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Messages - Subramanian.R

Dear Ramanaduli,

Mooladhara is said to be at the belly-button.  Both Tiruvarur and
Kanchipuram are mentioned in Sanskrit and Tamil works as
Mooladhara.  It is a centre representing Prithivi, the Earth.  I
shall separately write about the five centres, Panch Bhuta Sthala,
or temples representing the five elements.  For taking birth in
Tiruvarur or Kanchipuram, seeing Chidambaram, dying in Kasi,
and meditating on Tiruvannamalai,  Bhagavan Ramana has given
a different meaning.  I think, I have written about it recently, say,
within last one month. 

Arunachala Siva. 

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Upadesha Saram
« on: November 13, 2008, 05:16:10 PM »
Dear srkudai,

This 'incompleteness' makes a human being run around for 'completeness' externally.  Muriel James, a behvaioural scientist,
calls it Gestalt, lacking in completeness, in German.  This makes
one seek every thing outside, why even outside this world!  This
merry go round, is really misery go round.

About ordinary people, we know.  About the devotees and bhaktas,
suppose they do all sorts of good deeds, punyas, and then they go
to the Heavans.  What next.  Good food in the company of Indra and
Kubera, unlimited wealth and dancing girls.  After that?  Coming back
again into this world, when the play is over, to live life again!  Again,
heavan or hell and then the grand comeback!  These fruits of karmas,
contains the 'seed' for further action, further karmas, ad nauseum.
But liberation is state of merits and no merits, no rewards, no punishments, the Great Middle Path or the Great Meridian.

Once some Nadi-sastra expert came and told about Bhagavan Ramana.  It appears He had a lot of tapas in the previous birth and was meditating
on Siva.  But Brahma came first.  Brahma said:  Please come my child!
I shall give you heavans and a post of Indra.  Bhagavan had said:
Keep the heavans with you along with the post of Indra.  Then Vishnu
came: O please come my child to Vaikunta.  I shall give you Vaikunta,
where there are nectar and dancing girls, Rampa, Menaka, Urvasi and
Rati.  Bhagavan Ramana said:  O Vishnu, keep your Vaikunta and the
nectar and the dancing girls.  Please go away.  Then Siva appeared.
He did not offer anything to Bhagavan Ramana.  Bhagavan Ramana
did not even "see" Siva.  He merely "experienced" Him.  He merged with
Siva, the Effulgence, as one with out a second!

Vinaiyin Vilaivu Vilaivutru Vithaai
Vinaikadal Veezhndhidum Undhipara,
Veedu tharal ilai Undhipara!

The actions produce results but their seeds within, produce
further fruits.  They do not confer liberation, which is a state
beyond good and bad, beyond action and inaction, beyond
ignorance and knowledge.  It is beyond any duality.

srkudai, excellent, keep it up.

Arunachala Siva.

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Chidambaram is the body
« on: November 13, 2008, 01:37:51 PM »
Dear Ramanaduli and others,

You were asking about the concept of Chidambaram, as a human body.

Chidambara Mahatmayam, a small book of verses, explains this.
There is a beautiful translation of one passage by David Smith,
in his Dance of Siva.

The earth and the body may be said to be the same, O wise one!
The earth has a great vein, the Ida Nadi, that reaches Lanka,
There is another called Pingala that reaches the Himalayas,
And between them in the famous Sushumna,
Which reaches the middle of Tillai Vana (Chidambram),
Very extensive, it like the other two, belongs to the beautiful earth,
Which is then shaped like Purusha,
Sri Parvata is said to be like his crown,
Kedara mountain is at the forehead,
The great place called Kailash peak at the head,
O Sesha!* Varanasi, with the holy river, is between the brows,
Kurukshetra is on the chest, and Prayaga is called the navel,
While Chidambaram is in the middle of the heart,
And Kamalalya** is the Mooladhara chakra,

He who leaves this place and goes to other places,
Abandons a great jewel, he has in his hand, for a piece of glass,
The centre of that place is vast, divine, pure like Brahman,
There is O Sesha! a great holy linga named the Holy Moolasthana.
To the south of it, not far away there is a mighty hall, named the
It is wonderful, the Source of all good things,
In it, I perform my invariable Dance of Bliss!

(* Adisesha is addressed by Siva.  ** Tiruvarur.)

Kovil Puranam, sings like this:

A permanent hall, unseen,
By the Vedas, which surround it,
There, we dance for ever.  So said
The Lord who takes us as His slaves,
Because the Hall of the Space of Wisdom is eternal,
It will not pass away with the things of Maya,
It will continue forever,
If the souls do countless tapas,
And receive the hard won eye of Permanent Wisdom,
They will see the dance,
Those who do not get to see it,
Will be reborn again and again.

Kunchitanghristavam, Verse 3 sings:

This Hall is formed out of the letters of the alphabet,
From the base plinth to the golden stones,
And in it there are,
Brahma, Vishnu, Rudra, Mahesvara,
And the five headed Sadasiva, above with Amba,
And on the wall,
The Lord of the Chit Sabha is dancing,
His many deeds are praised,
By the five elements, the six sciences,
And the four Vedas,
Each manifest in the form of pillars,

I worship,
Him who gives limitless Bliss,
whose foot is curved.

(Source:  The Dance of Siva, David Smith, Cambridge University
Press, Cambridge, UK.)

Arunachala Siva.     

Sakkiya Nayanar, one of the 63 saints, was from Tiru Changa Mangai,
a village in Tamil Nadu.  He was born in an aristocratic agricultural
family.  He was sent to Kanchipuram to study Buddhism and realize
the Truth.  He lived with Buddhist monks, in the university* in
Kanchipuram.  Soon he found out that Buddhistic principles did not
take him anywhere near the Truth.  Then he studied secretly Saiva
Siddhantam and found that Siva Jnana could take him to the Truth.
He went everyday to a street temple before food, and flung stones
towards Siva Linga as if these were flowers!  Because of his devout
intention, Siva accepted these stones as flowers!  Soon, the monks
understood the ways of Sakkiya Nayanar and rushed towards him with
swords to kill him.  Sakkiya Nayanar clung to Siva Linga and prayed
intently Siva and He came with his bhuta ganas, fought the monks
and took him to His Abode!

One later devotee later sang like this:

O Siva, one fellow flung KAL at you, (KAL - Stones - Sakkiya Nayanar.)
Another fellow used to VIL at your, (VIL - Bow and arrow - Arjuna)
One another, flung SOL at you, (SOL - angry abusive words - Sundara
A fouth fellow used PAL for your worship (PAL - teeth to bite the animal
                                        flesh - Hunter Kannappa)
O!  You graced them, no doubt, people call you a mad cap!)

(Source:  Periya Puranam - Tamil Verses - Saiva Siddhanta Book
Publishing House, Chennai.)

Periya Puranam, an epic of 4000 verses was written by Sekkizhar,
and was read out in Chidambaram, under the aegis of Anabhaya Chozhan.  When Sekkizhar prayed for Siva's Grace, for starting
the epic, in Chidambaram. Nataraja, Siva. gave the first word to
start the epic, by the sound, Ulahelaam..... meaning, All this world!)

Arunachala Siva.     

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Upadesha Saram
« on: November 13, 2008, 12:06:40 PM »
Dear Dr. Raju,

The Sun and the Lotus example is quite excellent and apt.  Events do happen, as per God's Will or plan.  Of course, we introduce the concept
of Maya for such activities.  But it is God, who gives fruits.  The
planetary movements, dasa, bhukti, gochara and other caclulations
of astrology are there who think that they can 'do'.  For those, who
trust that God 'does', these things do not matter.  Sri RK used to
say:  The almanac says that it will rain today.  But it will rain only
when God wills it.  By crushing the almanac, one does not get even
one drop of water!

Arunachala Siva.

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Tiruchendur Tirup Pugazh
« on: November 13, 2008, 11:52:26 AM »
Tiruchendur is a coasal town, with a very good Skanda temple,
almost on the southern tip of India.  It is where, as per Puranas,
Skanda killed Sura Padma, on the Skanda Sashti day in the month
of Karitkai.

The verse of Saint Arunagiri Natha reads like this:

My stomach stooped, my hairs became white like cotton,
My teeth started moving and falling, my back became hunchback!
My lips started hanging with saliva, I was walking with a stick!
The young girls were asking:  Who is the old guy?" and laughed!
The cough came often like roar of the sea uninterruptedly,
The words started failing, the eyes became dull and blind, the ears
   became hard of hearing!
The disease became elusive to the doctor who said: What can I do?
The sons are asking:  "What is your bank balance? what are your
The wife is falling on my body and crying, the god of death is waiting!
The urine and excreta are flowing without stop, the life is burning out!
O Skanda, You should come at least now on your peacock swiftly,
The Son of Siva!  who wears, crescent moon, serpent and Ganga!
O Kumara! on the coast of Tiruchendur, where waves are roaring!

(Source: Tirup Pugazh, Tamil Songs, Tiruppugazh Devotees Group,
New Delhi.  Translation, my own.)

Arunachala Siva.

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Sri Ramana Chenni Pathu
« on: November 13, 2008, 11:39:30 AM »
Sri Ramana Chenni Pathu, is a composition by Murugnar, in Sri
Ramana Sannidhi Murai, and it contains 10 verses.

Verse 2 reads like this:

Like eating the stale rice without the ghee, I was reading
    the scriptures, which proclaim false truths, which have no meaning. 
The Lord, Venkata, took hold of me and ruled me, this lowly dog
     eradicating all my doubts,
He is beyond even praise of Vedas, which do not proclaim its shame,
I want to place my head on his lotus like feet, which is Truth, and
      be blissful.

Verse 4 reads like this:

The god of Arunachala, Ramana, who could not be seen even
    by Brahma who travelled in swan and Vishnu who went as a boar,
He is the god of the South, Venkata who dwells in my mind happily,
Even the Vedas stutter to praise him, he is of feet like lotus,
I shall wear his golden feet on my head, and shall have bliss and glory!

(Source:  Sri Ramana Sannidhi Murai, 1998 Tamil edition, Muruganar,
Sri Ramansramam, Tiruvannamalai.  Translation, my own.)

Arunachala Siva. 

General topics / Decad of the head
« on: November 13, 2008, 11:27:47 AM »
Chenni Pathu or the Decad of the Head, is a composition of Saint
Manikkavachagar, in Tiruvachakam.  The composition consists
of 10 verses and was sung in Tirup Perundurai.

Verse 1 reads like this:

The god of gods, the true Protector, the Lord of Tirup Perundurai,
The god who cannot be comprehended even by the three gods*   
                                                      and is the Form of Bliss,
No one can comprehend Him, excepting his true devotees and
                                                       is the Form of Effulgence,
I want to place my head on his pure lotus like feet and be blissful.

(* three gods, Brahma, Vishnu and Rudra.)

Verse 3 reads like this:

O girls look at me, our Lord, who has taken hold of us,
The Lord of Tirup Perundurai, surrounded with gardens and
                                     orchards, our Master, the true Protector,
He shall take away the bangles from our hands*, and also
                                      our life but he will do the work given to him!**
I want to place my head on his pure lotus like feet and be blissful.   

(* taking away the bangles from our hands, imply that we, the girls
  have become lean due to our separation from him, and the bangles
  had slided!  It also means Siva's holy divine play in Madurai, where
  he came as a bangle seller and was touching, putting and taking away
  the bangels of women!   ** He will do the work given to him, he will
  be our servant, as he did in case of Manikkavachagar, when Siva
  came as a horse trader bringing horses for the Pandya King.)

(Source:  Tiruvachakam, Tamil, Saiva Siddhanta Book Publishing House,
Chennai.  Translation, my own.) 

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Miracles do happen
« on: November 13, 2008, 11:08:06 AM »
When Bhagavan Ramana was on the Hills, one day, he had no
appetite, and so he wanted to fast the whole day.  He started
doing around the Hills.  Suddenly around 12 noon, seven village
ladies, who appeared to have come for picking twigs and leaves,
came in front of Him and wanted to have some water.  Bhagavan
Ramana showed the spring nearby and he even picked water and
poured it on the hands.  After washing face and drinking, they sat
for food and asked Bhagavan to partake.  Each one gave a portion
from their gunny bags and Bhagavan Ramana had his stomach full.
Then, He proceeded further to walk, thinking that his stomach has
become more than full.  Around 3 pm, the women appeared again,
before Him and sat for food and literally compelled Him to partake.
They gave again some rice and curry and He looked their bags.
They were all empty.  They had not come to pick leaves and twigs
but to feed Him!  He was wondering about the incident.  The devotees
say that these seven women are Seven Virgins, the assistants of Unnamulai!  As if this was not adequate, Manavasi Ramaswami Iyer
came to Bhagavan Ramana, around 6 pm with two large mangoes
boiled in rasam, think pepper gravy.  He had to eat them too!

This incidentally, srkudai, speaks about the first verse of Upadesa
Saram.  Good acts produce results that are not apprehensible,
even for Bhagavan Ramana!

From that day, Bhagavan decided not to plan anything even about

Arunachala Siva.   

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Upadesha Saram
« on: November 13, 2008, 10:52:45 AM »
Dear srkudai,

I gave the example of Lakshmana Sarma's naturopathy adventure.
Major Chadwick, I already wrote about it, had written an English
translation of Complete Works of Bhagavan Ramana, and was almost
ready to have it approved by Bhagavan Ramana and published.  On
the last day, he found that plans were already afoot to publish Osborne's
translation.  He simply submitted the manuscript to Bhagavan Ramana,
and continued his self enquiry, without any further emotions.  Good
acts producing bad results or no results.

Arunachala Siva.  

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Upadesha Saram
« on: November 13, 2008, 10:45:37 AM »
Dear srkudai and others,

I am giving my view on the actions per se, not the doership.

Actions can be classified into four types.  There could be other
classifications too.

Good acts produce Good results.  But here it does not stop, it
further produces anything good or bad.  It is like stereochemistry
of alkaloids and terpenes, complex organic chemical products,
which produce innumerable chains of other compounds.  Take
Ravana.  He did good acts of Siva tapas.  He got kingship of Lanka.
But this good result did not stop here.  He abducted Sita and got into
trouble.  So the results are ad naseum spreading.  Hence the good
acts, "kartur" is Jada.  Only God to decide.  It is God who decides as the Master.  One more funny example here.  Lakshmana Sarma, WHO,
who wrote his commentary on Sad Darsanam, was a naturopathist.
He prescribed 21 days fast for a young boy who was deaf.  He was
confident of curing him but the boy instead of getting cured, died
of starvation!  

Good acts bad produce bad results.  I shout at my son for smoking.
He stops smoking, but later I come to know that he smokes stealthily
without any one's knowledge.  Good acts produce bad results!

Bad acts produce good results.  The permissive sex in society caused
AIDS, and the permissiveness somewhat stopped.  Now, if medicine is found for AIDS, it may be a good result. But that medicine, would re-start the permissive sex, because of the safety it assures!

Bad acts produce bad results.  There are innumerable examples.
Not reading well, the student fails in examination.  But the same
student, will divert his attention from studies and will become a great
painter or a cinema actor!  Bill Gates was a school drop out.  Today,
he is the richest man on the globe.  Most of the Hindi and Tamil cinema
actors were school drop outs.  

So the acts and fruits are not predictable.  The concept of sin and
heavan, hell etc., are all not predictable.  Only God should decide
what should be the fruit and not actions per se.

Karmam payan taral, kartanadhu anaiayaal,
Karmam kaduvuluo undhipara, karmam Jadamathal undhipara.

(The Tamil version is for those Tamil knowing people,  who do not have the book.)

Arunachala Siva.      

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Self-Enquiry-Daily life
« on: November 13, 2008, 10:28:29 AM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

Yes the life is a river with two banks.  The water is ever flowing,
thoughts, actions, regrets, happiness etc., etc., The thoughts
about yesterday, either good or bad, and anxieties about tomorrow,
what will happen, what will happen, etc., etc., are its two banks.
Like flowing water, nothing is permanent.  Only the Grace of Guru,
which is a rock or a boat, can make us steady in life.

Arunachala Siva.

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: The art of Self Enquiry
« on: November 13, 2008, 10:23:53 AM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

The mind and its activity, viz., imagination is not unlimited.  It is
very much limited, in terms of time and space.

Time:  You cannot imagine anything in deep sleep.  Hence it is limited
in time.

Space:  After seeing pictures of moon's surface after moon landing
took place in 1969, one can imagine the moon.  But how can you
imagine Andremada Galaxy, from which light is yet to come to earth!
Earth is 3 billion years old.  The light from Andremada Galaxy has not
come in spite of lapse of 3 million years.  How far that galaxy should
be?  Can you imagine its surface, size, structure etc.,?

Hence mind and imagination are limited in time and space.

Arunachala Siva.

General topics / Re: The difference in between doing and being
« on: November 13, 2008, 09:35:59 AM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

That state of "not expressing" anything, is Being.  Expression implies
dualism. Being or Experiencing is non dual.  Vedas proclaim that
the words go and come back failing, and that is the state of Brahman.

Arunachala Siva. 

Dear Ramanaduli,

Appar (Tiru Navukkarasar), Sundaramoorthy, Jnana Sambandhar,
these three are amongst 63 devotees of Siva.  These are called
Nayanmars.  They might have lived around 6th and 7th century
AD, before Sri Sankara.  Manikkavachagar is not one of these 63
saints.  They are several theories on this exclusion.  Some say, that
he preached Jnana marga and so he was not included.  Some others
say that he practised Advaita and not Saiva Siddhanta and so he was
not included.  No theories have beeen finally proved.  His date is also
under question.  Some say that he lived before the three, sometime in
4th century AD.  Some say that he lived after these, around 8th
century AD.  His exclusion from the list and his date have no final
conclusions.  One Swami Vedachalam, Marai Malai Adigal, have
written a detailed book on Manikkavachagar's period, without
concluding anything!  One more interesting this is that Manikkavachagar
does not say anything about the others in his poems and vice versa.

Saint Poet Muruganar considered himself as Manikkavachagar, and
treated Bhagavan Ramana as Siva.  His Sri Ramana Sannidhi Murai,
is almost toally on the lines of Tiruvachakam.

Arunachala Siva.