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Messages - Subramanian.R

Tiru Jnana Sambandhar one of the four major Saiva saints among
the 63 saints, has always considered Arunachala as his father,
as Bhagavan Ramana had considered.  To Jnana Sambandha,
Arunachala was ever at his help, in times of need and worldly
obstacles and difficulties.  Bhagavan Ramana also told that
Jnana Sambandha was Siva Kumara, an avatara of Skanda.

Once he had to debate with Jainas in Madurai and the queen
of Pandya Kingdom, who was herself a Siva devotee, was afraid
that the Jainas might harm him with their tricks.

He sang a song to Mangayarkarasi, the queen, which reads
like this:

O Mother, the consort of Pandya King, a lady with deer like eyes,
Do not consider me a small boy* who has got milk at his mouth!**
And pity me for my being alone, Annamalai, the Primordial Father,
Who dwells in many temples, He shall take care of the obstacles,
That come to me and other helpless people,  He always stands
   in Tiru Alavay* as a great treasure!

*  Jnana Sambandha was only 7 years old, when he went to Madurai.
** The milk oozing from the mouth, denotes that he was given
     breast milk by his mother Uma in Sirkazhi, when he was 3 years old.
***  Tiru Alavay is the classical name for Madurai, the capital
     of Pandya Kingdom.  The god and goddess are Sundaresvara and

(Source: Story: Devaraja Mudaliar's Thaayum Niyee, Thanthaiyum
   Niyee.  Sri Ramansramam, Tamil.  The song from Tevaram,
   Tamil, Saiva Siddhanta Book Publishing House, Chennai.) 

Arunachala Siva.   

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Saint Poet Tayumanavar
« on: November 07, 2008, 01:33:23 PM »
Saint Poet Tayumanavar has sung a good number of songs on his
Siva experience.  One such song is from a composition called
Ahara Bhuvanam - Chidambara Rahasyam, in his collected works
in Tamil.  Bhagavan Ramana once sang this verse in the Old Hall,
and shed tears, with profuse emotions that choked His words, and
He placed the book back without continuing the song.

The verse 24 of Ahara Bhuvanam, Chidambara Rahasyam reads
like this:

"Starting from the earth and ending with the Space, I took all
 the elements, made them into paper and wrote your Effulgence,
I called you as my Prana Natha, You came round and round of me,
And took hold of me, and ruled over me, without knowing you,
I cried with choked words and shed tears, and wounded my mind,
And then my mind dissolved like a snow piece and I forgot me,
  and lost me, I stood steady as You."

Tayumanavar was a Siva-Advaiti, like Manikkavachagar.

His writing on the five elements about the Effulgence of Siva,
reminds me the Bible line:

"If I were to write his (Jesus Christ) glory, such books written,
will be more than what this earth could hold!"

Arunachala Siva.

General Discussion / Re: imprtance of Sat sangha
« on: November 07, 2008, 01:21:31 PM »
Dear srkudai and Dr. Raju,

The second comes first.  I am benefited more by visiting Tiruvannamalai
and I have not visited many places in the recent past, excepting two
visits to Tiruvannamalai.

Dear srkudai,

This gives rise to a question:  Why then Ramana, after self realization
in Madurai house, went to Tiruvannamalai? 

He could have continued to remain in the Self, in Tiruchuzhi or
Madurai.  If the 'family' was a reason, then a bigger 'family' came
to Him in Tiruvannamalai.

If it is for non-distrubance from others, thousands of devotees came
to Him and 'disturbed' Him in Tiruvannamalai.

If it is for 'preaching', first of all, He did not like to 'preach' anything
to anyone.  Even assuming, He wanted to 'preach' something to someone,
He could have done it in Tiruchuzhi or Tiruvannamalai.

If it is for anyone reason, it is because He felt that there is some
power in Arunachala and it would be conducive for His remaining
life in His body.

Arunachala Siva.   

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Miracles do happen
« on: November 07, 2008, 11:36:20 AM »
The days of miracles are not yet over.  Miracles do happen. 
Several miracles which do happen even today, to the devotees
who have surrendered to Bhagavan Ramana, have been narrated
by T.R. Natarjan, in his book, "Continuing Miracles" published by
Sri Ramana Maharshi Centre for Learning, Bangalore.  Miracles did
happen during Bhagavan Ramana's days in His body in Tiruvannamalai
also.  On such miracles, Bhagavan Ramana did adopt one of the
following stances:

1. Miracles are done by Arunachala, the Siva.

2. He did not own up any miracles.

3. His Grace is ever flowing.

4. Each devotee should be a fit vessel  to take that Grace.

5. He does not know anything!

Devaraja Mudaliar quotes two such miracles, about which he knew
very well or he was the first hand witness to such events.  The
first is the case of Jagadeesvara Sastri, a Sanskrit scholar and a
great devotee of Bhagavan.  He became seriously ill and the doctors
had lost hope.  He came to Bhagafvan and chanted his Sanskrit
slokas where in he said:  "I cannot accept your theory that Prarabdha
must be experienced.  You should intervene and cancel my Prarabdha."
So saying, he stayed with Bhagavan Ramana without leaving the
Asram.  He was miraculously cured.  Another instance is that of
Ranga Iyer, a class mate of Bhagavan Ramana.  On being advised
by someone that his astrological indications foretell some serious periods, he chose to stay with Bhagavan Ramana,  after telling Him about that.
Bhagavan Ramana heard that and said, "All right, you stay with me."
He took care of him meticulously.  Even when Ranga Iyer had to go
to the town for some work or to the Railway Station to see off someone,  Bhagavan Ramana had told him not to remain outside for long and to
come to the Asram before nightfall.  Ranga Iyer did accordingly and
he took leave of Bhagavan Ramana only after that 'period' was over! 

(Source: Thayum Niyee, Thanthaiyum Niyee, Tamil, Devaraja Mudaliar,
Sri Ramansramam.)

Arunachala Siva. 

Bhagavan Ramana has always stressed that each seeker should
make his own effort and should not expect the God to lift him up
to Self realization.  The god and guru should protect the seekers
through their grace but shall not confer liberatton without any
efforts on the latter's part.  This is clear in Who am I? He advocated
only the path of baby monkeys, which hold tightly their mothers,
and not the path of kittens who expect the mother-cats to hold with a
bite and take them to places.

However many devotees have expressed their helplessness and
sought Bhagavan Ramana's intervention.  Bhagavan also said that
the Grace is flowing ever, but each one should bring a 'fit' vessel
to take it.  There are many instances of "miracles" of Bhagavan Ramana,
even though He assiduously disowned His authoriship, on such happenings, and this was mainly because He did not want His
devotees to be lazy without any efforts on their own part. Nevertheless, the Power of the Presence is always there.

One Ragahva Iyengar, who was a great Tamil scholar, and who was
also Diwan of former Travancore State, is a great Ramana devotee.
He has composed verse-appreciation for Murugnar's works like
Sri Ramana Sannidhi Murai.  This gentleman always felt that he was
helpless and Bhagavan Ramana should only hlep him.  When asked
about it, Bhagavan said:  "He has written like that....."  and did not
say further.

One poem of Raghava Iyengar reads like this-

Even if mother is there, and there is abundant milk in her breasts,
The child lying on the floor, is not able to reach her and have the
But the mother takes the child on her lap and breast feeds it.
You are here, and there is abundant Grace too with you,
I am not able to feed on the Grace, If you do not take pity on me,
And breast feed me, I shall go thin, and there will be a curse on you,
  O my Father!

(* The Poem starts calling Bhagavan Ramana as Mother and ends
with a call as Father!)

Sri Ramalinga Swamigal also sings like this:

When even a mother forgives the child's mistake and loves her,
Then have you not got the right to forgive the mistakes of this lowly
dog, O my Lord!

(Source:  Thaauyum Niyee, Thanthaiyum Niyee, Tamil. Devaraja
Mudaliar, Sri Ramansramam.  Translation of verses, my own.)

Arunachala Siva.     

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Being born in Tiruvarur
« on: November 07, 2008, 10:49:03 AM »
Once a devotee asked Bhagavan Ramana quoting a sloka:  It
is said that being born in Tiruvarur, seeing Chidambaram, dying in
Kasi, and remembering Arunachala-- one of all these alone will
confer Liberation, Mukti.  How is it?  How a mere birth or seeing,
or dying or remembering a place alone will confer Mukti?"

The sloka reads like this:

Jananat Kamalalaye, Kasyantu maranam, mukti,
Darsnanat Abhrasadasi, smaranad Arunachale.....

Bhagavan Ramana replied:

Yes. What is Jnananat Kamalalaye?*  Being born in the Heart!

(*Kamalalayam means Tiruvarur and also the Heart) 

What is Darsanad Abhrasadasi?*  Seeing the Seat of Consciousness! 

(* Abhrasadasi means seeing Seat of Nataraja in Chidamabram and also seeing the Seat.)

Kasyantu Maranam. What is it?  Kasi is the Light of Realiztion.
Dying in the light of realization is dying in Kasi!

Smaranad Arunachale. Remembering Arunachala, the Effulgence,
is to be assured of Liberation!

(Source: Talks, Munagala Venkatramaiah, Talk No. 473.
Sri Ramanasramam.)

Arunachala Siva. 

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Chanting God's Holy Names.
« on: November 07, 2008, 10:34:59 AM »
Some devotees asked Bhagavan Ramana, whether chanting God's
names, without one-pointedness and the mind thinking about various
things, is good or whether such chanting should be immediately
stopped and the mind quietened.

Bhagavan Ramana answered: "No problem.  Chanting god's
names continuously, even if the mind gets distracted in between,
is alright and marks will be given for that too."

On another occasion, Bhagavan Ramana has told a story.  When
some disciples were chanting God's names, even while passing
urine, the guru got angered and he shouted at them.  One of the
disciples then said, "What is there?  Is not Narayana in the urinal too?"

Devaraja Mudaliar has quoted a line from Murugnar's  Tiruchuzhi
Padigam, where the poet told Bhagavan: "Even if my mind forgets
you, my tongue will be telling your name!"

(Source:  The Recollections of Bhagavan Sri Ramana, Devaraja
Mudaliar, Tamil, Sri Ramansramam.)

Arunachala Siva.

Many devotees have asked Bhagavan Ramana, how a Jnani
would view the world?  Bhagavan Ramana has always given one
of the three answers given below:

1. How a Jnani would view the world, only a Jnani can tell this!

2. A Jnani would view the world as a dream.

3. A Jnani would view the world as Real, since, for him, there is
    nothing other than Brahman and Brahman is Real.

Once when Devaraja Mudaliar asked about this, Bhagavan Ramana
answered like this:

"Children go to see a film, and all of them view the film as real, the
scenes of comedy, fighting, singing of songs, finally union of the hero
and the heroine and happy ending.  Whereas the elders would also
equally enjoy the scenes of comedy, fighting, singing of songs, and
finally union of the hero with the heroine and the happy ending.  But
the elders would always remember that there is a Screen behind all
these happenings.  So is a Jnani."

(Source:  The Recollections of Bhagavan Sri Ramana, Sri Devaraja
Mudaliar, Tamil, Sri Ramansramam.  Translation my own.)

Arunachala Siva.     

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Jnani's Sublime State
« on: November 07, 2008, 10:20:28 AM »
Many devotees used to ask Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi,
whether a Brahma Jnani is as great as an avatara, or an whether
avatara, like Rama or Krishna is more sublime.

Bhagavan Ramana always answered and stressed that a Brahma
Jnani is in the most sublime state, and is greater than even avataras
like Rama and Krishna.

He used to quote a verse from Brahma Gita and Kurun Thirattu, a
Tamil treatise.

Brahma Gita verse reads like this:

Jnani is Isvara Himself and Liberation is in his place,
Those who serve a Jnani, have their heads in his feet,
Even Mahsevara is not equal to that sublime Jnani,
Even Hari cannot compare to his state,
And for that matter, no one can be compared to him.

Kurn Thirattu verse reads like this:

The god that swallowed the world, (Vishnu) will carry a Jnani
  over his head!
The god that swallowed the poison, (Siva), will go behind a Jnani,
   doing oddjobs and seeking the dust of his feet!

Even the great kings and devas will serve a Jnani in all directions,
The lotus seated god (Bramha), will request a Jnani, to keep his
feet over his head!

(Source: Day by Day with Bhagavan Ramana, Devaraja Mudaliar,
Sri Ramansramam, Tiruvannamalai, Translations of the verses,
my own.)

Arunachala Siva.

General topics / Re: Gita upadesh
« on: November 07, 2008, 10:03:23 AM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

Why Krishna chose Arjuna,

Arjuna represents an admixture of Sattva, Rajas, and Tamas,
all the three gunas, while Dharmaputra represents pure Sattva,
(hence no need for any advice), and Bhima represents pure
Tamas (hence no use telling anything).  So Krishna chose Arjuna.

Why Krishna chose Khurukshetra War front?

The war front represents the place, where Arjuna had the
delusion and doubts, Arjuna Vishadham.  Only a seeker who is
deluded about the life and is having doubts about the purpose of
a human life, is fit for self enquiry or self surrender. When one
keep "enjoying" life and has no doubts about his happiness from
such a life, cannot be given self knowledge.  "Let his play be over,
and then he can come ,"  said Bhagavan Ramana to some one.
And so the reason for Krishna choosing the war front.

Why did Krishna choose, amongst various others?

Arjuna only felt his helplessness, not Bhishma nor Dharmaputra,
nor anyone in the opposite camp, like Duryodhana and Karna,
because all these people 'trusted' their own abilities and had no
helplessness!   Only to a seeker who is helpless, will be helped
by a Guru.

Arunachala Siva.       

General Discussion / Re: imprtance of Sat sangha
« on: November 07, 2008, 09:55:05 AM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

Bhagavan Ramana always stressed the need of contemplating on
Arunachala Hills or going to Tiruvannamalai, as way to 'cleanse'
ourselves.  If one could see the Self within, without going anywhere,
it is the best, no doubt.  But majority of the seekers need the
Power of the Presence.  The power of the Presence helps the seekers
to a great extent.  Arunachala Puranam and Arunachala Mahatmyam,
both stress only this.  Sat Sangh is another great opportunity.  Here
again, Sat would mean the Self or the the society or the group
of people that abide in Sat.  This also helps the true seekers.  Bhagavan
has said in His poem:

The heat (or miseries of life) is cooled by the moon's rays, the
riches (or the riches of Self Knowledge), are obtained with Karpaga
Tree, (the Wishfulling Tree of the Heavans), the sins (or our vasanas)
are washed away by Ganga, but the Satsangh does all the three
simultaneously.  We need not wait for the full moon, nor go to
the heavans for Karpaga, nor go to North India for Ganga bath.
All happens by merely being in the company of such peoplee who
are nearby.

Arunachala Siva.   

General Discussion / Re: how do you experience yourselfs?
« on: November 07, 2008, 09:47:23 AM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

Whenever your idea or work is denied by others, we have to take
it in such a way that it is the wish of Bhagavan Ramana and He
knows the best.  Bhagavan has often used to say:  Nin Ishtam, En
Ishtam, that is Your Wish is My wish.  This is the way in which we
have to proceed. 

Arunachala Siva.

General topics / Re: mahamudra meditation
« on: November 06, 2008, 05:23:06 PM »
Dear mai chop gohok,

Bhagavan Ramana did not recommend, any mudras, any postures,
(ASANAS), any mantras, any japas.  For the seekers who are still
on the path of Ramana Way, He was considerate to approve
'bhakti" and that too, woship to outside God, which will take you
worship to within, that is the Self Surrender.  But many practices
have been adopted by different seekers and Bhagavan Ramana
did not want to interfere with them, much less on mahamudra
and things like that, as it was His nature not to interfere.

Arunachala Siva.


The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Destiny and Free Will
« on: November 06, 2008, 02:27:17 PM »
Once Devaraja Mudaliar, asked Bhagavan Ramana whether everything
in a living being's life is predestined or whether there would be any
free will for that living being to work out.  Bhagavan Ramana said
that everything that has to be happen will be happen, since these things
have been designed by God even at the time of his birth.

Then Devaraja Mudaliar asked further:  "If that is so, even the
very small acts, like lifting a hand fan and fanning in the Hall and
placing handfan back on the floor, are these predestined?"
Bhagavan Ramana emphatically said:  "Yes, even such small acts
are predestined."

Then, what about Self enquiry?  Bhagavan Ramana has said that
the jivas have freedom only to choose and make efforts for self
enquiry, and self realization, and that is the only thing left for them.

This naturally gives us a doubt, whether our prayers/meditation/
worships/mantras etc., are to be answered to reduce our miseries
and hardships, how these are possible?  Bhagavan Ramana has,
though not directly answered at this point, has categorically said
that these prayers etc., would reduce the gravity of miseries, which
course again, have also been predestined!

This is said by Manikkavachagar also in Siva Puranam,

"With His Grace, we shall prostrate His feet."

(Source:  The Recollections of Bhagavan Sri Ramana, Devaraja
Mudaliar, Tamil, Sri Ramanasramam, Tiruvannamalai.)

Arunachala Siva.

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Tiru Jnana Sambandhar
« on: November 06, 2008, 11:53:30 AM »
Tiru Jnana Sambandhar, one of the four great Saiva Saints, has
composed songs called Tevarams in many Siva temples.  His songs
are grouped under the first three books of Saiva Canon, of twelve
books.  He has also sung songs on Tiruvannamalai.  His songs and
other Tiruvannamalai songs of Tevaram, used to be sung in the Old
Hall and Bhagavan used to like these songs immensely.  He has shed
tears when Tiru Jnana Sambandhar's songs were sung and He used
to say:  "Is he not Sivakumara, Siva's son?"

In fact, Kavyakanta Ganapati Muni has said in Sri Ramana Gita,
that Bhagavan Ramana is Himself an avatara of Skanda and
Tiru Jnana Sambandhar.

One verse from such Tiruvannamalai compositions reads like this:

O He is the consort of Unnamulai Uma, never leaving her body,
On that Hills of Tiruvannamalai, there are precious stones,
The streams and water falls  reverberate in the Hills,
One who prays to Annamalai, will have doubtlessly his karmas severed!

(Verse 1)

Another verse from a composition reads like this:

He stands as the Essence of Jnana, He shall, to his devotees,
Snap the load of worldly knowledge, this is the Truth of His Form,
The group of wild boars, the deers, the jungle bears,
Along with the group of elephants, will assemble in Tiruvannamalai.

(Verse 3)

(Source: Tevaram, Saiva Siddhanta Book Publishing House, Chennai.
Tamil.  Translation, my own.)

Arunachala Siva.