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Messages - Subramanian.R

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (42)
« on: August 21, 2008, 03:26:12 PM »
The Chapter IX continues....

Verse 123:- A 'leading error' leads to the desired goal, when
it becomes knowledge.  Similarly, meditation on Brahman,
when ripened leads to release and becomes real knowledge.

Verse 124:- (Doubt): A man working prompted by a 'leading
error' gets correct knowledge, not by the 'leading error' but
by another evidence.  (Reply):  The meditation on the Brahman,
may also be taken as the cause of other evidence like Nidhidhyasana,
leading to direct realization.

Verse 125:-  (Doubt): Meditation on the form of a deity and
repetition of a sacred formulae also lead to the goal. (Reply):
Let it be so.  But the speciality of meditation on the Brahman
is that it is the nearest to the goal of Self-realization.

Verse 126:-  When meditation on the attributeless Brahman
is mature it leads to Samddhi.  This state of intense concentration
at ease leads on to the Nirodha state in which the distinction
btween subject and object is eliminated.

'Nirodha' has to be explained here, because of the stigma attached
to the word 'Nirodha' in post-Independent India.  Nirodha means
'avoiding'.  Here it refers to Savikalpa Samadhi, wherefrom the
practiser may get back to vikalpa or activities, after some time.
This is what I believe, Sri Ramakrishna had.  Nirvikalpa Samadhi is
one from which, the practiser does not come back.  What Bhagavan
was in  'Sahaja Samadhi', where the Self realized soul is staying always during its tenure in body, but without any 'vikalpa' outgoing
tendencies. Then the question arises, how then Bhagavan did all his 'work' for 54 years; the answer is that He did so by Pure Mind or Sannidaya. That is,  with the Power of the Presence!
Verse 127:- When such complete cessation of mental activity is
achieved, only the associationless Brahman remains in the Heart.
By ceaseless meditation on the Heart, based on the great Sayings.
arises the knowledge, I am Brahman. 

Verse 128:-  There is then, a perfect realization of Brahman as the
immutable, associationless, eternal, self-revealed, secondless Whole,
as indicated in the scripures.

Verse 129:-  The Amrtabindu and other Upanishads recommend
Yoga (here, Raja Yoga) for the same object.  It is clear therefore,
that meditation on the attributeless Brahman is superior to other
types of worship.

(Brahma or Amrtabindu Upanishad  7.9, 16-7)

Verse 130:-  Those who give up meditation on the attributeless
Brahman and undertake piligrimage, recitation of the holy formulae
and other methods, may be compared to those who drop the sweets
and lick the hand.

to be contd....

Arunachala Siva. 

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (41)
« on: August 21, 2008, 02:48:10 PM »
The Chapter VI continues....

Verse 114:- Therefore, as knowledge of the truth does not
affect the means, such as the mind and so forth, a man of
realization is able to do worldly activities, such as ruling a

Verse 115:-  (Doubt): He may not have any desire for worldly
affairs since he is convinced of the ureality of the empirical
world. (Reply):  Let it be.  Let him be engaged in meditation
or work according to his fructifying karma.

Verse 116:- On the other hand, a meditator should always
engage himself in meditation, for through meditation his
feeling of identity with Brahman arises, as a devotee has
it by meditating on Vishnu.

Verse 117:-  The feeling of identity, which is the effect
of meditation, ceases when the practice is given up.
But the true Brahmanhood does not vanish even in the
absence of knowledge.

Verse 118:-  The eternal Brahmanhood is revealed by
knowledge and not created by it, for even in the absence
of the revealer, the real entity does not cease to exist.

Verse 119:- (Doubt):-  But the Brahmanhood of a meditator
also is real.  (Reply): True, then, is not the Brahmanhood of
the ignorant and the lower creatures also real?

Verse 120:- Since nescience is common, they do not realize
the purpose of their life.  But just as begging is better than
starving, so also it is better to practise devotion and meditation,
on the attributeless Brahman is still better.

Verse 121:-  It is better to perform the works ordained in the
scriptures than be engrossed in worldly affairs.  Better than
this, is to worship a personal deity and meditation on the
attributless Brahman is still better.

Verse 122:-  That which is nearer to the realization of Brahman,
is superior.  And meditation on Brahman gradually becomes like
direct realization of Brahman.

to be contd....

Arunachala Siva.   

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (40)
« on: August 21, 2008, 02:30:33 PM »
The Chapter IX continues....

Verse 105:-  Thus, when for an illumined sage there is no
injuncion, no prohibition, where is his violating them? 
Only for his can violation be possible, who is bound by them.

Verse 106:-  As a child is not subject to any injunctions and
prohibitions, he cannot be charged with their violations.  In
their absence, in the case of a man of realization too, how can
there be any violation?

Verse 107:- (Doubt):  But a boy does not know anything.
(Reply): A knower of truth knows everything.  The law
applies only to one who knows a little, not to the other two!

Verse 108:- (Doubt):-  He is a knower of Truth, who can
bless or curse with effect.  (Reply): Not that, for these powers
result from the practise of austerities, not through self-realization.

Verse 109:- (Doubt): Vyasa and others had these powers.
(Reply): But these were produced by some austerities.  Austerities
meant for knowledge are different from them, that is those for

Verse 110:- Those who practise both the types of austerities
possess both powers and knowledge,. So, for each type of
practice will produce the result appropriate to it.

Verse 111:- (Doubt):  Ascetics and ritualists, despise the saintly
monk who has neither such powers nor follow the injunctions.
(Reply):   Their austerities and rituals are also dspised by the
votaries of worldly pleasures.

Verse 112:-  (Doubt):  Monks too find a pleasure in the
acquisition of alms, clothes and shelter.  (Reply):  Then,
what wonderful renunciation  they must have, being unable
to move as it were their dispassion!   

Verse 113:- (Doubt): It does not matter if the ritualists
observing the scriptural rules are abused by the ignorant.
(Reply):  It also does not matter  if a man of realization
is abused by the ritualists who identify themselves with the
body and so observe the rules.

to be contd....

Arunachala Siva.

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (39)
« on: August 21, 2008, 02:13:57 PM »
The Chapter IX continues....

Verse 97:-  Meditation is left to his will, for his relase has been
achieved through knowledge.  From knowledge alone, comes
release.  This, the scriptures announce with dream beats.

Verse 98:- (Doubt):  If a knower does not meditate, he would
be drawn to external affairs.  (Reply):  Let him happily engage
himself in them.  What is the objection for a knower to be
so engaged?

Verse 99:- (Doubt): This sort of reasoning is wrong, for there
the scriptures will be violated.  (Reply):  If so, what is right
reasoning please?  (Doubt):  Right reasoning is to follow the
injuctions and prohibitions of the scriptures. (Reply):  But they
do not apply to the enlightened.

Verse 100:-  All these injunctions and prohibitions are meant
for those who believe themselves to belong to a certain caste
or station and stage of life. 

Verse 101:-  The knower is convinced that castes, station etc.,
are creations of Maya and that they refer to the body and not
to the Self whose nature is Pure Consciousness.

Verse 102:- The clear sighted knower from whose heart all
attachment has vanished is a liberated soul whether he performs
or not, concentration or action.

Verse 103:-  He whose mind is free from all desires or former
impressions has nothing to gain from either action or inaction,
meditation (Samadhi) or repetitions of holy formulae.

Verse 104:-   The Self is associationless and everything other
than the Self is a display of the magic of Maya.  When a mind
has such a firm conviction, wherefrom will any desire or
impressions come in it?

to be contd...

Arunachala Siva.     

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (38)
« on: August 21, 2008, 01:23:41 PM »
The Chapter IX continues....

Verse 87:-  Similarly, a man who practises meditation, one pointedly,
indifferently performs his worldly affairs.  But a man who has
realized the truth, fulfils his worldly duties well, as they do not
come in conflict with his knowlege.

Verse 88:-  This world is illusory, Maya, and the Self is by nature
pure Consciousness.  How can such knowledge be opposed to
his worldly activities?

Verse 89:-  To perform activities, the world need not be thought
real nor the Self as insentient matter.  To do so the roight means
only are necessary.

Verse 90:-  These means are the mind, the speech, body and
external objects.  They do not disappear on enlightenment.
So why can't he engage himself in wordly affairs?

Verse 91:- If he controls and concentrates his mind, he is a
meditator and not a knower of truth.  To know a pot, the mind
need not be concentrated.

Verse 95:- Once the nature of the Self has been conclusively
determined, the knower can speak of it, think of it or meditate
on it at will. 

Arunachala Siva.           

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (37)
« on: August 21, 2008, 01:15:20 PM »
The Chapter IX continues....

Verse 79:-  A certain Brahmachari used to go for alms,
keeping his mind his identity with the vital within him.

Verse 80:-  Meditation depends on the will of a man whether
he is to do or not to do it in a different way.  On should therefore
always continue the thought current.

(Knowledge once arisen cannot be prevented but meditation
depends on the will of the meditator,  so it must be continued)

Verse 81:-  A student, diligent in reciting the Vedas, reads
or recites them even in his dreams through the force of habit.
Similarly, one who practises meditation, continues it even
in his dreams.

Verse 82:-  Giving up contrary thoughts, if a man ceaselessly
meditates, he meditates even in his dreams, becuase of the
deep impression.

Verse 83:-  There is no doubt that while experiencing the
results of his fructifying karma in a man, because of his
strong impressions, is able to meditate without intermssion,
just as a man attached to wordly objects always thinks of them.

Verse 84:-  A woman devoted to a paramour, though engaged
in household duties, will all the time be dwelling in mind on the
pleasures with him.

Verse 85:- While enjoying in mind the pleasures of the company
of her lover, her household duties though not much disturbed,
are managed indifferently.

Verse 86:-  The woman with attachment to a paramour cannot
fully do the work as a woman attached to her domestic duties
does, with enthusiasm.

to be contd.....

Aruncahala Siva.       

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (36)
« on: August 21, 2008, 12:57:57 PM »
The chapter IX continues....

Verse 70:-  (Doubt): Combining and thinking of these indications,
do not fit with meditation on the attributeless Brahman. (Reply);
Then, you doubt is directed to Vyasa himself, and not against
me alone!

Verse 71:- (Doubt):  As (Vyasa) has not asked for the inclusion
of the forms susch as of the sn with golden beard etc., meditation
on the attributeless Brahman is not contradicted by him.  (Reply):
Be satisfied with that.  We also do not ask for that.

(Chandogya Up. 1.6.6.)

Verse 72:-  (Doubt): Qualities are only indirect indications. They
cannot enter into the true nature of Brahman.  (Reply):  Let them
be so.  Meditate on Brahman thus indicated.

Verse 73:- (Doubt):  The Self is here indirectly indicated by
positive qualities like'bliss' etc.,  and by negative qualities like
'not gross' etc.,  One should meditate on the indivisible,
homogeneous Self as "That I am".

Verse 74:- (Doubt): What is the difference between the knowlege
and and meditation?  (Reply):  Listen, knowledge depends on the
object, whereas mediation depends on the will of the person

Verse 75:- By the practise of enquiry, the knowledge of Brahman
arises.  Then it cannot be prevented whether one likes it or not.
Such knowledge, by the mere fact of its arising, destroys all
the ideas of the reality of the world.

Verse 76:-  On acquiring knowledge the aspirant experiences
unbroken satisfaction and a feeling of having accomplished all
that was to be accomplished.  He becomes liberated in life and
awaits the wearing out of his fructifying karma.

Verse 77:-  On the other handm a believing man, putting his
faith in the teachings of his teacher and without practising
enquiry, should meditate on the object prescribed without
being distracted by other thoughts.

Verse 78:-  He should continue the practise of meditation
until he realizes himself to be identical with his object of
meditation and then continue this thought till death.

(Brahma Sutras 4.1.12)

to be contd....

Arunachala Siva.

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (35)
« on: August 21, 2008, 12:44:24 PM »
The Chaper IX continues...

Verse  61:-  (Doubt): But Brahman as an object of knowledge
is unreal.  (Reply): Why not as an object of meditation too?
(Doubt): Covering and apprehending by Vrittis is knowledge.
(Reply): Similarly, doing that is also meditation.

(Verse 7.90 says:  Meditation as the attributeless Brahman
is just as possible as indirect intellectual knowledge of Brahman.
Both have practical value.)

Verse 62:- (Doubt): Why are you so devoted to meditation on
the attributeless Brahman?  (Reply): Why are you so opposed
to it? Say that. As there are many Sruti texts prescribing meditation
on the attributeless Brahman, it is not proer to say that there is
no authority for it.

Verse 63:- Meditatation on the attributeless Brahman has been
prescribed in the Nrsimha Uttara Tapaniya Upanishad, Prasna
Upanishad, Katha Upanishad Maandukya Upanishad and other

Verse 64:- This method of meditation of the attributeless Brahman
has been in the Panchikarana Vartika by Suresvara. (Doubt): This
meditation is the means of indirect knowledge of Brahman (but
not of liberation. (Reply): We do not say that it is not so.

Verse 65:- (Doubt):  But most of the people do not practise this
type of meditation. (Reply): Let them not do.  How can the meditation
be blamed for the shortcomings of the meditator?

Verse 66:- People of spritually dull intellect repeat sacred
formulae to acuqire power over others, finding it more
immediately fruitful than meditation on Brahman, with
attributes.  There are people more dull witted who concentrate
only on agriculture.

Verse 67:- Let the dull witted do what they like!  Here we speak
of meditation on the Absolute.  Since it is one of Vidya or Upasana,
all the qualifications of Brahman described in the various branches
of the Veda must be gathered for meditation.

Verse 68:-  The positive qualities of bliss etc., are all to be
coordinated into meditation, on Brahman.  This has been told
by Vyasa in the "Anandaaya....' Sutra.

(Brahma Sutras 3.3.11)

Verse 69:-  Similarly Vyasa speaks of all the negative indications
of Brahman such as 'not gross' in the 'Akshardhiyaam....' Sutra.

(Brahma Sutras 3.3.33)

to be contd.....

Arunachala Siva.   

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (34)
« on: August 21, 2008, 12:27:05 PM »
The Chapter IX continues...

Verse 53:-  In some cases, the enquiry itself is impeded because,
of the result of their inner evil deeds as the Sruti says: Even
to hear about Him, it is not advisable to many. (Katha Up. 1.2.7)

Verse 54:- If a man cnnot practise enquiry, either due to extreme
dullness of intellect or for want of other favourable circumstances,
let him always keep the mind on Brahman.

Verse 55:- As it is possible to continue the thought-curren
regarding Brahman with attributes, meditation on the
attributeless Brahman is also not possible. 

(Upasana, meditation or worhsip is the prcoess of keeping
the mind in the thought of the object worhsipped.  As a result
the mind takes the form of the object.)

Verse 56:- (Doubt):  Brahman is beyond speech and mind and
so cannot be meditated upon.  (Reply): Then there can be
no knowledge of Brahman too!

Verse 57:-(Doubt):  Brahman is known as beyond speech and
mind. (Reply): Then, why cannot Brahman meditated upon as
beyond speech and mind?

(Meditation as "I am Brahman, who is beyond speech and mind"
is alright for Brahman is self-evident)

Verse 58:- (Doubt):  If Brahman can be meditated upon, He
becomes invested with attributes. (Reply): That happens if
He is taken as knowable. (Doubt): Brahman is knowable by
'lakshana', indirect indication.  (Reply): Then meditate upon
Brahman that way, that is, by 'lakshana'.

Verse 59:- (Doubt):  The Sruti saying: "Know that alone to be
Brahman, which is beyond the range of speech, and mind and
not that which the people worship, prohibits meditation on
Brahman."  (Kena Up. 1.5)

Verse 60:- (Reply): Equally, Brahman cannot be an object of
knowledge, for the Sruti says: "Brahman is other than that
which has been known." (Doubt): The Sruti also says that
Brahman can nover be known. (Reply): So also, it says that
He can be meditated upon.  So meditate on Him basing upon
these Vedic texts.       

(Kena Up. 1.4
Amrtabindu Up. 6; Katha Up. 1.3.12; Brahadaranyaka Up.4.4.31
Panchadasi 7.86-87)

to be contd...

Arunachala Siva.   

Dear Raju,  For people who are not having enought determination
to do Self Enquiry, Bhagavan suggested Surrender, the total
surrender, like the King who was about to place his right foot
on the right stirrup of the horse, and but asked to wait by
the Guru for next command!

Arunachala Siva.

Dear Raju, self enquiry is doing.  Being the Self is being.  As
Bhagavan said:  Be still and your are the Self.

Arunachala Siva.

My dear 'srkuadi',  Your Ashtavakra Samhita posts are excellent.
Please continue.  I am trying to pick up my Sri Ramakrishna Math,
book, and read concurrently the passages in the same evening.
Thank you.  Your story of Ashtavakra's curse is known to be but I have forgotten it. Forgetfulness is a sin.  I am happy.

Arunachala Siva.

General topics / Re: Meditation
« on: August 21, 2008, 11:50:58 AM »
Dear srkudai,  The answers for the states of meditation are slowly
coming!  Good!

Bhagavan mentions three types of meditation in Upadesa Saram,

With words audible outside,  the mantra japa,
With words within, no audible, the silent  mantra japa
No words, only a 'bhavana',  I am Siva, I am Siva   or I am Brahman
I am Brahman.

The first two  are 'thinking medittion'.  The third one, is non-
thinking'.  Bhagavan uses the word 'unnuthal' in Tamil Upadesa
Undiyar (Upadesa Saram).   Unnuthal means a bhavana.  It is
continuous like flow of oil, thyla dhara.

So meditation can be thoughtful or thoughtless.  But in the
third, there is bhavana - mental conviction.   So all are dual
and not nondual.

Arunachala Siva.   

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Re: Panchadasi - (32)
« on: August 21, 2008, 11:41:11 AM »
Dear Raju, Yes, faith and perseverance are the key words.
Shirdi Sai Baba also mentioned two key words:  Sraddha and Saburi.
Both Sai Baba and Bhagavan have always said:-

"Leaving all your cleverness, come unto Me.  I shall remove
the shackles of your mind."

Arunachala Siva.

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Re: Panchadasi - (31)
« on: August 21, 2008, 11:38:50 AM »
Dear Raju, Yes,  Bhagavan made it easy for the 20th and
other future centuries, without pedantics and semantics,
without verbiage.  That is why, it is Brahmasthra!

Arunachala Siva.