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Messages - Subramanian.R

General topics / Re: mahamudra meditation
« on: November 10, 2008, 01:52:29 PM »
Dear mai goh chop,

They are doing Poojas even today in the Asram, because the devotees
and ashram authorities consider Bhagavan Ramana, who was not
different from Siva even earlier, has now become Siva Himself.  Like
the Christians, at least a certain sect, do for the Christ's photograph
or to the Cross, which is a symbol of  sacrifice.  You know, Teravada
Buddhists pray to the Buddha's statues with incense sticks and camphor

If any one wants to go away from burden, be it religious or philosophical, he can still do self enquiry, from such position.

If people in Nepal and India do Osho devotional practices in some
form, be it Veera Marga or something else, let  them do.  We have
no quarrel.  Each one, according to their inclination, but not creating
objection from the society.

Mahamudra or no mahamudra, one can still do self enquiry.

Arunachala Siva.       

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Kunchitanghristavam - 3
« on: November 10, 2008, 11:55:45 AM »
Kunchtanghristavam, also describes the dance of Siva, after
the sages of Dharuka forest were humbled.

Vishnu, who came as Siva's wife, narrates, in verse 13.1 - 74:

And I shall tell how I behaved to all their husbands,
great souled ascetics that they were,
even in front of their wives.

I instantly became a woman,
such that the great sages would think of me,
neither chaste nor a courtesan,
and stood beside the Great Lord,
who was gently laughing!

Looking intently on my face,
supremely intent, as if upon Brahman,
they committed a succession of offences,
bringing about rebirth for themselves.

Then some of the old men among them,
Rich in ascetism, were extremely angry,
'Who is this man in the guise of a Kapalika,
A skull bearer, who has boldly come into our hermitages,
And at once puts an end,
to the conjugal fidelity of excellent wives,
-- 'fidelity that is the foundation of the universe,'
They released the arrows of fierce curses,

They released them and saw them straight back,
without hitting Him.
The fury of all those eminent sages were not allayed

Some maintaining restraint
tended the pits of their sacrificial fires,
-- as though they wanted Him to stop
and perform the Tandava dance.

I worship Him
that friend of Kubera, the Lord of Wealth,
Whose foot is curved.

(Source:  The Dance of Siva, David Smith, Cambridge University
Press, Cambridge, UK.)

Arunachala Siva.   

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Kunchitanghristavam
« on: November 10, 2008, 11:36:43 AM »
Kunchitanghristavam, also speaks about the sages Sanaka and
others listening to the Silence of Siva, as Sri Dakshinamoorthy.

Verse 284 reads like this:

The Lord of all, Source of all beings,
His nature unchangeable,
giver of all, ornament of all,
all surpassing, His name is Being,
eyes full of compassion,
the essence of all Vedanta,
Truth, Existence and Dwelling in the Space,
Worshipped by Sanaka and the other sages,
energy in the singing of Sama Veda,
the Lord of the Hall, praised by all poets, 

Him the Supreme, the ultimate dancer,
Whose curved foot, I worship!

(Source:  The Dance of Siva, David Smith, Cambridge University
Press, Cambridge, UK.)

Arunachala Siva.

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Kunchitanghristavam
« on: November 10, 2008, 11:28:09 AM »
I wrote about Umapati Sivam, yesterday, who sought his Guru,
Arul Nandi Sivam and embraced Saiva Siddhantam.  What is
Saiva Siddhantam and how is it different from Advaitam?  The
explanation would take more than two or three posts and I shall
deal with it later.  Umapati Sivam is the author of Kunchitanghristavam,
a composition of more than 250 verses on Nataraja.  This is one of the
few works of Umapati Sivam, which is in the form of Prayer and not
dialectics.  This is in Sanskrit.

Kunchitam is 'raised foot' or 'curved foot' of Nataraja.  This
is his left  foot, which is Vara Mudra, pose of gifts to devotees,
which culminate in liberation.

Verse 295 of the Stavam reads like this:

He Who wears the skin decided to spread
the knowledge of Advaita, in all the worlds,
and joyfully created from a portion of Himself
in the ocean of the family of the terrestrial gods,
Who allay darkness by worshipping His own foot,
a lord among ascetics, pure and called Sankara,
who occupied the throne of omniscience.
He conferred His grace upon him.

Him Supreme, the ultimate dancer,
Whose foot is curved, I worship!

(Here there is a reference to Sankara, the exponent of Advaita,
who Umapati Sivam, considers as Siva's part.  He says Sankara
was born in Chidambaram.)

(Source:  The Dance of Siva, David Smith, Cambridge University
Press, Cambridge, UK.)

Arunachala Siva.

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Self-Enquiry-Daily life
« on: November 10, 2008, 11:09:09 AM »
Dear Marcus,

The daily life has got a beginning and an end and is impermanent.
But Life, Eternal Life, is Eternal, beyond space and time.

The life of a living being clings to the individual soul, which is nothing
but the Self but deluded by Maya, appearances of world and personal
gods.  The individual soul identifies itself as the Self, when the play
is over, if appearances are removed by self enquiry.

Arunachala Siva. 

General topics / Re: mahamudra meditation
« on: November 10, 2008, 11:05:05 AM »
Dear mai chop gohok,

The Brahmins in the Asram did Pooja because it was the custom
amongst Hindus, to do pooja for the cows, any new starting ceremony
for constructions, or to the Siva Linga in Mathrubhutesvarar Temple,
Mother's Samadhi.  You can take it that Bhagavan Ramana did tolerate
all non-objectionable practices and He also did not stop them.  His
way was a way to Atma and He did not have any quarrel with any
religion.  As I told you last evening, every pathfinder should have
a basic platform of his own religion, to start with.  Bhagavan Ramana
did not start any new religion, but only showed a new path, which had
gathered dust and cactus, after Gaudapada and Sankara.  But He
would have definitely objected to any prohibitive ways of worship
or sacrifice.

For example, no body dared to come to His Asram and say that
he would  follow the Veera Marga of Sakta Tantra, a worship to
Godhead in the pose of union with a woman!  Mind you, this
is an accepted practice of Hindu religion and perhaps Osho came
very near to this system.  He did not approve animal sacrifices too.
He was against caste and creed, but there were two separate rows for brahmins and non brahmins in lunch hall and He was sitting in
the middle of the two rows.  This shows, He did not approve caste
practices, but tolerated the practices of other brahmins.

As regards, mahamudra, I never said that He would have objected to that
meditation if some Buddhists had come and practised it in the Old Hall.
He would have tolerated that, and for that matter, any practice, which
was not vulgar and objectionable in the normal sense of the term.

But the fact remains He was beyond Hinduism and any such religions,
which had, in course of time, contaminated the philosophy of Pure
Enquiry and Self Knowledge.

Arunachala Siva.     

General topics / Re: Blessings
« on: November 10, 2008, 10:46:38 AM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

Your view may also be correct.

The Hindu religion believes in the theory of individual salavation.
Each one, has to work out for himself or herself, the way to
liberation through his/her own self enquiry or devotion.  There is
no group salvation in Hinduism.  A group of people may together
reach Heavens in other religions like "group tourism"!   But this
is not the way in Hinduism.  Instances of group salvation is very
rare in Hinduism, in certain stories.  For example, for Jnana
Sambandhar attained in Moksha as soon as he got married in
Tirunallut Peru Manam, not only he and his wife but also all the
guests who came to the wedding are said to have attained liberation!

I have not heard any other stories on this type.

Hence, it is WHO AM I? and not Who are we?

Arunachala Siva.   

Dear Ramanaduli,

Natanam is the common name for the dances of man and woman.
If it is man's dance, it is called Tandavam and if it is woman's
it is called Lasyam.  Sri Lalita Tripurasundari is called as Lasya
Priya in Lalita Sahasranamam.

The man, the demon, under Nataraja's right foot is Muyalakan,
or Apasmaran. Apasmaram is nothing but madness, the madness
of the ego!

The right foot of Nataraja is called Kunchitam, which means either
raised foot or curved foot.  This is the place of Moksha for devotees.

The dancing with a change in foot is in Madurai, which is Silver
Sabha.  This dance was for the sake of one devotee, perhaps it is

Arunachala Siva.

General topics / Re: The Lotus
« on: November 10, 2008, 10:34:51 AM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

You are correct. Sahasrara is a thousand petalled lotus, whose
stem originates from Mooladhrara.  Mooladhara is referred to as
a root of the lotus flower.  Please see Sri Soundarya Lahari meaning
for more elaboration.

Arunachala Siva.

Saiva Siddhantis always chanted Namasivaya mantra, by rotating
the syllables five times.  This has been given by Saint Arunagiri Natha,
in one of his Tiruvannamalai Tiruppugazh.

The poem reads like this:

Jaya Jaya Arunadhri, Si va ya na ma,
Jaya Jaya Arunadhri, Ma si va ya na,
Jaya Jaya Arunadhri, Na ma si va ya,
Jaya Jaya Arunadhri, ya na ma si va,
Jaya Jaya Arunadhri, va ya na ma si,

Jaya Jaya Arunadhri, Siv va ya na ma,
By changing like this, and keeping my eyes on the Hills,
   chanting Sarnadhri and melting in my heart,
Jaya Jaya Guru bhagyam, this is, shall I drink the ocean of bliss,
Jaya Jaya Arunadhri, so saying, the Sages,
Have got their karmas powdered in a trice.

O Vela,who burnt the demons who stood like mountains!

When the two competed to see your head and feet,
Dashing their hopes, you stood as a large column of effulgence,*
And taught the Pranava to that column of effulgence,
Jaya Jaya Arunadhri, when the devotees chant like this,
You cancelled the karmas, and danced in the Space as effulgence.*

She stood as a parrot and you drank  sweet nectar from her lips,
The huntress**, whom you married and stayed in
The Arunadhri, happily, O golden god!

*As I posed earlier, Arunagiri Natha does not distinguish between
Siva and Skanda. ** Valli, the huntress girl.

(Source: Tiruppugazh, Tamil, Tiruppugazh Devotees Group,
    New Delhi.  Prose explanation, my own.)

Arunachala Siva.   

General Discussion / Re: imprtance of Sat sangha
« on: November 09, 2008, 03:08:28 PM »
Dear Matthias,

It is not silly.  This could be one way of quietening the mind.

Muruganar, the famous poet-devotee of Bhagavan Ramana used
to go out to the open ground within the Asram and just look at
the sky at early nights.  These were not, mind you, full moon days!
He just looked the sky to get piece.  This could be, what Buddhists
call, 'one hand clapping!'

Bobby Fisher, the famous chess player, who defeated Boris
Spassky and got the world championship crown in Iceland,
asked for a room without balcony and without the sight of
swimming pool, closed the door and simply looked at the door
or the wall, to quieten his mind or concentrate his mind!

Arunachala Siva.   

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Sri Ramana Vazha Pathu
« on: November 09, 2008, 01:09:17 PM »
Decad on desire of not willing to live, in Sri Ramana Sannidhi
Murai, is a compositon of Muruganar with 10 verses.

Verse 3 reads like this:

I have no desire excepting for your Feet, O Primordial,
   I have no other desire you know,
O Venkata, you ruled me this lowly wastrel, O Effulgence
   of the great Arunachala!
I want to think only your in a thoughtless state like
   other great devotees,
I have no desire to live with logicians and the learned,
   I have no desire of willing to live, please call me and grace me!

Verse 5 reads like this:

O I have no desire excepting for your feet, O consort of
     Uma, with feet like silk cotton,
O Venkata, you ruled me saying Do not fear, O Effiulgence
     of the great Arunachala!
I want to contemplate only your lotus feet, please make me
     steadfast in that, and grace me,
I have no desire to live in delusion with scoundrels of this
     world, I have no desire of williong to live, please call me and
     grace me!

(Source: Sri Ramana Sannidhi Murai, 1998 edition, Tamil,
   Sri Ramansramam. Translation my own.)

Arunachala Siva.

Vazha Pathu, or Decad on desire of not willing to live, is a
composition of ten verses in Tiruvachakam, by Saint Poet

Verse 3 reads like this:

I have no desire other than to sing your Feet which are not
    yet found by Vishnu who praised you,
You searched for me and took hold of me, O King of Sivapura!
    the resident of Tiru Perundurai, Siva,
I  can only quarrel with you or like you and unite with you,
      You have promised you to make me comprehend you,
I am getting withered, I have no desire of willing to live,
      please come and grace me by calling me!

Verse  5 reads like this:

O the consort of Uma with words like music, I have no
    other desire other than your golden feet,
You have ruled me with determination, O King of Sivapura!
      the resident of Tiru Perundurai, Siva,
I can only keep my mind, body, mouth, nose, ears and eyes on you!
I have no desire of willing to live on this earth,
     plese come and grece me by calling me!

(Source: Tiruvachakam, Tamil, Manikkavachagar, Saiva
   Siddhanta Book Publishing House, Chennai. Translation, my own.)

Arunachala Siva. 

Dear Ramanaduli and others,

As per Ramanaduli's request, I have covered 5 Sabhas and 7 Dancing
Centres.  I shall now give you the eight punishing centres, of Siva.

1.  Tiru Kandiyur - near Thanjavur - Where Brahma's one of the
                                                               heads was snapped.

2. Tiru Kovalur -  near Chennai - Andhakasura was killed.

3. Tiru Adigai - Triupura Samhara.

4. Tiu Pariayalur - Daksha Samhara.

5. Tiru Virkudi - Jalandhasura Samhara.

6. Vazhuvur - famous for Vazhvur Ramaiah Pillai, a Bharata Natya
                           teacher -  Gaja Samhara - The killing of the elephant sent
                          by Daruka sages.

7.  Tiru Kurukkai - Manmatha Samhara.

8.   Tiru Kadavur - Yama being kicked.  This is the famous Abhirami

Arunachala Siva.

Sapta Vitanga Sthala or the Seven Dancing Centres of Nataraja,
are those centres where Siva made a specific form of dancing.
These 7 centres are different from 5 Sabhas.  Here, Siva or
Natraja are said to be self-appearing and not made by a sculptor,
using hammer and tong!

These 7 centres are:

1. Tiruvarur - Ajabha Natanam.

2. Tirunallar - (the famous temple for Saturn!) - Unmatta Natanam.
                                                                                         (Mad Dance)

3. Tiru Nakai Koranam - Paravara Dharanga Natanam.

4. Tiru Karayil - Kukkuta Natanam (Kukkuta - Cock)

5. Tiru Kolili - Bhrunga Natanam - (Bhrunga was a Siva Yogi)

6. Tiru Voimoor - Kamala Natanam

7. Tirumarai Kadu - Vedaranyam - Hamsapada Natanam.

(Source: A pilgrimage to Tirumuai Temples - that is temples,
           covered by Saiva Canons.  Tamil. Old book!)

Arunachala Siva.