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Messages - Subramanian.R

47311
Dear skrudai,  A jnani's true state can be understood in two ways:
one, if you are also a jnani.  the second, if you get an immense
peace, the peace that passeth understanding in his presence.  The
second experience, all Bhagavan's devotees had had.

A pundit is known through your astonishment of his knowledge
but without getting any peace, from him.

Arunachala Siva.   

47312
Dear Raju,  All self realized people like Bhagavan Ramana, are knowledgeable, because the Self confers all the knowledge.
"I lisped in numbers, because numbers came to me!" -
Alexander Pope.  But all book-learned people are not self
realized, because, Self is beyond books.  As Bhagavan said
in Who am I?, "at one stage on one has to unlearn all that
is learnt."

Arunachala Siva.

47313
Dear Sankar and Raju,  'Aruna' means both the 'sunlight'
and 'remover of bondage and loans.'  What is our loan or
bondage?  It is our body consciousness.  Aruna will remove
that bondage of body consciousness.  'Achala' means,
as you have said correctly, 'unmoving'.  It therefore signifies
both the hill and Brahman or Siva, which is unmoving because
it occupies all the space and there is no more space to move
about.

Arunachala Siva.     

47314
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Re: Panchadasi - (169)
« on: August 29, 2008, 10:38:51 AM »
Dear Raju,  Kings were given as examples in the scriptures, because
they had the highest of wealth, health (due to personal doctors),
women, lands etc.,  The kings in the past were generally doing
worldy goods for their citizens.  That is why the king is taken as
an example.  But, since he was not having the bliss of Atman,
because he did not understand the unreality of the world, the Jnani
who had the bliss of Atman was considered much much better than
the kings.  e.g. Janaka and Ashtavkara.  Some of the kings went to
Jnanis to practise atma vichara.

Arunachala Siva.       

47315
Dear non duel,  Thank you for your further information on
Atma Vidya Vilasam, website.  I shall go through and take
the help from it.

Arunachala Siva. 

47316
General Discussion / Re: SELF REALISATION
« on: August 29, 2008, 10:31:23 AM »
Dear Sankar and Raju,  The selfrealized Jnanis can confer self
realization to the advanced 'seekers' provided they are ready.
The readiness implies,

a. to understand that the world, the individual soul and personal
god are imaginations.

b. to abhor worldly pleasures and put up with worldly miseries.

c. to totally trust in Guru's way and to lead a life as per Guru's words.

d. to develop viveka and vairagya, discrimination and detachment.

(Who am I?  (1902))

Arunachala Siva.



 

47317
Dear non duel,  Thank you.  Arunachala Siva, is the famous
'refrain' which is repeated by Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi.
in His 'Arunachala Akshara Mana Maalai, his famous poem.  This is
where He considers Himself, as a maiden, waiting to be married by Siva and panting for his grace.  This long poem, in which every two line
request starts with each alphabet of Tamil, starting from 'a' and runs
for 108 lines.  The refrain has to be repeated after every two lines!
The poem was composed by Bhagavan to enable His devotees to
go out to Tiruvannamalai town for begging alms and was at the
request of Palaniswami, who was His earliest devotee.  Bhagavan
Ramana has said that 'Arunachala Akshara Mana Malai' has fed
Him and His people for several years!

The purport of the phrase is Aruanchala Siva, is that the Hill,
Arunachala, is Siva Himself.   The Hill Itself is Siva.  In various
temples, there will be Siva lingam inside the sanctum sanctorum.
Here, the large Hill itself is Siva.   This is, apart from the Siva lingam,
inside the temple.  Bhagavan used to say that in Tiruvannamalai,
there are four Siva lingams.  One is the Hill, the second is inside
the temple, the third is Seshadri Swami, who was in Tiruvannamalai,
and who attained liberation, a few decades before Bhagavan and
the fourth is Bhagavan Himself.

The refrain Arunachala Siva, which helped Bhagavan to get food
for a number of early years in His life in Tiruvannamalai, is also
capable of giving food for the individual soul, the Liberation.
Arunachala Siva, is the talisman for everything in one's life, be
it health, wealth, happiness and liberation.  It starts with the
alphabet 'a'.  As said in the Bible, 'I am the alpha and omega.'

Arunachala Siva.   
   
 

47318
My dear non duel,

Thank you for your valuable information.  I shall write or phone up
to Kanchi Kamakoti Devasthanam, a Math after Sri Sankara, in
in Kanchipuram, Tamil Nadu, and  find out whether an English copy
is available.

Or otherwise, you have put up with my poor English translation.

Arunachala  Siva.

47319
Dear srkudai,  I am happy to read your nice explanations
for the requirements for understanding and attaiing the Self,
in the preliminary verses of Ashtavkara Gita.  Plese continue
daily.

Only one elaboration on Satyam, Asatyam and mithya.  This is
something, which is not there in Western philosophy.  We all
know only truth and untruth.  Upanishads also say a third one
called 'mithya', which can be translated as 'seemingly real'
or 'seemingly unreal'.  The following examples will help.

SUN is in the sky  -  This is truth, or a true statement or a real. Satyam

Son of a barren-woman -  This is always untruth, or a false
statement or unreal. - Asatyam

Snake seen in the rope at dusk -  This is seemingly real - for
sometime appears real and later on correct understanding, it is
unreal.  Mithya.

Thank you, once again, srkudai.

Arunachala Siva.   
         

47320
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (181)
« on: August 28, 2008, 01:36:33 PM »
Dear everyone,

I have just concluded Panchadasi.  It is a massive scripture like
Viveka Choodamani and these books have to be read again and
again to understand the philosphy and practice. 

James Hadley Chase and Ian Fleming and Rowling need only
one reading.  Camus, Kafka, Sartre and James Joyce require
two readings.  Nietzhe and Martin Heidegger have to read
at least thrice.  Panchadasi and Viveka Choodamani and Gauda
pada Karika, demand reading a number of times, to understand
the purport fully.  I request everyone to read these books till
they completely understand the underlying philosphy and also
practice to the extent possible. 

I propose to take up Maandukya Upanishad and Gaudapada Karika
next and then  Bhagavan's Upadesa Saram, (after I get Sri
Sadhu Om's correct interpretation.).

Arunachala Siva. 

47321
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (180)
« on: August 28, 2008, 01:30:05 PM »
The Chapter XV continues...

Verse 30:-  As in these four types of meditation, there is an
admixture of knowledge and yoga, they are not mere
meditations.  But should be considered as a direct means of
achieving the knowledge of Brahman itself.  The mind being
concentrated by meditation, this knowledge of Brahman
becomes steady.

Verse 31:- In steady knowledge, existence, consciousness
and bliss shine as a single homogeneous entity and not as
separate entities, their difference having disappeared with
the disappearane of their adjuncts

Verse 32:- It is said that the adjuncts creating difference
are sattvika, rajasika, and tamasika vrittis.  Through either
yoga or discrimination, these disturbing vrittis are removed.

Verse 33:- When the associationless self luminous and
secondless Brahman is grasped or known, there is then
no triad of knower, knowing and known.  So it is called
infinite bliss.

(The three vrittis, sattvik, rajasik and tamasik are not there
for a jnani, so he is called 'guna-tita' who is beyond three
characteristics.  In the same way, there is no seer, seen and
seeing for him, so he is called triputi-tita, beyond the three
characteristics.  Bhagavan Sri Ramana is like that.)

Verse 34:- In this, the fifteenth chapter of the book called
'the Bliss of Brahman is the Bliss of Objects' has been dealt
with.  Through this door, enter the bliss of Brahman.

Verse 35:-  May the Lord who is both Hari and Hara, ever be
pleased by this Bliss of Brahman and may He protect all creatures
who take refuge of Bliss in Him and are pure in heart.

(In Sri Sankara's the advaitic, non dual philosphy, there is no
difference between Hari, Vishnu and Hara, Siva. It is only in Sri Ramanuja's qualified non dualism, the primal entity is Hari
and so also in Sri Madhva's dualism.  It is only the Iyengars
and Raos who are qualified non dualists and dualists, the relgion
came into philosphy and created havoc in the pure philsophy of
Hindus.)

Concluded.

Arunachala Siva.     

     

47322
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (179)
« on: August 28, 2008, 01:00:13 PM »
The Chapter XV continues....

Verse 26:- In stone etc., he should reject both the name and
the form and meditate on existence.  In rajasika and  tamasika
vrittis, he should reject the misery which is associated with them,
and meditate on the existence and consciousness.

Verse 27:-  And in the sattvika vrittis, he should contemplate
on ll the three, existence, consciousness and bliss.  These
three kinds of contemplation are successively called inferior,
middling and superior contemplations. 

Verse 28:-  Even for a man of dull intelect, meditation on the
characteristics of Brahman is good.  To tell this only, the chapter
'the Bliss of Objects' is described here.

Verse 29:-  After having had enough of enough of enjoyments
when the mental modficiations become indifferent to objects,
and become detached, the contemplation regarding the bliss
of impressions arise, which is the highest.  Thus are the four
kinds of contemplation on Brahman described.

(The first three types of contemplation have reference to
particular conditions of the mind resulting from external
objects.  The fourth one arises from a neutral or indiffernt
state of mind.)

to be contd...

Arunachala Siva.       

47323
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (178)
« on: August 28, 2008, 12:49:18 PM »
The Chapter XV continues...
.
Verse 21:-  Both existence and consciousness are manifest in
the rajasika and tamasika vrittis of the intellect and all the
three are manifest in the sattvika vrittis.  Brahman associated
with the world including the vrittis is thus described.

Verse 22:-  Brahman not associated with the world is comprehended
by knowledge and yoga.  They have been spoken of earlier, the
topic of yoga is Chapter XI and knowledge in the enxt two
chapters, Chapters XII and XIII.

Verse 23:- The two,  absence of consciousnes and misery,
and non-existence --- these are the three forms of Maya.
Non-existences is illustrated by such as expressions as
'the horns of a man'.  Absence of  conscoiousness in such
objects as wood, stone etc.,

Verse 24:- There is misery in the rajasika and tamasika
vrittis.  Thus Maya is manifested.  Because of Brahman's
identifications with the vrittis of the intellect, which are
sattvika, rajasika and tamasika, Brahman is called the
'associated Brahman' or the Brahman associated with the
world.

Verse 25:-  Such being the nature of Maya and Brahman, the
man who wishes to meditate on Brahman should ignore the
objects, which have no existence, such as the horns of a man,
and concentrate properly on other objects.

to be contd....

Arunachala Siva. 

47324
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (177)
« on: August 28, 2008, 12:39:22 PM »
The Chapter XV continues....

Verse 17:- With the acquistion of the desired object the pleasing
Vritti is calmed and there is great happiness.  And in actual enjoyment,
the happiness is greater.  Even in the prospect of acquiring it,
there is some happiness.

Verse 18:- But the greatest happiness is the outome of detachment.
This subject has been dealt with in the Chapter on the Bliss of
Knowledge, "Vishayanande Brahmanande".   Like this, there is
happiness in fortitude as well as in liberality, because there are
no anger and greed.

(See ibid XIV 21-34;)

Verse 19:- Whatever happiness is experienced it is Brahman
alone, because it is a reflection of the bliss of Brahman.  When
the Vritti is directed inward or is withdrawn, the reflection of
bliss is unobstructed.

Verse 20:-  Existence, consciousness and bliss -- these are the
three fold nature of Brahman.  In objets like clay, stone and
so forth, only existence is manifest, whereas the other
two are not.

to be contd...

Arunchala Siva.   

47325
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (176)
« on: August 28, 2008, 12:21:40 PM »
The Chapter XV continues....

Verse 13:-  Neither in rajasika nor in tamsika vrittis, the
experience of bliss is seen but in sattvika vrittis, experience
of happiness is seen to a greater or lesser degree.

(The absolute bliss is not reflected by only shades of it
through sattivka vrittis.)

Verse 14:-  When a man has desires for houses, lands and
other objects then because of the agitated quality of this
desire, which is an effect of rajas, there is no happiness for him.

Verse 15:- There is misery thinking whether it will be succeed.
In failure, this misery increases.  When there are obstacles,
to success, anger arises or if opposed, it is hatred.

Verse 16:- If the opposition is too formidable to the overcome,
there is despair; that is born of tamas.  In anger etc., there
is greater misery.  Indeed even the chance of happiness is remote.

to be contd....

Arunachala Siva.