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Messages - Subramanian.R

46891
General Discussion / Re: Self-conscious being-Thought
« on: August 21, 2008, 05:31:41 PM »
Dear srkudai,  Yesterday, I mentioned "thoughtless state is
self realization" and you had a different view.

Again,  I am quoting from Who am I?  Please read this, and
tell me, whether 'thoughtless state is self realization".

Under Question 16, Bhagavan says:  The Self is that where there
is absolutely no "I" thought.  This is called, 'Silence'.  The Self
itself is the world, the Self itself is "I".  The Self itself is God.
All is Siva, the Self.

(Here Bhagavan mentioned "I" thought, because "I" thought
is the root of all thoughts).

Again under Question 25, Bhagavan says:  "Remaining quiet is
what is called Wisdom-insight.  To remain quiet is to resolve the
mind in the Self......"

Arunachala Siva.   

46892
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Re: Panchadasi - (28)
« on: August 21, 2008, 05:23:06 PM »
Dear srkudai, since you showed a special liking for this chapter
on meditation, I took it up after Chitra deepa and Trupti Deepa.

Arunachala Siva.

46893
General topics / Re: Spiritual being-Human being
« on: August 21, 2008, 05:19:40 PM »
Dear Raju,  Yesterday, in a post under this Topic, I referred
to Cow Lakshmi as reincarnation of Echammal and this is
not correct.  Cow Lakshmi, as Bhagavan Himself has confirmed
was a reincarnation of Keerai Patti (the Grandma of the greens).
Again, as you have correctly said, Bhagavan was not with Cow
Lakshmi, till her very end, becuase, unlike Mother Azhagamma,
she did not have any gushing vasanas, towards the last few
minutes or hours and so Bhagavan left her to merge in the Self,
peacefully, without any last minute help.

Arunachala Siva.   

46894
General topics / Re: Meditation
« on: August 21, 2008, 04:46:51 PM »
Dear srkudai,  I shall, Bhagavan willing try to do it, after
completing Panchadasi, which is a massive work.  For Upadesa
Saram, I shall follow Osborne's translation, after consulting
Sri Sadhu Om's and Smt Kanakammal's Tamil commentary.  I want
to get the first  book, when I go to T.malai , coming Monday.  My wife
has already said that I should restrict my book purchases to less than
Rs 1000.00.  I have got  Bhagavan with me to select the best ones.


Arunachala Siva.

46895
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Re: Panchadasi - (45)
« on: August 21, 2008, 04:39:41 PM »
Dear non duel,  Thanks.  I do not much about filing and arranging
through webmaster.  One can follow the traditional method of
printing and filing, till one comes to know about the advanced
variation.  As for posting, I do it in the morning, till I get my
back ache, stop and proceed after lunch.  I would like srkudai
to do the same for Ashtavakra Samhita, that is serial writing,
but not with suffering intermittent back aches!

Arunachala Siva.
 

46896
Dear Raju, your post, giving additional insights is really adding
ghee to the rice.

ArunachalaSiva.

46897
Dear srkudai, I agree with you.  Forgetting unimportant things,
like what I ate for breakfast last Thursday, is a gift.  As regards,
the two methods, I believe Bhagavan stressed on the monkey method,
that we should hold on to Guru with our efforts.  Bhagavan says:
" God and the Guru will only show the way to release.  They will
not by themselves take the soul to the state of release.  In truth,
God and the Guru are not different.  Just as the prey which has
fallen into the jaws of a tiger has no escape, so those who
have come within the ambit of the Guru's gracious look will
be saved by the Guru and will not get lost.  Yet, EACH ONE
SHOULD,  BY HIS OWN EFFORT PURSUE THE PATH SHOWN BY
GOD OR THE GURU AND GAIN RELEASE, AND NOT WITH
SOMEBODY ELSE'S.  Does he, who is Rama, require the help of
a mirro to know that he is Rama?"  (Who am I? 1902)

Perhaps, Guru's Grace, may be interpreted as a mother cat's
lifing of the baby-cat through its jaws.   But eventually we have
to be monkeys to win the game.

Arunachala Siva.     

46898
Dear Raju, Non duel has answered your point further.  I have
the same view.

Arunachala Siva.

46899
Dear non duel,  Absolutely correct.  Surrender is not an easy
joke.  We are all doing partial surrenders.  Total surrender is
as difficult as self-enquiry, but it opens the gateway to the Self.
By surrender, Bhagavan always meant - Surrender of the individual
soul - Atma Samarpana.  Surrender is the mother of self enquiry,
as devotion is mother of knowledge.  It is because of the Surrender,
the Grace of Guru flows or we become a fit vessel to the everflowing
Grace of Guru.

Arunachala Siva. 

46900
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (47)
« on: August 21, 2008, 04:16:50 PM »
The Chapter IX continues....

Verse 155:-  Even if there is no realization, think, " I am Brahman"
Through  meditation, a man achieves even other things (like
the deities), then,  why not Brahman who is ever achieved?

Verse 156:-  If a man, who is convinced by the experience that
meditation, practised day by day, destroys the idea that the
non-Self is the Self, nevertheless becomes idle and neglects
meditation, what difference, tell us, is there between him and
a brute?

Verse 157:-  Destroying his idea that the body is the Self, through
meditation a manb sees the secondless Self, becomes immortal
and realizes Brahman in this body itself.

Verse 158:-  The meditator who studies this Chapter called
Dhyana Deepa or the Lamp of Meditation, is freed from all
his doubts and meditates constantly on Brahman.

concluded.

Dear every one, I have completed only three of the fifteen
chapters, viz., Chapters VI, VII and IX.   There are a few chapters,
like to I to IV, which are preliminary about five sheaths, five elements
etc., etc.,  I propose to post only select verses from them, so that
we can cover other important chapters more elaborately.


Arunachala Siva.     

46901
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (45)
« on: August 21, 2008, 04:06:25 PM »
The Chapter IX continues....

Verse 148:-  Pippalada being asked by his disciple Satyakama,
says that AUM means Brahman both with and without attributes.

(Prasna Up. 5.2)

Verse 149:- Yama too questioned by his pupil Nachiketas,
replied that he who meditates on AUM knowing it as the
attributeless Brahman, obtains the fulfilment of his desires.

(Katha Up. 1.2.16-17)

Verse 150:- He too meditated properly on the attributeless
Brahman gets direct knowledge of Brahman either in this life
or at the time of death, or in the world of Brahma.

Verse 151:- The Atma Gita* also clearly says that those who
cannot practise discrimination should always meditate on the Self.

(* A work by Vidyatirtha or Sankarananda, the Pontiff of
Sringeri Sankara Math, during the times before the author.)

Verse 152:-  The Self says:  Even if diecdt knowledge of Me
does not seem to be possible, a man should still meditate on
the Self.  In the course of time, he realizes Me and is freed.

Verse 153:-  "To reach treasures deeply hidden in the earth,
there is nothing for it but to dig.  So, to have direct knowledge
of Me, the Self, there is no other means than meditation on
one's Self.

(Viveka Choodamani v. 65)


Verse 154:-  " A man should remove the stones of body consciousness
from the field of the mind, and then by repeatedly digging with the
pick axe of (intellect) self enquiry , he can get the hidden treasure
of the Self.

to be contd....

Arunachala Siva.

46902
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (44)
« on: August 21, 2008, 03:54:16 PM »
The Chapter IX continues....

Verse 141:- A meditator becomes Brahman who is 'unattached,
desireless, from body and organs and fearless'.  Thus the
Nrsimha Uttara Tapaniya Upanishad speaks of liberaion as
the result of meditation on the attributeless Brahman.

Verse 142:-  By the strength of meditation on the attributelss
Brahman, knowledge arises.  So the scriptural verse, "Verily
there is no other path  to liberation, except knowledge" does not
conflict with this.

Verse 143:-  So the Nrsimha Uttara Tapaniya Upanishad points
out that liberation comes from desireless meditation.  The
Prasna Upanishad  also says that by meditation with desire
one enters into the region of Brahma.

Verse 144:-  The Prasna Upanishad  says that he who meditates
with desires  on the three lettered AUM, is taken to the region
of Brahma.  There he comes to know the attributeless Brahman,
who is beyond Hiranyagarbha, the sum of total of souls and
becomes free.  (Prasna Up. 5.5)

Verse 145:-  The Brahma Sutras in the Apratikadhi karana, say
that he who desires the region of Brahma and meditates with
desires on the attributeless Brahman attains that region.

(Brahma Sutras 4.3.15)

Verse 146:-  Such a worshipper, by virtue of his meditation
on the attributeless Brahman, enters the wrold of Brahma,
and there obtains direct knowledge of Brahman.  He is not
born again, he gets release at the end of the four yugas.
(Yuga - eon - a long period of millions of years.  Hindus
believe that the dissolution will take place after four such eons)

Verse 147:- In the Vedas, meditation on the holy syllable AUM
in most places means meditation on the attributeless Brahman,
though, in some places, it denotes meditation on Brahman,
with attributes.

To be contd...

Arunachala Siva.   

46903
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (43)
« on: August 21, 2008, 03:40:53 PM »
The Chapter IX continues....

Verse 132:- Those who are very fickleminded and agitated do not
have the knowledge of Brahman, through practice of enquiry.
Therefore, control of mind is the chief means for them.  By it their
mind becomes free from distractions.

Verse 133:-  For those whose intellects are no longer distracted
nor restless  but are merely covered by a veil of ignorance,
the analytical system called Sankhya (intellectual enquiry)
is practised.  It will quickly lead them to spiritual illumination.

Verse 134:- The state of spiritual balance is obtainable by
both Sankhyas and Yogis (those who practise meditation).
He really knows the meaning of the scriptures who knows
that the paths of enquiry and meditation are the same.

Verse  136:- If one fails to perfect the practise of meditation
in this life, one does so either at the time of death or in  the
region of Brahma.  Then, obtaining direct knowledge of the
Reality, one is liberated.

Verse 138:- So the future life of a man is determined by the
nature of his thoughts at the time death.  Then, as a devotee
of the Personal God is absorbed in Him, so a meditator on the
attributeless Brahman is absorbed in It and obtains Liberation.

(Bhagavad Gita 8.6)

Verse 139:-  Brahman is called 'eternal' and 'attributelss'
but in fact It is of the nature of the Liberation itself, just
as a 'leading error'  is an error in name only, for it leads
to the desired object.

Verse 140:-  As by meditation on the Personal God, knowledge
of the Isvara arises, so by meditation on the attributeless Brahman,
knowledge of Its nature arises and destroys ignorance which is   
at the root of rebirth.

to be contd....

Arunachala Siva.

46904
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (42)
« on: August 21, 2008, 03:26:12 PM »
The Chapter IX continues....

Verse 123:- A 'leading error' leads to the desired goal, when
it becomes knowledge.  Similarly, meditation on Brahman,
when ripened leads to release and becomes real knowledge.

Verse 124:- (Doubt): A man working prompted by a 'leading
error' gets correct knowledge, not by the 'leading error' but
by another evidence.  (Reply):  The meditation on the Brahman,
may also be taken as the cause of other evidence like Nidhidhyasana,
leading to direct realization.

Verse 125:-  (Doubt): Meditation on the form of a deity and
repetition of a sacred formulae also lead to the goal. (Reply):
Let it be so.  But the speciality of meditation on the Brahman
is that it is the nearest to the goal of Self-realization.

Verse 126:-  When meditation on the attributeless Brahman
is mature it leads to Samddhi.  This state of intense concentration
at ease leads on to the Nirodha state in which the distinction
btween subject and object is eliminated.

'Nirodha' has to be explained here, because of the stigma attached
to the word 'Nirodha' in post-Independent India.  Nirodha means
'avoiding'.  Here it refers to Savikalpa Samadhi, wherefrom the
practiser may get back to vikalpa or activities, after some time.
This is what I believe, Sri Ramakrishna had.  Nirvikalpa Samadhi is
one from which, the practiser does not come back.  What Bhagavan
was in  'Sahaja Samadhi', where the Self realized soul is staying always during its tenure in body, but without any 'vikalpa' outgoing
tendencies. Then the question arises, how then Bhagavan did all his 'work' for 54 years; the answer is that He did so by Pure Mind or Sannidaya. That is,  with the Power of the Presence!
 
Verse 127:- When such complete cessation of mental activity is
achieved, only the associationless Brahman remains in the Heart.
By ceaseless meditation on the Heart, based on the great Sayings.
arises the knowledge, I am Brahman. 

Verse 128:-  There is then, a perfect realization of Brahman as the
immutable, associationless, eternal, self-revealed, secondless Whole,
as indicated in the scripures.

Verse 129:-  The Amrtabindu and other Upanishads recommend
Yoga (here, Raja Yoga) for the same object.  It is clear therefore,
that meditation on the attributeless Brahman is superior to other
types of worship.

(Brahma or Amrtabindu Upanishad  7.9, 16-7)

Verse 130:-  Those who give up meditation on the attributeless
Brahman and undertake piligrimage, recitation of the holy formulae
and other methods, may be compared to those who drop the sweets
and lick the hand.

to be contd....

Arunachala Siva. 
 

46905
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (41)
« on: August 21, 2008, 02:48:10 PM »
The Chapter VI continues....

Verse 114:- Therefore, as knowledge of the truth does not
affect the means, such as the mind and so forth, a man of
realization is able to do worldly activities, such as ruling a
country. 

Verse 115:-  (Doubt): He may not have any desire for worldly
affairs since he is convinced of the ureality of the empirical
world. (Reply):  Let it be.  Let him be engaged in meditation
or work according to his fructifying karma.

Verse 116:- On the other hand, a meditator should always
engage himself in meditation, for through meditation his
feeling of identity with Brahman arises, as a devotee has
it by meditating on Vishnu.

Verse 117:-  The feeling of identity, which is the effect
of meditation, ceases when the practice is given up.
But the true Brahmanhood does not vanish even in the
absence of knowledge.

Verse 118:-  The eternal Brahmanhood is revealed by
knowledge and not created by it, for even in the absence
of the revealer, the real entity does not cease to exist.

Verse 119:- (Doubt):-  But the Brahmanhood of a meditator
also is real.  (Reply): True, then, is not the Brahmanhood of
the ignorant and the lower creatures also real?

Verse 120:- Since nescience is common, they do not realize
the purpose of their life.  But just as begging is better than
starving, so also it is better to practise devotion and meditation,
on the attributeless Brahman is still better.

Verse 121:-  It is better to perform the works ordained in the
scriptures than be engrossed in worldly affairs.  Better than
this, is to worship a personal deity and meditation on the
attributless Brahman is still better.

Verse 122:-  That which is nearer to the realization of Brahman,
is superior.  And meditation on Brahman gradually becomes like
direct realization of Brahman.

to be contd....

Arunachala Siva.