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Messages - Subramanian.R

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12166
General topics / Re: Tevaram - Some select verses.
« on: February 25, 2016, 08:37:48 AM »
Verse  74:


தென்றிசைப் பொருப்புடன்
   செறிந்தகானின் மானினம்
பன்றிவெம் மரைக்கணங்கள் 
   ஆதியான பல்குலம்
துன்றிநின்ற வென்றடிச்
    சுவட்டின்ஒற்றர் சொல்லவே
வன்தடக்கை வார்கொடெம் 
   மருங்கும் வேடரோடினார்.



When reconnoiters tracking the foot-prints,
Returned and announced that in the southern jungle
Of the hill-range, herds of deer, boars strong, marais
And other animals had gathered,
With straps and nets rushed the hunters in all sides.

Arunachala Siva.

12167
General topics / Re: Tevaram - Some select verses.
« on: February 25, 2016, 08:35:38 AM »
Verse  73:


நெருங்குபைந் தருக்குலங்கள்
    நீடுகாடு கூடநேர்
வருங்கருஞ் சிலைத்தடக்கை 
   மானவேடர் சேனைதான்
பொருந்தடந் திரைக்கடல் 
   பரப்பிடைப் புகும்பெருங்
கருந்தரங்க நீள்புனல்
   களிந்திகன்னி யொத்ததே.


The march of the long-armed and fierce hunters
Into the vast and green boscage was like unto
The tumultous flowing of black-waved Kalindi
Into the billowy main immense.

Arunachala Siva.

12168
General topics / Re: Tevaram - Some select verses.
« on: February 25, 2016, 08:33:23 AM »
Verse  72:


கோடுமுன் பொலிக்கவும்
   குறுங்கணா குளிக்குலம்
மாடுசென் றிசைப்பவும் 
   மருங்குபம்பை கொட்டவும்
சேடுகொண்ட கைவிளிச் 
   சிறந்தவோசை செல்லவும்
காடுகொண் டெழுந்தவேடு 
   கைவளைந்து சென்றதே.



Trumpets sounded in the front ranks;
From the sides resounded kettle-drums;
Pampais were played; hands clapped keeping time;
Thus hied the hunters in great hullabaloo.   

Arunachala Siva.

12169
General topics / Re: Tevaram - Some select verses.
« on: February 25, 2016, 08:31:11 AM »
Verse 71:


நண்ணிமாம றைக்குலங்கள்
    நாடவென்று நீடுமத்
தண்ணிலா அடம்புகொன்றை 
   தங்குவேணி யார்தமைக்
கண்ணினீடு பார்வையொன்று 
   கொண்டு காணும் அன்பர்முன்
எண்ணில்பார்வை கொண்டுவேடர் 
   எம்மருங்கும் ஏகினார்.




The great Vedas for ever pursue, but behold not, the Lord,
Who on His matted hair sports the cool crescent,
Adampu and Konrai flowers; it was Thinnan
Who was endowed with the Eye to behold Him.
Before him from all sides marched the hunters
With the pack of their trained animals.


Arunachala Siva.

12170
General Discussion / Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« on: February 25, 2016, 07:03:02 AM »

The priests in one way, are fortunate to be of service to God, by washing God's image,
adorning with flowers, silks, sandal paste, vibhuti etc.,  This opportunity has given to them by
the Almighty, due to their merits of the previous births.  It stops with that.  The mere functioning
as a priest, shall not confer deliverance.  They have to work it out, through meditation and self
inquiry.  Further, if as a priest, someone does some sins, like asking money from devotees or giving
priority to rich vis a vis poor etc., it adds to their sins.

In Periya Puranam, the story of 63 Saints, there are only a few brahmins and still a fewer were
priests in the Siva temples. This clearly shows that mere priesthood shall not confer deliverance.

Arunachala Siva.

12171
Jnani and Avatara:

As a related subject, the subject of a Jnani and an Avatara, came up two times as indicated in Talks
of M. Venkataramiah and once in Day by Day of Devaraja Mudaliar.

Bhagavan Ramana has clarified to Devaraja Mudaliar (in his entry of 14th Sept. 1946) that the
Jnani was higher than the avatara, according to some books.  When Devaraja Mudaliar
had written earlier in a letter to his brother "that Jnani is the highest manifestation of God
on earth, next perhaps only to an avatara", Bhagavan had said this.  When Mudaliar wanted to
correct his letter, Bhagavan Ramana said:  "Why do you correct it?  Let it go as it is"

Earlier, there are two "talks" in Munagala Venkataramiah's book.

In Talk No. 307, Bhagavan Ramana when asked by someone regarding avatars of Vishnu,
had said:  "Let us know our own avatara, the knowledge of the other avataras will follow."

In Talk No. 471, a devotee said:

The avatars are said to be more glorious than the self realized Jnanis.  Maya does not affect
them from birth, divine powers are manifest,new religions are started and so on.           

Bhagavan:  (1) "Jnani tvatmaiva me matam."
                 (2) "Sarvam khalvidam brahma."

How is an avatar different from a Jnani; or how can there be an avatar as distinct from the universe?

Devotee:  The eye is said to be repository of all forms.  So the ear is of all sounds, etc.,  The one
Chaitanya operates as all. No miracles are possible without the aid of the senses, indriyas.
How can there be miracles at all?  If they are said to surpass human understanding so are the
creation in dreams.  Where then is the miracle?

The distinction between Avataras and Jnanis is absurd.

"Knower of Brahman becomes Brahman only." is otherwise contradicted.

Bhagavan: Quite so.

(Source:  As indicated above)

Arunachala Siva.   

12172
General topics / Re: Dhyana - Jonathan Bader:
« on: February 24, 2016, 01:39:29 PM »
Samyama exemplifies object based meditation, for it strives to establish an identity. Prasamkhyana
best represents the approach independent of object orientation.  This meditation is characterized
solely by Viveka Khyati, 'discriminative discernment'.  The function of Prasamkhyana is to discriminate
between the pristine nature of the Self (Purusha), and that of Prakriti, the very source of all material
objects.  The aim of the meditation is to stop the fluctuations of the mind (Chitta Vrtti Nirodha), and
ultimately, to be free from the bonds of Prakriti. The YS clearly regards asamprajnata, as the superior
of the two ways of meditation which does not rely on objects. (Yoga Sutra 1.18).

Sankara too favors meditation which goes beyond the limits of object identification:

'Thus the sage identifies himself, by stages, with the vital force that comprises everything. Then,
withdrawing this all comprising vital force into the inner Self, he next attains the state of the witness,
the transcendent Self that is described as 'not this, not this.' (Br.Up.Bhashya 4.2.4)

Sankara accepts the striving to attain identity only as a preliminary stage of meditation.When this
stage is abandoned, the meditator becomes a mere witness (drastr) to all associations.  He exercises
discriminative insight by negating (neti, neti) all which is other than the higher Self.  Such meditation
is a true reflection of the nature of the Self. which, in the absolute sense, can only be identified as
'not this, not this'.  To assist his students on the path of Self Realization,  Sankara developed a process
he calls Parisamkhyana, a meditation closely resembling the Prasamkhyana of the Yoga Sutra.

Using this type of meditation as a model, Sankara establishes a new interpretation of Upasana.
An analysis of the sacred utterance, Tat Tvam asi, becomes the basis of a meditative process which
discriminates between  Self and non Self, while reaffirming the essential unity of Atman and Brahman.         

concluded.

Arunachala Siva.

12173
And that is how I like to think of Chadwick still.  His mortal remains lie buried next to his cottage,
but if there is one place his ghost would haunt, it would surely be Bhagavan's shrine.  Perhaps
he is there even now, floating gently round and round with the other devotees, or sitting in the
corner with a phantom meditation belt around his knees. After all, if there was one thing Chadwick's
extraordinary life had proved, it was that he found it impossible to tear himself  away from Ramana
Maharshi.  So he is surely there in spirit still, refusing to leave his Master's side even in death, ever the
best friends.

In April 1950, when the Good Shepherd seemed once more to vanish from the world, Chadwick must
have thought that he would never see that beloved form again. Yet the two of them were to be mysteriously
reunited at the end. For as Chadwick himself lay dying in hospital, he saw a radiant figure at the door way,
beckoning him to come away.

If Chadwick had given the apparition a name for those who stood around his deathbed, he would have
revealed something about himself, but nothing at all about the mysterious One who had come for him.
All that we can assume is that, whatever guise He appeared in, was Bhagavan who came for Chadwick
at the end.

concluded.

Arunachala Siva.

       

12174
So Chadwick settled back down in his little cottage and devoted the remainder of his life to helping
the Asramam survive as a living spiritual center. It is to his efforts that we owe the existence of
Veda Patalsala and the regular performance of the Sri Chakra Puja at the Mother's Temple.  In a
more general sense, he encouraged the others to return, writing articles and spreading the good news
that Bhagavan had not really gone anywhere at all.  Yet it was an uphill struggle for much of the 1950s.
They were dark and difficult times for the Asramam, which naturally had fewer visitors and less money
than before.  Add to this an endless succession of court cases and battles over Bhagavan's legacy
and it must have seemed at times that the Asramam could not survive.

The current President was often away at college in those days.  He remembers returning to the Asramam
at the end of the term and finding that there was only one person in the temporary shed that had been
erected over Ramana Maharshi's Samadhi.  It was his old friend Alan, the English exile, the one lost sheep
who had nowhere else to go.

'The only person sitting in the small thatched shed would be Chadwick.  He would be sitting quietly.'

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.         

12175
General Discussion / Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« on: February 24, 2016, 09:51:35 AM »
Dear Sadhak,

Yes.

Arunachala Siva.

12176
General topics / Re: Dhyana - Jonathan Bader:
« on: February 24, 2016, 09:50:17 AM »
The six types of Samadhi mentioned in YS. 1.17 and 1.42 may all be attained by means of Samyama.
Sankara, for his part, does not seem particularly concerned to distinguish Samadhi from other,
more general, terms denoting meditation.  In his comment on the Brahma Sutra (BS.2.3. 29),
he cites as examples of Samadhi passages which prescribe dhyana and nididhyasana:  those based
on object centered consciousness (Samprajanata) and those which reject all contact with the objects
(asamprajanata).   (Yoga Sutra  1.18).

Samyama exemplifies object based meditation, for it strives to establish an identity. Prasamkhyana
best represents the approach independent of object orientation.  This meditation is characterized
solely by Viveka Khyati. 'discriminative discernment'. The function of Prasamkhyna is to discriminate
between the pristine nature of the Self (Purusha), and that of Prakriti, the very source of all material
objects.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.       

12177
4.  kaya vaang manah kaarya muttamam
poojanam japas chintanam kramaat.

Ritual worship, repetition of sacred names, and meditation are done with the body, the speech,
and the mind, and they progress in excellence in that order.

Clearly, in this verse, the Maharshi advises that the less physically active and exteriorised religious
disciplines are, the more effective they become. He has said, 'We project ourselves into idols and
worship them because we do not understand true inward worship.' (Self Inquiry).

But when asked if such practices as bathing, prayer, chanting, and pilgrimage to sacred places were
useful to spiritual aspirants or merely a waste of time, Sri Bhagavan replied, 'All of them advance the
purification of neophytes whose worldly propensities have just begun to lose force.  Virtuous thoughts,
words, and deeds nullify their contraries in the past.'  (Ramana Gita, Ganapati Muni.)

The Maharshi thus assigns a limited and preliminary values to rituals, but does not go as far as
Vasishta in dismissing them;  'The vain waste their time, like brutes, in the fruitless illusions
of tapas, (austerities), yajna (sacrifices), holy waters, visiting sacred shrines, the worship of gods,
gifts etc.,  But you should abandon all these as tending to rebirth. (Yoga Vasishta - Aiyer)

Karma, or 'action',  in some contexts refers to religious ritual and, in this fourth verse, the Maharshi
continues discussing the path of Action /Devotion.  In this case, the path is that of the Karmakanda,
the portion of the Vedas which prescribes obligatory ritual and other activities.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.                   

12178
Verse  281:


Practice according to the scriptures, reason, and one's realization of the Self -- by these three
means, know thine own self, as the Self of all, and that way, do away with your ignorance of
identifying the Self with the non Self.


Verse  282:

The wise man has not the least concern with getting and spending.  Therefore strive to destroy
this illusion, through constant and single minded devotion to Brahman.

Verse 283:

Knowledge that arises from the great utterance 'Thou art That' is oneness with the Self, the
Supreme. Knowing that for certain and firmly establishing yourself in the Supreme, do away
with your ignorance of identifying the Self with the non Self.

Verse  284:

As long as the knowledge of the self remains in the body, very carefully do away with your
ignorance of identifying the Self with the non Self.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.             

12179
General topics / Re: Tevaram - Some select verses.
« on: February 24, 2016, 09:12:55 AM »
Verse  70:


போர்வலைச் சிலைத்தொழிற் 
   புறத்திலே விளைப்பவச்
சார்வலைத் தொடக்கறுக்க 
   ஏகும்ஐயர் தம்முனே
கார்வலைப் படுத்தகுன்று
    கானமா வளைக்கநீள்
வார்வலைத் திறஞ்சுமந்து 
   வந்தவெற்பர் முந்தினார்.



The cynergic hordes advanced with huge nets and bows;
Thinnan, the great one, who was to snap all bonds,
Followed them; many were they who walked, carrying
Leather-straps and nets into the forests
And hills on whose crests clouds did rest.


Arunachala Siva.

12180
General topics / Re: Tevaram - Some select verses.
« on: February 24, 2016, 09:10:29 AM »
Verse  69:


வன்தொடர்ப்பி ணித்தபாசம் 
   வன்கைமள்ளர் கொள்ளவே
வென்றிமங்கை வேடர்வில்லின்
    மீதுமேவு பாதமுன்
சென்றுநீளு மாறுபோல்வ 
   செய்யநாவின் வாயவாய்
ஒன்றொடொன்று நேர்படாமல்
    ஓடுநாய்கள் மாடெலாம்.


The hunters held the long leashes of hounds
By their fierce hands; with their red tongues hanging
Setters ran before them, not in any proper order;
It was like the treading of the roseate feet
Of Dame Victory who abode in the bows of heroes.

Arunachala Siva.

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