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Messages - Subramanian.R

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11236
General topics / Re: Tevaram - Some select verses.
« on: November 12, 2015, 08:21:02 AM »
Tiru Ambala Chakram:


Verse 75:


தானவர் சிட்டர் சதுரர் இருவர்
ஆனஇம் மூவரோ டாற்ற அராதிகள்
ஏனைப் பதினைந்தும் விந்துவும் நாதமும்
சேனையும் செய்சிவ சக்கரந் தானே. (75)

Thanavar =  Kshetra Balakars; Chittar = The attendants of Siva who set right the erring gods,
Veerabhadrar;  Chaturar = The four gods;  Iruvar - Two sons viz., Ganesa and Murugan.


Siva Chakra

Place them all in squares appropriate
The Dhanavar, the Chittar, the Sathirar two,
The two Guard-gods, and the rest of them fifteen,
Bindu, and Nada and Siva Gana Natha,
Thus form Siva Chakra.


Arunachala Siva.

11237
General topics / Re: Tevaram - Some select verses.
« on: November 12, 2015, 08:18:28 AM »
Tiru Ambala Chakram:

Verse 74:


எட்டு வரையின்மேல் எட்டு வரைகீறி
யிட்ட நடுவுள் இறைவன் எழுத்தொன்றில்
வட்டத்தி லேஅறை நாற்பத்தெட் டும்இட்டுச்
சிட்டஞ் செழுத்தும் செபிசீக் கிரமே. (74)

Letter Six

Draw eight lines vertical,
And eight lines horizontal,
In central chamber thus formed,
Place Lord`s Letter-Six?Om Na Ma Si Va Ya,
In forty and eight squares that remains,
The Sacred Letters distribute,
And there pray.

Arunachala Siva.

11238
General topics / Re: Tevaram - Some select verses.
« on: November 12, 2015, 08:16:14 AM »
Tiru Ambala Chakram:


Verse 73:


எட்டும் இரண்டும் இனிதறி கின்றிலர்
எட்டும் இரண்டும் அறியாத ஏழையர்
எட்டும் இரண்டும் இருமூன்று நான்கெனப்
பட்டது சித்தாந்த சன்மார்க்க பாதமே. (73)


Aum Denotes Tattva Manifestations of Siva

They know not well Letter Eight (``A``) and Two (``U``)
They the ignorant one, know not what ``Eight`` (``A``) and Two (``U``) are;
Eight and Two (AUM) are but Ten
That verily is truth of Siddhanta Jnana.

Arunachala Siva.

11239
General topics / Re: Tevaram - Some select verses.
« on: November 12, 2015, 08:13:06 AM »
Tiru Ambala Chakram:

Verse 72:


கூடிய எட்டும் இரண்டும் குவிந்தறி
நாடிய நந்தியை ஞானத்துள் ளேவைத்து
ஆடிய ஐவரும் அங்குற வாவர்கள்
தேடி யதனைத் தெளிந்தறி யீரே. (72)


Chant Aum and Win Senses

Know ``A`` and ``U`` together (AUM) in depth
Seek Nandi in Jnana within,
The Five wavering senses,
Your friends become;
Chant AUM and be doubt-free.


Arunachala Siva.

11240
General topics / Re: Tevaram - Some select verses.
« on: November 12, 2015, 08:10:40 AM »
Tiru Ambala Chakram:

Verse 71:


நவமும் சிவமும் உயிர்பர மாகும்
தவம்ஒன் றிலாதன தத்துவ மாகும்
சிவம்ஒன்றி ஆய்பவர் ஆதர வால்அச்
சிவம்என்ப தானாம் எனும்தெளி வுற்றதே. (71)


Chant Namasivaya and Vanquish Karmas; Chant Sivaya Nama and Be One With Sadasiva

In the Five Letters beginning with ``Na`` (Na Ma Si Va Ya)
Are all actions you seek to do;
In the Five Letters are stubborn Karmas vanquished;
Those who hold in their hearts
The Five Letters with ``Si`` to begin (Si Va Ya Na Ma)
Will with Primal Sadasiva one be.


Arunachala Siva.

11241
General Discussion / Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« on: November 12, 2015, 06:50:43 AM »

Pllaces in Tiruvannamalai:-

Palakottu  - Just behind Mother's Temple.  There is a small
gate to enter the bushy forest area.  After about 100 metres,
you can see some cottages.  This is where Annamalai Swami,
Chadwick and other great men stayed.  There is a Samadhi
for Annamalai Swami.

Guru Murtham -  This is in Vetta Valam Road, about 3kms
from Asramam inside the town.  There is a Samadhi for
Guru Jnana Desikar, with a Siva Lingam.  Here Bhagavan
and a few others stayed for 6 months, when there was
no water in Virupakshi Cave area.  There is a small temple,
which is often closed.  You have to check up with nearby
houses.  In one of the houses, there is a key, they will
come and open the shrine.  You can take some camphor
and light it there.  You may pay some amount for the house
people since they invariably buy oil for the lamp.

Isanya Math -  This is on Giri Valam, main road.  Towards
the end, you have to take a deviation for about 200 mts.
and you can see Isanya Desikar Math, which is managed
by Kovilur Math.  The trust member stays in the adjacent
house, where there is a Veda Patasala.  Here is where
Isanya Jnana Desikar attained Samadhi.  Bhagavan Ramana
went for lunch one day, on the compulsion of the then Kovilur
Math Head, who took him in a bullock cart, literally lifting
Bhagavan up!  Bhagavan Ramana went there, had a lunch
and gave a small extempore discourse to students on Bhagavad Gita.  He was hardly 25 at that time.

Arunachala Siva.   

11242
The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Our Bhagavan-Stories
« on: November 12, 2015, 06:48:09 AM »


A vistor came to the Asramam on 10.2.1946 with a book called Sri Ramanopakhyanam.
His name was Thangavelu Nadar.  Bhagavan Ramana told Devaraja Mudaliar that it
was not about anything about His teachings but the one which contained some stanzas
found in some Nadi horoscope of Bhagavan Ramana, with notes and commentaries of another
gentleman who was then editing a Tamizh paper.  Bhagavan added that besides this version,
some other Nadi version of Bhagavan's horoscope have been traced and sent to the Asramam
by different devotees.  Bhagavan Ramana added that there were various people in the country
who claimed to have various Nadis.  We don't know whether they are correct or not.  This
Thangavelu Nadar was originally from Kumbakonam.  There also used to be one Swami at
Tindivanam.  When anyone went to him, he used to tell them:  "You must go and have darshan
of Ramana Maharshi, at such and such time, on such and such date."  This gentleman's name
is also indicated in the Nadi horoscope and they used to come here and tell me about it!

(Source:  Day by Day, Devaraja Mudaliar.)

Arunachala Siva. 


11243
General Discussion / Re: Laghu Vasudeva Mananam:
« on: November 11, 2015, 03:31:33 PM »
We find from observation that, only when the five elements that have formed into the male and female
germ cells come together, bodies are produced.  Therefore is it not reasonable to hold that these
germ cells are by themselves capable of forming bodies?


It would not be a correct inference. We find bodily reproductive cells of males and females often
go without producing bodies.  Only when these female and male cells are mingled with karma are
bodies produced. The five elements and space and time exist everywhere uniformly. So diversity
of karma alone account for the varieties of bodies that are produced. As an example to illustrate this,
let us take mud which exists everywhere alike. From mud, pots, pans, jars etc., are made.  This
variety in form is caused by the skill of the hands of the potter. In this example, we find that mud
is the material cause and the potters skill is the instrumental cause of pots, pans, jars, etc.,

In the same way, the five folded gross elements are the material cause and karma the instrumental
cause of the bodies of all beings.So wherever there is karma capable of producing enjoyment and
suffering, these bodes occur. As there is karma present in the waking state and dream states, there
are bodies in these states. If there is no karma, there will be no body. Because there is no karma
in deep sleep, there is no body in that state.  Even if there is mud, if there is not present the skill
of the potter's hand, there will be no production of mud pots, pans, jars, etc., In the same way,
even in the presence of the five elements created by God, if karmas are annihilated by the knowledge
of Atman  (Atma Jnana), the enlightened one (Atma Jnani) can have all his karmas annihilated. He will
then have no body and will have no further embodiment.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.                 

11244
General Discussion / Re: Laghu Vasudeva Mananam:
« on: November 11, 2015, 03:12:02 PM »
What is the cause of embodiment?

The body is produced when the five fold elements (Panchikrita Bhutas) are combined with
the past karma efficiency.  It would not be correct to say that the elements alone are responsible
for the production of bodies.  These elements alone are responsible for the production of bodies.
These elements are everywhere, but we do not find bodies everywhere.


contd.,

Arunachala Siva. 

11245
General Discussion / Re: Laghu Vasudeva Mananam:
« on: November 11, 2015, 03:06:19 PM »
What then differentiates Jivan Mukti (liberation in embodied state) from, Videha Mukti (disembodied
liberation?"

The difference consists, as said earlier, in absence of ignorance and absence of return to the
embodied state. What was said earlier about the difference is this: There are four kinds of
liberation - Salokya, Samipa, Sarupya and Sayujya.  In the first three, due to the presence
of ignorance, Prarabdha is still there. As a consequence, there is embodiment and possibility
of fall. In Videha Mukti there is neither karma of any nature, nor any body.

Thus according to scriptures and reasoning, it is clear that disembodied liberation is supreme
bliss, and embodied states lead to sufferings.

From experience also we can come to this conclusion. In deep sleep as there is no awareness
of body, there is absence of all suffering. On the contrary, in the waking state and the dream state,
where there is awareness of the body, all experience sufferings.  Therefore we get the major
premise that whenever there is embodiment, there comes suffering. So we can conclude that
embodiment is the reason for the suffering befalling the inherently blissful Atman.Suffering is
never the inherent nature of the Atman.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.       

11246
General Discussion / Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« on: November 11, 2015, 01:20:06 PM »
Guru Gita -Some verses:



Verses 98 and 135 also describe the worship of Guru.

dorbhyam padbhyam-cha janubhyamurasa sirasa drisa
manasa vachasa chei pranamo'shtanga uchyate

                                                          -  Verse 98

One should prostrate to the Guru fully lying flat on the ground
with both hands, legs, knees, thighs, head, by sight, mind
and speech.  This kind of full prostration (where body, mind
and senses are involved)  is Sashtanga Pranama.

Prostrations by folding one's hands half-heartedly, without raising them above the head, are not prostrations.  These modern varieties
speak of egoism and these should not be definitely followed in
respect of Guru.  Saiva Siddhantam speaks of four types of
prostrations.  1) to mother, by holding the folded hands on the
belly, because it is from this mother gave birth to you.  2) to
others, by touching the Heart, implying that the Brahman stays
in the Heart for both you and me.  3) to elders and gods, by holding the folded hands on the forehead, implying that the elders and gods should guide him for a good intellect.  4) to Guru, by raising the
folded hands above skull implying that it is he who guides him to
higher levels of understanding.  Then the full fledged namskarams should be done.]         

drisya-vismriti-paryantam kuryad-gudu padarchanam
tadrisayaiva kaivalyam nacha-tadvyatirekinah.

                                                            -  Verse 135

One should worship the Feet of the Sadguru till the 'seen' disappears
-- absence of duality.  To those only there is liberation and not to
those who act in contradiction.

Guru padam, Feet become object of worship till one attains Self
realization, whereafter the devotee and Guru are the One Brahman, without second.  Till such time, duality must be maintained.  Bhagavan Ramana says in ULLadu Narpadu -Anubandham, that the advaitam should be practised everywhere with everyone, but not with Guru till one realizes the Self.  Guru must be worhsipped with Trikaranas, mind, body and speech.  This is the import of the verse.  The spirit of service and attitude of a servitor should be never forgotten.

{Maurice Frydman once asked Bhagavan Ramana:  "Swami, if everything is advaitam, why should there be a difference between you and me?  Why not I come and sit with you in the sofa.  Bhagavan Ramana replied:  Why not?  You come and sit beside me?  Then Maurice Frydman said with a smile:  Bhagavan!  If I sit with you, you may perhaps not mind it.  But the people here would lynch me and throw me out of this Asramam like a bag of waste vegetable!  Bhagavan Ramana then laughed and said:  "You have yourself now understood.  Reach that state, when you can sit with me!"  In fact, no one sat with Bhagavan Ramana in the sofa in His life time or thereafter, with the possible exception of Kavyakanta Ganapati Muni.  Bhagavan Himself pulled him from the floor and made him sit with Him once for a photograph!}

Arunachala Siva.   

11247
General Discussion / Re: Laghu Vasudeva Mananam:
« on: November 11, 2015, 12:48:09 PM »
If deep sleep  is similar to Videha Mukti, why not consider the former itself as liberation
without body?

No, that would not be correct. Though in both the states the bliss is similar, ignorance is still
present in deep sleep; for one, awakes from deep sleep and ignorance is still found to persist
in him.  In liberation, both these are absent i.e. there is no presence of ignorance and there is
no return from it (as in coming back to waking state from deep sleep).  So it cannot be said that
the deep sleep is liberation.  For this very reason, even the state of cosmic dissolution is not
considered Mukti. Just as in the bliss of deep sleep there is self awareness, so also there is
self awareness (Sva samvedya). This being so,  Mukti is an experience.  It is not a void (Sunya).

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.       

11248
General Discussion / Re: Laghu Vasudeva Mananam:
« on: November 11, 2015, 12:39:51 PM »
continues...

As the first three forms of liberation can end in Punaravritti (return to the embodied state), they
are of secondary importance.  Real liberation is only Sayujya, in which there is no coming back.
The statement 'by Yoga one attains Sayujya' relates only to the Yoga or union with Nirguna
Brahman, (Brahman, the Absolute who has no limitations). That no one sees a Videha Mukta anywhere
as one might see a Jivan Mukta, should not make one think that there is no Videha Mukti.  For in the
case of these Videha Muktas, only their bodies are destroyed.  The bliss, which is their nature is never
destroyed.. As that bliss is enjoyed without a body just like the bliss of deep sleep, it can be
perceived only by oneself and never by an outside observer.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.         

11249
General Discussion / Re: Laghu Vasudeva Mananam:
« on: November 11, 2015, 12:31:34 PM »
Then why is that men say that some of the stars seen traversing the sky free or liberated beings;
for they have a form?

I'll tell you.  Listen. Liberation is of four types. - Salokya, (attaining the same world), Samipya,
(attaining closeness), Sarupya (attaining the same form ), and Sayujya (attaining oneness).
For these attainments, the means consist of Charya (proper attitude), Kriya (proper action or rituals),
Yoga (meditation) and Jnana (knowledge of unity), respectively.

Charya consists in cultivating the attitude that one is the servant of God and His service is one's
duty. Kriys is the ritualistic worship of deities, like Vishnu, Siva, etc.,  Yoga is the practice of
Ashtanga Yoga (Yoga with eight steps), consisting of Yama, Niyama, etc.,  Jnana is the experiencing
of the unity or non separation or Jivatman and Paramatman..

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.       

11250
The First Criterion of Reality :  Constancy or Changelessness:

Scientific knowledge is often expressed in the form of laws, which describe the behavior of systems --
natural or synthesized. For instance there is the Ohm's law in electricity, that expresses the relation
between current, voltage and resistance in an electrical system.  According to it, the current is given
by the voltage divided by the resistance.

It is clear from this relation that if we raise the voltage applied to, say, a water heater, the current
flowing through it will increase.  If on the other hand, we replace its heating element with a different
one having a higher resistance, the the current will decrease. While the voltage, resistance and current
might thus vary, the law itself remained the same.  In other words, it has a constancy or change-less-ness
that is not possessed by any of those three parameters. We therefore take the law to represent a facet
of scientific 'reality'.         

A great many laws of science are expressed in the form of equations.  We may term them as
'quantitative', not expressible in equation form.  A well known example is the principle we come
across in magnetism that 'like poles repel and unlike poles attract each other.'   All such quantitative
and qualitative laws taken together, and the theories that underlie them, make up the essence of
what we call the 'scientific reality'. 

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.     

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