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Messages - Subramanian.R

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (69)
« on: August 23, 2008, 01:04:42 PM »
The Chapter III continues....

Verse 17:- How can that, by which the whole universe is
known, be known by anything else?  By what can the knower
be known?  The mind etc,  the instruments of knowledge,
can their own percepts only.

Verse 18:-  The Self knows all that is knowable.  There is
no one to know It.  It is consciousness or knowledge itself
and is different from both the known and the unknown,
as also the knowable and the unknowable.

(Svetasvatara Up. 3.19;  Kena Up. 1.4)

Verse 19:-  How can a man teach scriptures to one who
is a man only in form but who is so dull as not to experience,
what consciousness is is every act of knowing a thing?

Verse 20:-  As it is shameful for a man to express doubt if
he has a tongue or not, as also it is shameful to say.
"I do not know what consciousness is.  I must know it now!"

(Bhagavan in Who am I?  "For Rama to know that he is Rama,
does he require a mirror?")

Verse 21:-  From whatever objects are perceived, dismiss
the objects and what remains, viz., the Pure Consciousness,
the Awareness only is Brahman.  Such an understanding is
called the determination of the nature of the  Brahman.

Verse 22:-  By dismissing the objective elements tht is the
five sheaths, what remains is the Witness of the sheaths.
That is the real nature of the Self, viz., Pure Consciousness.
Non existence cannot be attributed to it.

to be contd....

Arunachala Siva.

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (68)
« on: August 23, 2008, 12:53:57 PM »
The I Chapter of Panchadasi, is called Panchakosha Viveka,
or the Differentiation of the Five Sheaths.

Verse 1:-  It is possible to know Brahman, which is 'hidden in
the cave' that is five sheaths, by differentiating It from from them.

(  Scriptures always indicate Brahman, as something hidden
in the cave of five sheaths.  Bhagavan also used the expression,
'Hrudayakuhar madhye"  in His Sanskrit verse in Ulladu Naarpadu
and Sri Ramana Gita, as an experiential statement.)

Verse 2:- Within the 'physical sheath, is the 'vital sheath';
within the vital sheath is the 'mental sheath'; still within,
is 'intellectual sheath' and still within is the 'blissful sheath'
or the 'enjoyer sheath'.  This succession is of one within another,
is the cave that covers Atman.

Verse 9:- There is a position or function of the intellect, which,
at the time of enjoying the fruits of good actions, goes a little
farther inward and catches the reflection of the bliss and at the
end of this enjoyment, merges in deep sleep.  This is what is
known as the sheath of bliss.

Verse 10:-  This bliss sheath also cannot be the Self, because,
it is temporal and impermanent.  That bliss which is the source
of this reflection is the Self. For, it is eternal and immutable.

Verse 13:-  As the Self is Itself of the nature of experience
only, It cannot be an object of experience. Since there is no
experiencer nor any experience other than It, the Self is
unknowable -- not because It does not exist, but because It
cannot be an object of experience.

Verse 15:-  Just as there is nothing to hinder a thing from
possessing its natural flavorur, even without being flavoured
by another thing, even as the Self there stands four-square
as the experience, viz., this awareness, even when It is not
experienced as an object of experience.

Verse 16:-  The Sruti declares, "This Atman is self revealing",
"Before the evolution of the universe, the Self alone was
shining",  "It shining, all follow the shine", "by It shines the
universe shines, that is revealed."

(Brahadaranyaka Up.  4.3.9;  Nrsimha Uttara Tapaniya Up. 2;
Mundaka Up. 2.2.11;  Katha Up. 5.15; Svetasvatara Up. 6.14)

to be contd.....

Arunachala Siva.

Dear srkudai,  We are always the Being.  But since we are all
the time doing the thinking and acting, we do not realize the
Self.  Bhagavan says "Stick to one thinking, Who am I? and banish
all other thinking. 

Dear Sankar and Raju,  Partial surrender is asking for the
cake and leaving the God after the cake is given.  Or shouting
at the God, if neem leaves are given instead of the cake!
Manikkavachagar says:- "We shall receive anything that
you give, O Siva, without thinking that, this is good and that is
bad."  (Tiruvachakam).  There is a beautiful English translation
by G.U. Pope, an English Jesuit Father, who came to Tamil Nadu,
to spread Christianity, during 19th century.  He was Bishop of
Tirunelveli Diocese in southern Tamil Nadu.  He learnt Tamil
and read many religious works in Tamil and he was immensely
attacted by Tiruvachakam.  Before he died, he asked his servant,
to read out a verse in Tiruvachakam and left the body!  The verse
is:  O Siva, the concorporate consort of the lady with eyes lke
split unripe mangoes!  You can call me to Your lotus feet or
throw me into hell, I do not know your idea.  I am sufering
like a shuttle which goes hither and thither in the weaving
machine!  O I shall be lost, I seek refuge in You."  (Decad on
surrender).  For people, who do not know already,  Muruganar's
Sri Ramana Sanndhi Murai - The Song of the Holy Presence,
is entirely based on Tiruvachakam, because what Manikkavachagar
is to Siva, Muruganar is to Bhagavan Ramana.  Muruganar's
Guru Vachaka Kovai, is again based on another poem of Manikka
Vachagar, called Tiru-Chitrambala-Kovaiyar.

Arunachala Siva.

« on: August 23, 2008, 12:05:29 PM »
Dear Sankar and Raju, one gets the 'endless eye' - 'antam ila kan'
in Tamil, - 'the wisdom insight', if one is Self realized.  The physical
eyes can be donated to others, the wisdom has to be attained by
one's own self enquiry, and not by donating or reeceiving.

Arunachala Siva.

General topics / Re: EGOLESS STATE
« on: August 23, 2008, 11:56:18 AM »
Dear Sankar and Raju,  All 'modifications' - vikalapas are
mind's play.  That is why Bhagavan said, "The Self shines
where  there is no mind" - Who am I?  (1902)

Arunachala Siva.

« on: August 23, 2008, 11:53:47 AM »
Dear Sankar & Raju, as you have said, books will help us only
to some extent.  Then, you may ask, "Why are your writing about
so many books?"  When Sankara and Bhagavan wrote so many
books, it is only to leave the seekers, to choose one that they
find it more appealing and understandable.  That is all.  Sankara
did not stop with Viveka Choodamani and Bhagavan did not stop
with Who am I?.  The idea was to give many books appealing to
different people.  Bhagavan did not write or know anything
for Self Realization.  His case is unique because He was an
avatara of Skanda, who explained the significance of Pranava
to Siva himself.  David Godman says, He was like a star suddenly
appearing from top of the hill, and came down to the foothill
to tell others about His experience!   We are all on the reverse.
We try hard to climb from downhill to the top of the hill.

Arunachala Siva.

General topics / Re: Life-Death
« on: August 23, 2008, 11:45:22 AM »
Dear non duel,  Mind or ego, as you have correctly said, is
necessary to know the Self.  It is like, the stick that stirs
the funeral pyre.  Who am I? (1902) will not leave us. It is
one book which contains all the answers.

Arunachala Siva.   

General topics / Re: Life-Death
« on: August 23, 2008, 11:43:10 AM »
Dear Sankar,  I am telling you too.  Do not get into whirlpool
of words.  Sastra vasana will not take us anywhere.  Be still
and the Awareness shines.

Arunachala Siva.

General topics / Re: Life-Death
« on: August 23, 2008, 11:41:13 AM »
Dear Raju,  Kindly do not get into the deluge of words.  We are all,
as srkudai said, ever the Awareness.  But, what is obstructing is
the ego.  Bhagavan says, "Leave the mind, the Awareness shines."
See His words.  He did not say, "Awareness will appear', but said
'Awareness shines".  The Awareness is ever present,  as

Arunachala Siva.

General topics / Re: Life-Death
« on: August 22, 2008, 06:33:06 PM »
Dear Raju, Yes, the Self can be realized while being alive.  Such
people are Jivan Muktas. eg. Bhagavan.  Some others realize
during the last moments of death and then there is  the fall of the body.
They are Videha Muktas.  While Jivan muktas can give teaching
to the unillumined, the Videha muktas can do nothing of that sort.
That way, they are very 'selfish'.

Arunachala Siva. 

Dear srkudai and Raju, Both are complientary and do not
contradict each other.  But to think surrender is easier than
self-enquriy is not correct.

Arunachala Siva.

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (67)
« on: August 22, 2008, 06:20:23 PM »
The Chapter II continues....

Verse 106:-  A realized soul is not affected by delusion and it
is the same whether he dies healthy or in illness, sitting in
meditation or rolling on the ground, conscious or unconscious.

Verse 107:-  The knowledge of the Vedas, acqured during the
waking conditon, is daily forgotten during dream and sleep,
but it returns on the morrow.  Similar is the case with the
knowledge of Brahman. 

Verse 108:-  The knowledge of Brahman, based on the evidence
of the Vedas, is not destroyed unless proved invalid by some
stronger evidence.  But in fact, there is no stronger evidence
than the Vedas. 

(Prasna Up.  6.3)

Verse 109:-  Therefore the knowledge of the nondual Reality,
thus, established by the Vedanta is not falisfied even at the last
moment, whatever interpretation be taken.  So, the discrimination
of the elements from the Brahman, the non dual reality, surely
ensures peace abiding or bliss ineffable.  This is the Peace
that passeth understanding.


Arunachala Siva.   

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (66)
« on: August 22, 2008, 06:12:00 PM »
The Chapter II continues....

Verse 97:- If we abstract from the cosmos the Existence, which
underlies it, all the world and all objects are reduced to a mere
illusory appearnce. What does it matter even if they continue
to appear.

Verse 98:-  When a deep impression has been creatd in the
mind about the elements and their derivatives and Maya being
of the same category, viz., non existence, the understanding
of non duality of the Real Entity, as Nondual, will never
be subverted.

Verse 99:-  When the Reality has been comprehended as
Non dual Brahman and the world of duality has been differentiated,
their pragmatic action, however, will continue as before.

Verse 102:-  When the intellect disregards the notions of duality,
it becomes firmly established in the conception of non duality.
The man who is firmly established in the conviction of non duality
is called a Jivan mukta, a liberated in life.

Verse 103:- Sri Krishna say in the Gita:- This is called as
having one's being in Brahman. O Arjuna, None attaining this,
will be deluded.  Being established therein, even at the last
moment, a man attains oneness with Brahman.  (Gita 2.72.
This is called Videha mukti, liberation at time of fall of the body.)

Verse 104:- "At the last moment" also means the moment at
which the mutual identification of the illusory duality and the
the one secondless reality, is annhilated by differentiating from
each other, and nothing else.

Verse 105:-  In common parlance, the expression 'at the last
moment' may mean at the last moment of life.  Even at that
time, the illusion that is gone does not return and there is no

to be contd....

Arunachala Siva.

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (65)
« on: August 22, 2008, 05:58:33 PM »
The chapter II continues....

Verse 78:-  The real entity (Brahman) is all pervasive.  The
range of Maya is limited.  That of akasa is more limited. And
that of air, water etc., yet more so limited.

Verse 79:-  The following are the properties, air is known
to possess.: ability to absorb moisture, percetibility to the
sense of touch, speed and motion.  Existence and the properties
of Maya and akasa are also found in air.

Verse 80:- When we say, air exists, we mean that it does so
by virtue of the universal principle of existence. If the idea
of existence is abstracted from air, what is left is the nature
of Maya, that is a non-entity.  The property of sound that is
found in the air is that of akasa.

Verse 86:-  What is real in air is Brahman, Sat. Other particles
are unreal as akasa.  Having made a deep impression in your
mind, about the unreality of air, by reason and meditation,
give up the false notion about the reality of air.

Verse 87:-  In the same way, we can think of ire, which has
a more limted range than air.  A similar consideration will
point to the relative existence of the other elements like
water, earth which envelop the universe.

Verse 96:-  The cosmos contains the fourteeen worlds and all
the living beings suited to each world.

(The cosmos is Brhamanda, as per Hindu thought, and it consists
of 14 worlds, Bhuh, Bhuvah, Svah, Mahat, Janah, Tapah, Satya,
or Bramhaloka, and Atala, Vitala, Sutala, Talatala, Rasatala,
Mahatala, Patala, in the upper and lower directions of the world).

to be contd....

Arunachala Siva.     

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (64)
« on: August 22, 2008, 05:41:53 PM »
The Chapter II continues....

Verse 71:-  As there is a difference between a class, and a
member of a class, a living man and his body, and the possessor
of an attribute and the attribute, so there is a distinction between
existence (Brahman) and akasa,  What is there to wonder at?

Verse 72:-  If you say, that granting intellectually that there is
a distinction between askasa and Brahman, yet in practice,
one does not feel convinced of it, we ask, is such a absurd
conclusion due to lack of concentration or tenacious doubt?

Verse 73:- If the first, be attentive by fixing the mind through
meditation.  If the other, then study the matter carefully with
the help of reasoning and evidence.  Then the conviction of
the truth of the distinction between Brahman and akasa
will be firm.

Verse 74:-  By means of profound meditation, evidence and
logical reasoning,  Brahman and akasa can be known to be
different from one another.  The akasa will not appear as
real nor having the property of space giving.

Verse 75:-  To a knower,  akasa, always shows its illusoriness,
an Brahman also always shines unassociated with its properties.

Verse 76:- When one's impressions about the true nature of
Sat and akasa, are thus quite deepened, by constant reasoning
and meditation, one is amazed to see a person attributing
reality to akasa, and suffering from ignorance about the reality
beiong pure existence void of all attributes.

Verse 77:-  Thus when the unreality of akasa and the reality
of Brahman are firmly established in the mind, one should
follow the same method and differentiate Brahman, whose
nature is pure existence, from air, water, fire, and earth.

to be contd....

Arunachala Siva.