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Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (99)
« on: August 25, 2008, 11:26:28 AM »
The Chapter VIII continues....

Verse 72:- The Sruti tries to indicate the reality which is beyond
the body and the mind by using the conceptions of Jiva,
Isvara and Jagat.

(See Who am I?  After release, I am Isvara, I am the world,
I am the Jiva.)

Verse 73:-  Acharya Suresvara has said that whatever method
helps one to understand clealy the indwelling Atman is
approved by the Vedantic classics.

Verse 74:-  The dull witted, ignorant of the real meaning of
the Sruti, wanders here and there, whereas the wise, understanding
its purport, ever abides in the ocean of bliss.

Verse 75:-  Like a cloud which pours out streams of rain, Maya
creates the world, Jagat.  As the ether is not affected by the
rain, so Pure Consciousnes, that I am, suffers neither gain nor
loss from anything phenomenal world.  That is the conviction
of the wise.

Verse 76:-  He who always reflects this ' Lamp of Kutastha'
ever abides as the self-revealing Kutastha.


Arunchala Siva.       

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (98)
« on: August 25, 2008, 11:19:32 AM »
The Chapter VIII continues:-

Verse 66:-  All the classics of Vedanta proclaim the reality of
Kutastha, and they do not admit the existence of any entity
other than It.

Verse 67:-  These verses show the real meaning of the Sruti,
and do not consider the matter from a logical point of view.
The doubts of the logicians are not considered here.

Verse 68:-  The aspirant for release should give up sophistry,
and should base his conviction on the Sruti, which says that
Jiva and Isvara are creations of Maya.

Verse 69:- Isvara's creation extends from His willing to create
the world to His entrance into His creation.  Jiva's creation
includes everything from the world of the waking state to his
release from ignorance.

Verse 70:-  Kutastha is ever assocationless, it does not change.
Thus one should always meditate and reflect.

Verse 71:-  "(For Kutastha) there is no death and no birth,
none in bondage and none engaged in working out release
(Sadhaka), no aspirant for release, (Mumukshu) and none
liberated (Mukta).  That is the Supreme Truth.

(See Brahma or Amrtabindu Up. 10)

To be contd....

Arunachala Siva.       

Dear mikroth,  Your meaningful first post made me to refer to
Sri Sadhu Om's book, The Path of Sri Ramana, vol.1. again/

First, in Tamil, Who am I? is 'Naan Yar'.  Here, the verb 'am'
is not there. 

Whether your mother tongue is Tamil or English, the confusion
is common.

Second, 'Who' refers to Atma or the Self,  'I' refers to the
individual soul or self mired in ego.  Who am I?  speaks about
the identity of the Self and the individual soul.  Again, Who am I?
like 'Soham' in Sanskrit, I am Brahman, is not a 'mantra' or sacred
word.  Who am I is simply an enquiry to find the source of the
mind or ego,  the Self.

Third, Whence am I?, that is, 'Wherefrom I?' directs you to
the Self, because here the word, 'Where' does not indicate
a place but the 'which' that is, the Self.

Arunachala Siva.       

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Re: Panchadasi - (83)
« on: August 25, 2008, 09:37:46 AM »
Dear Sankar and others,  Hunter Kannappa did not know
anything excepting giving some water, flowers and meat piece to
Siva, in the temple at Kaalahasti.  One day, when the Brahmin
priest was annoyed about this sacrilege and wanted to see
who is committing this act of sin, he decided to stay in a corner
and wanted to observe.  Kannappa came, found blood gushing
of one of Siva's eyes, and without thinking anything else,
pierced out one of his eyes, and fixed it on Siva.  Then, came
the real test.  Blood was coming out of the other eye of Siva.
Kannappa decided to give his another eye too.  But how to
pierce it and place it, because with two eyes gone, he would
be blind and cannot find Siva's idol to place the eye in the
right place.  So he held his foot on the eye of Siva, for knowing
the correct place and went ahead to pierce his other eye.
Then Siva appeared and granted the hunter the salvation.

Kannappa became Kannappa Nayanar, one of the 63 great
saints of Siva.  Their glories are sung in Periya Puranam,
an epic by the poet Sekkizhar, in Tamil.

Arunachala Siva.     

Dear mikroth,  Self enquiry commences with duality.  For that
matter, devotion, bhakti, raja yoga, the breath-control, all
start with duality.  Bhagavan stressed the need to go from
dual to non dual, (if a straight practice of staying in the nondual is
not possible,) by making, for example, bhakti as Atma
Samarpana, and breath-control, as 'mere watching of the

Arunachala Siva. 

Dear mikroth,  Your post is really excellent.  As Graham said,
Bhagavan also prescribed a supplimentary enquiry, Whence am I?
after Who am I?  Both refer only to 'ahamkara' and not the 'thought'.
Wherefrom this thought arises?  Here, again the 'Where' is not
the PLACE  but the SELF, since "where" refers to 'Which'.  This
is the way in which  Sri Sadhu Om also intepreted.

At a dual level, most of us need a focal point.  This is the right side
Heart,  even though, Heart is everywhere, without in and out.
Even, the famous sloka, "Hryadaya Guhara madhye",  that is,
"In the centre of heart-cavee' also tends to point out the Heart,
at the right side of the chest.

Any one type of enquiry,  be it Who am I? or Whence am I?
is okay.  But it is not the place but of the 'thing.'

Arunachala Siva.       

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (97)
« on: August 24, 2008, 05:40:21 PM »
The Chapter VIII continues....

Verse 60:-  The Sruti declares that Jiva and Isvara are both
reflections of Brahman, in Maya.  They, are however, different
from material things in that they are transparent, that is revealing,
just as a glass is jar is different from earthern pots.

(Nrshimha Uttara Tapaniya Up. 9.  The adjuncts of Jiva and
Isvara are capable of presenting a clear reflection of consciousness,
whereas other products of Maya cannot.  Isvara is a reflection
of Pure Sattva.  Jiva is tainted by Rajas and Tamas.

Verse 61:- Though both are products of food, the mind is
subtler and purer than the body.  Similarly Jiva and Isvara
are more transparent than those of grosser products of Maya.

Verse 62:-  Jiva and Isvara, because they manifest the power
of revealing, must be considered to be endowed with consciousness.
For, nothing is difficult for Maya, that is endowed with the power
to create all things.

Verse 63:-  When we asleep, our dreams create even Jiva and
Isvara.  What wonder is there then that the Great Maya creates
them in the waking state? 

(Maya is called Sakti, Maha-Maya, is the of both Maya and

Verse 64:-  The Maya creates  omniscience and other qualities
too in Isvara.  When it can create Isvara, the receptacle of
those qualities, is it difficult  to conceive that it can also
create these qualities in Him?

Verse 65:-  If you raise the improper doubt about Kutastha,
we say, 'do not imagine that Kutastha is also a creation of
Maya.  There is no evidence for that assumption.

To be contd...

Arunachal Siva.

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (96)
« on: August 24, 2008, 05:25:46 PM »
The Chapter VIII continues...

Verse 53:-  What is the intellect?  What is the reflected
consciousness?  And what is the Self? How is the world here?
--- Because of indecision about these, these questions of ignorance
has arisen.  This illusion is called Samsara, the worldly life.

Verse 54:- How is the knower of Truth, the liberated, who knows
the true nature of the intellect, etc., mentioned above.  Thus
the Vedanta has decided.

Verse 55:-  The piece of sophistry advanced by the logicians
and others viz., "Whose is the bondage?"  must be met by
adopting the method of Khanadana-Khanda khadya*, by
Sri Harsa Misra.

(* If Brahman is the only reality, who is bound and who
requires release?  If there is nobody, the Upanishadic teachings
are in vain.  To such a question, Vedantins will reply: Do you
ask this question knowingly or unknowingly?  If unknowingly,
you confess your ignorance.  that is, you are in a state of bondage.
If knowingly, your question is improper.)

Verse 56:-  In Siva Purana, it is said, that pure consciousness,
Kutastha, exists as a witness to the rise and fall of he mental
modifications, Vrittis, their prior and posterior nonexistence
and the state of ignorance prior to inquiry about the Truth.

Verse 57&58:-  As the support of the unreal world, its nature
is existence.  As it cognizes all insentient objects, its nature
is consciousness.  And it is always the object of love,the nature
is bliss.   It is called Siva, the infinite , being the means of revelation
of all objects and being related to them, as their substratum.

Verse  59:- Thus in the Siva Purana, the Kutastha has been
described as having no particular characteristics of Jiva and
Isvara, and as being nondual, self luminous and the highest

To be contd...

Arunachala Siva.

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (95)
« on: August 24, 2008, 05:11:04 PM »
The Chapter VIII continues...

Verse 47:- In the text, "That are Thou" the word 'thou' freed
from all adjuncts, is Kutastha. In Vivarana and other advanced
works, attempts are made to establish its identity with Brahman.

Verse 48:-  The consciousness, the substratum on which the
illusion of Chidabhasa together with the body and the sense
organs is superimposed is known is known as Kutastha in

Verse 49:-  The substratum on which stands the illusion of the
whole world, is described in the Vedanta by the word Brahman.

Verse 50:-  When the whole world of Maya is recognized, as
a superimposition on this one consciousness, Brahman,what to
speak of Jiva who is only a part of this world.

Verse 51:- The difference between the entities indicated by
"That"  and "Thou" is due to that of the superimposed world
and Jiva, which is only a part of it.  In reality, they are one

Verse 52:-  That it is a genune case of superimposition is proved
by the fact, that Chidabhasa, the reflected consciousness,
partakes of the characteristics of both, the superimposing
intellect such as agentship, enjoyership etc., and the superimposed
Atman which is Consciousnes.  So, the whole  Chidabhasa is a
creation of illusion.

To be contd...

Arunachala Siva.           

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (94)
« on: August 24, 2008, 05:01:06 PM »
The Chapter VIII continues...

Verse 42:-  (Objection):  How can the changeable Jiva say,
"I am Brahman" since Brahman is immutable?  (Reply) He can,
because, in spite of apparent discrepancy between Jiva and
Brahman, the identity is established by giving up the false notion
about the Jiva.  What appeared, under the influence of Maya,
as Jive really none other than Brahman.

Verse 43:-  A man may be mistaken for the stump, a tree.  But
the notion of the stump is destroyed when the man is known to
be a man.  Similarly when the Jiva knows "I am Brahman" his
notion, "I am intellect, the ego-consciousness in the mind
is destroyed.

(See Naishkarmya Siddhi 2.29)

Verse 44:-  Acharya Suresvara in his Naishkarmaya Siddhi,
describes clearly how Jiva and Brahman are found to be
identical when the false notion about the Jiva, viz., its
identity with the intellect is destroyed.  Therefore the text,
"I am Brahman is to be understod in this sense.

Verse 45:-  In another Sruti text, "Everything is Brahman"
Brahman and the universe are shown to be identical.  It
also is to be interpreted in the above sense, viz., what appears
to be 'all this' that is, the universe is really Brahman.  Similarly
in the text, "I am Brahman" the same identity of Jiva and
Brahman is indicated.

(Chandogya Up. 3.14.1;  Brahadaranyaka Up. 1.4.10;)

See Who am I ? of Bhagavan.  He says:  The world, the jiva
and Isvrara are Brahman.  All are Siva swarupa.

Verse 46:-  It is true that the author of the Vivararana gloss
has denied the Badha-samanadhikaranya* interpretation
and has accepted the Mukhyasamanadhikaranya** interpretation
of "I am Brahman".  It is because he has taken the "I" in the
sense of Kutastha-caitanya and not in the sense of Chidabhasa.

( I shall explain the two terms, * and ** under a separate post.

To be contd..

Arunachala Siva.   

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (93)
« on: August 24, 2008, 03:55:46 PM »
The Chapter VIII continues....

Verse 36:-  (Objection):  Chidabhasa and the intellect enter the
body together.  (Reply): This is not so, for in the Aitreya Upanishad,
it is said that the Self enters the body by its own will apart from the

(The question of the intellect entering the body does not arise,
since mind, intellect, ego and mind stuff, are parts of the body,
and not a separate entity.  Aitreya Upanishad 1.3.11-12)

Verse 37:-  The Upanishad says that the Self (Atman) thought:
"This body with the organs cannot live without me", and so cleaving
the centre of the skull, it entered into the body and started
experiencing the changeable states, that is wakeful, dream and
and deep sleep etc.,

Verse 38:- (Objection): How can the associationless Kutastha
be said to animate the body by entering it?  (Reply): Then how
did It create the universe?  (Objection): Both the acts of creation
and entering the body are caused by Maya. (Reply):  Then,
they vanish too when Maya is destroyed.  It does not happen
in the case of Jivan muktas.

Verse 39:-  The Self becomes the ego identifying itself with the
body composed of the five elements.  And when the body perishes
once for all, the ego also perishes with it.  Thus said Yagnavalyaka
to Maitreyi.

(Brahadaranyaka Up.  4.5.13)

Verse 40:-  "This Self is not perishable"-- thus the Sruti
differentiates the Kutastha from everything else.  "The Self is
assocationless"  -- such statements sing the ever detached
state of Kutastha.

(Brahadaranyaka Up.  4.5.14, 4.3.15, and 4.4.22;)

Verse 41:-  The passage which says that the body dies and not
the Jiva does not mean that he is released, but only that he

(Chandogya Up. 6.11.3; Brahadaranyaka Up. 4.4.2-4;)

Jiva continues in trasnmigration but it perishes with the liberation
when the body perishes once for all.

To be contd....

Arunachala Siva.

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (92)
« on: August 24, 2008, 03:31:27 PM »
The Chapter VIII continues....

Verse 30:-  In measuring out rice and other grains, it makes
no difference to their quanity whether the measure be made
of wood or metal.

Verse 31:-  If you say, though it makes no difference in measuring,
the metalic measure does give reflection, we reply that such is
the property of the inner organ (Antahkarana, in that it can reflect
consciousness, as Chidabhasa/

(Manasa Ullasa - 4.4.10)

Verse 32:-  "Abhasa" means slight or partial modfication,
"Pratibimba" is also like that, that is, partial manifestation.
It does not have the properties of the real entity but resembles
it in having some of them.

(Abhasa can be translated in English as 'shadow'.  Pratibimba,
is mirror image.  Both are not real.)

Verse 33:- As Chidabhasa is associated and variable, it is
devoid of the characteristics of Kutastha.  But as it renders
objects capable of being cognized,  it resembles Kutastha.
Such is the opinion of the wise.

Verse 34:-  (Objection):  The scriptures declare the survival
of the intellect after the body falls, and therefore the intellect
is the same as Cidabhasa.  (Reply):  According to the Sruti
passage which declare the entry of the Atman or the Self into
the body, Chidabhasa is distinct from the intellect. 

(See Brahadaranyaka Up. 4.4.2; Aitreya Up. 1.3.12;
Taittiriya Up. 2.6;)

to be contd....

Arunachala Siva.


Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (91)
« on: August 24, 2008, 03:16:58 PM »
The Chapter VIII continues.....

Verse 25:-  The earlier teachers have made it clear that Kutastha
is the witness in passages, like 'It is the witness of the intellect,
-Anthakarana, and its operations,, Vrittis.

(See Vakyavritti 11 and Chater 4.31)

Verse 26:-  They have also declared that Kutastha, Chidabhasa
and the mind ar related in the same way as the face. its
reflection and the mirror.  This relationship is proved through
scriptures and reasoning.  Thus Chidabhasa also has been

(Upadesa Sahasri 18.43 and 109)

Verse 27:- (Objection):  Kutastha conditioned by the intellect
can pass to and return from the other worlds, like the Akasa,
the Space, enclosed in a pot.  Then, what is the necessity of
postulating Chidabhasa?

(Katha Up. 2.24)

Verse 28:- (Reply):  Being merely conditoned by an object
such as the intellect, Kutastha does not become a Jiva.
Otherwise, even a wall or a pot, which is pervaded by Kutastha,
become a Jiva.

Verse 29:- (Obejction): The intellect is different  from the wall,
for it is transparent.  (Reply):  It may be so, but why do you
bother about opaqueness or transparency of the conditioner?
For, you concern must be with the condition, not the conditoner?

to be contd....

Arunachala Siva.

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (90)
« on: August 24, 2008, 02:47:25 PM »
Verse 21:-  That consciousness which witnesses the interval
between the disappearance and the rise of successive Vrittis,
and the period when they do not exist, and which is itself
unmodifiable, and immutable is called Kutastha.

(Kutastha is unchanging like a 'kuta', the anvil of the blacksmith!)

Verse 22:-  As in the cognition of an external pot, there is
the play of two forms of consciousness -- the reflection of
consciousness which reveals the pot and secondly the Eternal
Consciousness w;ich reveals that the pot is known.

Verse 23:-  Unlike a pot, the intellect is neither an object of
cognition nor of non cognition.  For it cannot grasp itself,
no object can do so, so it cannot be cognized.  Since again,
it removes ignorance settled on objects, it cannot be said to be
non-cognized.  Because, if you know, what is produced,  you
know what produced it as well.

Verse 24:-  Since Chidabhasa, is a double consciousness, we
see it manifested and unmanifested.  Therfore, it cannot be
called immutable Kutasthta, whereas the other is Kutastha,
for it undergoes no such change ever.

To be contd...

Arunachala Siva.

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (89)
« on: August 24, 2008, 02:37:21 PM »
The Chapter VIII continues...

Verse 16:-  The cognition, "This is a pot" is due to Cidabhasa,
but the knowledge, "I know the pot" is derived from

Verse 17:-  Just as in object outside the body, Chidabhasa
has thus differentiated from Brahman, so within, the body
too Chidabhasa is to be differentiated from immutable Kutastha.

Verse 18:-  As fire pervades red-hot piece of iron, as Chidabhasa
pervades the I consciousness as well as lust, anger and
other emotions.

Verse 19:-  Even as a red-hot piece of iron manifests itself
only and not other objects, similarly the modifications of the
intellect, Vrittis, aided by Chidabhasa manifest themselves
only that is the things which they cover and not others.

(Manasa Ullasa - 4.2)

Verse 20:-  All the modfications are produced one and after
another, that is wtih gaps in between, and they become latent,
during deep sleep and in the states of swoon and Samadhi.

(Refer Who am I?  for this idea also)

To be contd....

Arunachala Siva.