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Messages - Subramanian.R

43576
Verse 7:-

Since all worldly objects will become naught before Reality,
Reality cannot know unreality, the world and its objects.
The unreality has no wisdom, Jnanam, and therefore it
cannot know Reality.  The soul which is neither real nor
unreal, and is real-unreal, has two kinds of wisdom.  One
for knowing the worldly objects, through the medium of
sense organs, and another for knowing Reality, on being
suitably instructed by a Guru.

[ Bhagavan Ramana also says in Who am I?: "When
world appears, Swarupam does not appear.  When the
Swarupam shines, the world does not appar.  They are
like serpent and the rope.  The world appears due to
thoughts only.  When there are no thoughts, the world
disappears and there is Ananda.  When the world appears
due to thoughts, there is only dhukka.  Saiva Siddhanta
talks about the twin knowledge.  Advaita says that the
twin knowledge do not appear together.]

Verse 8:-

On the Primal Being coming as Guru, as a result of penance,
performed by the soul in the past, and making the soul aware
that it has forgotten its real self, due to being brought up in
the company of five senses, it will leave them and having
no other refuge, will go towards the feet of Hara, Siva.

[ Saiva Siddhanta says that only Siva appears as Guru,
outside while He is there always inside.  Even Guru's
arrival at the scene at the appropriate time depends upon
the merits of the past birth of a seeker.  Bhagavan Ramana
has also said that the outside Guru will appear and push you
inside to the Brahman or the Self, and the Self will pull you
from outside to It.  In Bhagavan Ramana's case, Arunachala, itself is the Guru.  "You have severed my mistakes and shine
as Guru, taking only my merits,  O Arunachala!" [Akshara
Mana Malai].  Saint Manikkavachagar says that "I am able
to prostrate to Him only due to His Grace..." Sivapuranam.]

(Source: Verse translations only, Periya Puranam, G. Vankmika
Nathan.)

Arunachala Siva. 

43577
Dear sadhak,

It is nice to read your post.  There will be some breaks like
this in many people's lives.  The Self within is forgotten,
[it is there always, no doubt], due to 'other' distractions.
But for a sincere sadhak, there is always a reminder from
Bhagavan Ramana within, to come back and arrive.

Arunachala Siva.

43578
General Discussion / Re: Two Good News for the week
« on: May 19, 2009, 11:23:07 AM »
Dear nobody,

I do not really know.  We know Ravana  who did just one
mistake and got killed by Rama.  Sisupala did 100 mistakes
and on his 100th mistake he was killed by Krishna.  Daksha
did one mistake of not inviting Siva for the sacrifice and he
was ruthlessly killed.  What will happen to such perpetrators
of mass killing, like Hitler and Prabhakaran?  I do not what
God wills for them.

Arunachala Siva.     

43579
General topics / The First Birth Anniversary - 19th May 2009
« on: May 19, 2009, 11:11:54 AM »
Today, on 19th May 2009, this Ramana-child is celebrating
its first birth anniversary in the Forum.  It has been fed by
hundreds of cups [posts] of nectarine milk by other members
and it has also given them hundreds of cups [posts] of nectarine
milk.

I should first of all, thank Graham Boyd, the Adminstrator,
for giving this nice opportunity to share the glory of Bhagavan
Ramana.

There were hurdles, many of them.  There were frequent un-
scheduled power cuts, low voltage problems, (I fixed an UPS
only about 2 months back), doorbell ringing, telephone line
ringing, unwanted guests who were speaking for 2 hours about
the price increase of brinjals.  I needed enormous patience, which Bhagavan Ramana gave.

There were challenges.  Difficult posts to think about.  Diehard
arguments with people like 'avatara' and 'mai chop gohok', who
were finding that Sri Ramanasramam is full of rituals and no
advaita, and that animals have no mind, and even idiots look
like Jnanis.

There were pleasant exchanges.  Some friends gave newer
insights.  Some like David Godman, Dr. Raju, srkudai, varadharajan, rajasmanian from Singapore, karthikeyan. M,
even corresponded with me outside the Forum.  I cherish their
brotherhood.

In retrospect, I find that this could be one form of Sadhana, or
it could even be an ego's daily mischieves.  But Bhagavan Ramana knows really what it is.

There were good serial posts, which I would like to preserve.

1. Tiruvembavai and TirupaLLi Ezhuchi in Dec 2008.
2. Upadesa Saram serial which srkudai started, also contributed by Dr. Raju and me with some anecdotes of Bhagavan, for each
verse.
3. Miracles Do Happen serial.  This will continue.
4. Back and forth correspondence on vasanas and thoughts
for which I studied GVK and Padamalai in good detail.
5. Mountain Path stories.
6. The heart rending life of Mahalakshmi Amma.
7. Posts on Gaudapada Karika of Mandukya Upanishad,
    (I think this has been pruned by Graham Boyd.)
8. My Tiruvannamalai darshan experiences.  Bhagavan Ramana
called me five times to Tiruvannamalai, between May 2008
and May 2009.

I bought many new books and existing ones I re-read them
more thoroughly.  This is definitely a fruit of Sadhana.

Now, what next?  I do not really know.  If Bhagavan Ramana
wills me to write further, I shall write.  If Bhagavan Ramana
will be to reduce the posts, I shall.  If Bhagavan Ramana wills
me to stop, I shall stop.

I was roaming about with fools who do not know the path
   of liberation.
You gave me bhakti, and severed all my fruits of past karma.
You cut off the three impurities, ego, kanma and maya, You
    took over me and made me Sivam.
O Father!  Who else can get this grace, how can I describe?
     Acho!

                                   - Tiruvachakam, Acho Padigam, verse 1.
                                             (Decad on Acho, i.e my marvelling)

Arunachala Siva.

43580
Dear srkudai,

The Complete Works of Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi was
first written by Arthur Osborne and published by Sri
Ramanasramam.  Later this work was imporved from time
to time, by Prof. K. Swaminathan, Michael James and
J.Jayaraman and Dr. H. Ramamurthy, (the man who translated
Ribhu Gita along with NOME.)   The present edition, I trust,
is a correct translation brought over with improvements over a period of time.  Major Chadwick (later Sadhu Arunachala) had
also translated the entire work.  But this is not published,
as he himself wished because by that time, Osborne's work
had been approved by the Asramam.  This must be in archives.

On individual works like Sad Darsanam and Upadesa Saram,
many translations have been brought out, with commentary.
B.V. Narasimha Swami, Dr. T.M.P. Mahadevan have done
excellent translations with commentary.  Sri Sadhu Om's
commentary for these works in Tamil is the best.

Arunachala Siva. 
 

43581
General Discussion / Two Good News for the week
« on: May 18, 2009, 05:37:52 PM »
There are two good news for the general public in India.
One is the renewal of democracy and parliamentary process,
after a very carefully organized elections through which one
party without begging other small parties for forming the govt.
has been able to form a stable govt.  The second is the killing
of Velupillai Pirabhakaran, the Chief of LTTE, in an ambush,
by SLA inside the New Safety Zone, this evening, to bring the 30 year old war to an end. Restoration of land mass of entire Sri Lanka is now controlled by the government. LTTE was occupying
one fourth of the land mass of that country.  LTTE is the most
feared terrorist group in the entire globe, owning even small warships and light figher aircrafts.  They have been operating
since 30 years. They are the inventors of human bombs, which
were earlier called belt bombs. Pirabhakaran killed Mayor Doriayappa the then Jaffna Mayor, from a distance of 20 feet with one single bullet shot.  He was by then 16 only.  This happened in 1988 and it was his first murder and he overnight became the leader.  He killed all the leaders of splinter groups, ruthlessly.  He arranged the killing of PM of India, Rajiv Gandhi and the PM of Sri Lanka Premadasa, in 1990s.  He arranged the killing of Dharmalingam, a soft line Tamil political leader of Sri Lanka, who was holidaying in Chennai in his residence, in point blank range.  He distributed cynaide capsules to the cadres,
and were asked to bit them if they are caught alive.  But he
was afraid to bite it himself.

There is a misconceived notion from some Indians that
all Tamilians are supporters/sympathsizers of LTTE.  Nothing
is farther from truth.  When the real purpose of equality for
Tamils in Sri Lanka  with Sri Lankans was lost sight of by the terrorist groups particularly LTTE, all sympathy had been lost.
However all political parties in Tamil Nadu were projecting
this as the only election issue, which is a pity.   The most
vociferous speaker Vaiko himself lost his election!

Arunachala Siva.       

43582
Dear srkudai,

I am happy about your posts on Adhyatma Ramayana.  Incidentally, this is one of the first few books that Pazhaniswami brought from town libarary for reading.
Since he could not understand that classical Malayalam,
even though he was a Malayalee, he was fumbling.  So
Bhagavan Ramana read it and explained it to him.

Arunachala Siva.

43583
General Discussion / Re: who is sidda
« on: May 18, 2009, 01:31:24 PM »
Dear ramanaduli,

Bhagavan Ramana is a Brahma Jnani, but he displayed only
eight gunas, characteristices, like love, non injury etc.,  Siva is said to have these 8 guans also.  But a Siddha is, apart from being a Brahma Jnani, can also exhibit 8 aisvaryas, riches, like flying, disappearing from the scene, becoming a heavy object,
becoming a light object, becoming a very fat object and
becoming a very thin object like a streak of light, knowing
what is happening at a far off place, knowing past, present
and future etc., Bhagavan Ramana did not want to exhibit
such powers, nor did He encourage others to acquire them.
He said, it is all like magic.  Why cheat yourself?  He has
clearly said in Who am I?:  "What is Jnana Dhrishti?  Being
still, Summa irutthal, is Jnana Dhrihti and not seeing an
object at a far off place, knowing three aspects of past,
present and future, knowing someone else's mind etc.,

Arunachala Siva.     
 

43584
Verse 5:-

Though the five sense organs of the body, each according
to its capacity, perceives and comes to know the objects
of the world, through the senses, by the help of the afore-
said soul, yet they cannot know the soul.  Like wise,
the soul cannot by its powers of perception know the grace
of unique One who actuates it.  The five sense organs in the
presence of the soul and correspondingly the soul in the
presence of the Primal Being, are merely like iron filings
before a magnet.

[ Here one can observe that Saiva Siddhanta introduces only
an additional stage between Brahman and the mind-body
complex.  This mid stage called 'soul' or 'individual soul'
is termed as Chittruyir in Tamil.  This word Chittruyir is
also used by Muruganar in his work, where of course, he
mentions it to mean, "this poor devotee" or 'this poor soul".
But this individual soul is very important in Saiva Siddhanta
because, it is this which carrying the last taint of anava
malam.  Even after one seeker has cleaned up his karma and
maya, this anavala malam does not go easily.  Such people,
who are yet to wipe out this anavala malam, of course, goes
to Siva Loka or Kailasa, the Abode of Siva, something similar
to Vaikunta Prapti in Vishistadvaitam.  Such Siva devotees
come back to this earth in a higher birth to work out this
remaining anava mala.  Bhagavan Ramana has said about
Pazhaniswami:  "He could not abide in his Heart.  His mind
and prana left through  his eyes.  Though not liberated, he
will take birth in a higher form of birth to complete the task."]

Verse 6:-

If we say that the abovesaid Primal Being, is something
that can be perceived by the sense organs, It becomes
unreal.  If we say, on the other hand, if we say that It is
something that  cannot be perceived by any means, then
It becomes a non existent thing.  Therefore, without falling
into these two errors, the world of the learned people say,
that in one way, It is something which cannot be perceived
and that in another way, it is something that can be perceived.

[Advaita clearly says that Brahman is experiential.  But
Saiva Siddhanta says it is perceived as well as not perceived.
This is something similar to Arjuna seeing Krishna in Viswarupa, through divine eyesight.  A person, if willed by Siva, can also
'see' Siva.  Tiru Jnana Sambandhar saw the divine couple when
he was three years old and was crying on the banks of a tank
and Siva and Uma appeared before him and Uma gave the child
her breast milk.]   

(Source: only verse translations, Periya Puranam, G.
Vankmika Nathan.)

Arunachala Siva.     

43585
Verse 3:

Since, one says, "It is not this, not this," since he says
"My body," since there is something which knows things
which may happen [as for example in a dream], when
the five sense organs are dormant, since during deep sleep,
there exists something which, without ingesting the food,
and without action of any kind, since there is something,
which understands when instructed  -- these goes to prove
that there exists a soul in this body.

[This verse is a little tricky.  Saiva aphorism says about
a 'soul' inside the body.  This is called Pasu, literally a cow.
But Advaitis say that this is only a mind-buddhi-ego-mindstuff
-chittam, complex, which does this and not the 'soul'. Because
there are no individual souls and a Super Soul in Advaita.  But
Saiva Siddhanta says that the individual soul is there till it
merges with the Sivam.  It is this, which activates the body
in juxtaposition with anthakaranams, viz., mind, buddhi,
mind stuff, chittam, and ego, ahankaram.]

Verse 4:-

The soul is not one of the anthakaranams, i.e internal
instruments or tools of perception, viz., mind, buddhi,
chittam and ahankaram.   These internal instruments
are distinguished from extenal tools of perception which
are five conative organs and five cognative organs.  But
the soul and the anthakaranams, meet and join forces like
a king and his ministers, since the soul on account of its
taint of anava malam (ignorance) cannot by itself perceive
anything.   Now it has five states, viz., wakeful state,
dream state, deep sleep state, Turiya state of oneness
with Brahman and Turiyateeta state, the state of transcendental
bliss.

[ Here Saiva Siddhantis say that the individual soul is not
Brahman because it is tainted by ego (ignorance).  But
Advaita says that it is the mind which is tainted by ego,
buddhi, ahankhara etc., Saiva Siddhantis say that this soul
when rid of this ego, becomes one with Brahman.  Advaita
says that one is with Brahman once the mind is destroyed,
and with that the three impurities.  Lastly, Saiva Siddhanta
says one more state, Turiyateeta, where there is enjoyment
of transcendental bliss.  In Advaita, Brahman and its Bliss
are not two different ones.  Hence there is no concept of
Turiyateeta at all.  Bhagavan Ramana says that even Turiya
is a misnomer, because when one seeker gets past the
first three, he attains Brahman and it need not be called a
Fourth or Tuirya.] 
 
(Source: [only verse translations] from Periya Puranam,
G. Vankmikanathan.)

Arunachala Siva.       

43586
General topics / Re: Death/deep sleep/coma/unconsiousness
« on: May 18, 2009, 12:18:28 PM »
Dear ramanaduli,

Death - Both mind and prana, go away from body to catch
another body, for a rebirth.  There could be some time intervals.

Sleep -  Mind is under suspended animation.  Breath is there.
              (See Who am I?)

Coma, unconsciousness -  These are all like sleep only. No difference.  Excepting that coma could be for a longer time.

In all the cases, Consciousness is there.  Even in dead body,
the Self, consciousness is there.  Like it is in atoms and electrons in a log of wood or stone.  Because Consciousness
is One without a second.

A Jnani if He is a Jivan Mukta, like Bhagavan, the death is
only leaving the world from the point of view of body only.
His Spirit is everywhere, eternal. His mind and prana stand
merged in Siva within already.

Where is a Jnani who gets liberated at the time of death,
his body leaves the world, his mind and prana merges
in Siva at the time of death.  The Spirit is of course, is eternal. 

An ajnani leaves the body, with mind and prana.  The mind
carries the knapsack of good and bad merits, depending upon
which he takes a birth again. 

Arunachala Siva. 

43587
Dear karthikeyan.M,

I am happy to see your introduction to Bhagavan Ramana.
It happens in different ways to different people.  I was
given a book Talks (in Tamil, it is called Bhagavad Vachanmurtham) by Sri A.R. Natarajan when I went to his
office/bookshop on seeing the board while returning from
the office.  He was a great person, a total devotee of Bhagavan
and he readily gave me this book.  Then I used to see him
once in 15 days and he gave me almost 20 books on Bhagavan
Ramana.  I attended his seminar in March every year, where
special speakers discourse on Bhagavan.  Then came my first
visit to Tiruvannamalai.

Saint Tayumanavar says:  "Like catching a deer, with a deer"
Hunters keep a deer tied to a post and another deer comes to
see it.  The second deer is also caught.  Like this Bhagavan
gives His name, His photgraph or His book and nets people.

Arunachala Siva.   

43588
General Discussion / Re: who is sidda
« on: May 18, 2009, 11:58:36 AM »
Dear ramanaduli,

A Siddha Purusha is one who has acquired eight superhuman powers, like anima etc., [ Sri Dakshinamoorthy Stotram].  They
can either remain in a human body or live in an astral plane.
Bhagavan Ramana has said that these Siddha Purushas are
already for self-realized, but they remain in a body for some
purpose for others.  Tiru Moolar is one such Siddha.  His story
is in Periya Puranam.  He lived in body for 3000 years.  Others
live in astral plane for some work for the sake of others.  One
cannot see a Siddha or take a photograph.  If such photographs are shown, they are all bogus.  Mostly they live like a column
of light etc., Bhagavan Ramana has 'seen' many such Siddhas.
Some came to see Him, in the guise of an animal.  They are
supposed to circumbambulate the Hill for their own satisfaction even though they have attained Self Realization.  The 18 Siddhas which are spoken about in Tamil, are also poets who wrote about medicinal herbs, how to live a good life, how to prolong life, what is Siva's nature etc.,

Arunachala Siva.   

43589
General Discussion / Re: Sheshadri swamigal's mother
« on: May 17, 2009, 06:48:42 PM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

Yes.  Your story is correct.  Seshadri Swamigal was living
in Kanchipuram, before coming to Tiruvannamlai.  I think,
the house where he lived had been recently acquired by
Seshadri Swamigal Ashram in Tiruvannamalai.  He had
golden hands.  The toys which he touched, were blessed.
The shopkeeper could sell all of them in no time.  He came
to Tiruvannamalai and whenever he touched the offerings
of the devotees, by touching and eating a little bit, such
devotees were blessed in life with many fortunes and good
luck.  Bhagavan Ramana is also called Thanga Kai, Golden
Hand, because in Tiruchuzhi and Madurai, whatever He
touched met with success.  In foot ball team, His team
mates would touch His hand and say: Venkatraman is to our
team today.  On all such occasions, His football team won
the match.

All Brahma Jnanis have golden hands.  That is why, when
they touched a devotee, it is called Hastha Deeksha.  Even
if one could touch their legs, it is Sparsa Deekasha.  But
Bhagavan Ramana discouraged this.  Perhaps a few people
like Annamalai Swami, Kavyakanta Ganaptati Muni, Murugnar had such blessings.

Arunachala Siva.

43590
The aphorisms start with a small prayer to Ganesa:

*

I shall pray to Ganapati,
Who further improves the knowledge of
Four great disciples, who learnt
The Teaching under the banyan tree from the First Cause.

*

Then there is a brief prayer to the Guru:

I shall prostrate to Him, the Guru,
Whose real nature can be understood,
Only by those who have themselves realized.

*

Verse 1:-

Since the world grouped under the terms, He, She and It, is
subject to the three incidents of creation , sustentance and
destruction.  It is certainly created by someone.  The group,
(He, She and It) disbecomes and, by reason of malam [taint of
anavam, ego, darkness or ignorance] becomes.  The Transcendent Being who is responsible for the disbecoming is also the Primal Being, responsible for the becoming.  Thus
say the Sages.

[Here Saiva Siddhanta expounds Srishti-Drishti philosophy.
Adavaita Vedanta of Sankara, supports Drishti-Srishti philosophy.  Bhagavan Ramana has also said that His experience was the same as that of Sankara.]

*

Verse 2:-

When those creatures by reason of the twin deeds of good
and evil are born and die, the Primal Being mingles with them
and verily becomes them.  Yet it does not coalsece with them
but is only with them.  It stands quite apart and all by itself.
All these, It does by Its dynamica force, Sakti or Uma, from
which It is never separated and is ever concorporate.

[ Uma or Sakti is concorpoate with Siva as eternal and she
also plays the role of Maya, the illusion.  She is beginningless
as Sakti and Maya.]


(Source: Periya Puranam, Prof. G. Vanmika Nathan, in English
prose and poetry.)

Arunachala Siva.