can the meditation
be blamed for the shortcomings of the meditator?

Verse 66:- People of spritually dull intellect repeat sacred
formulae to acuqire power over others, finding it more
immediately fruitful than meditation on Brahman, with
attributes.  There are people more dull witted who concentrate
only on agriculture.

Verse 67:- Let the dull witted do what they like!  Here we speak
of meditation on the Absolute.  Since it is one of Vidya or Upasana,
all the qualifications of Brahman described in the various branches
of the Veda must be gathered for meditation.

Verse 68:-  The positive qualities of bliss etc., are all to be
coordinated into meditation, on Brahman.  This has been told
by Vyasa in the "Anandaaya....' Sutra.

(Brahma Sutras 3.3.11)

Verse 69:-  Similarly Vyasa speaks of all the negative indications
of Brahman such as 'not gross' in the 'Akshardhiyaam....' Sutra.

(Brahma Sutras 3.3.33)

to be contd.....

Arunachala Siva.   

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (34)
« on: August 21, 2008, 12:27:05 PM »
The Chapter IX continues...

Verse 53:-  In some cases, the enquiry itself is impeded because,
of the result of their inner evil deeds as the Sruti says: Even
to hear about Him, it is not advisable to many. (Katha Up. 1.2.7)

Verse 54:- If a man cnnot practise enquiry, either due to extreme
dullness of intellect or for want of other favourable circumstances,
let him always keep the mind on Brahman.

Verse 55:- As it is possible to continue the thought-curren
regarding Brahman with attributes, meditation on the
attributeless Brahman is also not possible. 

(Upasana, meditation or worhsip is the prcoess of keeping
the mind in the thought of the object worhsipped.  As a result
the mind takes the form of the object.)

Verse 56:- (Doubt):  Brahman is beyond speech and mind and
so cannot be meditated upon.  (Reply): Then there can be
no knowledge of Brahman too!

Verse 57:-(Doubt):  Brahman is known as beyond speech and
mind. (Reply): Then, why cannot Brahman meditated upon as
beyond speech and mind?

(Meditation as "I am Brahman, who is beyond speech and mind"
is alright for Brahman is self-evident)

Verse 58:- (Doubt):  If Brahman can be meditated upon, He
becomes invested with attributes. (Reply): That happens if
He is taken as knowable. (Doubt): Brahman is knowable by
'lakshana', indirect indication.  (Reply): Then meditate upon
Brahman that way, that is, by 'lakshana'.

Verse 59:- (Doubt):  The Sruti saying: "Know that alone to be
Brahman, which is beyond the range of speech, and mind and
not that which the people worship, prohibits meditation on
Brahman."  (Kena Up. 1.5)

Verse 60:- (Reply): Equally, Brahman cannot be an object of
knowledge, for the Sruti says: "Brahman is other than that
which has been known." (Doubt): The Sruti also says that
Brahman can nover be known. (Reply): So also, it says that
He can be meditated upon.  So meditate on Him basing upon
these Vedic texts.       

(Kena Up. 1.4
Amrtabindu Up. 6; Katha Up. 1.3.12; Brahadaranyaka Up.4.4.31
Panchadasi 7.86-87)

to be contd...

Arunachala Siva.   

Dear Raju,  For people who are not having enought determination
to do Self Enquiry, Bhagavan suggested Surrender, the total
surrender, like the King who was about to place his right foot
on the right stirrup of the horse, and but asked to wait by
the Guru for next command!

Arunachala Siva.

Dear Raju, self enquiry is doing.  Being the Self is being.  As
Bhagavan said:  Be still and your are the Self.

Arunachala Siva.

My dear 'srkuadi',  Your Ashtavakra Samhita posts are excellent.
Please continue.  I am trying to pick up my Sri Ramakrishna Math,
book, and read concurrently the passages in the same evening.
Thank you.  Your story of Ashtavakra's curse is known to be but I have forgotten it. Forgetfulness is a sin.  I am happy.

Arunachala Siva.

General topics / Re: Meditation
« on: August 21, 2008, 11:50:58 AM »
Dear srkudai,  The answers for the states of meditation are slowly
coming!  Good!

Bhagavan mentions three types of meditation in Upadesa Saram,

With words audible outside,  the mantra japa,
With words within, no audible, the silent  mantra japa
No words, only a 'bhavana',  I am Siva, I am Siva   or I am Brahman
I am Brahman.

The first two  are 'thinking medittion'.  The third one, is non-
thinking'.  Bhagavan uses the word 'unnuthal' in Tamil Upadesa
Undiyar (Upadesa Saram).   Unnuthal means a bhavana.  It is
continuous like flow of oil, thyla dhara.

So meditation can be thoughtful or thoughtless.  But in the
third, there is bhavana - mental conviction.   So all are dual
and not nondual.

Arunachala Siva.   

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Re: Panchadasi - (32)
« on: August 21, 2008, 11:41:11 AM »
Dear Raju, Yes, faith and perseverance are the key words.
Shirdi Sai Baba also mentioned two key words:  Sraddha and Saburi.
Both Sai Baba and Bhagavan have always said:-

"Leaving all your cleverness, come unto Me.  I shall remove
the shackles of your mind."

Arunachala Siva.

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Re: Panchadasi - (31)
« on: August 21, 2008, 11:38:50 AM »
Dear Raju, Yes,  Bhagavan made it easy for the 20th and
other future centuries, without pedantics and semantics,
without verbiage.  That is why, it is Brahmasthra!

Arunachala Siva.

General topics / Re: Finite consciousness-infinite consciousness
« on: August 21, 2008, 11:32:19 AM »
Dear 'srkudai',  Yes.  The mind carries only the thoughts, and
not physical objects.  That is why the mind is a bundle of thoughts,
the "sukshuma rupa".  Bhagavan says in Who am I?, Mind carries
"the breath", which is mind's 'sthula rupa'. 

For that matter, all the senses carry only formelsss objects, the
tongue, the sweetness of halwa, the nose, the fragrance of
jasmin, the eye, the beauty of a girl, the ear, the sweetness of
the voice of M.S. Subbalaksmi, the skin, the feeling of a warm
bed on a cold night etc., They do not 'carry' the objects per se.

Again, Who am I?  -  Bhagavan's first work does not leave me!

Arunachala Siva.   

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Re: Panchadasi - (28)
« on: August 21, 2008, 11:25:30 AM »
Dear Raju, We are all in the same boat, seeking the grace of
our Guru, the One without a second, for this error, which is
His Grace.

Arunachala Siva. 

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Re: Panchadasi - (27)
« on: August 21, 2008, 11:24:10 AM »
Dear Raju, Exactly.  The Viveka Choodamani and Kaivaylaym
say that these people would behave, like children, madcaps,
drunkards, fools and persons afflicted by devils.

Arunachala Siva.