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Messages - Subramanian.R

46651
General topics / Re: THEORY/ PRACTICE OF SPIRITUALITY
« on: August 24, 2008, 11:31:13 AM »
Dear Sankar, I have no quarrel and I agree with you.  Practice
should go on, to obtain the fruits of the scriptural books.  A
gram of practice is worth more than a tonne of reading and
theory.

Arunachala Siva.
 

46652
General topics / Re: Samkhya (Sankhya) and Advaita
« on: August 24, 2008, 11:28:32 AM »
Dear who,  in Sankhya philosphy, there is a Purusha (the Supreme
Brahman, with attributes, saguna) and Prakriti, (jiva with three
gunas) and there are 24 other tattvas, principles, like five elements,
five senses etc.,  Sankhya said that Prakriti should join the Purusha
in the heavens, after death.  Advaita said that Prakriti should
merge in Brahman in life or at the time of death, and there is no
question of 'joining' or 'heavens'.  Kapila is said to have coded
the Sankhya philosophy.  Sankhya sometimes also refers to the
Buddha.

Arunachala Siva.       

46653
General topics / Re: DIFFICULTIES ENCOUNTERED IN THE PATH OF REALISATION
« on: August 24, 2008, 11:24:09 AM »
Dear Sankar and Raju,  Both the Buddha and Bhagavan attained
self-realization.  But there are differences.  First, Bhagavan attained
the Self Realization in Madurai house itself.  He is a Jivan Mukta,
from that time.  He did not become a Jivan Mukta, after he came
to Tiuvannamalai.  Buddha, became enlightene, after facing the
demons and difficulties, and after that only he became self realized.
They say, Buddha became enlightened at the age of 80, whereas
in Bhagavan's case iit was in His 16th year.  Second,  Bhagavan had
difficulties for food, codpiece, etc., and had some opposistion from the bogus  sadhus in the Hill.  He did not have any problem with demons or
devils.

An interesting story in this context.  A yogi, who could visualise
the 'halo' around Jnanis, came to Bhagavan and said:  The Buddha's
halo was around 800 metres long on both sides of his head.  Sri
Aurobindo had it for about 200 metres, but Bhagavan had a 'halo'
which stretched miles and miles on both sides.  Bhagavan said to
him:  Why are you bothered about other Jnanis' 'halo'.  Try to
measure your 'halo'!

Arunachala Siva.     

46654
My dear non duel, Yes.  Thoughts are the barrier.  As in the
pole-vault game, one has to keep the one long stick of Who am I?
and jump over the other thoughts, the horizontal stick!  Upanishads
say that the Brahman, the Self, is beyond the Vedic words, which
are unclean with saliva, because of mouthing the scriptures!

Arunachala Siva. 

46655
General topics / Re: Life-Death
« on: August 23, 2008, 06:06:21 PM »
Dear Raju,  Very much yes.  The Who am I?  is the stick is
pointing to the Self within.  This burns all the outgoing thoughts,
and in the Self Realization, it burns itself.

Arunachala Siva.

46656
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (83)
« on: August 23, 2008, 05:56:16 PM »
The Chapter IV continues...

Verse 66:-  If sometimes, owing to actions performed in previous
births the mind of a reflective man is distracted by desire, then
it may be brought back to a peaceful state, by the constant
practice of spiritual meditations.

Verse 67:-  That manwhose mind is not subject to distraction
is not merely a knower of Brahman, but Brahman Itself -- so
declare the sages versed in the scriptures of Vedanta.

Verse 68:- One whose mind does no longer dwell on whether
he knows Brahman or not but who remains identified with  Pure
Consciousness  or knowledge, is not merely a knower of Brahman
but Brahman Itself.

(Muktika Upanishad 2.64 ; Yoga Vasishtam.)

Verse 69:-  This liberation in life is the final step attained by
sublating or removing the mental creations of the Jiva, projected
on the world of Isvara.  So in this chapter, we have described
how the duality created by the Jiva differs from that created
by Isvara.

Concluded.

Arunachala Siva.       

46657
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (82)
« on: August 23, 2008, 05:33:23 PM »
The Chapter IV continues....

Verse 62:-  One who has understood intellectually the nature
of secondless Brahman, and who is free from the defects of
intellect, practise the Japa of Pranava, (Aum) and thus control
the vagaries of the mind.

Verse 63:-  When the mental world is thus conquered,
modifications of the mind gradually cease, the mind keep
mum like a dumb person.  This method was variously explained
by Vasishta to Rama.

(Yoga Vasishtam)

Verse 64:-  With the direct knowledge of the unsubsantiality
of the phenomenal world arises the profound bliss of Nirvana.

(Yoga Vasishtam)

Verse 65:-  A steady and concentrated study of the scriptures
and discussion on the Truth with the teacher and other learned
persons, lead to the disappearance of the last vestiges of the
desires and passions in the highest state.

(Yoga Vasishtam 57.28 - Sthitiprakarana)

To be contd....

Arunachala Siva.     

46658
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (81)
« on: August 23, 2008, 05:26:21 PM »
The Chapter IV continues....

Verse 57:-  O! Knower of Truth, do not sink to the level
of pigs in the sty!  Freeing yourself from all the defects
arising from your mind, be worshipped by the world like a god.

Verse 58:-  The scriptures dealing with liberation, proclaim
that these urges of passions can be overcome by constantly
thinking over the fettering nature of the objects of desire.
Adopt these means, conquer the passions and be happy.

Verse 60:-  "If a dwells mentally on any object of desire,
he will be attached to it.  Attachment gives rise to a longing
for it, and the frustration of desire leads to anger."

(Srimad Bhagavad Gita 2.62)

Verse 60A*:-  'From anger comes delusion, and from delusion
loss of memory.  From loss of memory comes the ruin of
discrimination, and from the ruin of discrimination the man
perishes."

(This verse 60A is not available in some editions of Panchadasi.
Nevertheless, it is a beautiful verse.  In Viveka Choodamani,
Sri Sankara says, the fall is like the fall of a ball from upstairs
to downstairs, through steps!  The fall is swift.  You know
how difficult it is to take a ball from the ground to upstairs through   
steps, by bouncing it on each step.  The fall is so swift, it does
not take much time and effort!)

Verse 61:-  This tendency of thinking on objects may be overcome
by meditation on the atrributelss Brahman.  This can gradually be
done, by first meditating on Isvara.

To be contd.,

Arunachala Siva.

46659
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (80)
« on: August 23, 2008, 05:15:18 PM »
The Chapter IV continues....

Verse 52:-  You may say:  Let there be no liberation in life.
I am satisfied if there is no birth anymore. We reply:- Then,
if the desires remain, you will have further births also.  You
So, be satisfied with heaven only.

(Heaven is there only for a certain period.  After the expiration
of merits, one has to be born again.  So is the case with hell.
Only liberation by merging with Brahman is everlasting.)

Verse 53:-  If you say that the pleasures of heaven are defective,
having waning and gradation effect, and so are to be reonounced,
then, why don't you give up this source of all evils, the passions,
now itself?

(The heavenly stay is only for a period.  Further, there are
gradations!  There is also jealousy between one god and
another god, they fight with each other.  Like Indra fought
with several fellows.)

Verse 54:- If cherishing the false idea that you have attained
liberation, you do not give up these passions, you transgress
then the laws of the scriptures and are self-willed.

(Thinking that you are a Brahma Jnani, self realized person,
do not transgress the laws.  If you do so, you will be making
a double fault.  A truly self realized Brahma Jnani, himself
will not transgress the laws and behave improperly, unless
such injunctions are not by themselves true, but merely
superstitions.  Bhagavan, though against caste and creed,
permitted separate rows for eating,  for Brahmins and others in
the Ashram.  He used to sit at the head of the middle of the
rows, for eating!  There was a lunar eclipse on an evening.
It was between 7 pm and 9 pm.   So Chinnaswami arranged for
night dinner well before 7 pm, unlike the usual time of 7.30 pm.
When the bell rang for dinner, Bhagavan noticing the early
call asked, "What is it?"  Devotees said that there is an
eclipse and all but a few moved out for dinner.  Bhagavan
did not move  and took food only at the usual time of 7.30 pm!)

Verse 55:-  Sri Suresvara says that one who pretends to be
a knower of Brahman and yet livesw without  moral restraint,
is like a god that eats unclean things.

(Naishkarmya Siddhi 6.62 of Sri Suresvara; Vedanta Sara 273)

Verse 56:-  Before knowledge you suffered only from the pain
of your own mental imperfections, but now, you suffer the
censure of the world as well.  How well is the effect of your
knowledge?

To be contd.....

Arunachala Siva.

46660
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (79)
« on: August 23, 2008, 04:28:30 PM »
The Chapter IV continues....

Verse 47:-  " A wise man, having experienced Brahman
as his Self, should keep his higher intutive faculty (Prajna),
united with Brahman.  He should not oppress his mind with
many words for they are a mere waste of energy."

(Words are pain of the tongue after realization. Sri Ramakrishna,
said, "After removing the thorn on your sole with another thorn,
you have to throw away both the thorns."

Brahadaranyaka Up. 4.4.21
Viveka Choodamani 321-325)

Verse 49:-  The duality of the mental creation of man which
is not in conformity with the scriptures, is of two kinds,
violent and dull.  That which gives rise to lust, anger and
other passions is called violent and that which gives rise to
day-dreams is called dull.

Verse 50:-  Before starting the study into the nature of Brahman,
it is necessary to give up both.  For, mental poise and
concentration, are the two pre-requisites for the study of
Brahman, so say the Sruti.

Verse 51:-  In order to achieve, and to be established in,
the state of liberation, these two must be given up.  One
who is subject to the urges of lust and other passions is
unfit for liberation in life.

To be contd....

Arunachala Siva.         

46661
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (78)
« on: August 23, 2008, 04:15:23 PM »
The Chapter IV continues....

Verse 37:-  Or, we may admit that external objects serve
little useful purpose, yet we cannot dispense with them
altogether.  In any case, cognition is concerned with the
existence of objects and not with their utility.

(Thorns serve no purpose on the road, but we cannot deny
their existence.  But their existence is experienced by us,
only when they injure your legs.)

Verse 40:-  The duality of Isvara's creation may continue,
but the non dualist, when convinced of their illusoriness
know the secondless Brahman.

(The creation is not annihilated but its unreal character is
known.  When the snake identified with rope is known to
be unreal, its substratum, rope, is known.    There are
countless stars and galaxies in the firmament, since
they are of no use to us, their unreal character is known,
but their Substratum, the Brahman is known.)

Verse 41:- When all duality disappears at the time of
dissolution of the universe, the secondless Brahman alone
remains unknown, because then, as in deep sleep, there is
no teacher, and no scripture, though there may be absence
of duality.

Verse 43:-  The world of duality created by Jiva is of two
kinds.  That which conforms to and that which does not
conform to the scriptural injunctions.  The former should
be kep in mind until Brahman is realized.

Vere 45:-  'An intelligent person, who has studied the
scripures and has repeatedly practised what they enjoin,
should renounce them after knowing  the Supreme Brahman,
just as a man throws aside a flaming torch at the end of his
journey!'

(Amrtanada  Upanishad 1)

Verse 46:-  "All intelligent person, who has studied the
scriptures  and has practised what they enjoin should
discard them after experiencing Brahman as his Self,
just as a man discards the husk when he has found the grain."

(Brahma or Amrta Bindu Upanishad 18)

(Sri Ramakrishna asked, "Who will keep the paper after
reading it,  where it is written by your mother, that you should
bring such and such a thing, while coming back from office?"
Gospel)

To be contd.....

Arunachala Siva.

46662
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (77)
« on: August 23, 2008, 03:57:07 PM »
The Chapter IV continues....

Verse 31:- So we see there are two kinds of objects,
the 'material' and the 'mental'.  The 'material' is the
object cognized by mind being modified, by the form of
the material object.  And the 'mental' is cognized by the
Witness-Consciousness, as the Jiva being affected by the
'material' coming in contact with the mind and evoking its
latent desire for enjoyment.

Verse 32:-  By the application of the double method of agreement
and difference, we come to the conclusion that it is the 'mental'
creation which causes bondage to the Jiva, for when these
'mental' objects are there, pleasure and pain are also there;
when they are not, there is no pleasure nor pain.

Verse 33:-  In dream, when external (material) objects
are absent, man is bound by the intellect  to pleasure
and pain, although outer objects are not perceived.  In
deep sleep, in a faint and in the lower Samadhi, (when the
mental functions are temporarily suspended), no pleasure
or pain is felt in spite of the proximity of outer objects.

( A Jivanmukta's faculty of perception continues but owing
to the cessation of the egoistic portion of the faculty of understanding
the percepts do not affect him by way of causing pleasure
or pain.   I feel, this has been written exactly as what Bhagavan
Ramana perceived the outerworld.  Once a lady arranged for
'bhiksha' or 'feeding' in the Ashram, and the lady arranged 32
different dishes, comprising of sweets, rice, snacks, side dishes,
seasonings, fruits, milk, curd etc.,  When all sat for lunch and
started eating each item with great relish, asking for second and
third helpings, Bhagavan, as usual, mixed everything into a single
lump and gulped!  When someone asked, why Bhagavan did not
eat each dish seperately and enjoyed each dish, He answered,
'where is the taste, where is the enjoyment?  The stomach has
to be filled up, that is all!)

Verse 34:-  A liar told a man whose son had gone to a far-off
country, that the boy was dead, although he(the boy) was still
alive.  The father believed him and was aggrieved.

Verse 35:-  If, on the other hand, his son had really died abroad,
but no news had reached him, he would have felt no grief.  This
shows that the real cause of a man's bondage is his own mental
world.

(Bhagavan has narrated this story in 'Talks' as well as in'Day by Day'.)

To be contd....

Arunachala Siva. 
           


46663
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (76)
« on: August 23, 2008, 03:31:40 PM »
The Chapter IV continues,

Verse 22:- The Jiva creates these three feelings of happiness,
disappointment or indifference with regard to gems, but the
nature of  the gems is created by Isvara remains throughout.

Verse 23:-  Through personal relationship, one and the same
woman appears differently as a wife, daughter-in-law, a
sister-in-law, a cousin and a mother.  But she herself, remains
unchanged.

Verse 28:-  Sri Sankara says that just as melted copper
assumes the form of the mould into which it is cast, so the
mind assumes the form of the object perceived by it.

(Upadesa Sahasri 14.3-4;  Brahmasutra Bhashya I.1.12.)

Verse 29:-  Or just as sunlight assumes the form of the
objects which it illumines, so the mind assumes the forms
of objects which it perceived. 

Verse 30:-  Sri Suresvara* holds:  "Out of the cognition
that the Jiva, cognition, an appropriate modification of the
mind is produced.  Thus, born, the modification proceeds
towards the object of cognition until it gets into touch
with the object, when it assumes the form of the object,
whic is known as the cognition of the object."

(*Suresvara is one of the four direct disciples of Sri Sankara,
the other thee being, Padmapada, Hastamalaka and Mandana Misra.
Suresvara is the author of Manasa-ullasa, an advaitic treatise.
This is from 3.6)

to be contd....

Arunachala Siva.       

46664
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - 75)
« on: August 23, 2008, 02:58:05 PM »
The Chapter IV continues...

Verse 12:-  Maya of the great Isvara, has likes its power of
creation, another power which includes and hides all. It is
this power which deludes the Jivas.

(Maya deludes by making the Jiva forget his nature of Brahman.
Svetastvatara Up. 4.10)

Verse 13:-  The Jiva, thus deluded to believe himself to be
powerless and identified with a body becomes subject to
grief.  Thus is described in brief the dualited created by
Isvara.

(Svetasvatara Up. 4.7. Mundaka Up. 3.2.1)

Verse 14:-  In the Saptanna Brahmana, of the Vedas, there
is a description of the duality created by the Jiva.  By action
and reflection, the Jiva creates, seven kinds of food, that is,
objects of experience.

(Brahadaranyaka Upanishad  1.5.1-5)

Dear Non duel, 'donkey' and others., The Brahmana, are a part of Vedas.  The Vedas have four divisions.  The first is Samhita, poems eulogising various gods and elements.  There is, for example, a poem euolgising
Agni, the Fire.  Max Mueller sang this in his class room in Germany.
The second part is Brahmana, which deals with sacrifices, through
fire, with singing the glories of godhead.  The third is Aranyaka,
which deals with duties to be done in forest, when the sages
go to forest for meditation.  The fourth one is called Vedanta,
which denotes Upanishads, the crisp philosphic portion.  The
Upanishads are totally secular, beyond any religion.

Verse 19:-  In the actual creation of the objects, the modifications
or functions of Maya, the power of the Lord, are the cause.  Whereas,
for the actual enjoyment of those objects it is the modifications
or functions of the inner organs of the Jivas that are responsible.

(We have already said, when a sweemeat is taken, it is the mind
which enjoys, even though the tongue tastes it!)

Verse 20:-  Objects created by Isvara, eg. gems do not alter;
they remain the same.  But gems may affect different people
according to their mental states.

(During Napolean's time, the metal, aluminium had just
then been discovered.  Everyone thought it is a great, valuable
metal and started using it as a status symbol.  Napolean had
a aluminum cradle done for his son!   Today, aluminium is
used only for jam-cans!  Of course, certain parts of aeroplane
are made out of aluminium)

Verse 21:-  One man may feel happy on obtaining a gem,
whereas another may feel disappointed at failing to obtain
it.  And a man uninterested in it, may only look on and
feel neither happy nor disappointed.

(When a sandal wood walking stick was brought by some
one to Bhagavan, as a presentation, Bhagavan just saw it
and asked people to put in the office.  He never used it.
After a few days, He presented that stick to His school mate
Rangan!  So was the fate of  silver box which was given to Him
for keeping betel leaves and nuts.) 

to be contd.....

Arunachala Siva.             

46665
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Panchadasi - (74)
« on: August 23, 2008, 02:35:03 PM »
The Chapter IV continues....

Verse 6:-  The Chandogya Upanishad says that before creation,
Brahman or the Self alone existed, and that His nature was
Pure Existence.  He desired to become manifold and created
all things including the fire, water, food and beings born of eggs,
and so forth.

(Chandogya Up. uses the word 'aikasta' meaning Brahman
saw - that is, Brhaman merely saw to it, so that all these are
created.)

Verse 7:-  The Mundaka Upanishad says that just as sparks
emanate from a blazing fire, so from the immutable Brahman,
arose different animate and inanimate beings.

(Mundaka Up. 2.1.1;  The Mundaka Up. conception is still
better, Brahman's sparks produced the world, no creating
not even 'seeing'.

Verse 8:-  It is also said that before its manifestation the world
existed in Brahman in a potential form; then assuming name
and form it came into being as Virat.

(Brahadaranyaka Up. 1.4.7.   Here, the imagery is like, as
Supernova brings forth stars, the world and beings came
from Brahman, as potential to names and forms).

Verse 9:-  From Virat, came into being the law givers, human
beings, cattle, asses, horses, goats and so on and so forth, both
male and female, down to the ants.  Thus says the Brahadaranyaka
Upanishad.)

(Brahadaranyaka Up. 1.4.4.  Here again, it is like the Bible.  The
law givers like Manu are the celestial beings, from them, the
other beings evolved.  See also Srimad Bhagavatam).

Verse 10:-  According to these Srutis, Brahman or Atman Himself,
assuming manifold forms as the Jivas entered into these bodies.
A Jiva is so called because it upholds vitality (the Pranas, the
breath) in a body. 

Verse 11:-  The substratum or the Pure Consciousness, the
subtle body and the reflection of Pure Consciousness on the
subtle body --  these three together consitute the Jiva.

to be contd....

Arunachala Siva.