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Messages - Subramanian.R

47371
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (77)
« on: August 23, 2008, 03:57:07 PM »
The Chapter IV continues....

Verse 31:- So we see there are two kinds of objects,
the 'material' and the 'mental'.  The 'material' is the
object cognized by mind being modified, by the form of
the material object.  And the 'mental' is cognized by the
Witness-Consciousness, as the Jiva being affected by the
'material' coming in contact with the mind and evoking its
latent desire for enjoyment.

Verse 32:-  By the application of the double method of agreement
and difference, we come to the conclusion that it is the 'mental'
creation which causes bondage to the Jiva, for when these
'mental' objects are there, pleasure and pain are also there;
when they are not, there is no pleasure nor pain.

Verse 33:-  In dream, when external (material) objects
are absent, man is bound by the intellect  to pleasure
and pain, although outer objects are not perceived.  In
deep sleep, in a faint and in the lower Samadhi, (when the
mental functions are temporarily suspended), no pleasure
or pain is felt in spite of the proximity of outer objects.

( A Jivanmukta's faculty of perception continues but owing
to the cessation of the egoistic portion of the faculty of understanding
the percepts do not affect him by way of causing pleasure
or pain.   I feel, this has been written exactly as what Bhagavan
Ramana perceived the outerworld.  Once a lady arranged for
'bhiksha' or 'feeding' in the Ashram, and the lady arranged 32
different dishes, comprising of sweets, rice, snacks, side dishes,
seasonings, fruits, milk, curd etc.,  When all sat for lunch and
started eating each item with great relish, asking for second and
third helpings, Bhagavan, as usual, mixed everything into a single
lump and gulped!  When someone asked, why Bhagavan did not
eat each dish seperately and enjoyed each dish, He answered,
'where is the taste, where is the enjoyment?  The stomach has
to be filled up, that is all!)

Verse 34:-  A liar told a man whose son had gone to a far-off
country, that the boy was dead, although he(the boy) was still
alive.  The father believed him and was aggrieved.

Verse 35:-  If, on the other hand, his son had really died abroad,
but no news had reached him, he would have felt no grief.  This
shows that the real cause of a man's bondage is his own mental
world.

(Bhagavan has narrated this story in 'Talks' as well as in'Day by Day'.)

To be contd....

Arunachala Siva. 
           


47372
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (76)
« on: August 23, 2008, 03:31:40 PM »
The Chapter IV continues,

Verse 22:- The Jiva creates these three feelings of happiness,
disappointment or indifference with regard to gems, but the
nature of  the gems is created by Isvara remains throughout.

Verse 23:-  Through personal relationship, one and the same
woman appears differently as a wife, daughter-in-law, a
sister-in-law, a cousin and a mother.  But she herself, remains
unchanged.

Verse 28:-  Sri Sankara says that just as melted copper
assumes the form of the mould into which it is cast, so the
mind assumes the form of the object perceived by it.

(Upadesa Sahasri 14.3-4;  Brahmasutra Bhashya I.1.12.)

Verse 29:-  Or just as sunlight assumes the form of the
objects which it illumines, so the mind assumes the forms
of objects which it perceived. 

Verse 30:-  Sri Suresvara* holds:  "Out of the cognition
that the Jiva, cognition, an appropriate modification of the
mind is produced.  Thus, born, the modification proceeds
towards the object of cognition until it gets into touch
with the object, when it assumes the form of the object,
whic is known as the cognition of the object."

(*Suresvara is one of the four direct disciples of Sri Sankara,
the other thee being, Padmapada, Hastamalaka and Mandana Misra.
Suresvara is the author of Manasa-ullasa, an advaitic treatise.
This is from 3.6)

to be contd....

Arunachala Siva.       

47373
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - 75)
« on: August 23, 2008, 02:58:05 PM »
The Chapter IV continues...

Verse 12:-  Maya of the great Isvara, has likes its power of
creation, another power which includes and hides all. It is
this power which deludes the Jivas.

(Maya deludes by making the Jiva forget his nature of Brahman.
Svetastvatara Up. 4.10)

Verse 13:-  The Jiva, thus deluded to believe himself to be
powerless and identified with a body becomes subject to
grief.  Thus is described in brief the dualited created by
Isvara.

(Svetasvatara Up. 4.7. Mundaka Up. 3.2.1)

Verse 14:-  In the Saptanna Brahmana, of the Vedas, there
is a description of the duality created by the Jiva.  By action
and reflection, the Jiva creates, seven kinds of food, that is,
objects of experience.

(Brahadaranyaka Upanishad  1.5.1-5)

Dear Non duel, 'donkey' and others., The Brahmana, are a part of Vedas.  The Vedas have four divisions.  The first is Samhita, poems eulogising various gods and elements.  There is, for example, a poem euolgising
Agni, the Fire.  Max Mueller sang this in his class room in Germany.
The second part is Brahmana, which deals with sacrifices, through
fire, with singing the glories of godhead.  The third is Aranyaka,
which deals with duties to be done in forest, when the sages
go to forest for meditation.  The fourth one is called Vedanta,
which denotes Upanishads, the crisp philosphic portion.  The
Upanishads are totally secular, beyond any religion.

Verse 19:-  In the actual creation of the objects, the modifications
or functions of Maya, the power of the Lord, are the cause.  Whereas,
for the actual enjoyment of those objects it is the modifications
or functions of the inner organs of the Jivas that are responsible.

(We have already said, when a sweemeat is taken, it is the mind
which enjoys, even though the tongue tastes it!)

Verse 20:-  Objects created by Isvara, eg. gems do not alter;
they remain the same.  But gems may affect different people
according to their mental states.

(During Napolean's time, the metal, aluminium had just
then been discovered.  Everyone thought it is a great, valuable
metal and started using it as a status symbol.  Napolean had
a aluminum cradle done for his son!   Today, aluminium is
used only for jam-cans!  Of course, certain parts of aeroplane
are made out of aluminium)

Verse 21:-  One man may feel happy on obtaining a gem,
whereas another may feel disappointed at failing to obtain
it.  And a man uninterested in it, may only look on and
feel neither happy nor disappointed.

(When a sandal wood walking stick was brought by some
one to Bhagavan, as a presentation, Bhagavan just saw it
and asked people to put in the office.  He never used it.
After a few days, He presented that stick to His school mate
Rangan!  So was the fate of  silver box which was given to Him
for keeping betel leaves and nuts.) 

to be contd.....

Arunachala Siva.             

47374
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (74)
« on: August 23, 2008, 02:35:03 PM »
The Chapter IV continues....

Verse 6:-  The Chandogya Upanishad says that before creation,
Brahman or the Self alone existed, and that His nature was
Pure Existence.  He desired to become manifold and created
all things including the fire, water, food and beings born of eggs,
and so forth.

(Chandogya Up. uses the word 'aikasta' meaning Brahman
saw - that is, Brhaman merely saw to it, so that all these are
created.)

Verse 7:-  The Mundaka Upanishad says that just as sparks
emanate from a blazing fire, so from the immutable Brahman,
arose different animate and inanimate beings.

(Mundaka Up. 2.1.1;  The Mundaka Up. conception is still
better, Brahman's sparks produced the world, no creating
not even 'seeing'.

Verse 8:-  It is also said that before its manifestation the world
existed in Brahman in a potential form; then assuming name
and form it came into being as Virat.

(Brahadaranyaka Up. 1.4.7.   Here, the imagery is like, as
Supernova brings forth stars, the world and beings came
from Brahman, as potential to names and forms).

Verse 9:-  From Virat, came into being the law givers, human
beings, cattle, asses, horses, goats and so on and so forth, both
male and female, down to the ants.  Thus says the Brahadaranyaka
Upanishad.)

(Brahadaranyaka Up. 1.4.4.  Here again, it is like the Bible.  The
law givers like Manu are the celestial beings, from them, the
other beings evolved.  See also Srimad Bhagavatam).

Verse 10:-  According to these Srutis, Brahman or Atman Himself,
assuming manifold forms as the Jivas entered into these bodies.
A Jiva is so called because it upholds vitality (the Pranas, the
breath) in a body. 

Verse 11:-  The substratum or the Pure Consciousness, the
subtle body and the reflection of Pure Consciousness on the
subtle body --  these three together consitute the Jiva.

to be contd....

Arunachala Siva.     

47375
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (73)
« on: August 23, 2008, 02:20:46 PM »
The IV Chapter of Panchadasi, is called Dwita Viveka, or
the differentiation of duality.

Verse 1:-  In this section, we shall discuss the world of duality
created by Isvara and Jiva.  By such critical discussion, the
limit of duality causing the bondage which the Jiva has to
renounce will be clear.

Verse 2:-  The Upanishad says:  'Know Maya as Prakriti
and Brahman associated with Maya, as the great Isvara',
who imparts existence and consciousness to it and guides
it.  It is He, who creates the world.

(Svetasvatara Up. 4.10)

Verse 3:-  The Upanishad says that before creation there
was Atman only, and He thought "Let me create the world"
and then He created the world by His will.

(Aitareya Up.  1.1)

Verse 4:-  The Upanishad says that from the Self or Brahman
alone arose in succession the whole creation, including the
space, air, fire, water, earth, vegetation, food and bodies.

(Taittiriya Up. 2.1)

Verse 5:- The Taittiriya Upanishad also says:  Desiring,
I shall be many, so I shall create" the Lord meditated
and thus created the world.

(Chandogya Up. 6.2.1-4 and 6.3.1;
  See also the Bible, Genesis.)

to be contd.....

Arunachala Siva.     

47376
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (72)
« on: August 23, 2008, 01:40:15 PM »
The Chapter III continues....

Verse 41:-  Brahman is called the individual soul, Jiva, when
It is viewed in association with the five sheaths, as a man,
is called father, and a grandfather in relation to his son or his
grandson.

Verse 42:-  As a man is neither a father nor a grandfather,
when considered apart from his son and grandson, so Brahman
is neither Isvara nor Jiva, when considered apart from Maya
or the five sheaths.

Verse 43:-  He knows Brahman thus becomes himself Brahman.
Brahman has no birth.  So also, he is not born again.

(Mundaka Up. 3.2.9;  Taittiriya Up. 2.1;  Katha Up. 2.18;
Chandogya Up. 8.15.1)

Concluded.

Arunachala Siva. 

47377
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (71)
« on: August 23, 2008, 01:34:27 PM »
The Chapter III continues.....

Verse 34:-  Thus has been established, here, the eternal
existence of the Self, which, according to the Sruti, is
Brahman.  And its nature, of Pure Consciousness has already
been proved by statements like 'It is Awareness itself."

Verse 35:-  Being all pervasive, Brahman is not limited by
space.  Being eternal, It is not limited by time.  And, being of
the nature of everything, It is not limtied by any objects.  Thus,
Brahman is infinite in all three respects.

Verse 36:-  Space, time and the objects in them being illusions
created by Maya, there is no limitation of Brahman by them.
Infinity of Brahman is therefore clear.

Verse 37:-  Brahman, who is existence, consciousness and
infinity is the Reality.  Its being Isvara, the Omniscient Lord
of the world and Jiva, the individual soul are mere superimpositions,
by the illusory adjuncts of Maya and Avidya respectively.

Verse 38:-  There is a power called Maya, of this Isvara. which
controls everything.  It informs all the objects from the bliss
sheath, to the physical body and the external world.

To be contd...

Arunachala Siva.

47378
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (70)
« on: August 23, 2008, 01:25:27 PM »
The Chapter  III continues....

Verse 24:-  Nobody, except through delusion, can entertain
the idea that he does not exist. So, the Sruti thus exposes
the falsity of the position of one who denies the existence
of the Self.

Verse 25:-  "He who beleives Brahman to be non-existent,
becomes non-existent himself. "  It is true that the Self
can never be an object of knowledge.  But you must accept
the existence of the Self, identified with one's own existence
as a fact.

(Taittiriya Up. 2.6)

Verse 26:-  If you ask what sort of thing the Self is, then
we reply, that the Self cannot be described as being 'this'
or 'that'.  It cannot be conceived as being 'like this' or
'like that'.  So take it as your own Real nature.

Verse 28:-  Though it cannot be made an object of knowledge,
the Self is still felt very directly.  So it must be self-revealing.
Existence-Consciousness-Infinity, the indications used for
Brahman are all present here also in the Self.

(Taittiriya Up. 2.1)

Verse 30:-  When all forms are destroyed, the formless space still
remains.  So, when all perishable things are destroyed, what
remains is That, the imperishable Brahman or Self.

(Brahadarnyaka Up.  4.4.22)

Verse 32:- It is for this that the Sruti in the passage : "That
Atman is 'not this', not this," negates all objects having names
and forms, but keep 'That' that is the Atman, the Self, intact.

to be continued.....

Arunachala Siva.   

47379
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (69)
« on: August 23, 2008, 01:04:42 PM »
The Chapter III continues....

Verse 17:- How can that, by which the whole universe is
known, be known by anything else?  By what can the knower
be known?  The mind etc,  the instruments of knowledge,
can their own percepts only.

Verse 18:-  The Self knows all that is knowable.  There is
no one to know It.  It is consciousness or knowledge itself
and is different from both the known and the unknown,
as also the knowable and the unknowable.

(Svetasvatara Up. 3.19;  Kena Up. 1.4)

Verse 19:-  How can a man teach scriptures to one who
is a man only in form but who is so dull as not to experience,
what consciousness is is every act of knowing a thing?

Verse 20:-  As it is shameful for a man to express doubt if
he has a tongue or not, as also it is shameful to say.
"I do not know what consciousness is.  I must know it now!"

(Bhagavan in Who am I?  "For Rama to know that he is Rama,
does he require a mirror?")

Verse 21:-  From whatever objects are perceived, dismiss
the objects and what remains, viz., the Pure Consciousness,
the Awareness only is Brahman.  Such an understanding is
called the determination of the nature of the  Brahman.

Verse 22:-  By dismissing the objective elements tht is the
five sheaths, what remains is the Witness of the sheaths.
That is the real nature of the Self, viz., Pure Consciousness.
Non existence cannot be attributed to it.

to be contd....

Arunachala Siva.
   

47380
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (68)
« on: August 23, 2008, 12:53:57 PM »
The I Chapter of Panchadasi, is called Panchakosha Viveka,
or the Differentiation of the Five Sheaths.

Verse 1:-  It is possible to know Brahman, which is 'hidden in
the cave' that is five sheaths, by differentiating It from from them.

(  Scriptures always indicate Brahman, as something hidden
in the cave of five sheaths.  Bhagavan also used the expression,
'Hrudayakuhar madhye"  in His Sanskrit verse in Ulladu Naarpadu
and Sri Ramana Gita, as an experiential statement.)

Verse 2:- Within the 'physical sheath, is the 'vital sheath';
within the vital sheath is the 'mental sheath'; still within,
is 'intellectual sheath' and still within is the 'blissful sheath'
or the 'enjoyer sheath'.  This succession is of one within another,
is the cave that covers Atman.

Verse 9:- There is a position or function of the intellect, which,
at the time of enjoying the fruits of good actions, goes a little
farther inward and catches the reflection of the bliss and at the
end of this enjoyment, merges in deep sleep.  This is what is
known as the sheath of bliss.

Verse 10:-  This bliss sheath also cannot be the Self, because,
it is temporal and impermanent.  That bliss which is the source
of this reflection is the Self. For, it is eternal and immutable.

Verse 13:-  As the Self is Itself of the nature of experience
only, It cannot be an object of experience. Since there is no
experiencer nor any experience other than It, the Self is
unknowable -- not because It does not exist, but because It
cannot be an object of experience.

Verse 15:-  Just as there is nothing to hinder a thing from
possessing its natural flavorur, even without being flavoured
by another thing, even as the Self there stands four-square
as the experience, viz., this awareness, even when It is not
experienced as an object of experience.

Verse 16:-  The Sruti declares, "This Atman is self revealing",
"Before the evolution of the universe, the Self alone was
shining",  "It shining, all follow the shine", "by It shines the
universe shines, that is revealed."

(Brahadaranyaka Up.  4.3.9;  Nrsimha Uttara Tapaniya Up. 2;
Mundaka Up. 2.2.11;  Katha Up. 5.15; Svetasvatara Up. 6.14)

to be contd.....

Arunachala Siva.

47381
Dear srkudai,  We are always the Being.  But since we are all
the time doing the thinking and acting, we do not realize the
Self.  Bhagavan says "Stick to one thinking, Who am I? and banish
all other thinking. 

Dear Sankar and Raju,  Partial surrender is asking for the
cake and leaving the God after the cake is given.  Or shouting
at the God, if neem leaves are given instead of the cake!
Manikkavachagar says:- "We shall receive anything that
you give, O Siva, without thinking that, this is good and that is
bad."  (Tiruvachakam).  There is a beautiful English translation
by G.U. Pope, an English Jesuit Father, who came to Tamil Nadu,
to spread Christianity, during 19th century.  He was Bishop of
Tirunelveli Diocese in southern Tamil Nadu.  He learnt Tamil
and read many religious works in Tamil and he was immensely
attacted by Tiruvachakam.  Before he died, he asked his servant,
to read out a verse in Tiruvachakam and left the body!  The verse
is:  O Siva, the concorporate consort of the lady with eyes lke
split unripe mangoes!  You can call me to Your lotus feet or
throw me into hell, I do not know your idea.  I am sufering
like a shuttle which goes hither and thither in the weaving
machine!  O I shall be lost, I seek refuge in You."  (Decad on
surrender).  For people, who do not know already,  Muruganar's
Sri Ramana Sanndhi Murai - The Song of the Holy Presence,
is entirely based on Tiruvachakam, because what Manikkavachagar
is to Siva, Muruganar is to Bhagavan Ramana.  Muruganar's
Guru Vachaka Kovai, is again based on another poem of Manikka
Vachagar, called Tiru-Chitrambala-Kovaiyar.

Arunachala Siva.
     

47382
General topics / Re: PHYSICAL EYE VS SPIRITUAL EYE
« on: August 23, 2008, 12:05:29 PM »
Dear Sankar and Raju, one gets the 'endless eye' - 'antam ila kan'
in Tamil, - 'the wisdom insight', if one is Self realized.  The physical
eyes can be donated to others, the wisdom has to be attained by
one's own self enquiry, and not by donating or reeceiving.

Arunachala Siva.

47383
General topics / Re: EGOLESS STATE
« on: August 23, 2008, 11:56:18 AM »
Dear Sankar and Raju,  All 'modifications' - vikalapas are
mind's play.  That is why Bhagavan said, "The Self shines
where  there is no mind" - Who am I?  (1902)

Arunachala Siva.

47384
General topics / Re: THEORY/ PRACTICE OF SPIRITUALITY
« on: August 23, 2008, 11:53:47 AM »
Dear Sankar & Raju, as you have said, books will help us only
to some extent.  Then, you may ask, "Why are your writing about
so many books?"  When Sankara and Bhagavan wrote so many
books, it is only to leave the seekers, to choose one that they
find it more appealing and understandable.  That is all.  Sankara
did not stop with Viveka Choodamani and Bhagavan did not stop
with Who am I?.  The idea was to give many books appealing to
different people.  Bhagavan did not write or know anything
for Self Realization.  His case is unique because He was an
avatara of Skanda, who explained the significance of Pranava
to Siva himself.  David Godman says, He was like a star suddenly
appearing from top of the hill, and came down to the foothill
to tell others about His experience!   We are all on the reverse.
We try hard to climb from downhill to the top of the hill.

Arunachala Siva.
         

47385
General topics / Re: Life-Death
« on: August 23, 2008, 11:45:22 AM »
Dear non duel,  Mind or ego, as you have correctly said, is
necessary to know the Self.  It is like, the stick that stirs
the funeral pyre.  Who am I? (1902) will not leave us. It is
one book which contains all the answers.

Arunachala Siva.