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Messages - Subramanian.R

Dear srkudai,

What I was stressing is the same idea of conditioning of the mind.
Desiring and deliberate non-desiring or abhorring, as in the case
of tobacco chewing, are both responses of conditoning of mind or
a conditoned mind.  Bhagavan said the same thing in the case of
onions for His mother.  Wanting onions or deliberately avoiding onions
are both conditions of mind.  Onions per se or tobacco per see will
not come in the way of Self realization or self enquiry.  There were
several Siddhas who were consuming ganja in the Hills.  Bhagavan
Himself was offered the same in a few times.  What Bhagavan Ramana
said about the ganja was that it will spoil the mind further in case one
is full of bad thoughts in his mind.  If one's mind is having good thoughts
about the need for liberation and efforts towards it, that would help him in
his path.  I am not saying that tobacco or betel nuts are in the same
footing.  I was answering only from the point of deliberate avoiding,
because that would remain as unfulfilled desire in the mind and spring
up much more forcefully at a latter state.  Like Jadabharatha loving
a deer towards the end of his life.  One should allow the prarabdha
to run its course.  Again one cannot lust a neighbour's wife saying
that this is his prarabdha.  In that case, the society would intervene
for the social justice.

A similar incident in Mother Azhagamma's life.  She wanted greens from
the Hills and asked Akhilandamma to bring some. When the lady brought
this, she was afraid of Bhagavan Ramana and so she sent them through
Ramanatha Brahmachari.  When Ramanatha brought them, it was
observed by Bhagavan Ramana, who told Azhagamma that if she
wanted such things she could as well go back to Madurai.  Here the
case is one of deliberate wanting, creating difficulties for others.
So was also the papad-batter which Mother broght from downtown
Tiruvannamalai, to make papads.  Bhagavan chided her jocularly.
These, onions, greens and papads decribed, are the cases of the non-deliberate and deliberate conditionings of mind.  If onions were not there
in the Cave, Bhagavan would not have asked someone to deliberately
bring them and made samabhar!  Because they were there, and they
per se, do not come in the way of self enquiry, He did not prohibit them.

Arunachala Siva.   

Dear srkudai,  My case is different.  I am the one who believes that
such external controls upon me, will not give any special benefits
to me.  These simple desires, so long, as they are within the societal
ambits, (because we are living in a society and not in a jungle), need
not be suppressed.  I chew pan-parag, ghutka variety.  I am not
harming anyone with this practise. So it is okay so long as I do not
exceed the limitations on this bad habit.  Again smoking, drinking etc.,
If one drinks liquor excessively and molest a woman on the road
or hit his vehicle upon a pedestrian, then he crosses the societal
limits.  That is harmful for him and the society. Then, should these
habits to be dropped?  It depends upon one's prarabdha.  It is not
a blockade to self enquiry.  But showing anger upon others, cheating
others, harming others, these do create problems right from the first
step.  There could be different views.

Arunachala Siva.       

Arunachala / Re: girivalam
« on: October 14, 2008, 10:43:15 AM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

There are said to be three roads for Arunachala Giripradakshina.
One is the inner most road, in jungles, skirting the Hills.  Nobody
tries this.  The middle road is on the foothills, where only one can
walk and others have to be follow him.  Two or three cannot walk,
hand in hand.  The third one is the outermost road, which is asphalted
for cars and other vehicles can go.  Here only, most of the devotees
walk.  The road is broad.  This is about 14 kms in cicrumference.
Here is where, you can come across the eight lingams and small
temples for them.

Arunachala Siva.

General Discussion / Re: SILENCE IS THE SELF
« on: October 13, 2008, 07:09:49 PM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

Mounam or Silence is not merely abstaining from mouthing of words.\
In silence, mind works out so many thoughts.  True Silence is a
thoughtlessness.  When the words and thoughts cease their work,
naturally, the deeds also will not take place.  In Kanchipuram, Sri
Chandrasekara Saraswati used to observe kashta mounam, where
even swallowing the saliva will not be there, since swallowing of
saliva will also make a noise. 

Bhagavan Ramana's mounam was speechless, thoughtless and
actionless. That is the state, by practising which, one can attain
the self.  Bhagavan also said that the mounam is an uninturrupted
speech, in the sense that at that stage the individual souls talks
for ever with the Self.

Arunachala Siva.

General topics / Re: jnani and brahma jnani
« on: October 13, 2008, 02:17:56 PM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

Regarding, pancha prana, it means five airs, prana, apana etc.,
It is mentioned in Who am I?

Regarding a Self-conscious janani leaving his prana in sleep...
I do not know the answer.

Regarding, arivu and perarivu, the first denotes the empirical knowledge
of worldly mattes including scriptural knowledge.  But the second,
is Brahman.

Self is without body, coceptually speaking.  It is only existence, knowledge and bliss.  But since, Self is everything and there is nothing beyond it,
it should include body too.

Arunachala Siva.     

General topics / Re: what is good karma
« on: October 13, 2008, 12:29:44 PM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

There are a couple of things.  Vichara is not difficult.  It becomes
difficult because we have no purity of mind, Chitta suddhi.  This
can be done only by karmas?  Who said that you have to leave the
karmas?  No.  You have to do karmas, but see that these are not
harmful to others.  A good karma is one when it is also good if it
is done to you by others.  You are having acute head ache.  Some
one in the office gives you a tablet and a cup of coffee.  This helps
you to get rid of the pain.  So helping others in times of need is a
good karma.  So, you have also to do the same thing, when someone
else suffers.  Bhagavan Ramana has said:  "If one gives to others,
he is giving it to himself?  If one knows this, who will not do but
give?"  (Who am I?).  I used to contemplate on this sentence for
a long time.  It is truth!  If one gives good to others, he is giving good
to himself.  If one is giving bad to others, he is giving bad to himself.
So all karmas can be good, if those karmas satisfy this yardstick.

Arunachala Siva.       

Dear Ramanaduli,  When the mind is vanquished, there is only
Matter.  Matter is ever blissful.  No pain, no suffering, no misery,
no happiness. It just IS.

Arunachala Siva.

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Re: Panchadasi - (169)
« on: October 12, 2008, 11:19:29 AM »
Dear Ramanaduli,  Such kings like Manu Needhi Chozhan and
Sibhi Chakrvarti had exhibited excellent conducts and justice.
They might or might not have been Brahma Jnanis.  But they
were ready for Brahma Jnana, with their chitta-suddhi.

Arunachala Siva.

General topics / Re: Swayambhu linga on Bhagawan's body
« on: October 12, 2008, 11:15:33 AM »
Dear Dr. Raju, Yes. Only a Brahma-Jnani can utter words like that.
Similarly when leeches were placed on the wound, to suck the
bad blood, oneday someone forgot to remove them and they were
going on sucking blood and were lying silent on the wound.  Bhagavan
said:  The leeches have attained Samadhi!

Arunachala Siva.

General topics / Re: Moksha to Bhagawan
« on: October 12, 2008, 11:11:18 AM »
Dear Dr. Raju,  There is a simlar story.  Once a visitor pestered
Bhagavan, by repeating:  Give me power to realize like Ramakrishna
gave to Vivekananda.  Bhagavan said after a while:  All right.
I shall give you.  But, are have prepared yourself like Vivekananda.
Tell me.  The visitor thought for a while and left quietly!  Again,
one Western lady came to Bhagavan in  a hurry, and exclaimed
"Bhagavan, give me salvation, give me salvation!"  Bhagavan,
as usual, kept quiet.  After a while, the lady repeated:  Give
me salvation, I have to catch a train now!"  Bhagavan did not
say anything and she left.  After that, Bhagavan said:  "She is
thinking that she can get salvation, as she purchases some grocery,
in the stores!"

Arunachala Siva.

General topics / Re: Akarma(nondoership)
« on: October 12, 2008, 11:04:29 AM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

The ignorance is alone is the villain of the peace.  Ignorance or
ajnana is one which makes us to have desires for worldly things,
do things with ego and get feelings like pain and pleasure, happiness
and misery, good and bad.  Ignorance is like darkness and the
mere presence of Knowledge removes the darkness.  The
sun or lamp should be "merely" present and it does not eradicate
the darkenss; the darkness merely disappears.

Arunachala Siva. 

General Discussion / Re: SILENCE IS THE SELF
« on: October 12, 2008, 10:56:03 AM »
Dear Sankar, Yes.  Silence is where nothing else appears.  Silence
is where there are no attachments, because in non-attachment,
nothing appears.  (Who am I?)

Arunachala Siva.

General Discussion / Re: Vichara and bodily diseases
« on: October 12, 2008, 10:53:04 AM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

As Dr. Raju said the mind-body comlplex will not be felt after
self realization.  It will be away from him, as a skin which has
been shed by the snake.  He will be, all the time, in Brahman
and the body is appearing only from the point of view of onlookers.
He will say, "No mind, I am the Self."  He will be like a mirror,
reflecting emotions for others, as per their emotions.

Arunachala Siva.   

General topics / Re: Akarma(nondoership)
« on: October 11, 2008, 07:13:39 PM »
On the subject of non-doership, I shall give a quote from Annamalai
Swami -Final Talks:

Once a questioner asked:

The desire to become absorbed in the Self, seems to be some kind
of vasana.  It is still a desire, and to indulge in it implies that I must
look for something I do not already have.  With this attitude, I then
feel that I am setting up enlghtenment as some kind of a future goal,
and not something that is here and now.  There is something very
dualistic in this attitude, and I sometimes get the feeling that I am
not accepting Bhagavan's will for the present moment if I am looking
for something that is not here and now.

Annamalai Swami:

This desire is not counter productive.  The desire for enlightenment
is necessary because without it, you live never the necessary steps
to realize the Self.  A desire to walk to a particular place is necessary
before, you take any steps.  If that desire is not present, you will
never take up the first step.  When you realize the Self, that desire
will go.

Here again, it is only "the desire for enlightenment" that is, the process,
and not the Self, which is the goal.  I still feel that Bhagavan had
mentioned anything directly like the desire for the Self.

Arunachala Siva.

Dear Ramanaduli,

Bhagavan Ramana said:  Simply you ask, "Who am I?" and then
go to the source of mind.  There are several ways, under Bhakti
Marga, Yoga Marga and Karma Marga.  The Jnana Marga, merely
says, You contemplate on Guru's teachings and find out who you are
and You are That.

Arunachala Siva.