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Messages - Subramanian.R

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General Discussion / Re: The Unreal World
« on: December 14, 2015, 05:00:06 PM »
The allegory of Plato's Cave, which he used to illustrate his theory of forms proves helpful in
understanding the nature of the real.  (My interpretation is both unauthorized and simplified!)
Plato gave the example of people chained in a cave, facing the wall of the cave, unable to turn
around and only able to see the wall. There is a fire, burning in the cave. As objects are brought
behind the flame, they project a shadow on the wall.

Plato proposed that everything we observe in the real world is like the shadow projected on the
wall.  Basically, objects exist independent of projection of that object on the wall.  This realm
of perfect mathematical forms outside the cave is the realm of real objects which the prisoners
are not aware. They therefore mistake the appearance of imperfect shadows of the perfect forms
for reality. They converse through the sense perceptions of the physical world and mistakenly
presume that the concept in their minds is reality. They are unable to appreciate that the distortions
of reality are caused by their imprecise  mental equipment and the flickering fire.


Arunachala Siva.

General Discussion / Re: The Alchemy of Sri Bhagavan:
« on: December 14, 2015, 04:17:19 PM »
By November 1984. I moved to Calcutta on transfer.  A day or two after my occupying 
the residential flat allotted to me by the Government, I called on my neighbor, a Tamizhian,
and introduced myself to him.  In their drawing room on their center table, I happened to
notice a copy of Mountain Path, and very casually turned over the cover page. For the first     
time I saw a picture of Sri Ramana Maharshi and was stunned by it.  I said to myself that   
it would be  wonderful to possess the picture. But I did not feel free to ask for it nor did I
say anything about it to my acquaintance and returned to my flat. To my utter surprise
on the following day that gentleman cut the picture from the magazine and gave it to me.
I was overjoyed and thanked him profusely. In due course, I got it framed.  At that time
I knew nothing of Sri Bhagavan as during the my stay at Madras, I was more into the
teachings of JK.  From that day onwards, I have  been offering flowers to that picture of
Sri Bhagavan.

So it may not be inappropriate If were dare claim that Sri Bhagavan beckoned on His own.

In 1987. I moved to Hyderabad, retired from service on superannuation and settled down there.

Arunachala Siva.

General Discussion / The Alchemy of Sri Bhagavan:
« on: December 14, 2015, 03:53:08 PM »
This is an article by Pingali Surya Sundaram,  in Mountain Path, Jan-Mar. 2015.

The year was 1984.  Two very significant events of my life occurred that year.

The first was some time in the month of February, I was at Madras, where I spent a little over
two decades by then).  And I used to regularly attend the weekend talks of Sri J. Krishnmurti,
who usually visited Madras during the winter months. One evening (when there was no talk),
Krishnaji was about to go by car to the nearby beach.  The car was waiting for him in the portico.
At a distance of about 15 yards, some twenty five of us stood in a semi circle to have the darshan
of the seer. Krishnaji came down the steps and was about to step into the car but he looked in our
general direction and instead of getting into the car, walked towards us.  He stopped just in front
of me.  I reverentially joined my palms in a namaskaram while my eyes closed involuntarily. He
clasped my hands at which I opened my eyes.  He said gently. 'Don't  have so much respect for me.
Sir, I am nobody.'  Saying  that he let go his clasp and after casting a  deep, penetrating look at me
walked back to the car.  Needless to say, all of us assembled there was so astonished at his modesty
and courtesy.           


Arunachala Siva.

General Discussion / Re: The Unreal World
« on: December 14, 2015, 03:28:51 PM »
This story held a fascination for me. But I wrestled with it mentally.   The restrictions of time and space
could affect perceptions of reality but surely such situations can be remedied. Also in these days on
instant messaging, and real time broadcast, we are empowered to know facts and are not mislead
easily. Paradoxically, the more empowered we believe we have become more  and more vulnerable
we actually are.  A modern modified version of the story of the two friends, one healthy and another
diseased, may be heard today in modern high-tech hospital where mix up of medical reports
would cause grief or joy and further complications without any correlation to facts.

Another argument that the mind comes up with, is that the perceptions of the senses is not
unique to any individual but is validated  by others.  But we attribute authority to others and
set store by the opinion of others without appreciating that a common  veil of ignorance shrouds
the human situation itself.


Arunachala Siva.

General Discussion / Re: The Unreal World
« on: December 14, 2015, 03:10:42 PM »
Although I could not appreciate this, I valiantly plodded on with my reading of the works
of Sri Bhagavan.  Then I read the story of two friends with which Bhagavan used to llustrate
that the joy and grief are mere products  of the imagination.   Two men from the village
went into the city  to earn their living.  Their families had no news of them. One day a traveler
went to the city and met one of them. He asked the traveler to convey to his family members
that he was comfortable and prosperous.  He told him to inform the family members of his
friend, about his sad demise.   The traveler returned to the village but mixed the names and
events. Therefore the family members  of the man who was alive and well mourned his death.
and the family members of the person who was no more, held a feast to celebrate his success


Arunachala Siva.

General Discussion / Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« on: December 14, 2015, 11:59:46 AM »

W.E. Channing who was a close friend of Thoreau and his first biographer, commented after
his death that, "No man had a better unfinished life."  For what are we to make of a man with
great talents who apparently loafed his way through life?  One of the most memorable statements
of Thoreau concerned this very issue, "If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps
it is because, he hears a different drummer. Let his step to the music which he hears, however
measured or far away."  [Thoreau's Walden].

Here was a person who in the face of social and peer pressure resolutely 'listened to his inner call'
and fulfilled his 'swadharma', not as someone who visibly accomplished something in the world,
but one who walked on the woods and observed the beauty and precision of nature.  "I went to
the words because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I
could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived."
His insights and lucid descriptions have inspired generations of writers too numerous to list

Thoreau's example challenges us to ask what then does it mean to lead a fulfilled life in which all
one's virtues and skills are exercised to the limit of human possibility?  Is it in the accumulation of
wealth, social power and respect by one's peers?  Is it in doing good deeds and helping the less fortunate?

So the question here is why so much as how.  How can we lead a simpler life in this day and age
with its superfluity of impressions, desires and fears brutally shoved into our faces by inane
electronic equipments in our homes as well as at work? We do have a choice and it is not necessarily
a radical one of renouncing the world and living in association with an ashram or similar institution.
Our daily life is composed of small choices over which we have some degree of control.

We do have choice whether or not to switch on a television, we have a choice and can say no when
offered the latest gadget which will make us the envy of our friends.  Even in situations,
where we have no manoeuvre, we still have a choice whether to indulge in despair or anger, or
remain calm.

(Source: As indicated in Part I of the Power of the Presence)

Arunachala Siva.

General Discussion / The Unreal World
« on: December 14, 2015, 11:52:14 AM »
This is an article by Geetha Ravichandran, a devotee of Sri Bhagavan.  The article is from
Mountain Path, April-June 2015.

When I began reading the works of Ramana Bhagavan, I ran into certain difficulties.  The postulate
of the world as unreal, was a serious challenge to my cherished beliefs.  In my limited understanding,
a spiritual pursuit would ideally involve doing what was right and good which would contribute to
improving the world (which was therefore real), and the condition of its inhabitants, including myself
hopefully.  The self improvement industry which churns out books, workshops, messiahs, and promises
a package deal of success in all endeavours leading to personal power and happiness, had me firmly
in its grip. Therefore considering the world as unreal was beyond me.  Bhagavan has emphasized the
absolute necessity of understanding the unreality of the world.  The following instructions to Sivaprakasam
Pillai are found in the work Who am I?

Q: When will the realization of the Self be gained?

A. When the world which is what-is-seen has been removed, there will be realization of the Self 
     which is the seer.

Q:  Will there not be realization of the Self even while the world is there (taken as real)?

A:  There will not be.

Q.  Why?

A.  The seer and the object seen are like rope and the snake. Just as the knowledge of the rope
     which is substrate will not arise unless the false knowledge of the illusory serpent goes, so the
     realization of the Self which is the substrate will not be gained unless the belief that the world
      is real is removed.

Q:  When will the world which is the subject seen be removed?

A:   When the mind, which is the cause of all cognitions and of all actions, becomes quiescent,
       the world will disappear.


Arunachala Siva.                 

General Discussion / Re: Laghu Vasudeva Mananam:
« on: December 14, 2015, 11:25:31 AM »

30.  Priya (sense of dearness)

31.  Apriya (not being dear)

32.  Upeksha (negligence)

33.  Sadhana-chatushtaya (the four fold competency for Advaitic discipline.

34.  Maitryadi-chatushatya (the four virtues beginning with friendship

35.   Ashtanga Yoga (the Yoga with eight parts)

36.  Sravana (hearing of scriptures)

37.  Manana (mental reflection and reasoning)

38. Nididhyasana (deep concentrated meditation)

39.  Samadhi (Spiritual absorption in non duality

40.  Pramana (criterion of truth)

41.  Prameya (proposition to be proved)

42.  Pramatr (person attempting to prove)

43. Tapatrya (three types of suffering)

44. Adhi (mental worry)

45. Vyadhi (disease)

46.  Arogya (health)

47. Bhakti (devotion)

48. Vairagya (spirit of renunciation)

49.  Sagnopasana (devotion to a personal deity)

50.  Mano nasa (dissolution of the mind)

51.  Vasana-kshaya (destruction of all tendencies)

52.  Videhamukti (liberation without body)

53.  Jivanmukti (liberation with body)

Thus goes on the manifoldness of names and forms according to the power of our internal perception.
We are able to distinguish all these from one another through our internal perception. But this
internal perception cannot know us, the knowers.

If we think deeply over this, we find that the internal world is known by us, but the internal world
does not know us.  This is the proof of the Atman being pure Chit.

Arunachala Siva.     

General Discussion / Re: Laghu Vasudeva Mananam:
« on: December 14, 2015, 11:10:13 AM »
How are we to know the Atman's power of revealing the internal world?

The internal world consists of the following: 

1. The five Kosas - Annamaya, Pranamaya, Manomaya, Vijnanamaya and Anandamaya.

2. The three bodies - Sthula-sarira, Sukshma-sarira, and Karana-sarira.

3. Shad-bhava-vikara (six emotions)

4. Shad-urmi  (six stages)

5. Andyam, Mandyam (dullness)

6. Samarthya (cleverness)

7. Raga, dvesha (attachment and hate)

8.  Trividha-karna (the three-fold organs)

9. Avastha-traya (the three states of waking, dream and deep sleep.

10. The five karmendriyas

11.  The five Jnanendriyas

12. The five pranas (vital powers)

13. The five upa-pranas (subsidiary vital powers)

14. Manas (Mind)

15. Buddhi (intellect)

16. Chitta (mind stuff)

17. Ahankara (ego)

18. Sankalpa (doubt)

19.Nischaya (resolution)

20. Abhimana (I-sense)

21.  Visva (Jiva in the waking state)

22. Taijasa (Jiva in dream state)

23. Prajna (Jiva in sleep)

24. The three tiers of reality -  Pratibhasika (momentarily true), Vyavaharika (relatively true)
      and Paramarthika (absolutely true)

25.  The three Gunas of Sattva, Rajas, and Tamas

26.  Sukha (happiness)

27. Dukha (suffering)

28.  Jnana (Knowledge)

29.  Ajnana (ignorance)


Arunachala Siva.         

General Discussion / Re: Laghu Vasudeva Mananam:
« on: December 14, 2015, 10:53:59 AM »
The reply is not clear. Please clarify it.

The external world consists of the following:

1.  The five elements: earth, water, fire, air, and ether.

2.  The five subtle elements:  sound, touch, form, taste, and smell.

3.  The five-folded gross elements (Panchikrta).

4.  The cosmos (Brahmanda) formed out of the elements.

5. The fourteen worlds.

6.  The four forms of the gross body.

This external world is based on numerous substances indicated by such names and forms.
We know all these with our various powers of knowing. They do not know us. If you bestow deep
thought on this truth, you will understand thereby the Atman's capacity of revealing all that is external.


Arunachala Siva. 

General Discussion / Re: Laghu Vasudeva Mananam:
« on: December 14, 2015, 10:47:41 AM »
As we are not all-knowing, how can we know that the Atman can reveal everything?

The world has two aspect - internal and external. We reveal both these aspects and we are
not revealed by them.


Arunachala Siva. 

General topics / Re: Tevaram - Some select verses.
« on: December 14, 2015, 09:21:26 AM »

புண்ணிய நாடு புகுவதற்
    காகக் புலனடக்கி,
எண்ணிய செய்தொழில் நிற்ப(து)எல்
    லாருமின் றியானெனக்கு
நண்ணிய செய்தொழில் ஞானசம்
    பந்தனை நந்தமர்நீர்க்
கண்ணியன் மாடக் கழுமலத்
    தானைக் கருதுவதே. (50)

To enter the auspicious land of Release,
All do try continence, restraining sensorial
What I desire to act by is to think on
Lofty towered Kaazhi's Lord Janasambandhar
And worship him with tears welling up from eyes. 
Which in my way is a dear act I stand by.

Arunachala Siva.

General topics / Re: Tevaram - Some select verses.
« on: December 14, 2015, 09:17:54 AM »

வயலார் மருகல் பதிதன்னில்,
    வாளர வாற்கடியுண்(டு)
அயலா விழுந்த அவனுக்
    கிரங்கி யறிவழிந்த
கயலார் கருங்கண்ணி தன்துயர்
    தீர்த்த கருணைவெள்ளப்
புயலார் தருகையி னைனென்னத்
    தோன்றிடும் புண்ணியமே. (49)

In Tirumarukal girt with fields, bit by snake
He fell to swoon and swooned the woman
In love and fright like a dark fish doomed.
Was it not Jnansambandhar that with mercy
Rain - like - generous, by his gracing hands
Dispelled the woe of their reviving them - must be said as it seemed.

Arunachala Siva.

General topics / Re: Tevaram - Some select verses.
« on: December 14, 2015, 09:14:45 AM »

இழைவள ராகத்து ஞான
    சம்பந்த னிருஞ்சுருதிக்
கழைவளர் குன்று கடத்தலுங்
    காண்பீர் கடைசியர்,நீள்
முழைவளர் நண்டு படத்தடஞ்
    சாலிமுத் துக்கிளைக்கும்
மழைவளர் நீள்குடு மிப்பொழில்
    சூழ்ந்த வளவளலே. (48)

See you will, sacred triple thread - wearing
Jnanasambandhan's breast housing the great Tamizh Veda
Loftier like that is the bamboo overgrown hill past,
You will see maids working on fields, where crabs
Rush and paddy stalks dance when clouds
From upon tall groves, send rains to spill the grains
Of pearls. Such fertile fields you'll see.

Arunachala Siva.

General topics / Re: Tevaram - Some select verses.
« on: December 14, 2015, 09:11:00 AM »

குறுமனம் உள்கல வாத்தமி
    ழாகரன் கொச்சையன்ன
நறுமலர் மென்குழ லாயஞ்ச
    லெம்மூர் நகுமதிசென்(று)
உறுமனை யொண்சுவ ரோவியக்
    கிள்ளைக்கு நும்பதியிற்
சிறுமிகள் சென்றிருந்(து) அங்கையை
    நீட்டுவர்; சேயிழையே. (47)

Well be-jewelled dame! Yours are soft tresses
With fragrant buds as inviting as Tamizh - spreader
Jnanasambandhan's Kocchai never narrow,
Magnanimous. Fear not. You are our urb's adornment.
The parrot drawn on our houses lustrous wall is so live
For your village girls to see and be fed with their palms.

Arunachala Siva.

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