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Messages - Subramanian.R

Yesterday, I wrote about how to do without thinking etc.,
in some other context.  I also said it is like the Dance of the
Unmoving, Achala Rachitam from Viswanatha Swami's

Devaraja Mudaliar writes in his entry of 25th Jan 1946,
in his Day by Day.

Today Lokammal sang the songs of Manikkavachagar's
Tiru Kazhu Kundra Padigam.  In verse 4 of that Padigam,
it is said, " being ashamed without being ashamed"
"NaNoNathathor NaNameyidi...."  Bhagavan Ramana said
that it might be one of those poetic expressions, like
Nadaamal Naadi and Ninaiyamal Ninainthu.... "Seeking without
seeking and thinking without thinking..." How to seek without
seeking, how to think without thinking?  These are all the
ways of saying [by poets].  There is no other way of saying."

I checked up with my copy of Tiruvachakam by K. Subramania
Pillai.  There was no light at all.  Muruganar thereupon said
that Manikkavachagar writes such allusive poems.  In
Neethal Vinnappam written in Uttara Kosa Mangai, he talks
about sixty four yakshas getting the eightfold gunas from
Siva.  This story of Uttarakosa Mangai does not seem to have
been published. It appears that many things in Saint
Manikkavachagar's life and many saying or songs would be
better elucidated if one could get a book of Tiru ViLaiyadal
Puranam which can explain all these.

Bhagavan got the book of Tiru ViLaiyadal Puranam, but the
story was not there.

(Source: As indicated above)

Arunachala Siva.

Suri Nagamma writes in her letter of 23rd Jan 1946.

Sometime back while replying to the questions of some
devotees, Bhagavan was reminded of a sloka in Hamsa
Gita, which describes the attributes of a Siddha with great
enthusiasm, wrote out a verse in Tamil. [This is the verse
describing a Jnani's concern for body, as a drunkard concern
for his clothes].  Balarama Reddiar who was present there
asked: What about a verse in Telugu?  Bhagavan then
wrote a verse in Telugu in Aataveladi [ a form of verse]
and was wondering whether the import of the Sanskrit
and Tamil slokas had come out correctly.  I suggested
in a low tone that it might perhaps be better if it were in
Theta Gita [another form of Telugu verse].  Bhagavan
thereupon said: "Yes, it could be changed thus." He quickly
changed that and said  "That is Aata and this is Theta."

I was rather intrigued by that saying.  I was wondering
whether His Theta Gita, even though is perfectly metrical,
conveys the meaning in a smooth flowing manner.  However,
I was happy that Bhagavan had written it and kept quiet.
In the afternoon, I told Bhagavan: "In whatever ways,
Bhagavan writes it is good."  Bhagavan Ramana said: "It         
is quite enough if one person is satisfied when written
by an unqualified person like myself!"  People around
burst into laughing!

He says he is not learned and all the other writers are
great Pandits!  What else is it, except a mild reproach
to some of us who pride ourselves on our erudition?   

[Our Telugu friends can pick up this Telugu verse and
write in the Forum. I think it is available in the English
translation of Letters from Sri Ramanasramam.]

(Source: As indicated above)

Arunachala Siva.

Devaraja Mudaliar writes in his entry of 24th Jan 1946.

Gokul Bhai read out the Gujarati "Ramana Gita", Chapter XI
and then the Gujarati Upadesa Saram.  In this context,
P.C. Desai asked Bhagavan:  "In Verse 14, they have
translated the second line of Sanskrit verse as "If the
mind is continuously fixed on meditation of the Self, etc.,
Is that all right, seeing that neither 'continously' nor 'Self'
is found in the original?

Bhagavan:  Eka Chintana involves continuous thought. If
no other thought is to come, the one thought has to be
continuous.  What is meant by the verse is as follows:
The previous verses have said that for controlling the mind,
breath control or pranayama may be helpful. This verse says
that the mind so brought under control or the state of "laya"
should not be allowed to be in mere "laya" or state like sleep
[or stupor], but that it should be directed towards Eka
Chintana or one thought whether that one thought is of
the Self, the Ishta Devata or a mantra.  What one thought
is, will depend on each man's "pakva" or fitness.  The
verse leaves it as one thought.

(Source: As indicated above)

Arunachala Siva.

Dear amiatall,

Excellent.  All thinking and all doing are the plays of the
mind.  We are always That, as you have correctly said.
Then why god creates the mind?  The individual soul,
as long as it does not cease thinking and doing, it does
actions good or bad and accumulates merit and demerit.
The realization is the point where there is zero merit
and zero demerit.  So the individual soul with its mind/body
complex, takes birth again and again due to this knapsack
of merits and demerits.  If you do a lot of good, and perhaps
no bad, then you end up in Heaven, which is only a temporary
abode as per Hindu theology.  Heaven is not LIBERATION.
Heaven is a prize and afterwards, you come back to the
earth.  If you do a lot of bad, and perhaps no good, then
you end up in Hell.  Hell is not a permanent punishment.
It is only a punishment centre from which you come back
to the earth, to start your game.  When both good and bad
become zero, there is LIBERATION, or Self Realization.

Since there is zero goodness and zero badness of deeds,
it is presupposition, that your mind is not at all
active or is dead.  Death of mind is liberation.  Mano Nasam
is Moksham.  This is exactly what Bhagavan Ramana says.
Till such time, the mind carries the prana and leaves the body
because the body is totally soiled is not fit to occupy!

Arunachala Siva.

General topics / Re: Fear is good or bad
« on: June 11, 2009, 10:53:51 AM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

Fear for each and everything in life is not advised by
elders.  But fear to commit sin should be there, to help
us avoid us sins as far as practicable.  Fear to God, which
is called bhaya-bhakti is recommended by elders.  Fear
to God along with devotion to him makes us get attached
to him and surrender to his golden feet at the end.  Fear
comes out of respect for him, like a servant towards the
king, who salutes when king comes near.  Why?  The
king is powerful and he can punish you.  God is the most
powerful being and therefore, devotion mixed with fear
for him is advised by elders.  This fear goes off after sometime,
when bhakti becomes total.

Ingersoll was an atheist.  He was in his death bed.  The
priests came to his bedside to give some holy water, as per
Christian practices, and also to read a verse from Bible.
Ingersoll did not object to it and he is reported to have
said:  All along I did not believe in God, and I was even
abusing him.  Now I believe that if there is a God, he will
punish me.  Perhaps I have erred throughout my life.
Christian priest said:  Do not worry.  Atleast now you are
seeking retribution, he will surely forgive you!"

Arunagiri Nathar says:  "I have committed countless sins.
Taking many many births, Brahma is tired of giving me
fresh births, and Yama is tired of giving me deaths.  The
jackal and the vulture have become tired of eating my
burning flesh in the cremation ground.  Let me first be
afraid of you then be devoted to you, so that you can
save me and place me at your feet, O Muruga."

Arunachala Siva. 

General topics / Re: On being serious
« on: June 10, 2009, 01:02:32 PM »
Dear Nagaraj,

I was also thinking about this "experiencer" and the "experienced", for a long time.  This implies duality --
was my stand also.  We have heard and read that the
Self is Is.  The Self is one without second and the self
does not move, expereince etc., etc.,  Once during my
visit to Tiruvannamalai, I asked about this to one of the
permament inmates.  He immediately asked me to go
through the Invocatory Verse of Sri Ramana Ashottaram.
The Ashottaram has got one invocatory verse in Sanskrit
and two more Sanskrit verses as Benediction.  The latter
two have been made into Tamil by Bhagavan Himself.
The Invocatory Verse reads:

Arunachala hruthspoorthi swarupanugramatmane
Namo Bhagavate dhrashtre ramanaya nirantharam.

"Namaskarams to Sri Bhagavan Ramana, who is the Witness
for everything, in my heart continually, to Him, to who
is the Effulgence of Arunachala in Heart, as His nature
and grace.

Nature and Grace.... Grace is from His compassion.  Compassion is the nature of the Self.  The Self is the natural state of
Bhagavan Ramana who showers compassion.  I think here,
the compassion/grace is "the experienced."  The Self is
the "experiencer."  Both are in Heart.  It is also called
Sannidhi, Presence.  People say that Sugar cannot itself
taste its sweetness.  This is the Advaita bala pata.  But
here the Sugar's Presence emits grace.  It is like Sun and
its shining rays.

There is one name in Ashottaram. Om Sri Rachitala Tandavaya
Namah.  Rachit means movement, dance.  How can Achalam,
non-moving can move or dance?  Viswanatha Swami says:
Achalam is poornam without anything outside. Its dance
is the anubhava sphuranam of the poornam.  This is
Swabanubhuti.  Viswanatha Swami categorically adds:
Here there is no duality of experiencer and experienced.

Arunachala Siva.   

Suri Nagamma writes 20th Jan 1946:

Two three years back when Bhagavan had jaundice, He
could not relish his food and felt a great dislike for food.
For about a week or ten days, His food was only popcorn
and the like.  As Echamma and Mudaliar Patti have a vow
that they will not eat unless Bhagavan takes at least a
morsel of food cooked by them, He used to take a few
grains from the rice brought by these ladies, and mixing
them with popcorn, somehow used to swallow the food
so that their Vratam or Deeksha might remain unimpaired.
There is not limit to His benevolence and consideration for
the feelings of His devotees, what ever the occasion might
be.  He does not allow others to feel hurt or aggrieved in any

A number of doctors were giving him medicines to cure
the jaundice.  For their satisfaction, Bhagavan used to take
those medicines and for the satisfaction of these ladies
He used to eat their food.  Perhaps the good effects of
medicines and the bad effects of food got neutralized,
He did not become alright for long.  After all the medicines
had been tried, He cured Himself of jaundice in no time,
with dry ginger, ipecac and other Ayurvedic herbal medicines.
Let anyone venture to ask Him how these was cured!

[David Godman in his Power of the Presence, describes the
food of Echamma and Mudaliar Patti.  They were not expert
cooks and the rice and curries were not fully cooked and
the curries had literally no spice at all.  Added to this,
they used to pour a lot of putrfied ghee to the rice balls.
Excepting Bhagavan Ramana who had abundant grace
for devotees, no one else could dare to taste them!]

(Source: Letters from Sri Ramanasramam, Suri Nagamma.]

Arunachala Siva.

Dear Nagaraj,

I am reminded in this connection what Dr. Karamchandani,
the Parsi doctor who attended to Bhagavan during His last
days.  He says the tears of sorrow come about on the lower
portion of the eyes.  The tears of bliss come about on the
edge of the eyes.  On the last evening Mrs. Karamchandani
gave a glass of orange juice to Bhagavan.  She had come all
the way from Vellore to see Bhagavan and submit this glass
of orange juice.  She had darshan and Bhagavan took the
juice without bothering about restrictions on food and drink
etc.,  Immediately, the milling crowd outside began chanting
Arunachala Siva, Arunachala Siva and the sound rented the
air in the Asramam.  Karamachandanis saw Bhagavan being
exteremely happy about the approaching time and He shed
tears!  The doctor says that the tears came from the edge of
the eyes!

Arunachala Siva.   

Once Bhagavan Ramana made a small four line Tamil poem
describing the Jnani's state.  "Since a Jnani does not have
the body consciousness, his moving about and doing work,
is like the state of a drunkard, who when stone-drunk does
not know whether his clothes are there on his body or not."
Bhagavan Himself changed some words and metre and finally
completed this poem.  A copy was made out by Devaraja
Mudaliar in his notebook.  Bhagavan Ramana further added
that there is no corresponding verse in Bhagavatam about
this concept, but in Sita Rama Anjaneya Samvadam, a Telugu work, this state is given in great details while speaking about Jnani's state.  Balarama Reddiar who was in the Hall at that
time said:  Sita Rama Anjaneya Samvadam is to the Telugus
what Kaivalyam is to the Tamilians.  The book is full of
advaita concepts.

(Source: Day by Day by Devaraja Mudaliar. 20.1.1946.
The actual Tamil verse is also available in the Volume 5
of Arunachala's Ramana, Boundless Ocean of Grace.)

Arunachala Siva.

Dear Nagaraj and amiatall,

Only the emtions of true weeping and shedding tears
come up naturally.  One cannot artificially weep and shed
tears without having that emotions in him.  Whereas laughter
can be artificial.  We have seen villains in the films laughing
for a long time and this is artificial.  But one cannot weep
artificially.  One needs glycerine to bring about tears!  No
such external medicine for laughter.  Even child's mock weeping
the mother knows very well.

Arunachala Siva.

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Jivan Mukti
« on: June 10, 2009, 10:55:34 AM »
On 9th Jan 1946, one Mr. P. Banerjee asked Bhagavan:
"What is the difference between Jivanmukti and Videhamukti?"

Bhagavan:  There is no difference.  For those who aske, it
is said:  A Jnani with body is a Jivanmukta and he attains
Videhamuki when he drops off the body.  But this difference
is only for the onlooker, not for the Jnani.

[Ribhu Gita, English translation, The Song of Ribhu gives
a detailed chart as an appendix about these states, again
from the onlooker's point of view.]

Arunachala Siva.   

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Adi Annamalai
« on: June 10, 2009, 10:49:55 AM »
Adi Annamalai, the foothills literally, is a place that one
see while circumambulating the Hill.  Here there is a temple
for Annamalai also.  This is almost the plateu area, that is
why it is called, Foot Annamalai.

Venkateswara Sastrigal and his wife Salammal were staying
there sometime in 1946.  When someone said about this
to Bhagavan Ramana, He said: "Once on a giri pradikshina
we were caught in the rain and we stayed the whole night
in the temple at Adi Annamalai.  It was then I HEARD THE

The Hill has got treasures inside, indeed!

(Source: Day by Day, 9th Jan 1946. Devaraja Mudaliar)

Arunachala Siva.   

Dear mmohan,

Renunication of the mind is the true ascetism.  Saint
Tayumanavar says:  "My religion is that which renounces
the mind."

Arunachala Siva.   

Dear amiatall,

I am not able to readily find an example.  However this is
a far-fetched example.  ARE YOU DIGESTING FOOD, THINKING
THAT YOU ARE SLEEPING?  When we can digest food or sleep,
Jnanis like Bhagavan Ramana can do work also in the wakeful
state without thinking.  But Annamalai Swami says that there
is a miniscule thinking while doing work.

Annamalai Swami quotes:  You decide to go to market.
You go out of the house and take steps to the market.
You are thinking that you have to go to the market and
you are taking every step, without thinking.  But there
is a trice of thinking in every step that you make.

I do not know whether these examples support your view
or oppose your view. 

Arunachala Siva.

General topics / Re: On being serious
« on: June 10, 2009, 10:28:17 AM »
Dear amiatall,

I respect your views that one will be serious when all thoughts
cease.  But a thoughtless state need not be a serious state.
There are several Jnanis like Bhagavan Ramana, Sri Chandra-
sekara Saraswati of Kanchi, and Seshdri Swami, whose
photographs reveal that they have got a smiling and joyous
countenance.  Bhagavan Ramana's famous Welling Bust
photograph show that He is quite joyful and is smiling.

Arunachala Siva.