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Messages - Subramanian.R

44581
The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Self-Enquiry-Daily life
« on: November 10, 2008, 11:09:09 AM »
Dear Marcus,

The daily life has got a beginning and an end and is impermanent.
But Life, Eternal Life, is Eternal, beyond space and time.

The life of a living being clings to the individual soul, which is nothing
but the Self but deluded by Maya, appearances of world and personal
gods.  The individual soul identifies itself as the Self, when the play
is over, if appearances are removed by self enquiry.

Arunachala Siva. 

44582
General topics / Re: mahamudra meditation
« on: November 10, 2008, 11:05:05 AM »
Dear mai chop gohok,

The Brahmins in the Asram did Pooja because it was the custom
amongst Hindus, to do pooja for the cows, any new starting ceremony
for constructions, or to the Siva Linga in Mathrubhutesvarar Temple,
Mother's Samadhi.  You can take it that Bhagavan Ramana did tolerate
all non-objectionable practices and He also did not stop them.  His
way was a way to Atma and He did not have any quarrel with any
religion.  As I told you last evening, every pathfinder should have
a basic platform of his own religion, to start with.  Bhagavan Ramana
did not start any new religion, but only showed a new path, which had
gathered dust and cactus, after Gaudapada and Sankara.  But He
would have definitely objected to any prohibitive ways of worship
or sacrifice.

For example, no body dared to come to His Asram and say that
he would  follow the Veera Marga of Sakta Tantra, a worship to
Godhead in the pose of union with a woman!  Mind you, this
is an accepted practice of Hindu religion and perhaps Osho came
very near to this system.  He did not approve animal sacrifices too.
He was against caste and creed, but there were two separate rows for brahmins and non brahmins in lunch hall and He was sitting in
the middle of the two rows.  This shows, He did not approve caste
practices, but tolerated the practices of other brahmins.

As regards, mahamudra, I never said that He would have objected to that
meditation if some Buddhists had come and practised it in the Old Hall.
He would have tolerated that, and for that matter, any practice, which
was not vulgar and objectionable in the normal sense of the term.

But the fact remains He was beyond Hinduism and any such religions,
which had, in course of time, contaminated the philosophy of Pure
Enquiry and Self Knowledge.

Arunachala Siva.     

44583
General topics / Re: Blessings
« on: November 10, 2008, 10:46:38 AM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

Your view may also be correct.

The Hindu religion believes in the theory of individual salavation.
Each one, has to work out for himself or herself, the way to
liberation through his/her own self enquiry or devotion.  There is
no group salvation in Hinduism.  A group of people may together
reach Heavens in other religions like "group tourism"!   But this
is not the way in Hinduism.  Instances of group salvation is very
rare in Hinduism, in certain stories.  For example, for Jnana
Sambandhar attained in Moksha as soon as he got married in
Tirunallut Peru Manam, not only he and his wife but also all the
guests who came to the wedding are said to have attained liberation!

I have not heard any other stories on this type.

Hence, it is WHO AM I? and not Who are we?

Arunachala Siva.   

44584
Dear Ramanaduli,

Natanam is the common name for the dances of man and woman.
If it is man's dance, it is called Tandavam and if it is woman's
it is called Lasyam.  Sri Lalita Tripurasundari is called as Lasya
Priya in Lalita Sahasranamam.

The man, the demon, under Nataraja's right foot is Muyalakan,
or Apasmaran. Apasmaram is nothing but madness, the madness
of the ego!

The right foot of Nataraja is called Kunchitam, which means either
raised foot or curved foot.  This is the place of Moksha for devotees.

The dancing with a change in foot is in Madurai, which is Silver
Sabha.  This dance was for the sake of one devotee, perhaps it is
Manikkavachagar.

Arunachala Siva.

44585
General topics / Re: The Lotus
« on: November 10, 2008, 10:34:51 AM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

You are correct. Sahasrara is a thousand petalled lotus, whose
stem originates from Mooladhrara.  Mooladhara is referred to as
a root of the lotus flower.  Please see Sri Soundarya Lahari meaning
for more elaboration.

Arunachala Siva.

44586
Saiva Siddhantis always chanted Namasivaya mantra, by rotating
the syllables five times.  This has been given by Saint Arunagiri Natha,
in one of his Tiruvannamalai Tiruppugazh.

The poem reads like this:

Jaya Jaya Arunadhri, Si va ya na ma,
Jaya Jaya Arunadhri, Ma si va ya na,
Jaya Jaya Arunadhri, Na ma si va ya,
Jaya Jaya Arunadhri, ya na ma si va,
Jaya Jaya Arunadhri, va ya na ma si,

Jaya Jaya Arunadhri, Siv va ya na ma,
By changing like this, and keeping my eyes on the Hills,
   chanting Sarnadhri and melting in my heart,
Jaya Jaya Guru bhagyam, this is, shall I drink the ocean of bliss,
Jaya Jaya Arunadhri, so saying, the Sages,
Have got their karmas powdered in a trice.

O Vela,who burnt the demons who stood like mountains!

When the two competed to see your head and feet,
Dashing their hopes, you stood as a large column of effulgence,*
And taught the Pranava to that column of effulgence,
Jaya Jaya Arunadhri, when the devotees chant like this,
You cancelled the karmas, and danced in the Space as effulgence.*

She stood as a parrot and you drank  sweet nectar from her lips,
The huntress**, whom you married and stayed in
The Arunadhri, happily, O golden god!

*As I posed earlier, Arunagiri Natha does not distinguish between
Siva and Skanda. ** Valli, the huntress girl.

(Source: Tiruppugazh, Tamil, Tiruppugazh Devotees Group,
    New Delhi.  Prose explanation, my own.)

Arunachala Siva.   

44587
General Discussion / Re: imprtance of Sat sangha
« on: November 09, 2008, 03:08:28 PM »
Dear Matthias,

It is not silly.  This could be one way of quietening the mind.

Muruganar, the famous poet-devotee of Bhagavan Ramana used
to go out to the open ground within the Asram and just look at
the sky at early nights.  These were not, mind you, full moon days!
He just looked the sky to get piece.  This could be, what Buddhists
call, 'one hand clapping!'

Bobby Fisher, the famous chess player, who defeated Boris
Spassky and got the world championship crown in Iceland,
asked for a room without balcony and without the sight of
swimming pool, closed the door and simply looked at the door
or the wall, to quieten his mind or concentrate his mind!

Arunachala Siva.   

44588
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Sri Ramana Vazha Pathu
« on: November 09, 2008, 01:09:17 PM »
Decad on desire of not willing to live, in Sri Ramana Sannidhi
Murai, is a compositon of Muruganar with 10 verses.

Verse 3 reads like this:

I have no desire excepting for your Feet, O Primordial,
   I have no other desire you know,
O Venkata, you ruled me this lowly wastrel, O Effulgence
   of the great Arunachala!
I want to think only your in a thoughtless state like
   other great devotees,
I have no desire to live with logicians and the learned,
   I have no desire of willing to live, please call me and grace me!

Verse 5 reads like this:

O I have no desire excepting for your feet, O consort of
     Uma, with feet like silk cotton,
O Venkata, you ruled me saying Do not fear, O Effiulgence
     of the great Arunachala!
I want to contemplate only your lotus feet, please make me
     steadfast in that, and grace me,
I have no desire to live in delusion with scoundrels of this
     world, I have no desire of williong to live, please call me and
     grace me!

(Source: Sri Ramana Sannidhi Murai, 1998 edition, Tamil,
   Sri Ramansramam. Translation my own.)

Arunachala Siva.

44589
Vazha Pathu, or Decad on desire of not willing to live, is a
composition of ten verses in Tiruvachakam, by Saint Poet
Manikkavachagar. 

Verse 3 reads like this:

I have no desire other than to sing your Feet which are not
    yet found by Vishnu who praised you,
You searched for me and took hold of me, O King of Sivapura!
    the resident of Tiru Perundurai, Siva,
I  can only quarrel with you or like you and unite with you,
      You have promised you to make me comprehend you,
I am getting withered, I have no desire of willing to live,
      please come and grace me by calling me!

Verse  5 reads like this:

O the consort of Uma with words like music, I have no
    other desire other than your golden feet,
You have ruled me with determination, O King of Sivapura!
      the resident of Tiru Perundurai, Siva,
I can only keep my mind, body, mouth, nose, ears and eyes on you!
I have no desire of willing to live on this earth,
     plese come and grece me by calling me!

(Source: Tiruvachakam, Tamil, Manikkavachagar, Saiva
   Siddhanta Book Publishing House, Chennai. Translation, my own.)

Arunachala Siva. 

44590
Dear Ramanaduli and others,

As per Ramanaduli's request, I have covered 5 Sabhas and 7 Dancing
Centres.  I shall now give you the eight punishing centres, of Siva.

1.  Tiru Kandiyur - near Thanjavur - Where Brahma's one of the
                                                               heads was snapped.

2. Tiru Kovalur -  near Chennai - Andhakasura was killed.

3. Tiru Adigai - Triupura Samhara.

4. Tiu Pariayalur - Daksha Samhara.

5. Tiru Virkudi - Jalandhasura Samhara.

6. Vazhuvur - famous for Vazhvur Ramaiah Pillai, a Bharata Natya
                           teacher -  Gaja Samhara - The killing of the elephant sent
                          by Daruka sages.

7.  Tiru Kurukkai - Manmatha Samhara.

8.   Tiru Kadavur - Yama being kicked.  This is the famous Abhirami
                                      temple.

Arunachala Siva.

44591
Sapta Vitanga Sthala or the Seven Dancing Centres of Nataraja,
are those centres where Siva made a specific form of dancing.
These 7 centres are different from 5 Sabhas.  Here, Siva or
Natraja are said to be self-appearing and not made by a sculptor,
using hammer and tong!

These 7 centres are:

1. Tiruvarur - Ajabha Natanam.

2. Tirunallar - (the famous temple for Saturn!) - Unmatta Natanam.
                                                                                         (Mad Dance)

3. Tiru Nakai Koranam - Paravara Dharanga Natanam.

4. Tiru Karayil - Kukkuta Natanam (Kukkuta - Cock)

5. Tiru Kolili - Bhrunga Natanam - (Bhrunga was a Siva Yogi)

6. Tiru Voimoor - Kamala Natanam

7. Tirumarai Kadu - Vedaranyam - Hamsapada Natanam.

(Source: A pilgrimage to Tirumuai Temples - that is temples,
           covered by Saiva Canons.  Tamil. Old book!)

Arunachala Siva.   

44592
Dear Ramanaduli and others,

There are 5 places or courts in which Nataraja danced and these
are called Pancha Sabhas.  I am sorry.  This is different from the
7 places where Nataraja had specific dance forms in each of these
places.  Nataraja is always seen in a dancing pose, but these 5
Sabhas and 7 Dancing places are different.

The 5 Sabhas are:

Kanaka Sabha or Golden Court - Chidambaram.  Nataraja Temple.
Rathaja Sabha or Silver Court - Madurai.  Somasundara Temple.
Sembu Sabha or Copper Court -Tirunelveli.  Nellai Appar Temple.
Ratna Sabha or Ruby Court - Tiru Alangadu, near Chennai. Vata Aranya
                                                      Isvarar Temple, attached to Tiruttani.
Chitra Sabha or Mural Court - Kuttralam, near Courtallam Falls.-
                                                       Kutralesvasrar Temple, Tenkasi.

Arunachala Siva.

44593
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Umapati Sivam
« on: November 09, 2008, 11:53:43 AM »
Umapati Sivam, is from a special priest class, (Dishitars) of
Chidambaram, who are only supposed to touch the Natraja metal
icon and do poojas in Chidambram.  They are very very orthodox
people, well read in Sanskrit and Tamil.  Umapati Sivam was doing
pooja for Nataraja six times a day, each time, bathing, wearing
new dhotis and upper cloth, having holy ashes and travelling in
a planquin from his home to the Temple.  Four servants used to
be going with the palanquin with firebrands on their hands on
four sides of the palanquin as a mark of respect.  People coming
from opposite directions would give way for the palanquin.

Umapati Sivam inspite of his high position, his learning was restless
in his life and thought he cannot attain liberation.  One day, when
he was travelling on the palanquin for a Noon Pooja, there appeared
one mad cap on the way and the pall bearers asked him to go away.
He looked at Umapati Sivam and exclaimed:  "On a dead corpse, is
travelling a corpse, which is not yet dead!  And it is day-blind, it is
day blind!"

Umapati Sivam on hearing these words, jumped out of the palanquin,
and ran after that madcap!  He was also running fast and Umapati
Sivam was chasing him.  Finally they reached a village outside the
town, where the weavers were speareding the yarn on the streets,
and applying hot fluid of rice flour and water, (starch) to make the
yarn stiffer.  Some pots were on the fire, with rice flour fluid boiling.


The madcap stopped there.  Umapati Sivam knelt down in front of him.
The mad cap drowned his hand on the boiling fluid in the pot, took
a handful and gave it to Umapati Sivam.  Sivam took it in his cupped
hands and drank the hot liquid!  He became the disciple of the madcap.
The mad cap is Arul Nandi Sivam.  Both Arul Nandi Sivam and Umapati
Sivam became later the two great exponents of Saiva Siddhantam,
and wrote a commentary called Siva Jnana Siddhi for Siva Jnana Bodham.

What does dead corpe mean?  It means the bamboo sticks from the
bamboo tree, which is dead, and which is used for making palanquins.
Umapati was travelling on a dead corpse.  He is not yet dead, because
he is not liberated.  He is day blind because torches were burning
in the noon.   

Arunachala Siva.   

44594
Ashrams / Re: How To Get To Tiruvanamalai From Trichy Airport
« on: November 09, 2008, 11:39:07 AM »
Dear Janet,

Yes. Local city cabs and cabs for long distance can accommodate
five persons, excluding the driver.  You have to speak English,
there is no other go.  But beware of excess fare.  Travel in the
day time.

Arunachala Siva.   

44595
Dear Ramanaduli,

Bhagavan Ramana is a different fish.  We cannot compare ourselves
with Him.  But do not worry, for most of us, during extreme emtions
of pain or even happiness, the mind starts playing its game and you
cannot watch the mind and be quiet.  Whether it is a car accident
or your son bringing a nice chocolate, the mind always jumps for its
own play.  Even a third party 'happening' gives us joy or pain as per
the whimsies of the mind.  Even Barack Obama won the US elections,
my son telephoned from HK, my niece telephoned from Boston,
my wife was watching NDTV and I also enjoyed.  At that time,
one cannot say: "For whom is this victory?  Is it for Obama? Is it
for me?  If it is for me, who am I?  I am not the mind."  This
utter neutrality in emtions will come only in due course, and not
immeditately.  It does not mean, that you should be like a dud.
Definitely not.  One should go past these emtions, and this will take
time.  Only Bhagavan Ramana's will make it swifter, through His Grace.
if we have 'arrived' and we are 'ready'.  Thereafter, we shall still
have the emtions, like a mirror reflecting the joys and miseries outside.
But the mirror does not shed tears!

Arunachala Siva.