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Messages - Subramanian.R

General Discussion / Re: Attending to self
« on: August 19, 2008, 04:07:59 PM »
Dear DRPVSSN Raju and srkudai,  Attending to the self-enquiry, that is,
asking, "Who am I?" is also a thought.  This one thought, will ward off
all other thoughts, and eventually, even this will burn itself, like
the stick that is used to stir the funeral pyre.  (Who am I? - 1902)

Dear srkudai, Nice, but you are telling the 'ultimate'.

Arunachala Siva. 

General Discussion / Re: Rise of thought-Attention
« on: August 19, 2008, 04:04:44 PM »
Dear DRPVSSN Raju and srkudai,  Thoughts will keep on rising,
whether one attends to it or not.  Bhagavan says: " If you ask,
for whom is this thought?  Then that thought will withdraw
and another will spring up.  Thoughts will keep coming, like
the soldiers in the fortress and unless you kill all the thoughts,
the fortress will not come to your hand."   (Who am I? - 1902)

Arunachala Siva.

General Discussion / Re: Sleep-consciousness
« on: August 19, 2008, 04:01:03 PM »
Dear DRPVSSN Raju and srkudai,

Yes. srkudai is correct.  We are always Consciousness.  In sleep,
mind is temporarily absent, curling itself up into the Self.  In
the morning, after a trice of Self awareness, the first thought
"I" springs forth and then the play starts!

Arunachala Siva.

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (20)
« on: August 19, 2008, 03:02:52 PM »
The Chapter VI continues...

Verse 147:- What can be more magical than the fact that the
seed in the uterus becomes a conscious individual, that it
develops head, hands, feet and other organs, that it passes
through the states of childhood, youth and old age, and that
it perceives, eats, smells, hears, comes and goes?

Verse 148:-  Like the human body, consider carefully a tiny
fig seed.  How different the tree is from the seed from which
it grows!  Therefore know all this to be Maya.

Verse 149:-  The logicians and others, proud of their dialectical
ability, may feel satisfied with their logical explanations.  But
the philosphers have expressed the errors of their positions
in their classics.

Verse 150:-  Things that are inconceivable should not be subjected
to cannons of logic.  And this universe is one such, for the mind
cannot conceive of this very mode of its creation.

Verse 151:-  Be convinced, that Maya is the cause of this
universe, whose comprehension surpasses the imagination.
In the state of deep sleep, we are partly aware of this Maya,
the seed of this world.

Verse 152:-  As the tree is latent in the seed, so the waking
and dreaming worlds are implicit in deep sleep.  Similarly,
the impressions of the entire universe are latent in Maya.

Verse 154:-  This seed of Maya in association with the
reflection of consciousness, which is not fully grasped,
devlops into the intellect; and in this intellect, the reflection
of consciousness becomes plainly visible as the ego.

Arunachala Siva.

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (19)
« on: August 19, 2008, 02:50:37 PM »
The Chapter VI continues...

Verse 129:-  Since the effects of Maya are undeniably manifest,
its existence cannot be denied.  Being stultified by knowledge,
it cannot really be said to exist.  From the point of view of Absolute
Knowledge (of the Atman), it is always inoperative and hence

Verse 130:-  Maya is looked upon in three ways.  From the
point of view of the knowledge and Sruti, it is negiligible.
For empirical reasons, it is indefinable and for the ordinary
people, it is real.

Verse 131:- Maya exhibits the appearance and disappearance
in waking and sleeping states of the world, just by rolling
and unrolling a picture on a canvas, it is exhibited or withdrawn.

Verse 132:-  Maya is dependent, for in the absence of the
cognizing faculty the effects of Maya cannot be experienced. 
Again in one sense it is independent too, for it can make the
non-attached Atman appear to be attached.

Verse 133:-  Maya transforms the immutable Kutastha,
the ever association-less Atman, phenomenally into
the form of the universe.  Casting the reflection of Atman
on itself, Maya creates Jiva and Isvara.

Verse 134:-  Without in any way of affecting the real
nature of Atman, Maya creates the world.  It makes the
impossible look possible.  How astonishingly powerful Maya is!

Verse 137:- Those who believe in the reality of the world
regard the effects of Maya as wonderful.  But since the nature
of Maya is itself wonderful, one need not wonder at its power.

Verse 143:- Even if all the learned people of the world try to
determine the nature of this world, they will find themselves
confronted at some stage or other by ignorance.

Verse 144:-  In the end you will have to say, "I do not know".
Therefore the wise declare this world to be like a magic show.

Arunachala Siva. 

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (18)
« on: August 19, 2008, 02:35:03 PM »
The chapter VI continues...

Verse 123:- The Sruti says that Maya is Prakrti, the material
cause of the universe, and the Lord of Maya is the great
Isvara, who pervades the whole universe, consisting of
sentient and insentient objects which are like parts of Isvara.

Verse 124:-  The correct definition of Isvara is available from
the Sruti text.  Then, there will be no clash with even the
worshippers of trees and so forth as Isvara.

Verse 128:-  The Tapaniya Upanishad declares Maya to be
Tamas or darkness.  The empirical expression of all is evidence
for the existence of Maya, says the Sruti.

Verse 129:-  The Sruti points to the universal experience of
the insentient and illusory nature of Maya, as displayed by
persons of undeveloped intellect, such as children and dullards.

Verse 127:- The nature of the pot and other inert objects
exhibits insentiency, which is a characteristic of Maya.  People
say that the intellect feels shy to fathom the depths of Maya.

Verse 128:-  All people admit in their experience, existence
of Maya.  From the logical point of view, Maya is explicable.
Sruti too declares it to be neither existence nor non-existence.

to be contd....

Arunachala Siva.

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (17)
« on: August 19, 2008, 02:24:59 PM »
The chapter VI continues....

Verse 73:-  The intelect sheath is the Self.  The whole world
is cognized by it, and birth and death, pleasure and pain,
affect it.  So say some Vedic texts.

Verse 74:- The intellect is momentary like the flashes of
lightning in a cloud or the twinkling of an eye, and that
because we know of no other Self beyond the intellect, the Self
is nothing or void.  So say, Madhamika Buddhists.

Verse 75:- Quoting the Sruti, "In the beginning all this was
non-existent (Asat), the Buddhists say that perception and
the objects of perception are the creation of illusion.

Verse 76:-  The Vedantins refute them by saying that there
can be no illusion without a substratum which is not an
illusion.  The existence of Atman must be admitted.  Even
the void has a witness; if not, it would be impossible to say,
"There is a void".

Verse 77:-  The Vedic view, say the Naiyayikas, is that
beyond the intellect-sheath, there is yet another sheath,
the bliss-sheath.  It is existing (not something that does not exist).

Verse 78:-  Other philosphers, recognizing the authority of Srutis,
still dispute vaiously as to whether the Atman is atomic in size or
all-pervasive or something between the two.

Verse 83:-  They state that Atman becomes subtle and enters
ito the finest capillaries, as the arms of a man slip into the
sleeves of a coat.

Verse 86:- So the Atman is neither atomic nor of medium size,
but is infinite, partless and like Space, all pervasive.  This view
accords with the Sruti.

Verse 92:-  In this life, subject to action, Atman sometimes
experiences happiness; so too, when it takes birth in other
bodies, desire etc., arise due to karma.

Verse 103:-  The Sruti declares that Isvara is the Lord of Jivas.
And also of Prakrti.  He controls the gunas(characters) too.
In the Aranyaka part of the Sruti, He is respectfully called
the Inner Controller.

Verse 104:-  Here too, there are many philosphers, who by
their arguments maintain different views about Isvara.  They
quote suitable texts from the Sruti and interpret them according
to their light.

Verse 121:-  So every entity from the Inner Ruler to inert
objects is considered as Isvara by someone or other, for
we find that even the sacred fig tree, the sun-plant and
the bamboo etc., are worshipped by the people as family

Verse 122:-  Those who are desirous of ascertaining the real
truth, study the Sruti and logic.  Their conclusion is the same,
that Isvara is one only and this fact we have set forth in this

to be contd...

Arunachala Siva.           

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (16)
« on: August 19, 2008, 02:00:18 PM »
The Chapter VI continues....

Verse 46:-  Just as the conscious Jiva is created by illusion
based on Kutastha, even so, on it the inanimate objects
are created by Avidya or Maya.

Verse 53:- The concealing of the real nature of the Self and
the identity superimposition, are caused by nescience or
Avidya or Maya, and they are destroyed when nescience,
or Avidya or Maya is negated.  But as long as the fructifying
karma continues, the mind and body, the effects of illusory
projection of nescience, continue.

Verse 55:- According to the logicians, the cloth keeps its
form for the next second -- the threads(its material cause)
that last for a few days are destroyed.  On the same reasoning,
the body may persist for a proportionately long time, when the
ignorance of countless ages is destroyed.

(The lingering moment should be proportionate  to the cause.
There is also another illustration, the revolutions of the potter's
wheel, which continue even after the cause, the rotating force
is removed)

Verse 57:-  There is no use entering into a controversy with
unreasonable logicians.  The fact is that the difference between
Jiva and Kutastha is caused by illusion.

Verse 68:- The Sruti says that the mind is the cause of the bondage
and the release of man and it speaks of the mind-sheath.  Therefore,
these people conclude that the mind is the Atman.

Verse 71:- Since without the sense of egoity, it is not possible
to cognize the outer world, it is clear that the idea of egoity is
the cause of the mind and without it the cognizance of the
external world is impossible.

Verse 72:-  As the "I-consciousness" appears and disappears
every moment, the intellect sheath is transitory and it needs no
further principle to illumine it.

to be contd....

Arunachala Siva.   

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (15)
« on: August 19, 2008, 01:25:31 PM »
The Chapter VI continues.....

Verse 26:-  Nescience or Avidya or Maya has got two functions.
Avarana or Concealing power and Viksepa or Projecting power.
The power of Avarana creates such ideas as Kutastha shines
not, nor exists.

Verse 28:-  The opponent may raise such questions such as:
How did the self-luminous Kutastha come to have ignorance;
and without it how could there be obsucring?  Such arguments
are falsified by one's own direct experience.

Verse 29:-  If one disbelieves one's onw experience, and
since ligic is not final, how can one know the truth about anything
by mere reasoning?

Verse 33:- On Kutastha, covered by the concealing power
of ignorance, are projected  or superimposed the subtle and
gross bodies, thus producing the Chidabhasas or Jivas.  It is
like superimposition of silver on a mother of pearl.  This
called Projecting power or Viksepa.

Verse 37:-  As people of something seen as silver though
they really see the mother of pearl, so in the self-cognition,
the Self is mistaken for the ego.
Verse 41:-  People ordinarily use Self and Atman as synonymous
terms; and so both terms are never used together.  In fact,
each of these terms exclude the idea of 'another'.

Arunachala Siva.

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (14)
« on: August 19, 2008, 01:01:32 PM »
The Chapter VI continues....

Verse 15:-  The knowledge arising from discrimination is of two
kinds, indirect and direct knowledge.  This process of discrimination
ends in the achievement of the direct knowledge.

Verse 16:-  The knowledge that "Brahman is" is indirect.
The knowledge that "I am Brahman" is direct.

Verse 22:-  The consciousness which is conditioned by the
gross and subtle bodies, on which they are superimposed
and which knows no change is known as Kutastha.

Verse 23:-  On the Kutastha, is superimposed by imagination
the intellect (buddhi).  The relfection of Kutastha in the
intellect is animated by vitality and is called the Jiva.  It is
subject to transmigration.

Verse 24:-  As the Space in a pot is conealed by Space reflected
in the water with which the pot is filled, so Kutastha is obscured
by Jiva.  This principle is called mutual obscuring or superimposition.

Verse 25:-  Under the delusion of mutual superimposition,
the Jiva cannot discriminate and realize that he is not Jiva but
Kutashta.  This non-discrimination is beginningless and is
known as the primal nescience or Maya.

Arunachala Siva.   

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (13)
« on: August 19, 2008, 12:50:49 PM »
The Chapter VI:-

The Chapter VI is called Chitra Deepa, or the Lamp of the Picture

Verse 1:-  As there are four stages in the painting of a picture,
so there are four stages in the modfication of the Supreme Self.

Verse 2:-  In a picture, we have the clean canvas, stiffening
with starch, drawing of the outlines and the application of
colour.  In the case of the Self, there are correspondingly,
the Pure Consciousness, the indwelling consciousness, the
one identifed with the totality of all the subtle bodies, and
the that with totality of all the physical bodies.

Verse 4:-  Brahman by nature is Pure Consciousness, with
Maya, He is called the indwelling spirit, in the relation to
the subtle bodies, He is the totality of souls identifying Himself
with them,  and in relation to the gross bodies, He is again the
one identifying Himself with their totality.

Verse 7:- On consciousness are superimposed various forms.
In each of them there is a reflection, that is, a special function
of consciousness.  They are known as the Jivas, individual souls,
and are subject to the process of birth and death.

Verse 8:-  Ignorant people imagine that the colours representing
the clothess of the figures in the picture are real clothes as
real as the canvas on which the picture is superimposed.
Similarly, the ignorant imagine that the transmigrations of the
Jivas are undergone by the Supreme Spirit, the substratum,
on which the Jivas are superimposed.

Verse 10:-  The confusion of considering this transmigration,
with the attendant pain and pleasure, as real and affecting the
Supreme Self is called nescience, or Maya.  It is removed only
by the knowledge of Reality.

Verse 11:-  It is the Jiva, a 'reflection' of the Self, which is
affected by the pain and pleasure of this transmigratory
life, but not the real Self.  This understanding is called Knowledge,
through discrimination.

Verse 12:-  Therefore one should always enquire into the
nature of the world, the individual Self and the Supreme Self.
When the ideas of Jiva and Jagat (the world) are negated,
Pure Atman or Brahman alone remains.

Verse 14:-  The Supreme Self alone remains, also means
a conviction about the reality and not non-perceiving of
the world.  Otherwise, there would be no such thing
as liberation in life.

Arunachala Siva. 

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (12)
« on: August 19, 2008, 12:32:16 PM »
The Chapter VII continues...

Verse 241:- He who has heard the declaration of Sruti:
The Knower of Brahman become Brahman -- fixes his
whole mind on Brahman and ultimately knows himself
to be Brahman.

Verse 246:- Lapses do not nullify the realization of Truth.
Jivanmukti (liberation in life), is not a vow, but the
establishment of the soul in the knowledge of Brahman.

Verse 247:-  In the example already cited, the tenth man, who
have been crying and beating his head in sorrow, stops lamenting
on realizing that the tenth man is not dead.  But the wounds
caused by beating his head take a month to gradually to heal.
And so are the fructifying karmas.

Verse 248:-  On realizing that the tenth man is alive, he rejoices
and forgets the pain of his wounds.  In the same way, liberation
in life makes only forget any misery resulting from the fructifying karma.

Verse 250:-  As the tenth man cures his wounds by applying
medicines, so the knower wears out his fructifying karma
by enjoyment and is ultimately liberated from the body.

(Now, between verses 126 to 251, we have dealt with the
destruction of suffering as a result of knowledge, which is the
sixth state.  The seventh state is mentioned between verses
252 and 298)

Verse 252:- The satisfaction by external objects is limited but
the satisfaction of liberation in life is unlimited.  The satisfaction
ofm diect knowledge engenders the feeling that all that was
to be achieved, and all that was to be enjoyed has been enjoyed.

Verse 253:-  Before realization, one has many duties to perform
in order to acquire worldly and celestial advantages and also
as an aide to ultimate release.  But with the rise of knowledge
of Brahman, they are as good as already done, for nothing
further remains to be done.

Verse 254:-  The Jivanmukta always feels supreme self
satisfaction by constantly keeping in view his former state
and present state of freedom from wants and duties.

Verse 265:-  The Jivanmukta says:  There is no distraction
for me, so for me, there is no need of Samadi too.  Both
distraction and absorption are states of the changeless mind.

Verse 266:-  I am the sum of all the experiences in the
universe.  Where is the separate experience for me?  I have
obained all that was to be obtained and have done all that
was to be done.  This is my unshakable conviction.

Verse 269:-  Let my body worship God, take bath, preserve
cleanliness or beg for alms.  Let my mind recite "OM" or
study he Upanishads.

Verse 271:-  How can there by any conflict between the actor
and myself?  Our functions are as apart from each other as
the eastern from the western ocean!

Verse 278:-  Maya and its effects(the realm of duality) cannot
negate the knowledge of the Truth.  The dawn of truth has
already destroyed them for ever in the case of me, the knower.

Verse 279:-  The realm of duality, destroyed by knowledge, may
still be perceived by the senses, but such perception does not
affect illumination.  A living rat can never kill a cat.  Then, how
can it do so, when dead?

Verse 288:-  When infant children show the father disrespect
or even beat him, the father neither gets angry with them nor
feels sorry, and on the contrary, the father fondles them
with affection.

Verse 289:-  The enlightened man when praised or blamed by
the ignorant does not praise or blame in return.  He behaves
in such a way as to awaken a knowledge of the real entity in them.

Verse 295:-  Blessed am I, blessed, for there is nothing to
compare with my great bliss.  Blessed am I, blessed, blessed.
blessed, again and again blessed!

Verse 298:- The wise who study repeatedly the chapter called
the Lamp of Perfect Satisfaction, will dive in the bliss of Brahman,
and remains in perfect bliss for ever!

Chapter VII completed.

Arunachala Siva.             

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (11)
« on: August 19, 2008, 12:03:20 PM »
The Chapter VII continues...


Verse 211:-  It is common experience that the states of waking,
dreaming and deep sleep are distinct from one another, but
the experiencing consciousness is the same. 

Verse 217:- This Chidabhasa is a product of Maya.  Sruti and
experience both demonstrate this.  Thi world is a magical
show, and Chidabhasa is included in it.

Verse 219:-  When Chidabhasa convinces himself that he
is liable to destruction, he no longer has a desire for pleasure.
Does a man lying on the ground in death-bed will ever
desire to marry?

Verse 220:- He is ashamed to speak of himself as enjoyer
as before.  He feels ashamed like one whose nose has been
cutoff and just endures the experience of his fructifying karma.

Verse 231:-  Chidabhasa superimposes on the three bodies
the reality of the Kutastha, due to the play of Maya, and imagines
that these three bodies are his real Self.

Verse 234:-  By discrimination, ridding himself of all the
illusion of Maya and wihout caring for himself, the Chidabhasa
always thinks of the Kutastha.  How can he still be subject to
the afflictions pertaining to the body?

Verse 235:- When a man takes a rope for a serpent, he runs
away from it.  When the illusion is negated, and the true nature
of the rope is known, he realizes his error and is ashamed of it.

Verse 236:-  As a man, who has injured another through ignorance
humbly begs his forgiveness on realizing the error, so Chidabhasa
submits himself to Kutastha.

Verse 238:-  As a courtesan suffering from a certain disease
is ashamed to demonstrate her charms to a lover, who is
acquainted with her condition, the Chidabhasa is ashamed
to consider himself as the doer and enjoyer.

Verse 240:-  As a heir-apparent imitates the life of his father,
the King, in order to fit himself for accession to the throne,
so, Chidabhasa continually imitates the witness Kutastha,
with a view to his being with It. 
Arunachala Siva.

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (10)
« on: August 19, 2008, 11:44:26 AM »
The Chapter VII continues...


Verse 193:-  Many Srutis declare that a husband loves his wife
not for her sake, and the wife loves him not for his sake, but
both for their own sake.

Verse 194:- Now who is the doer and enjoyer?  Is it the immutable
Kutastha or the reflected consciousness, Chidabhasa, or a union
of the two?  Kutastha cannot be the enjoyer since it is association-

Verse 200:-  Owing to ignorance, the Chidabhasa superimposes
the reality of Kutastha on to himself.  Consequenly he considers
his enjoyment to be real and does not want to give it up.  Thus,
Chidabhasa loves and enjoys, due to his union with Kutastha.

Verse 205:- As the fallen ones keep their minds ever concentrated
on objects of enjoyment, such as, garlands, sandal paste, young
women, clothes, gold and so forth, so an aspirant for liberation
ought to keep his attention fixed on the Self and never falter.

Verse 206:-  As a man desirous of establishing his superiority
over his opponents engages himself in the study of literature,
drama, logic and so forth, so an aspirant for liberation should
discriminate about the nature of the Self.

Verse 209:-  As these people through through perseverance
increase their efficiency in their fields, so for the aspirant
for liberartion through continuous practice of the idea of
separateness of the Self from the body becomes stronger.

Arunachala Siva.

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (9)
« on: August 19, 2008, 11:28:42 AM »
The Chapter VII continues...

Verse 177:-  The fructification of karma would be considered
to be opposed to the knowledge of the truth if it gave rise to
the idea of the reality of the transitory world.  But mere
enjoyment does not mean that the enjoyed thing is real.

Verse 178:- Through the imaginary objects seen in a dream,
there is experience of joy and sorrow to no small extent.
Therefore, you can infer that through the objects of the
waking state also, there can be the same experience, without
making them real.

Verse 182:-  Therefore, knowledge arises with the destruction
of duality and in other way. This being so, how can the knower
of the truth enjoy the world?

Verse 183:-  The Sruti upon which this objection (Verse 182)
is based, applies to the states of deep and final liberation.  This
has been amply cleared in Aphorism 4.4.16 in the Brahma Sutram.
(This Aphorism says that for those who have acquired Knowledge,
there is no 'doership', and hence there is no enjoyment. Even
worlds like heaven are no enjoyment.)

Verse 184:- If this is not accepted, we cannot account for
Yajnavalkya's and other sages' efforts to teach.  Without
a recognition of duality, they could not teach and 'enjoy'
teaching and if they have duality, their knowledge is incomplete.
In other words, these teachers did teach, without duality and
without a sense of 'doership'.

Verse 190:-  The control of mind is essential for the realization
of the illusory character of the world.  But although, the wise
man may have desires, they are not binding as the desires
opf an ignorant man. 

Arunachala Siva.