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Messages - Subramanian.R

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: A quote
« on: July 03, 2008, 01:36:57 PM »
Dear wio, who said Bhakti and Jnana cannot go together?  Bhakti is
not the cup of Advaita's tea?  This question has been put to Bhagavan
on many many occasions when He was in body.  Bhakti is the mother of
Jnana.  Bhakti to deity outside is known to all of us.  When this bhakti
matures, you start expressing bhakti within you.  It is like going to the
temple and praying in the home-altar.  After these prayers within, you
graduate to bhakti to the Formless and Nameless.  To meditate constantly on the dictum, "I am Brahman" takes one to merger in the Self, which is
Jnana.  When Sivaprakasam Pillai asked Bhagavan in 1901-02:  "Who is the greatest of all devotees?", He had replied:  "One who gives himself to the Self, is the greatest devotee."  Sankara, who is the foremost exponent of Advaita, has written a number of songs, not only on Siva, but also on
Vishnu, Rama, Krishana, Ganesh, Subramanya, Devi and others.  He has
prescribed bhakti  as the first step for beginners, who cannot enquire about the Self directly.

Arunachala Siva.       

Dear nonduel and srkudai.  You have mentioned about paragraph 45 to
50 of Krishanmoorthi Aiyer's "Essence of Ribhu Gita."  I checked up with
Tamil Ribhu Gita of Ulaganatha Swamigal.  The Tamil version is only
slightly easier!  The word 'bhavana' is a difficult word, and can be translated as 'conviction'.  I give below the table of the two books.
Paragraph 45 - Chapter 24.  27
Paragraph 46 - Chapter 24.  28
Paragraph 47 - Chapter 24.  31

Well, these three paragraphs pertain to Chapter 24, titled, " Attainment of Bliss by the conviction of the Blissful Nature.

I shall paraphrase to the extent I understand.  'The Liberation will come
quickly only by such conviction (that indeed I am the Supreme Brahman).
By learning, Liberation will come only gradually. Hence, the seekers of
Liberation, eager to attain the undivided Supreme Liberation quickly,
should resort to continuous practice of the sanctified conviction and truly practise this for a long time.   Those who are unable to attain this by
conviction, should read this aloud." (Verse 27)

"The past impression of differentiation over a long period of time (I am
the body  -idea) can be destroyed only by this practice of steeping oneself
to the undivided conviction and cannot be easily eliminated by stray thoughts of steadfastness in the One Supreme." (Verse 28)

"Some undisciplined ignorants say that all this differentiation are due to
time and other causes.  Their arguments are entirely wrong.  By the power of the Supreme Siva, the ultimate refuge, all the superimposition on the substratum and even that superimposition is realized to be the undivided Supreme Siva, if one inquires into the Truth,Arwith conviction."(Verse 31).

Dear non duel, I shall write about Chapter 25 (Paragraphs 48.,49 and 50
of Aiyer's book) in a separate post.

Arunachala Siva.

Dear srkudai, A day will come even everything will stop, all this writing
coming out of ego's mischief, and from that day,Silence will prevail.
Arunachala Siva.

General Discussion / Re: Bhagavan Ramana and other gurus
« on: July 03, 2008, 12:38:23 PM »
Dear srkudai,  your one sentence observation is not quite clear to me.
Do you mean that you are not able to know about a guru, becuase he is
not in physical body?  Tiruvalluvar, a great Tamil poet of ethics has said
about 2000 years ago, in his Tirukkural, that one's greatness or worth
is known by what he has left behind.  Bhagavan has left behind Him,
a good number of small Tamil works which are quite crisp.  His talks
have been recorded for about 4 years each by Munagala Venkatramaiah,
Devaraja Mudaliar and Suri Nagamma.   There is Ramanasramam, which
you can visit.  There is Tiruvannamalai, the Hill, which attracted Him and
made Him live for 54 years in and near the Hill.  He has Himself said,
a Guru is one in whose Presence, you get  Peace.  You can read David
Godman's Power of Presence, a book on His devotees, who were blessed by Him through His Presence.  Even though He has shed His body, His
Presence is being felt by many many people, who read His books, His
biography, the records of His talks, His photographs etc.,   I am sure that
if I have understood your question correctly, these answers should help you.  Arunachala Siva.

"Vaakya Vritti" is again a small treatise of 53 slokas by Sankara.
The book is an illuminating work of Sankara, explaining the
import of the axiom of identity - Tat vam Asi.  This is the corner
stone of Advaita Vedanta and this Maha Vakya is seen  in Chandogya
Upanisad (6.8.7).  A sample.  Verses 49 & 50:- "One should go on
studying the srutis and thinking over their meanings as well as practising the control of internal organs and other virtues, until the right understanding of the meaning of the sentence, I am Brahman, becomes quite firm.  When this Knowledge becomes firm by the grace of the Sruti,
and the Guru, one has the cause of the whole of this transmigratory
existence absolutely negated for ever."  Bhagavan has mentioned about
I am Brahman, in Talks No. 92 (7.11.1935) and again about Thou art
That, in Talkss No. 511 (9.9.1938).  In the latter conversation, He has
said that Panchapada Mahavakyani (mahavakyas with five words) e.g.,
Tattvmasi Atinijam (You are That is the great truth) signifies the only
Truth and so many efforts and so much discipline are said to be necessary for eradicating the non-existing 'avidya'!   Arunachala Siva.   

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: fighting with ego
« on: July 02, 2008, 11:35:34 AM »
Bhagavan has also said that the term to 'realize' is  not correct.
What is there to 'real-ize'?  He had asked.  The step is to remove
the unreal and not realize.  Arunachala Siva.

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: fighting with ego
« on: July 02, 2008, 11:31:02 AM »
Dear Mark, non-duel, both you have explained it nicely.  The necklace
example of Bhagavan has hit the nail.  He also said about 'the tenth man'
who was never missing.  Perhaps, most of us are used to the word
'becoming'.  We want to 'become' so much.  We want to become rich,
we want to become great, we want to become Presidents, Prime Ministers etc., One is always the Self.  One need not become the Self.  Okay.  When
I mentioned death of ego, it is "mano-nasa", which Bhagavan refers.
Mind and thoughts will be there, even if one is SELF, but this mind is the
'pure mind'.  Bhagavan used the word 'suddha-manas'. 'Suddha manas'
may have 'suddha-yojana',  'pure thoughts'.  Arunachala Siva. 

As the name implies, Laghu Vaasudeva Mananam, is the condensation
of a larger treatise Vaasudeva Mananam, attributed to one Vedanta Yati,
who is said to have lived some three centuries back on the banks of
Narmada, in Western India. The bigger version is not now available.
This is a prose work, which talks  about the four requisites of a book, discrimination between eternal and temporal, dispassion, the thirst for liberation and attaining the Guru. Then it speaks about nature of Atman and anatman, distinct from three bodies, five sheaths, five pranas, its apparent attribute as Witness and its essential  nature as Existence-Knowledge-Bliss.  Then about the theories of gradual and simultaneous creation.  In between, it discusses about the literal and indicative purports of Tatvam Asi, 'Thou art That.'

The prose is direct.  There is no mellifluous and alluring poetry.  The
book has been published by Sri Ramakrishana Math, Chennai.

Arunachala Siva.

'Upadesa Saahasri' is again a work by Sankara, which is partly
in prose and partly in poetry.    It starts with various steps that the
teacher would prescribe to the disciple, then speaks about negation
of all attributes, merging of the mind with the Witness, nature of
the Witness and the nature of dream and memory and concludes with
the description of the Maha Vakya:  Thou art That.    One sample:
"Even powerful beings like Brahma and Indra are objects of pity
to that knower of the Self, who has no fear about the world not is
afraid of death. He is a Knower of the Self, to whom the ideas of
'me' and 'mine' have become quite meaningless."  Bhagavan has
described the states of wakeful, dream and sleep states in the same
vein as Sankara, but there is no direct mention about this treatise,
in  'Talks' or 'Day by Day'.  Arunachala Siva.

Vedanta-sara is again a small advatic treatise by Sadananda, disciple of
Sankara.  Just any other advaitic book, it analyses step by step, the
nature of gross body, subtle body, mind, nescience and the states of
waking, dreaming and deep sleep states and finally talks about Self-
realization with the help of a Guru.  The characteristics of a Jivan-
Mukta is given at the end.  The book is 227 verses, said to be written
in 15th century.  It cross refers Upadesa-Sahasri of Sankara and
Naishkarmya Siddhi of Sureswara, another disciple of Sankara.  Verses
221-225 state: " He who does not, see anything in the waking state as
in sound sleep; who,though seeing duality does not really see it as he sees only the Absolute; who though engaged in work, is really inactive; he
and none other is the knower of the Self.  In his case, only good desires
persist, as do his habits of eating, moving etc., which existed before the dawn of knowledge.  Or, he may become indifferent to all good and evil. After realization, humiliy and other attributes, which are steps to knowledge, as also such virtues as non-injury etc., persist like so many
ornaments. Such qualities like non violence etc., come spontaneously to a man who has acquired Self-Knowledge."     

Arunachala Siva.   

General topics / Re: I don't know what to do anymore
« on: June 30, 2008, 11:35:42 AM »
Dear Matthew, adding to what Shivani has already covered,
Bhagavan has said going to work, for minimum worldly comforts, like  some money for simple vegetarian food, a shelter, clothes do not
come in the way of your pursuing Wisdom.  One need not go to
a lonely island or jungle to pursue Wisdom.  One can live in this
world among people and can still do that.  One should not direct noisy
his mind in unncessary worldly matters or in other people's jobs.
One can live anywhere, if he could control his mind.  Similarly,
one need not separately allot time for meditation.  Meditation can
be the underlying montone in your work-situation.  Arunachala Siva.   

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: fighting with ego
« on: June 30, 2008, 11:18:53 AM »
When ego (along with mind, intellect and mind stuff) dies,
one becomes the Self, Existence-Awareness-Bliss.
Arunachala Siva.

Dear nonduel, Thanks.  Arunachala Siva.

Maandukya Upanisad which comes in Atharvana Veda, comprises
only 12 verses. Gaudapada, guru of Sankara's guru, has written
a verse commentary on this, and it runs to 215 slokas, and is called,
Gaudapada Karika.   It speaks of Ajata Vada, "the theory of no creation-no cessation-no liberation". Many devotees of Bhagavan ascribe Him to ajata vada.  The Upanisad speaks of 'vichara' as the only sure way to merge in Self.  Sankara has written a commentary to the Upanisad and also to the Karika.  Perhaps no other Upanisad has given rise to so much
controversy as Maandukya Upanisad.  Dr. S. Radhakrishnan has said
that the philosophy of Gaudapada and Sankara are different from each
other and this point has been discussed in "Talks" No. 383 and 399. Day Day, entry  of 21.11.1945 (Night) also mentions about a discussion on
this.  Prof. Das Gupta, who wrote elaborately on Indian Philosphy said
that Gaudapada was a Buddhist and he borrowed the ideas from
Nagarjuna Karika and Lankavatara Sutra!  The Upanisad and Karika,
discusses the three states of waking, dream and deep sleep (each one
is given a symbolic Sanskrit name) and the state of 'turiya' or 'turiyateeta', the fourth.  Advaita Ashrama (of Sri Ramakrishna Math), Kolkata has brought a beautiful English translation of MU and Karika
by Swami Nikhilanada. The fourth chapter of Karika, tells about
'alata shanti', that is, quenching of the firebrand.  If one takes a firebrand and rotates it, one sees the 'circle of light' around it.  If the
firebrand is quenched, the circle also disappears.  Thus, all the world
is the 'circle' made out by the firebrand, that is, mind.  If the mind is
killed, the world also no longer appears.    Arunachala Siva.             

General Discussion / Non duel telling me that I am enlightening!!!
« on: June 29, 2008, 12:14:46 PM »
Dear Non-duel,  I am enlightening?  ha ha ha!  I am a mudpot
with some water on top, and I am reflecting the Sun, the son
of Siva, Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi, matchless after Sankara.
Anyway thanks for being nice to me.  I shall continue you write
some nonsense, till I become silent by my Guru's Grace.
Arunachala Siva.