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Messages - Subramanian.R

General Discussion / Re: What is the real life
« on: October 17, 2008, 10:11:35 AM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

Real life is beyond the three states of waking, dream and deep sleep.
This is called Turiya, or the Fourth.  Bhagavan has said: There is no
Turiya.  There is only one state."

Regarding some devotees asking God to permit them live in this
world or in Vaikunta, or in Kailasa, is a dualistic concept.
Ramanuja and Madhva preferred this state as per their schools.
It is like wanting to eat a sugar candy.  Sankara said, "I would
like to become a sugar candy myself."

Arunachala Siva.   

Dear Ramanaduli, Gangajal, Dr. Raju and srkudai,

Kundalini or Raja marga is one of the methods of cleaning the mind.
There are other methods under Bhakti and Karma margas.

I believe that we should stop this ping-pong game of whether plugging
or cleaning is the real cleaning.  It is for etymologists to battle out
the roots of these words and do the boxing in the ring.  I have given
my views and srkudai has given his views.  Both may be correct.
Nevertheless, I do not want to have the last laugh!

Arunachala Siva.     

Dear srkudai, Plugging  the leaks, removing the dirt slags after water
had evaporated, removing the unwanted furniture and garbage, sweeping the room, refixing a fused mercury bulb, repairing the non-revolving fan, throwing out the old newspapers, giving away their old clothes to the poor, giving the unused medicines and spectacles to some NGO, tearing off the old unwanted letters and throwing them to the dustbin, all are 'cleaning'.

Arunachala Siva.   

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: The real "I"
« on: October 16, 2008, 12:37:11 PM »
Dear Ramanaduli, There are no two 'I's, the Real and the false.
There is only one, and only 'I', the Real.  But when this Real
I , is is hidden by various screens, mind-body complexities, then
it is not visible or it is seen as 'I', the body-mind consciousness.
The self enquiry is to remove the screens and not to find out the
false 'I' and throw him out!   As I said elsewhere, you remove the
encumbrances in the house to make it clean.  Bhagavan used
two Tamil words, 'Naan' and 'Thaan' in Who am I? to distinguish
these two situations.  When English translators like Paul Brunton
and Arthur Osborne came, they had to use to different cannotations
to denote the difference, hence, they used 'I" and "I--I".  There is
no direct word in English for these.  Some one else used, 'i' and 'I"
but the problem remains!

You say you are not able to find out the Awareness after reading
Who am I?  Read it every day, many many times.  I read it atleast
500 times, both the question- answer type and the narrative
essay, the English Version and Tamil version.  Then I have understood
bit by bit.  Even today, I read it once every day, and every day,
I get new insights.  Bhagavan said:  "Lo, it is easy this Atma Vidya."
But most of us find it, that it is not easy.  He said it is easy because,
there is no need to go elsewhere, there is no need to go to many
teachers, there is no need to refer to many books, and it is
within us, ever present, shining, blissful and direct.

Arunachala Siva.           

Dear srkudai, Ramanaduli and Gangajal,

Yesterday I did not reply srkudai, straightaway, because I wanted
others to give their views.  Cleaning the mind is necessary, since,
first we have to remove the encumberances, to find it fit for the
Self.  The term Chitta-suddhi, involves "suddham", the cleaning and
making it neat and tidy.  It is like a servant making the house neat,
before the Master comes in.  It is not that Master is away, but he is
always there in us, but, he should be happy to have a clean house.

Reg. JK, I have already written in this Forum.  He needed a December,
chill climate in Madras, for him to give his lectures!  He needed an
airconditoned villa for him to stay in Vasanta Vihar, in Adyar, Madras.
Then finally there is saying in Tiruk Kural, a Tamil book of ethics,
written by Tiruvalluvar, about 2000 years back.  He said:  A man's
fitness would be known only by what he left behind after his death.
JK left behind him a lot of controversy, including his 'questionable'
relationship with his student's wife, Ms. Rosalind Rajagopal.  An
authentic article came after his demise in news papers.  On that
day, I bundled all his books and threw them away into my attic!
In Othello  Iago tells about the hero, " Mere prattle without
practice is all his soldiership!"  This fits well for JK.

Arunachala Siva.        

General topics / Re: cosmic body and physical body
« on: October 16, 2008, 12:00:10 PM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

Cosmic body or the universal body, is this universe, which comprises
of five elements, ending with Akasa, the Space.  Our physical body
is made up of these five elements, panch bhutas.  So, what is in andam
is also in pindam.  The shthula saria or gross body is thus explained.
The subtle body and the causal body are due to our own mind and
in built vasanas.  These are mental creations, hence we cannot expect
them in Cosmic body, which is the form of Brahman.

Upadhi or adjuncts are the screens around us.  These are there right
from the baby's creation in the womb.  When a life starts its journey,
from the womb, it has come carrying those vasanas and the prana,
from the previous birth.  When one dies, what dies is the body,
but the prana carries its vasanas and run away.  This portion is
explained in Who am I? 

Arunachala Siva.     

Dear srkudai, Ramanaduli,

All religious practices are only for cleansing the mind, be it pooja,
dhyana, tapas etc., etc., All efforts go only to remove the dirt in
the mind.  We do it day after day, day after day, like shaving your
your face.  One day you will find that your cheeks are clean!

Arunachala Siva.   

Dear srkudai, I totally agree with you on this point.  Make
necessities as luxuries.  A second TV, a lap top over and above
a desk top.  Two cell phones instead of one. That way, as you
have said, one can make any habit like tobacco, into a luxury
and stop it, eventually.  I had a car about 10 years back and I
sold it.  I do not need it now.  Whenever I have to go to air port
or Tiruvannamalai, once in two or three months, I engage a rental car, thus making a necessity into a luxury.  That, I think, is the correct

Arunachala Siva.

Dear Ramanaduli, srkudai, Dr. Raju and Sankar,

The list is legion.  Chinmayananda used to have snifff of snuff of and
of one, even during his Gita discourses.  One Koti Swami, who lived
somewhere on the way to Tiruvannamalai, and who is the guru of
famous Ilaya Raja of Tamil Cinema music, was a chain smoker.  People
used to give him cigaratees as 'offering'!  He not only smoked but even
to disciples, he used to give a half-smoked cigarattes for a puff. The
devotees who were not smokers used to take the cigaratees, would
have a puff, as Prasad (!!!)  and suffer unending coughs!
Ram Surat Kumar used to do the same thing.  Shirdi Sai Baba used to
have hookah and so also Sri RK and Swami Vivekananda.  This is not
to drive home the point that everyone should have a smoke or a
chew, for self realization!

Bhagavan Ramana, was altogether different.  He used to have some
betal leaves and nuts, for some time, more for digestion and not for
pleasure.  Even that habit got stopped once when an attendant failed
to bring it after lunch.  It was a nimitta to stop that habit.  Gurram
Venkata Subbaramaiah has composed a Telugu song titled Thamboola
Vaibhavam on that incident! 

In the end, there will be time, there  will be time, when everything
looks alike! (T.S. Eliot)

Arunachala Siva.   

Dear Ramanaduli,

I am happy that the topic is shifting from tobacco to other more
important aspects.  Fate and free will -- these two, as per Bhagavan
Ramana's words, are only for who is not self realized. The self-
realized Jnani is beyond both, because there is nothing other than
Self for him.  So we are all coming under the dyads of fate and
free will and there is no escape, till we realize the Self.  Again the
prarabdha is there for all of us, including Jnanis.  For the Jnanis,
the effects of prarabdha, be it good or evil fruits do not affect him.

Arunachala Siva.  

Dear Ramanaduli, I was not trying to say that the habit is per se
bad or good.  What I was trying to say was that deliberate attempts
to abhorrance of habits that are not societally harmful, will bring
forth contamination of the mind as much as the alternate.  When
some householders wanted to embrace sannyasa, Bhagavan said
different guidelines to different devotees.  He said, 'No' to someone
and 'Okay' to some others.  Hence when one is fit enough this will
happen, be it taking up sannyasa or giving up tobacco.  Of course,
I agree that we should not harm the body, which is a vehicle given
by God, for our pursuit.  But one's prarabdha has to be worked out,
and that is all.

Arunachala Siva.

Dear srkudai,

What I was stressing is the same idea of conditioning of the mind.
Desiring and deliberate non-desiring or abhorring, as in the case
of tobacco chewing, are both responses of conditoning of mind or
a conditoned mind.  Bhagavan said the same thing in the case of
onions for His mother.  Wanting onions or deliberately avoiding onions
are both conditions of mind.  Onions per se or tobacco per see will
not come in the way of Self realization or self enquiry.  There were
several Siddhas who were consuming ganja in the Hills.  Bhagavan
Himself was offered the same in a few times.  What Bhagavan Ramana
said about the ganja was that it will spoil the mind further in case one
is full of bad thoughts in his mind.  If one's mind is having good thoughts
about the need for liberation and efforts towards it, that would help him in
his path.  I am not saying that tobacco or betel nuts are in the same
footing.  I was answering only from the point of deliberate avoiding,
because that would remain as unfulfilled desire in the mind and spring
up much more forcefully at a latter state.  Like Jadabharatha loving
a deer towards the end of his life.  One should allow the prarabdha
to run its course.  Again one cannot lust a neighbour's wife saying
that this is his prarabdha.  In that case, the society would intervene
for the social justice.

A similar incident in Mother Azhagamma's life.  She wanted greens from
the Hills and asked Akhilandamma to bring some. When the lady brought
this, she was afraid of Bhagavan Ramana and so she sent them through
Ramanatha Brahmachari.  When Ramanatha brought them, it was
observed by Bhagavan Ramana, who told Azhagamma that if she
wanted such things she could as well go back to Madurai.  Here the
case is one of deliberate wanting, creating difficulties for others.
So was also the papad-batter which Mother broght from downtown
Tiruvannamalai, to make papads.  Bhagavan chided her jocularly.
These, onions, greens and papads decribed, are the cases of the non-deliberate and deliberate conditionings of mind.  If onions were not there
in the Cave, Bhagavan would not have asked someone to deliberately
bring them and made samabhar!  Because they were there, and they
per se, do not come in the way of self enquiry, He did not prohibit them.

Arunachala Siva.   

Dear srkudai,  My case is different.  I am the one who believes that
such external controls upon me, will not give any special benefits
to me.  These simple desires, so long, as they are within the societal
ambits, (because we are living in a society and not in a jungle), need
not be suppressed.  I chew pan-parag, ghutka variety.  I am not
harming anyone with this practise. So it is okay so long as I do not
exceed the limitations on this bad habit.  Again smoking, drinking etc.,
If one drinks liquor excessively and molest a woman on the road
or hit his vehicle upon a pedestrian, then he crosses the societal
limits.  That is harmful for him and the society. Then, should these
habits to be dropped?  It depends upon one's prarabdha.  It is not
a blockade to self enquiry.  But showing anger upon others, cheating
others, harming others, these do create problems right from the first
step.  There could be different views.

Arunachala Siva.       

Arunachala / Re: girivalam
« on: October 14, 2008, 10:43:15 AM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

There are said to be three roads for Arunachala Giripradakshina.
One is the inner most road, in jungles, skirting the Hills.  Nobody
tries this.  The middle road is on the foothills, where only one can
walk and others have to be follow him.  Two or three cannot walk,
hand in hand.  The third one is the outermost road, which is asphalted
for cars and other vehicles can go.  Here only, most of the devotees
walk.  The road is broad.  This is about 14 kms in cicrumference.
Here is where, you can come across the eight lingams and small
temples for them.

Arunachala Siva.

General Discussion / Re: SILENCE IS THE SELF
« on: October 13, 2008, 07:09:49 PM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

Mounam or Silence is not merely abstaining from mouthing of words.\
In silence, mind works out so many thoughts.  True Silence is a
thoughtlessness.  When the words and thoughts cease their work,
naturally, the deeds also will not take place.  In Kanchipuram, Sri
Chandrasekara Saraswati used to observe kashta mounam, where
even swallowing the saliva will not be there, since swallowing of
saliva will also make a noise. 

Bhagavan Ramana's mounam was speechless, thoughtless and
actionless. That is the state, by practising which, one can attain
the self.  Bhagavan also said that the mounam is an uninturrupted
speech, in the sense that at that stage the individual souls talks
for ever with the Self.

Arunachala Siva.