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Messages - Subramanian.R

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (124)
« on: August 26, 2008, 12:53:53 PM »
The Chapter XI continues.....

Verse 77:- (Objection): Well, if a mere state of quietitude
were enjoyment of the bliss of Brahman, then the lazy and
the worldly would achieve the end of their life.  What then
is the use of the teacher and scriptures?

Verse 78:- (Reply):  Your contention would be correct,
if he realized that Bliss that he experienced was the Bliss
of Brahman.  But who can know Brahman that is so
immensely profound without the help of the teacher and
the scriptures? 

(Bhagavan was always telling "Be Still" - 'Summa Iru' - in Tamil.
He was also telling that He was 'pani ledhu vadu', which means
'one without work', in Telugu.  Does it mean, He advocated
laziness? or to abhor work?   No.  What He meant was that
one should be thoughtless, Be still, and one should be always
in the Self, without the ego towards work, that is the 'doership'.)

Verse 79:- (Objection):  I know what Brahman is from what you
yourself have said.  Why then am I without the bliss of realization?
(Reply):  Listen to the story of a man who like yourself imagined
that he was wise.

Verse 80:- This man, hearing that a large reward was offered   
to anyone who knew the four Vedas, said: "I know from you,
that there are four Vedas!  So give me the reward!"

to be contd.....

Arunachala Siva.

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (123)
« on: August 26, 2008, 12:33:59 PM »
The Chapter XI continues....

Verse 72:-  In the enjoyment the bliss of Brahman in deep sleep,
the consciousness reflected in ignorance is the means. Prompted
by its Karma, good or bad, the Jiva gives up the enjoyment of bliss
and goes out to the waking state.

(The readers may here ask, 'why then, we cannot always be
in the sleeping state to enjoy the bliss?'  Bhagavan answers:
"One cannot always be in sleep state, because (a) our Karmas
will pull us back into waking state, (b) in sleep, one enjoys
the bliss only through Anandamaya kosa, and that is not the end
(c) and because of (b) we should work out our permanent bliss
that is the Self, beyond Anandamya kosa, in our waking state.")

Verse 73:- The Kaivalya Upanishad says that a Jiva passes
from the sleeping to the waking state owing to the effects of
the actions of the former births.  Reawakening thus is a result
of action.

(Kavalya Up. 14)

Verse 74:- For a short time, after the waking up the impression
of the bliss of Brahman enjoyed during sleep continues.  For he
remains for some time calm and happy, without taking any
interest in the enjoyment of external objects.

(Bhagavan Ramana has mentioned about this state in Talks.
He has said that as soon as one wakes up, for a trice, one
stays in the Self.  After that the 'I' thought rises and with that
all the mischief starts!  The trouble starts with 'O where is my
bed coffee?)

Verse 75:-  Then, impelled by his past actions ready to bear
fruits, he begins to think of duties and their impelementation
entailing sufferings of many kinds and gradually forgets the
bliss of Brahman, experienced a few minutes before.

(The thoughts:  Is the hot water ready?  Where is my shirt?
Where is my trousers?  Where is my breakfast.  I should go
to office a litle earlier today!  That rascal Joseph, I should
shout at him today, he has typed the letters full of mistakes

Verse 76:-  Experiencing the bliss of Brahman before and after
sleep day after day, man develops a predilection fo it.  How
can a man, therefore doubt it, tht is the existence of the bliss
of Brahman?

To be contd....

Arunachala Siva.   

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (122)
« on: August 26, 2008, 12:17:51 PM »
The Chapter XI continues....

Verse 67:-  This is fully explained in the Maandukya Upanishad
and Tapaniya Upanishad.  It is the sheath of bliss which is the
enjoyer, and it is the bliss of Brahman which is enjoyed.

(See Maandukya Up. 3.  The Upanishad call the bliss conscioussness,
as Prajna.  See also Gaudapada Karika,Advaita Prakarana and
Alatashanti Prakarana.)

Verse 68:-  This profusion of bliss (Anandamaya) having
become concentrated into one mass of Consciousness in the
deep sleep, enjoys the reflected bliss of Brahman, with the
help of modfications, Vrittis, reflecting a super-abundance of

(See Maandukya Up 5;  Maandukya Up. calls it 'chetomukah'
meaning 'the face of the Bliss'.

Verse 69:- The Self (Chidabhasa), in the wakingand dream
states, is connected or associated with various sheaths such
as Vijnanayamaya kosa and appears as many, that is, plays
various roles.  In deep sleep state, however, they get merged
and become latent like a dought of many powdered wheat-grains.

Verse 70:- The modfications of the intellect, which are
instruments of cognition, unite and becomes one in the state
of deep sleep, just as drops cold water in the Himalayan regions
solidy into a mass of ice.

Verse 71:-  This witness state of compact consciousness,
ordinary people and the logicians say, is characterized by
the absence of suffering, because in that the mental modfications
of pain and misery subside.

(NOTE:  In this context, to know through a beautiful commentary,
the three states, the Avastha-thraya and the Bliss remaining
beyond these three states, I recommend reading of 12 verses
of Maandukya Upanishad and 200 verses of Gaudapada Karika,
the verse commentary of Gaudapada, Sri Sankara's Guru's Guru.
I would like to post about these 212 verses, at a later date. No
other Upanishad, other than Maandukya Upanishad explains the
state in which Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi, lived His 54
years of worldly life, after His realization.)

To be contd.....

Arunachala Siva.         

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (121)
« on: August 26, 2008, 11:59:27 AM »
The Chapter XI continues.....

Verse 64:- The modifications (Vrittis) of the intellect in
which, just before sleep, bliss is reflected becomes latent
in that state, in the state of deep sleep along with the
reflected bliss, and is known as the bliss sheath.

(So the bliss sheath is (1) a Vritti, modification of the intellect (2)
which had become latent, (3) in the deep sleep state and (4)
catching the reflection of the bliss of Brahman or bliss that is
Brahman.  Or in other words, the bliss sheath is the sheath
of the intellect gone inwards and in going inward it is divested
of the sense organs and it catches and retains the reflection
of the bliss of Brahman, which the sheath of the intellect has not.)

(Another point is to be noted here.  Here, the attention of the
Chidabhasa or Jiva is complete.  In this state, the experiencer
is a latent Vritti of the intellect, enlivened and illumined not by
the Chidabhasa, but by the Witness directly, reflecting Its
bliss on it with the help of a Vritti, not of the intellect but
of Mulavidya (the primordial Knowledge), thereby preventing
the complete identity of the Jiva and Siva, the individual and
the Absolute, (here denoted as Siva) and keeping the experience
vague, and revealing Its (Mulavidya's) existence simultaneously.)

Verse 65:-  This Vritti thus turned within, which is termed
the Bliss-Sheath, Anandamaya Kosa, enoys the bliss reflected
on it in association with the modfication of ignorance, catching
the reflection of the Consciousness.

(This Anandamaya kosa is not the Self or Ananda, but a small
dose of it.  Hence we may say that Anandamaya Kosa is the
closest to the Self.  It is like silver medal in Olympics but not
the gold medal, because the silver is not gold.)

Verse 66:- The adepts in Vedanta, say that the modficiations
of ignorance are subtle, whereas those of the intellect are gross.

To be contd....

Arunachala Siva.

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (120)
« on: August 26, 2008, 11:43:05 AM »
The Chapter XI continues....

Verse 60:-  Recollection pre-supposes experience. So in
sleep, there was experience.  The bliss experienced in
dreamless sleep is revealed by consciousness itslef, which
also reveals the undifferentiated ignorance, Ajnana, covering
the bliss in that state.

Verse 61:-  The Vajasaneyins, say: "Braaman is of the nature
of Consciousness and Bliss."  Therefore, the self-luminous
bliss is Brahman Itself and nothing else.

(Vajasaneyi is a branch of Yajur Veda.  This thought is seen
in Brahadaranyaka Up. 3.9.28, which is part of that branch
of Yajur Veda.)

Verse 62:- The mind and the intellect sheaths are latent in
the state called ignorance.  Deep sleep is the condition in
which these sheaths are latent and it is therefore a
state of ignorance.

(Because the mind and the intelect were in latent state in
deep sleep, they come out during wakeful state and describe
the bliss of sleep.  Only the sleeper should wake up and tell
the world that it was bliss and not the onlookers!)

Verse 63:-  Just as melted butter again becomes solid, the
two sheaths in the state following deep sleep again becomes
manifest. The state in which the mind and intellect are latent
is called bliss-sheath. 

(In Saiva Siddhanta, it is said that the mind should be like  butter,
it should experience the bliss of Self but not tell it outside!  That
is, it should not melt away!  The Siva saints also say:  "It is like
the joy that that bride enjoyed during her nuptial night.  She
will not say it out to anyone, in the morning!  Even to her
mother, she would only 'look' at her and will not express!)

To be contd....

Arunachala Siva. 

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (119)
« on: August 26, 2008, 11:30:25 AM »
The Chapter XI continues...

Verse 56:-  The Sruti says: " In sleep, a father is no father."
Then in the absence of all worldly ideas the Jivahood is lost,
and a state of Pure Consciousness prevails.

(Brahadaranyaka Upanishad 4.3.22)

Verse 57:-  One having such notions as "I am a father"
experiences joy and grief.  When such attachment perishes.
(in sleep) he rises beyond all joy and sorrow.

Verse 58:-  A text of the Atharva Veda says, "In state of deep
sleep, when all the objectgs of experiences have absorbed and
only Tamas prevails, the Jiva enjoys bliss."

(Kaivalya Upanishad 13)

To say that the Jiva enjoys bliss, is also, in a way, not correct.
Because, the Jiva does not enjoy bliss but is only bliss.  There
is no sweetness in the sugar candy, because, there is no enjoyer.
Sugar candy is just sugar candy.  Buddha called it Maha sunya or
Maha Prajna, the great Void or the great Awareness and Sankara
called it Maha-Ananda, the great Bliss.  Becuase, Sankara experienced
that the Self is all pervasive and so cannot be void, and the Self
which is the source of all bliss, cannot but be Bliss.

Verse 59:- A man from deep sleep remembers his happiness
and ignorance and says:  I slept happily.  I know nothing else.

(Bhagavan used to mention this idea frequently.  "Sleep is a
bliss and all pervasive and that is why the person on waking up,
says, that he slept very happily and he felt 'nothing else'."  If a
sleep could be 'miserable' it means only that he had frequent
thoughts in between, with short wakeups, and the sleep got
disturbed or alternatively, he had dreams which brought in
thoughts through, sukshuma sarira, that is subtle body, the mind.

To be contd...

Arunachala Siva.

Dear Raju,  "Attending to the mother" is a good example.  For
all thoughts, the mother-thought is Who am I?  This one
thought, when pursued takes us to the Self.  Till we become the
Self, we are non dual and words have to be expressed to explain
the situation.  The Self has no word, no expression.  It is an
experience.  That is why the Upanishads say;  It is there where
the words (Vedas) have gone and come back, without finding.
Bhagavan says that the one thought is the stick that
stirs the funeral pyre.  Even this stick has to be burnt at the end.
(Who am I?  - 1902)

Arunachala Siva. 

Dear non duel,  You are correct.  Self enquiry is the enquiry into
the source of thought, the Self, but all of us have to first take
one thought, Who am I? in jnana marga, or Am I He, in Atma
Samarpanam in bhakti marga, or My work is His, in karma marga
or My breath is He is yoga marga.  Only the time is the variant here.
One realizes the Self very swiftly, others may take a longer time.
It is here, where our purva-samskarams, the inherent tendencies
of the previous births come into play.

Arunachala Siva.         

Dear mikroth,  You are correct.  There could be difficulties in
words and their meanings, because each language has got its
own idiom and etimology.  But the fact remains that the SELF
is Who, Where, When, How, Which etc., etc., because the SELF
is One without a second, and there is nothing apart from That.
It is within,without, in and out, vertical, horizonal etc., etc.,

Arunachala Siva.

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Re: Panchadasi - (83)
« on: August 26, 2008, 10:55:58 AM »
Dear Sankar,  Thank you.  Every story of 63 saints have a
common message:  Purity of mind liberates.  Here purity of
mind, denotes killing of mind, mano nasa, as Bhagavan said.

Arunachala Siva.

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Re: Panchadasi - (83)
« on: August 26, 2008, 10:53:29 AM »
Dear Raju,  Yes.  Purity of mind, which denotes egoless state,
makes us to stay in the Self.  Bhagavan, in the case of Mother
Azahgmmal, held His right hand on her chest and the left hand
on her head, till she attained Nirvana.  Even during last few
seconds, her mind experienced a few future births, and then
it resolves into the Self.  In the case of Cow Lakshmi, she had
no 'vasanas' towards her end.  Hence, Bhagavan left her, even
a few hours before her liberation and to enable her go through
the process of completing her breath and subside into the Self.

Viswanatha Swami's "108 Holy Names of Sri Bhagavan" has got
a name - Om Matru Mukti Vidhaagaya Namaha", which means
 O Who gave liberation to Mother.  It also denotes the liberation
of Cow Lakshmi, whom  Bhagavan called Amma, Matru.

Arunachala Siva.       

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (118)
« on: August 25, 2008, 05:42:41 PM »
The Chapter XI continues....

Verse 51:-  A mighty king, soverign of the world having obtained
all the enjoyments which mark the limits of human happiness,
to his full  contentment, becomes the very personification of bliss.

Verse 52:- A great Brahmana, a knower of Brahman has extended
the bliss of knowledge to its extreme limit.  He has achieved all
that was to be achieved and sit established in that state.

Verse 53:-  These examples of the ignorant, infant, the
disciminative king and the wise Brahmana are of people
considered to be happy.  Others are subject to misery
and are not very happy.

Verse 54:-  Like the infant and the other two, man passes
into deep sleep and enjoys only the bliss of Brahman.  In that
state, he, like a man embraced by his loving wife, is not conscious
of anything internal or external.

(Brahadaranyaka Up. 4.3.21)

Verse 55:-  Just as what happens outside in the street may
be called external, and what is done inside the house is
called intenal, so the experiencees of the waking state may
be called external and the dreams produced may be called

To be contd....

Arunachala Siva.

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (117)
« on: August 25, 2008, 05:25:24 PM »
The Chapter XI continues...

Verse 47:- Tied to a string, the falcon flying hither and thither
but failing to find a resting place, returns to rest on the wrist
its master, or on the post to which it is tied.

(See Chandogya Up. 6.8.2)

Verse 48:- Similarly the mind which is the instrument of Jiva,
moves on in the dreaming and waking states in order to obtain
the fruits of righteous and unrighteous deeds.  When the
experiencing of those fruits ceases, the mind is absorbed in
its cause, the undifferentiated ignorance.

Verse 49:-  The eagle rushes only to its nest hoping to find
rest there.  Similarly the Jiva eager only to experience the
bliss of Brahman rushes to sleep.

(Brahadaranyaka Up.  4.3.19)

(Bhagavan  has given the example of a bird, sitting on a ship,
going to far off sea, and coming back to the ship for rest.)

Verse 50:-  A tiny tot having fed at the breast of its mother.
lies smiling in a soft bed.  Free from desire, and aversion it
enjoys the bliss of its nature.

(Brahadarnyaka Up. 2.1.9)

to be contd....

Arunachala Siva.       

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (116)
« on: August 25, 2008, 05:05:05 PM »
The Chapter XI continues....

Verse 42:-  But the happiness experienced in deep sleep is not
obtained from any object. A man may go to sleep expecting to
be happy, but before long he experiences a happiness of
higher order.

Verse 43:-  A man fatigued in the pursuit of worldly affairs lies
down and removes the obstacles to happiness.  His mind being
calm, he enjoys the pleasure of resting in bed.

Verse 44:-  Directing his thoughts towards the Self, he experiences
the bliss of the Self, reflected in the intellect, even here
he becomes tired of the pleasures derived of the triad, of
experiencer, experience and experienced.

Verse 45:-  To remove that weariness the Jiva rushes towards
his Self, and becoming united with it, experiences the bliss of
Brahman, in deep dreamless sleep.

(See Chandogya Up. 6.8.1)

Verse 46:-  The scriptures give the following examples to
illustrate the bliss enjoyed in sleep.  The falcon, the eagle,
the infant, the great king and the knower of Brahman.

To be contd...

Arunachala Siva.

Dear nonduel,  All the ideas have been taken from Sri Sadhu
Om's books.  It is the light shown by him, a true interpreter of
Bhagavan's teachings, apart from Muruganar, Who, Graham
Boyd and David Godman.

Arunachala Siva.