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Messages - Subramanian.R

Dear Ramanaduli and others,

There are 5 places or courts in which Nataraja danced and these
are called Pancha Sabhas.  I am sorry.  This is different from the
7 places where Nataraja had specific dance forms in each of these
places.  Nataraja is always seen in a dancing pose, but these 5
Sabhas and 7 Dancing places are different.

The 5 Sabhas are:

Kanaka Sabha or Golden Court - Chidambaram.  Nataraja Temple.
Rathaja Sabha or Silver Court - Madurai.  Somasundara Temple.
Sembu Sabha or Copper Court -Tirunelveli.  Nellai Appar Temple.
Ratna Sabha or Ruby Court - Tiru Alangadu, near Chennai. Vata Aranya
                                                      Isvarar Temple, attached to Tiruttani.
Chitra Sabha or Mural Court - Kuttralam, near Courtallam Falls.-
                                                       Kutralesvasrar Temple, Tenkasi.

Arunachala Siva.

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Umapati Sivam
« on: November 09, 2008, 11:53:43 AM »
Umapati Sivam, is from a special priest class, (Dishitars) of
Chidambaram, who are only supposed to touch the Natraja metal
icon and do poojas in Chidambram.  They are very very orthodox
people, well read in Sanskrit and Tamil.  Umapati Sivam was doing
pooja for Nataraja six times a day, each time, bathing, wearing
new dhotis and upper cloth, having holy ashes and travelling in
a planquin from his home to the Temple.  Four servants used to
be going with the palanquin with firebrands on their hands on
four sides of the palanquin as a mark of respect.  People coming
from opposite directions would give way for the palanquin.

Umapati Sivam inspite of his high position, his learning was restless
in his life and thought he cannot attain liberation.  One day, when
he was travelling on the palanquin for a Noon Pooja, there appeared
one mad cap on the way and the pall bearers asked him to go away.
He looked at Umapati Sivam and exclaimed:  "On a dead corpse, is
travelling a corpse, which is not yet dead!  And it is day-blind, it is
day blind!"

Umapati Sivam on hearing these words, jumped out of the palanquin,
and ran after that madcap!  He was also running fast and Umapati
Sivam was chasing him.  Finally they reached a village outside the
town, where the weavers were speareding the yarn on the streets,
and applying hot fluid of rice flour and water, (starch) to make the
yarn stiffer.  Some pots were on the fire, with rice flour fluid boiling.

The madcap stopped there.  Umapati Sivam knelt down in front of him.
The mad cap drowned his hand on the boiling fluid in the pot, took
a handful and gave it to Umapati Sivam.  Sivam took it in his cupped
hands and drank the hot liquid!  He became the disciple of the madcap.
The mad cap is Arul Nandi Sivam.  Both Arul Nandi Sivam and Umapati
Sivam became later the two great exponents of Saiva Siddhantam,
and wrote a commentary called Siva Jnana Siddhi for Siva Jnana Bodham.

What does dead corpe mean?  It means the bamboo sticks from the
bamboo tree, which is dead, and which is used for making palanquins.
Umapati was travelling on a dead corpse.  He is not yet dead, because
he is not liberated.  He is day blind because torches were burning
in the noon.   

Arunachala Siva.   

Ashrams / Re: How To Get To Tiruvanamalai From Trichy Airport
« on: November 09, 2008, 11:39:07 AM »
Dear Janet,

Yes. Local city cabs and cabs for long distance can accommodate
five persons, excluding the driver.  You have to speak English,
there is no other go.  But beware of excess fare.  Travel in the
day time.

Arunachala Siva.   

Dear Ramanaduli,

Bhagavan Ramana is a different fish.  We cannot compare ourselves
with Him.  But do not worry, for most of us, during extreme emtions
of pain or even happiness, the mind starts playing its game and you
cannot watch the mind and be quiet.  Whether it is a car accident
or your son bringing a nice chocolate, the mind always jumps for its
own play.  Even a third party 'happening' gives us joy or pain as per
the whimsies of the mind.  Even Barack Obama won the US elections,
my son telephoned from HK, my niece telephoned from Boston,
my wife was watching NDTV and I also enjoyed.  At that time,
one cannot say: "For whom is this victory?  Is it for Obama? Is it
for me?  If it is for me, who am I?  I am not the mind."  This
utter neutrality in emtions will come only in due course, and not
immeditately.  It does not mean, that you should be like a dud.
Definitely not.  One should go past these emtions, and this will take
time.  Only Bhagavan Ramana's will make it swifter, through His Grace.
if we have 'arrived' and we are 'ready'.  Thereafter, we shall still
have the emtions, like a mirror reflecting the joys and miseries outside.
But the mirror does not shed tears!

Arunachala Siva.   

General topics / Re: Shiva Thandav
« on: November 09, 2008, 11:23:31 AM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

There are 5 places in which Siva showed His cosmic dancing.  These are
for either to bless the devotees or for the Sages and Raja Yogis.
The places where these dances were done, are the Sabhas or Courts,
or Ambalams in Tamil.
Each place was made of, either precious stones, gold, silver, copper
or mural paints on the walls.  I shall give details in due course.  Like
this, there are 8 places where He is supposed to be in a very angry
state, after killing or punishing the erring demons or others.  These
are Ashta Veera Sthalas.

These details are available in Tevaram songs and Kunchitangri Stavam,
a Sanskrit work.

Arunachala Siva. 

General topics / Re: Blessings
« on: November 09, 2008, 11:16:22 AM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

I was thinking about your post.  A reasonably long life and adequate material and physical wealth are needed for one's pursuit of the
path of Jnana.  An empty stomach cannot contemplate on Godhead.
It was possible for Bhagavan Ramana, because He was a class apart.
But for most of the seekers these are essential.

Again, Jnana cannot be conferred by parents by merely blessing
for Jnana.  It has to be individually acquired.  Whereas long life and Isvarya, can be blessed by elders/parents, since their wishes for these things to the prostrator/children would have their effect for these

Now tell me, why Bhagavan Ramana asked : Who am I?  and not
Who are We?

Arunachala Siva.   

General topics / Re: mahamudra meditation
« on: November 09, 2008, 11:05:17 AM »
Dear mai chop gohok,

A few clarifications.  You may agree or not.

First, Bhagavan Ramana was not a Hindu, at least after self
realization.  He is beyond all religions.  He is beyond all stages
of life, ati-asrami.  You may ask, why then He put on Vibhuti and
prayed to Arunachala?  Vibhuti, to Him was a mark, to denote
that all this body would one day become the ashes, since they
are impermanent.  He considered Arunachala not as Godhead but
as Father, the Self, Brahman.  Any teacher for that matter, should
proceed from certain basic adherences to the already existing religions.
Christ had to be a Jew, the Buddha had to be a Hindu, Mahavira had
to be a Hindu, till the end of their life in the body.

Since Bhagavan Ramana was always a indicator of the sublimity
of Atma, which for the seekers first is within the Heart, though
it is all pervading and all expansive.  He therefore did not bother
about the conventional religions which His devotees were following.
He stressed that everyone should, first, be in their own stable to come
out of the stable for freedom.  That way, even if Buddhists, (I am not
sure whether anyone practising Mahamudra meditation came to Him.)
were allowed to follow their own path since it would have eventually
led to them to the path of pure wisdom.  The same is the case with
Christians, Muslims, Parsis etc., etc.,

Arunachala Siva.

General topics / Re: The Lotus
« on: November 09, 2008, 10:52:32 AM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

Lotus is of two varieties.  The red lotus is equated to the feet, hands
and face of a Guru or a God.  Pankajam, Ambhujam, Sarorukam,
there are said to be 50 names for louts, as per Amara Kosam, a
Sanskrit dictionary.  In Tiruvembavai, last song, Manikkavachagar,
says:  His feet are like lotus.  This lotus is at the beginning of Vedas,
middle of Vedas, and the end of Vedas.  His face is like lotus.  This
face looks at Uma, Ganapati, Skanda and me!

The full bloomed lotus is again equated to the Heart.  It could
be post organic heart and the Heart mentioned by Bhagavan Ramana.
The lotus is a flower of Hindu traditions.   Even Buddha has mentioned
his Sutras as Hrudaya Kamala Sutra, Heart Sutra, Prajna Parimita etc.,
He is said to have shown a lotus flower to his disciple Govinda or
Nagarjuna, and and then merged with the Godhead.

Arunachala Siva.

General Discussion / Re: imprtance of Sat sangha
« on: November 09, 2008, 10:45:14 AM »
Dear Ramanaduli and others,

The Presence of a Brahmajnani or a temple, stills the mind and the ego,
apart from making him to proceed further for self realization.  Stillness
comes first.  The quietening of the mind and ego has been experienced
my many devotees.  Paul Brunton came with several questions, with
a long paper. The mind is made calm and quiet and then the answers
get revealed without 'asking'.  This is the experience of many devotees
who came to Arunachala and also to the Asram to be with Bhagavan
Ramana.  Chittam dhanai Sivamakki... says Manikkavachagar.  A Guru
or a temple make your mind calm and then make it blissful.  Sivam
is Knowledge and Bliss.

Arunachala Siva. 

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Arunai Ramanesan
« on: November 08, 2008, 02:00:28 PM »
Arunai Ramanesan is a composition of ten verses, by Muruganar,
in Sri Ramana Sannidhi Murai.  Even during Bhagavan Ramana's
days in the Asram, this song used to be sung in His Presence.

Verse 2 reads like this:

With his third fiery eye, he burnt the Tripuras in a trice,
But this great warrior, he burnt me with his simple smile,
Like a snake charmer, he took alms from young girls,
   after charming the snake,
He is beyond the reach of red eyed Vishnu and four faced Brahma,
And stood as a red column of effulgence,
He took hold me with his beautiful eyes and made me go to his feet,
   he is Siva, the Arunai Ramanesa!

Verse 3 reads like this:

He is graceful even to those who throw stones and pray to him*,
He like he did for Poompavai** took control of many devotees like me,
He with his flame like eyes, and with Heart like molten gold,
Became happy with showered his love on me, and he ruled over me.
      He is Siva, the Arunai Ramanesa!

(Source: Sri Ramana Sannidhi Murai, Tamil verses, Muruganar,
  Sri Ramanasramam, 1998 edition, Sri Ramanasramam, Tiruvannamalai.
  Translation, my own.)

Arunachala Siva.

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Tiru Chitrambala Kovai.
« on: November 08, 2008, 01:42:58 PM »
Tiru Chitrambala Kovai, is a composition of 400 verses sung by
Saint Poet Manikkavachagar on Nataraja of Chidambaram, where
he ultimately united as light into the Flame of Nataraja.  This
poem is called Aha-Porul, meaning that it tells about the woman-
man erotica!  This poem was sung after Tiruvachakam.  Even though
the poems would convey meanings of erotica, esorterically these
would mean union of individual soul with the Self.  Many Western
scholars like David Smith, Dr. G.U. Pope have analyzed and commented
on them.

Verse 8 reads like this:

This girl with words like milk and nectar, cannot describe that taste,
Of the union with her lover Siva, it is a good fortune from our gods,
Only those who have tasted it can describe the union that I had
   with the Pure of Puliyur*,
In the dark caves, the hills, how can chaste women** describe?

(* Pure of Puliyur, Nataraja of Chidambaram. Puliyur is a classical
   name for Chidambaram like Thillai.  "Puli" means tiger, the Sage
   Vyagrapada prayed to Siva, as a tiger in Chidambaram.  He
   and Patanjali witnessed the Cosmic Dance of Siva.  Vyagrapada
   or Panini came as a tiger, and he was the one who wrote Sanskrit
   grammar.  Patanjali wrote Yoga Sastra and he took the form of
   a snake.  **  Chaste women, who are confined to their husbands,
   cannot know this man, who is the Self.  They are only fit for union
   of individual soul with another individual soul!)

Verse 9 reads like this:

He cannot be comprehended by people who know only human thoughts,
He is the One in the court of Thillai, he is beyond human comprehension,
With my coral like lips, slender waist, I unite with Him, and this
   union is a greater bliss with every act of union, new and new,
My fragrant curly hairs and my ..... swell everytime when I think of it!

Verse 9 reads like this:

He is immeasurable, beyond human knowledge,
This girl with breasts big like the court of Chidambaram,
And sword like large eyes, and the forehead as curved as crescent moon,
And  lightning like slender waist, bamboo like shoulders,
Whose words should I hear?  Who can describe? After I have seen!     

(Source: Tiru Chitrambala Kovai, Tamil Original Verses,
 Mr. Bhaktavatchalam, Gudiyatham, Vellore District, Tamil Nadu.)

Arunachala Siva. 

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Sri Ramana Arut Pathu
« on: November 08, 2008, 01:12:45 PM »
Sri Ramana Arut Pathu, is a composition of ten verses and is
styled as Arut Pathu of Manikkavachagar.  It is in Sri Ramana
Sannidhi Murai.

Verse 3 reads like this:

In the world you came as a human being,
And took the name as Ramana,
O Pari*, the Sun of Wisdom,
You held us and dissolved our minds,
With your floodtide of Bliss,
Like a rain cloud, O the Ocean of Bliss,
You saw me, called me, and graced me!

(* Pari is a philanthrophic Tamil king, who
     gave abundant gifts to poets.)

Verse 8 reads like this:

You held this sinner and burnt all the karmas,
You saw me, called me and graced me, O Guru Ramana Deva!
You swelled the flood tide of bliss in the devotees who contemplate
O the Well of Bliss, please call me to drink your grace!

(Source: Sri Ramana Sannidhi Murai, 1998 edition, Tamil,
Sri Ramansramam, Tiruvannamalai, Tamil Nadu. Translation
my own.)

Arunachala Siva.  

General Discussion / Re: imprtance of Sat sangha
« on: November 08, 2008, 11:48:48 AM »
Once a Muslim gentleman came and asked Bhagavan Ramana:
Do you believe in a formless god or god with form?

Bhagavan replied: I believe in both.

The gentleman:  Then, you are wrong.  The god is formless.

Bhagavan: Now, tell me, do you have a form?

The gentleman:  Yes.  I have this body.

Bhagavan: Then, what happens, when you go to sleep.

The gentleman:  It is not there. But it is there, when I wake up!

Bhagavan: Then, what happens when you die?

The gentleman:  Then, they take it away and bury it.

Bhagavan:  Who said to bury that?

The gentleman:  I do not know.  My wife would say.

Bhagavan:  Then, what does your wife like?  Your body or mind.

The gentleman: ( a little confused in the trap):  Both.  The body
     when I am alive and my memories, when I am dead.

Bhagavan:  This is what I am also doing.  I believe in form when
      I have thoughts about the form, and the formless when
      thoughts cease!

All loads lead to Tiruvannamalai, or to Bodh Gaya or the Mecca,
  or to Shirdi, or to the Vatican.

Arunachala Siva.       

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Arut Pathu
« on: November 08, 2008, 11:38:39 AM »
Arut Pathu, or Decad of Grace, is a poem of Manikkavachagar,
in Tiruvachakam.  Muruganar has also composed an Arut Pathu,
on Bhagavan Ramana and it is found in Sri Ramana Sannidhi Murai.

Verse 1 of the decad reads like this:

O Effulgence! O the Fire! O the Great Lamp!
O the concorporate consort of the woman with
   curly hairs and closely formed breasts!
O the Primordial Lord! the One who adorns the milk white holy ash!
O the Substance which Brahma and Vishnu could not fathom,
The Divine Justice, the Treasure, the One who stays in
   Tirup Perundurai!
On the side of Kurunthai Tree, decked with flowers,
O the Primordial Lord, if I call you with full of praise,
Won't you say: Why fear?  Please grace me.

Verse  4 reads like this:

O the Lord, who is beyond the sight of lotus seated Brahma,
And the bluish cloud like Vishnu,
O the Blemishless, You came to me
As Effulgence, O my Father,
O the Lord of Triup Perundurai, where the four Vedas adore you,
The one who stays on the side of Kurunthai Tree, decked with flowers,
O the Formelss Lord, if I call you with full praise,
Won't you say: Why fear?  Please grace me.

(Source: Tiruvachakam, Tamil, Saiva Siddhanta Book Publishing
  House, Chennai. Translation, my own.)

Arunachala Siva.

Saint Arunagiri Natha sang thousands of songs in Tiruppugazh,
but only about 1350 songs are now available.  He sang in all
five pancha bhuta kshetras, in all Murugan temples and also
some songs where there is no specific place mentioned.  His
Tiruvannamalai songs are as great as any of his other songs.
Of course, he sang Kandar Anubhuti in Tiruvannamalai which was
his last composition.

In one song, he asks for liberation, at least at the time of death,
for all his songs!

She was looking at me with her fish like eyes, and said:
O, husband,  I have lost!  - She is my wife.

When I asked for my sons, they same and cried: O Appa and
  fell on me!

The relatives and others started weeping, and the drums are ready for,  sounding, (for taking my body to burial ground),   

The god of death and his messengers are ready with their whips!

O at that stage atleast, can you not liberate me by taking pity on me?

O the one who resides in the tower of Tiruvannamalai, with his
   peacock and flag staff of the cock!

The darling of the devas, the lover of Valli, the king for the

The one who unite with Valli on the Hills, swarmed by honeybees,

O the Lord, who annihilated the demons and their armies, the
   Source and the Liberation!

(Source:  Tiruppugazh - Tamil - Tiruppugazh Devotees Group,
  New Delhi.  Translation, my own.)

Arunachala Siva.