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Messages - Subramanian.R

46981
Dear Ramanaduli, srkudai, Dr. Raju and Sankar,

The list is legion.  Chinmayananda used to have snifff of snuff of and
of one, even during his Gita discourses.  One Koti Swami, who lived
somewhere on the way to Tiruvannamalai, and who is the guru of
famous Ilaya Raja of Tamil Cinema music, was a chain smoker.  People
used to give him cigaratees as 'offering'!  He not only smoked but even
to disciples, he used to give a half-smoked cigarattes for a puff. The
devotees who were not smokers used to take the cigaratees, would
have a puff, as Prasad (!!!)  and suffer unending coughs!
Ram Surat Kumar used to do the same thing.  Shirdi Sai Baba used to
have hookah and so also Sri RK and Swami Vivekananda.  This is not
to drive home the point that everyone should have a smoke or a
chew, for self realization!

Bhagavan Ramana, was altogether different.  He used to have some
betal leaves and nuts, for some time, more for digestion and not for
pleasure.  Even that habit got stopped once when an attendant failed
to bring it after lunch.  It was a nimitta to stop that habit.  Gurram
Venkata Subbaramaiah has composed a Telugu song titled Thamboola
Vaibhavam on that incident! 

In the end, there will be time, there  will be time, when everything
looks alike! (T.S. Eliot)

Arunachala Siva.   

46982
Dear Ramanaduli,

I am happy that the topic is shifting from tobacco to other more
important aspects.  Fate and free will -- these two, as per Bhagavan
Ramana's words, are only for who is not self realized. The self-
realized Jnani is beyond both, because there is nothing other than
Self for him.  So we are all coming under the dyads of fate and
free will and there is no escape, till we realize the Self.  Again the
prarabdha is there for all of us, including Jnanis.  For the Jnanis,
the effects of prarabdha, be it good or evil fruits do not affect him.

Arunachala Siva.  

46983
Dear Ramanaduli, I was not trying to say that the habit is per se
bad or good.  What I was trying to say was that deliberate attempts
to abhorrance of habits that are not societally harmful, will bring
forth contamination of the mind as much as the alternate.  When
some householders wanted to embrace sannyasa, Bhagavan said
different guidelines to different devotees.  He said, 'No' to someone
and 'Okay' to some others.  Hence when one is fit enough this will
happen, be it taking up sannyasa or giving up tobacco.  Of course,
I agree that we should not harm the body, which is a vehicle given
by God, for our pursuit.  But one's prarabdha has to be worked out,
and that is all.

Arunachala Siva.

46984
Dear srkudai,

What I was stressing is the same idea of conditioning of the mind.
Desiring and deliberate non-desiring or abhorring, as in the case
of tobacco chewing, are both responses of conditoning of mind or
a conditoned mind.  Bhagavan said the same thing in the case of
onions for His mother.  Wanting onions or deliberately avoiding onions
are both conditions of mind.  Onions per se or tobacco per see will
not come in the way of Self realization or self enquiry.  There were
several Siddhas who were consuming ganja in the Hills.  Bhagavan
Himself was offered the same in a few times.  What Bhagavan Ramana
said about the ganja was that it will spoil the mind further in case one
is full of bad thoughts in his mind.  If one's mind is having good thoughts
about the need for liberation and efforts towards it, that would help him in
his path.  I am not saying that tobacco or betel nuts are in the same
footing.  I was answering only from the point of deliberate avoiding,
because that would remain as unfulfilled desire in the mind and spring
up much more forcefully at a latter state.  Like Jadabharatha loving
a deer towards the end of his life.  One should allow the prarabdha
to run its course.  Again one cannot lust a neighbour's wife saying
that this is his prarabdha.  In that case, the society would intervene
for the social justice.

A similar incident in Mother Azhagamma's life.  She wanted greens from
the Hills and asked Akhilandamma to bring some. When the lady brought
this, she was afraid of Bhagavan Ramana and so she sent them through
Ramanatha Brahmachari.  When Ramanatha brought them, it was
observed by Bhagavan Ramana, who told Azhagamma that if she
wanted such things she could as well go back to Madurai.  Here the
case is one of deliberate wanting, creating difficulties for others.
So was also the papad-batter which Mother broght from downtown
Tiruvannamalai, to make papads.  Bhagavan chided her jocularly.
These, onions, greens and papads decribed, are the cases of the non-deliberate and deliberate conditionings of mind.  If onions were not there
in the Cave, Bhagavan would not have asked someone to deliberately
bring them and made samabhar!  Because they were there, and they
per se, do not come in the way of self enquiry, He did not prohibit them.

Arunachala Siva.   

46985
Dear srkudai,  My case is different.  I am the one who believes that
such external controls upon me, will not give any special benefits
to me.  These simple desires, so long, as they are within the societal
ambits, (because we are living in a society and not in a jungle), need
not be suppressed.  I chew pan-parag, ghutka variety.  I am not
harming anyone with this practise. So it is okay so long as I do not
exceed the limitations on this bad habit.  Again smoking, drinking etc.,
If one drinks liquor excessively and molest a woman on the road
or hit his vehicle upon a pedestrian, then he crosses the societal
limits.  That is harmful for him and the society. Then, should these
habits to be dropped?  It depends upon one's prarabdha.  It is not
a blockade to self enquiry.  But showing anger upon others, cheating
others, harming others, these do create problems right from the first
step.  There could be different views.

Arunachala Siva.       

46986
Arunachala / Re: girivalam
« on: October 14, 2008, 10:43:15 AM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

There are said to be three roads for Arunachala Giripradakshina.
One is the inner most road, in jungles, skirting the Hills.  Nobody
tries this.  The middle road is on the foothills, where only one can
walk and others have to be follow him.  Two or three cannot walk,
hand in hand.  The third one is the outermost road, which is asphalted
for cars and other vehicles can go.  Here only, most of the devotees
walk.  The road is broad.  This is about 14 kms in cicrumference.
Here is where, you can come across the eight lingams and small
temples for them.

Arunachala Siva.
 

46987
General Discussion / Re: SILENCE IS THE SELF
« on: October 13, 2008, 07:09:49 PM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

Mounam or Silence is not merely abstaining from mouthing of words.\
In silence, mind works out so many thoughts.  True Silence is a
thoughtlessness.  When the words and thoughts cease their work,
naturally, the deeds also will not take place.  In Kanchipuram, Sri
Chandrasekara Saraswati used to observe kashta mounam, where
even swallowing the saliva will not be there, since swallowing of
saliva will also make a noise. 

Bhagavan Ramana's mounam was speechless, thoughtless and
actionless. That is the state, by practising which, one can attain
the self.  Bhagavan also said that the mounam is an uninturrupted
speech, in the sense that at that stage the individual souls talks
for ever with the Self.

Arunachala Siva.

46988
General topics / Re: jnani and brahma jnani
« on: October 13, 2008, 02:17:56 PM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

Regarding, pancha prana, it means five airs, prana, apana etc.,
It is mentioned in Who am I?

Regarding a Self-conscious janani leaving his prana in sleep...
I do not know the answer.

Regarding, arivu and perarivu, the first denotes the empirical knowledge
of worldly mattes including scriptural knowledge.  But the second,
is Brahman.

Self is without body, coceptually speaking.  It is only existence, knowledge and bliss.  But since, Self is everything and there is nothing beyond it,
it should include body too.

Arunachala Siva.     

46989
General topics / Re: what is good karma
« on: October 13, 2008, 12:29:44 PM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

There are a couple of things.  Vichara is not difficult.  It becomes
difficult because we have no purity of mind, Chitta suddhi.  This
can be done only by karmas?  Who said that you have to leave the
karmas?  No.  You have to do karmas, but see that these are not
harmful to others.  A good karma is one when it is also good if it
is done to you by others.  You are having acute head ache.  Some
one in the office gives you a tablet and a cup of coffee.  This helps
you to get rid of the pain.  So helping others in times of need is a
good karma.  So, you have also to do the same thing, when someone
else suffers.  Bhagavan Ramana has said:  "If one gives to others,
he is giving it to himself?  If one knows this, who will not do but
give?"  (Who am I?).  I used to contemplate on this sentence for
a long time.  It is truth!  If one gives good to others, he is giving good
to himself.  If one is giving bad to others, he is giving bad to himself.
So all karmas can be good, if those karmas satisfy this yardstick.

Arunachala Siva.       

46990
Dear Ramanaduli,  When the mind is vanquished, there is only
Matter.  Matter is ever blissful.  No pain, no suffering, no misery,
no happiness. It just IS.

Arunachala Siva.

46991
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Re: Panchadasi - (169)
« on: October 12, 2008, 11:19:29 AM »
Dear Ramanaduli,  Such kings like Manu Needhi Chozhan and
Sibhi Chakrvarti had exhibited excellent conducts and justice.
They might or might not have been Brahma Jnanis.  But they
were ready for Brahma Jnana, with their chitta-suddhi.

Arunachala Siva.

46992
General topics / Re: Swayambhu linga on Bhagawan's body
« on: October 12, 2008, 11:15:33 AM »
Dear Dr. Raju, Yes. Only a Brahma-Jnani can utter words like that.
Similarly when leeches were placed on the wound, to suck the
bad blood, oneday someone forgot to remove them and they were
going on sucking blood and were lying silent on the wound.  Bhagavan
said:  The leeches have attained Samadhi!

Arunachala Siva.

46993
General topics / Re: Moksha to Bhagawan
« on: October 12, 2008, 11:11:18 AM »
Dear Dr. Raju,  There is a simlar story.  Once a visitor pestered
Bhagavan, by repeating:  Give me power to realize like Ramakrishna
gave to Vivekananda.  Bhagavan said after a while:  All right.
I shall give you.  But, are have prepared yourself like Vivekananda.
Tell me.  The visitor thought for a while and left quietly!  Again,
one Western lady came to Bhagavan in  a hurry, and exclaimed
"Bhagavan, give me salvation, give me salvation!"  Bhagavan,
as usual, kept quiet.  After a while, the lady repeated:  Give
me salvation, I have to catch a train now!"  Bhagavan did not
say anything and she left.  After that, Bhagavan said:  "She is
thinking that she can get salvation, as she purchases some grocery,
in the stores!"

Arunachala Siva.

46994
General topics / Re: Akarma(nondoership)
« on: October 12, 2008, 11:04:29 AM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

The ignorance is alone is the villain of the peace.  Ignorance or
ajnana is one which makes us to have desires for worldly things,
do things with ego and get feelings like pain and pleasure, happiness
and misery, good and bad.  Ignorance is like darkness and the
mere presence of Knowledge removes the darkness.  The
sun or lamp should be "merely" present and it does not eradicate
the darkenss; the darkness merely disappears.

Arunachala Siva. 

46995
General Discussion / Re: SILENCE IS THE SELF
« on: October 12, 2008, 10:56:03 AM »
Dear Sankar, Yes.  Silence is where nothing else appears.  Silence
is where there are no attachments, because in non-attachment,
nothing appears.  (Who am I?)

Arunachala Siva.