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Messages - Subramanian.R

General Discussion / Re: Absolute reality
« on: August 20, 2008, 10:58:36 AM »
Dear DRPVSSN Raju,  Reality is alone IS.  It is all pervasive,
the One without a second.  There is a beautiful piece in
Ribhu Gita:

How can I circumambulate, when there is no space with you?
How can I bathe you, when there is no water without you?
How can I garland you, when there are no flowers beyond you?
How can I prostrate you, since your legs are everywhere?

Arunachala Siva. 

General Discussion / Re: Sleep-consciousness
« on: August 20, 2008, 10:54:51 AM »
Dear Sankar, in sleep, the mind is temporarily withdrawn, but is
not killed.  That is all.

Arunachala Siva.

General Discussion / Re: Seeker-Goal
« on: August 20, 2008, 10:52:59 AM »
Dear Sankar, Yes.  Forgetfullness is a sin, as pointed out by
Viveka Choodamani.

Arunachala Siva.

General Discussion / Re: Self-consciousness-Thinking
« on: August 20, 2008, 10:51:06 AM »
Dear DRPVSSN Raju and srkudai,  Both of you are correct.
In the mind-body complex, in which all of us are, there is
outward and inward.  All seekers who are asking doubts
do have outwards and inwards.  This is in the path to self
enquiry.  Bhagavan's suggestion is:  No doubt all thoughts are
coming, but, first restrict it to one thought:  Who am I? Then,
try to annhiilate that one thought also by merging in the Self.
Getting angry with srkudai, dear DRPVSSN Raju, is quite natural,
because, our thoughts are questioned by another's thoughts.
Dear srkudai, do not feel upset, because our thoughts are
not appreciated.  When we all reach a thoughtless state, there
will be no letters in the Forum, and on that day, when Graham
closes the Forum, all of us are self realized!!!

Arunachala Siva. 

General Discussion / Re: Self attentiveness-self forgetfulness
« on: August 20, 2008, 10:43:20 AM »
Dear srkudai and Sankar,  Self attention is the only key word.
Thoughts will come, doubts will come, fears will come (becuase
we do not want to leave the mind, in the mindless state, there
will be fears, as if, we are 'losing' the mind and getting mad!)
but one has to pursue self enquriy and self attention.  Bhagavan
has said:- "As if the pearl-diver  sinking into the sea, with a
pearl as his goal." (Who am I? - 1902).  This is the keyword.

Arunachala Siva.     

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (24)
« on: August 19, 2008, 07:34:57 PM »
The Chapter VI continues....

Verse 240:- The ignorant are convinced that the happiness and
grief which the world and heaven offer are real.  So, they do not
perceive nonduality nor think it exists.

Verse 241:-  It is clearly seen that the conviction of the knowers
is opposed to the conviction of he ignorant.  They are free or
fettered according to their conviction.

Verse 245:-  Listen!  The duality is unreal and has no independent
existence, for it is a product of Maya.  So when duality is negated
what remains as a reality is nonduality.

Verse 246:-  The whole world is a product of the inscrutable Maya.
Be convinced of this, and know that the fundamental real principle
is non duality.

Verse 252:-  Do not say that it is reasoning alone which demonstrates
the unreality of duality and no our experience, for we daily experience
that mysterious is the nature of the world, in our sleep.

Verse 254:- Consciousness is eternal, for its nonexistence can
never be experienced.  But the non-existence of duality is
experienced by consciousness before the duality assumes
manifestation, (for a trice at the time of waking up.)

Verse 255:- The duality of the phenomenal world is like the
pot which is nonexistent  befdore it comes into being.  Still,
its creation is inexplicable.  So it is unreal like a product of magic.

Verse 259:-  The Sruti says that he who has banished from his
heart all indwelling desires attains immortality.  This is not
merely a statement.  A knower's actual experience proves it.*

Verse 260:-  In another passage, it is stated that all the knots
of the heart are loosened at the rise of knowledge.  The term
"knots of the heart" has been explained in the commentary
to mean the desires of the heart.* 

(* Katha Upanishad 2.3.15)

to be contd.,

Arunachala Siva.

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (23)
« on: August 19, 2008, 07:20:43 PM »
The Chapter VI continues...

Verse 230:-  Just as it is impossible to establish the eternal existence
of pleasures derived from flowers and sandalwood, so it is impossible
to establish the associationlessness of Atman as long as the world
and Isvara are believed to be realities and ever existing.

Verse 231:-  If Maya is imperishable as the Sankhyas say, she
will continue to produce attachments in the Jiva even after
the dawn of the knowledge of his complete isolation.  If personal God,
Isvara, is eternal, he will continue to exercise control over the Jiva.
In that case, the poor Jiva will never have emancipation and his
bondage will be real.

Verse 232:- (Doubt): The idea of attachment to the body and of
control is ignorance. (Reply): Then, you accept the conception
of Maya, which is a violation of the shortsighted Sankhya doctrine.

Verse 233:- (Doubt): To account for the idea of individual bondage
and release, the plurality of selves must be accepted.  (Reply):
This is unnecessary because Maya is responsible for bondage and

Verse 234:- Don't you see that Maya can make impossible appear
as possible?  In fact, the Sruti can tolerate neither bondage nor
release. Release is as illusory as bondage.

Verse 235:-  The Sruti declares that in fact there is no destruction,
no origination, none is in bondage and none engaged in practice
for liberation.  No aspirant for liberation and none liberated!  This
is the transcendental Truth.  (See Gaudapada Karika and Bhagavan's
Ulladu Narpadu).

Verse 236:-  Maya is said to be the desire-fulfilling cow. Jiva and
Isvara are its two calves.  Drink of the milk of duality as much as
you like, but the Truth is Nonduality.

Verse 237:- The difference between Kutastha and Brahman is
only in names.  In reality there is no difference.  The Space in
the pot and the unlimited Space are not distinct from one another.

Verse 238:- The nondual Reality as declared in the Sruti, existed
before creation, exists now and will continue to exist in dissolution.
And after liberation, Maya deludes the people in vain.

Arunachala Siva.     

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (22)
« on: August 19, 2008, 05:48:51 PM »
The chapter VI continues...

Verse 182:-  The Lord is said to be the source of the  universe,
for He causes the creation and dissolution of the world.  By
creation and dissolution are meant the manifestation and
demanifesatation of the world.

Verse 184:-  If painted canvas is rolled up, the picture is
no longer visible.  In the same way, when the karma of
beings is exhausted, the Lord withdraws into Himself the
universe with all that it contains (that is, all remain in latent form).

Verse 185:-  The creation and dissolution of the world are
comparable to day and night, to the waking and sleeping states,
to the opening and closing of the eyes, and activity and quiescence
of the mind.

Verse 187:-  Isvara though the tamas of Maya is the cause of the
inanimate objects, and through the reflection of the supreme
intelligence, Isvara is the cause of the Jivas.

Verse 195:-  By deep enquiry and by the application of the rules
of interpretation to the Vedic texts, we come to know that
Brahman is association-less and unconditioned by Maya, whereas
Isvara is he creator conditoned by Maya.

Verse 210:-  The liberation, however, can be obtained through
the knowledge of Reality and not otherwise.  The dreaming does
not end until the dreamer awakes.

Verse 211:-  In the secondless principle, Brahman, the whole
universe, in the form of Isvara and Jiva, and all animate and
inanimate objects, appears like a dream.

Versse 214:-  Those who do not know the nature of Brahman, who
is secondless and unconditioned fruitlessly quarrel over Jiva and
Isvara, which are creations of Maya.

Verse 217:-  All those logicians who do not know the truth
of the secondless Brahman, will quarrel and they are all wrong.
Where is their liberation or where is their job or where is their
joy in the world?

Verse 219:-  Therefore, the aspirants to Brahman, should
never engage themselves in disputation about the nature
of Jiva and Isvara.  They ought to practise discrimination
and realize the Reality of Brahman.

Arunachala Siva.

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (21)
« on: August 19, 2008, 05:27:50 PM »
The Chapter VI continues...

Verse 155:-  It is said by the Sruti that Jiva and Isvara are
creations of Maya, being recollections of Atman in It.  Isvara
is like the reflection of the sky in the cloud.  Jiva is like the
reflection of the sky in water. 

Verse 156:- Maya is comparable to a cloud, and the mental
impressions in the intellect (Buddhi) are like the water-
particles which make up the cloud.  The reflected consciousness
in Maya is like the sky reflected in the water-particles of the cloud.

Verse 157:- Sruti says that this (Pure Universal) Consciousness
reflected in Maya is Isvara, which controls Maya as well.  The great
Isvara is the inner ruler, omniscient and cause of the universe.

Verse 158:- The Sruti, in the passage teaching with 'consciousness
in the deep sleep' and ending in "He is the Lord of All", describes
this "sheath of bliss" - Anandamaya Kosa- as the Isvara.

(The Sruti mentioned here is Maandukya Upanishad and Brahadaranyaka
Verse 159:-  The consciousness and other properties of the
Anandamaya kosa are not to be questioned, because the assertions
of the Sruti are beyond dispute, and because everything is
possible in Maya. 

Verse 160:-  In the Anandamaya kosa, inhere all the desires
and mental impressions of all living beings.  Inasmuch as it
knows them (impressions - vasanas- tendencies) all, it is
called omniscient.

Verse 166:-  Just as the threads are subtler than the cloth
and the fibres of the thread are subtler than the threads
themselves, even so, where this progress from the subtle
to the subtler stops, there do we confront the Inner Ruler.

Verse 167:-  Being minuter than the minute of the second
and third degree, the Inner Being is not subject to perception.
But by reasoning and by Sruti, His existence is ascertained.

Arunachala Siva.   

Ashrams / Re: Accommodation at Ashram
« on: August 19, 2008, 05:00:34 PM »
Dear Kannan,  you can mail to :

23rd August 2008, being Saturday and a week end, there may be
full booking.  Nevertheless, you may try.  Hotels are also there
in Tiruvannamalai, where you can get a two-bedroom accommodation
for about Rs 400.00 per day.

Arunachala Siva.

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Prarabdha
« on: August 19, 2008, 04:55:52 PM »
Dear non duel,  Prarabdha is valid for one who is in ignorance,
is having 'doership' with a fat ego!  In egoless state, it is not valid.

Arunachala Siva.

General Discussion / Re: Self-consciousness-Thinking
« on: August 19, 2008, 04:52:57 PM »
Dear DRPVSSN Raju,  When the thoughts go outwards, these
are Jagat-Jeeva-Isvara.  These are unreal.  When the thoughts
go inwards it is self-enquiry.  Nevertheless, both are thoughts.
This inward thought ultimately curls up into the Self.  Then
there are no thoughts, the thought-less state is the Self. "Jagat
is where everything is seen.  Swarupa is where nothing is seen."
(Who am I?)

Arunachala Siva.

General Discussion / Re: Rise of thought-Attention
« on: August 19, 2008, 04:46:33 PM »
Dear DRPVSSN Raju,  The interpretation of non duel is correct.
Just watch the thoughts with the questions, "For whom are these
thoughts".  "It is for me",  "Who am I?".   Then comes Self-attention.
Thoughts will keep on rising like soldiers from the enemy fortress.
Empty the fortress.

Arunachala Siva.

General Discussion / Re: Absolute reality
« on: August 19, 2008, 04:38:33 PM »
Dear DRPVSSN Raju,  Absolute Reality is everywhere, all pervading.
During enquiry,  Bhagavan Ramana wanted us to use a 'focal point'
the Heart, where it is said to be.  So, It is in us. If the self-enquiry
becomes successful, we are Absolute Reality, the Heart, the all
pervading, the 'bhuma' as Skanda (as Sanat Kumaraa) said to
Narada, in Chandogya Upanishad.  This Upanishad calls self-
enquiry as Bhuma-Vidya.

Arunachala Siva.

General Discussion / Re: Self attentiveness-self forgetfulness
« on: August 19, 2008, 04:35:10 PM »
Dear DRPVSSN Raju and srkudai,  In self-attention, if there is
self forgetfulness, leave it and come back to self-attention.
However, only when ego is annihilated, the outward thoughts
will cease.  Keep watching the Self.  Trying to use the ego
to merge into the Self, is like asking the thief to find out the thief!

Arunachala Siva.