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Messages - Subramanian.R

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General topics / Re: Tevaram - Some select verses.
« on: November 16, 2015, 09:18:53 AM »
13. Apakvan -  One who is not a mature Siva-devotee:

Verse 1:

குருட்டினை நீக்கும் குருவினைக் கொள்ளார்
குருட்டினை நீக்காக் குருவினைக் கொள்வார்
குருடுங் குருடும் குருட்டாட்டம் ஆடிக்
குருடுங் குருடும் குழிவிழு மாறே. (1)

Blind leading the Blind

They seek not the Guru that blindness cures
They seek the Guru that cures not blindness;
The blind and the blind in a blind dance shuffled
And the blind and the blind in a deep pit together fell.

Arunachala Siva.

General topics / Re: Tevaram - Some select verses.
« on: November 16, 2015, 09:12:27 AM »
12. Siva Vesham:

Verse 1:

அருளால் அரனுக் கடிமைய தாகிப்
பொருளாந் தனதுடற் பொற்பது நாடி
இருளான தின்றி இருஞ்செயல் அற்றோர்
தெருளாம் அடிமைச் சிவவேடத் தாரே. (1)

Liege-robe of Siva

By Hara`s Grace they become His liege-men;
Within the body mansion, they seek His golden throne;
Darkness dispelled, they know of deeds none, good and bad;
Thus they stand steadfast in the liege-robe of Siva.

Arunachala Siva.

General topics / Re: Tevaram - Some select verses.
« on: November 16, 2015, 09:10:26 AM »
11.  Jnana Vesham:

Verse 1:

ஞான மிலார் வேடம் பூண்டும் நரகத்தார்
ஞானமுள் ளோர்வேடம் இன்றெனில் நன்முத்தர்
ஞான முளதாக வேண்டுவார் நக்கன்போல்
ஞான முளவேடம் நண்ணிநிற் பாரே. (1)

Jnana is All; not robes

Sans Jnana, robe but leads to hell
Sans robe, Jnana yet leads to Mukti;
When they seek Jnana,
They shall seek Lord and pray,
Their hearts robed in Jnana way.

Arunachala Siva.

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Our Bhagavan-Stories
« on: November 16, 2015, 08:30:02 AM »

There is a verse, benedictory.  Bhagavan Ramana is like what?  He is like a large deep ocean of
milk. All the worldly activities around Him are like little waves on the ocean's shore. "Aparasatchit sukavari......"  He is non-moving, deep delving, calm, wave-less ocean of milk.  Ocean of Sat
Chit Ananda.  Ananda is His nature.  Chit, Self Knowledge is His Power.  He is the One, Sat,
without the second.  The entire world, people running around with all sorts of egoistic problems, challenges, doubts, fears, unstable happiness, miseries, anger and hate --- are like waves.
Without bothering about the waves,  if one goes into the ocean, he can dive deep into that
Paramananda Sagara.

Arunachala Siva.

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Our Bhagavan-Stories
« on: November 16, 2015, 08:26:24 AM »

David Godman, in one of his talks with some Westerner has said that it is quite rare to witness
a person like Bhagavan Ramana who is both enlightened and saintly. 

I also agree with him.  There are only three in my view where both saintliness and enlightenment
were together.  One is Bhagavan Ramana and the other is Chandrasekhara Saraswati
of Kanchi Math, and Chandrasekhara Bharati.  All the three were extraordinary.

There are many people who were enlightened but not saintly, at least, in outward behavior.
Seshadri Swamigal and earlier Kaduveli Siddhar [about whom I wrote] were such types.

There are many who are saintly in their disposition but not self-enlightened.  There are numerous examples which I do not want to quote here.

Arunachala Siva.

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Our Bhagavan-Stories
« on: November 16, 2015, 08:20:44 AM »

On 28th January 1946, P.B. Ray, who has been staying in Tiruvannamalai for about a month now,
has finished his Bengali Life of Bhagavan.  He read the dedication, translated into English, before Bhagavan and said that he had heard about Bhagavan from somebody in Madras some years ago,
and soon after he began writing this Life and it has taken some four years to complete it.  Bhagavan
then said that long ago some Bengali had written a small life sketch of His in Bengali papers or
journals about Him. Ray said that he had written those two articles now mentioned by
Bhagavan Ramana.

Thereupon, Bhagavan searched for the other Bengali article and traced it and gave it to Ray for
perusal. It was a journal called AMRUT and published in 1934.  The author of the
article was Jagadeesananda Swami of the Ramakrishna Mission.  Ray perused it and said in the
evening that the article touched all points but somehow omitted to make any mention
about the experience of Bhagavan arising from the idea of death and resulting in His Self Realization
which happened in Madurai in 1896, before His coming to Tiruvannamalai.

(Source: Day by Day. Devaraja Mudaliar. 28.1.1946)

Arunachala Siva. 

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Our Bhagavan-Stories
« on: November 16, 2015, 08:15:36 AM »

Since there was no standard Sthala Puranam for Tiruchuzhi,  Viswanatha Swami was
requested by devotees to compile one by referring to various puranas.  This is now available
in Sri Ramanasramam as reprint and an English version is also there.  Suri Nagamma
rendered this in Telugu and it was submitted to Bhagavan Ramana for perusal.  This Telugu
translation should also be available in Sri Ramanasramam.  Telugu members may
kindly check up.

(Source: Day to Day.  Devaraja Mudaliar, entry dated 18.2.1946)

Arunachala Siva. 

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Our Bhagavan-Stories
« on: November 16, 2015, 08:13:35 AM »

Once Devaraja Mudaliar was reading Siva Jnana Bodham commentary of Nalla Swami Pillai.
He came across a sentence in which the author challenges anyone to show in any purana
that Siva took birth as an avatara anywhere.  Mudaliar then asked Bhagavan whether it was
not true that Siva was born as a child to Vallalala Maharaja in Tiruvannamalai and Siva
even performed annual ceremonies to Maharaja.

Bhagavan then explained:

Siva was not born in any woman's womb even according to that story.  When wife of Vallala
Maharaja approached Siva [ for the detailed story see Arunachala Puranam, Tamizh
verses with meaning.  Saiva Ellappa Navalar], Siva became a child and the queen called
Vallala and both came to lift the child and hug.  Siva then disappeared, but with a promise
that He would perform annual ceremonies to him, after his death, as a child.  Even today, there
is one festival every year in Arunachaleswarar temple to commemorate this ceremony.

Bhagavan further narrated a story from Tiru ViLaiyadal Puranam, caled Vriddha, Kumara,
Bala Patalam, where Siva appeared as an old man first, then a youth and then finally into
a child.

(Source: Day by Day,  10.2.1946)

Arunachala Siva.     

General Discussion / Re: Laghu Vasudeva Mananam:
« on: November 15, 2015, 03:54:42 PM »
It is not correct to say that, because in deep sleep, there is no inducing, the Atman tool cannot
be in an inducer.  As an illustration of this argument,  we can show that when disciples are not
near a teacher, his teacherhood is not evident.  His teacherhood is then unperceivable manner.
In the same way, because of the absence of connection with the three organs, the existing inducership
is not perceived.  In the waking state and dream states the existing connection with the three organs
is perceived clearly.  Is this not a plausible explanation?  The principle involved in this explanaton
is that non perception of a thing is not itself a conclusive proof of the non existence of that thing.

This inference is not correct. This can be understood from the following fact. In the waking state,
one may be sitting lazily without doing anything. There is connection with the three organs of body,
mind and speech. Still there is no agency in them, as made evident by the quietness. So we have
to say that inducership is not something natural but a derivative from some external factor.

We find that factor in superimposition also.  When a long piece of iron is heated, it becomes
red-hot. Redness and heat are not natural to the iron. They are superimposed on the iron.
Similarly the fire on the iron gets the length and other dimensions of the iron. These are
not natural to fire but are superimposed on it.  In the same way it is due to ignorance that
the inducership, natural to attachment and aversion, is seen superimposed on the Atman,
and is seen superimposed on attachment and aversion.


Arunachala Siva.     

General Discussion / Re: Laghu Vasudeva Mananam:
« on: November 15, 2015, 01:18:32 PM »

Such a Vedic passage (Mandukya Upanishad 7) runs as follows:

adrstam avyavahaaryam agraahyam
alaksanam achintyam ekatma-pratyaya-saaram:
prapanchopasamam saantam sivam advaitam chaturham
manyante sa aatma sa vijnEyah.

--  The Atman is unseeable, unspeakable, unthinkable without any signs for recognition,
understandable only through non dual self intuition, without any trace of multiplicity,
absolutely peaceful due to absence of attachments and aversions, pure and without a
second. Know this Pure Consciousness as the Atman, the fourth state.

Besides, the state of being an inducer is something originated.  The Mukti deriving from any
kind of induction (Karayitrava) will also be something originated. Not only that, for the state of
deep sleep also we shall have to see an inducer. We do not find any such thing.  It comes naturally.
So the state of being an inducer is not natural to the Atman.  It is only something external that
comes to be associated with the Atman from an external source like the redness of a crystal placed
in front of a hibiscus flower, as shown before.


Arunachala Siva.         

General Discussion / Re: Laghu Vasudeva Mananam:
« on: November 15, 2015, 01:05:50 PM »
Then how do we feel that the Atman is inducing?

Just as the reflection of the redness of a hibiscus flower is projected on a crystal placed near it
and the crystal looks red.  In this sense impulsion of love and hatred is something projected or
superimposed on the Atman due to ignorance.  If love and hatred were in the very nature of the
Atman, no one would try to get rid of them.   The nature (Svabhava) of and the form (Swarupa)
of a thing are identical.  If the nature of a thing is somehow destroyed, it amounts to the destruction
of the thing itself. If you accept 'agency' for Atman, then the Vedic passages that deny attachment,
action, or inducement to action in the case of the Atman will become meaningless.


Arunachala Siva.


General Discussion / Re: Laghu Vasudeva Mananam:
« on: November 15, 2015, 12:56:48 PM »
When we say, for example, that 'I get a temple built or get a tank dug'.  etc.,  We have the feeling
that the Atman is doing or getting these done. Can we not therefore say on the evidence of this
experience that the Atman is inducer or propeller?

This is not correct. The Atman is changeless and has no feelings. Such an entity cannot be the
inducer of any action.


Arunachala Siva.   

General Discussion / Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« on: November 15, 2015, 12:12:50 PM »
Aiydikal Kadvaor Kon:  Siva's devotee among the 63 Saiva Saints:

The day of attaining Siva - Aippasi - Moola Star Day:

One city that was renowned throughout India for its intellectuals, institutions and ingenious
art work was Kanchipuram, the capital of the Pallavas. The king of the Pallava land who
conquered the excess of the Kali and the enemies was Aiydikal  Peruman, the king who ruled the
land with his upright royal stick of justice - the Justice of Lord Siva. With the wealth and fame, with
every life in the land sitting pride and peaceful, with the poles of enmities won over and the justice prevailing, with the great Saivam spreading its fragrance along with the knowledge of holy Vedas,
our Nayanar ruled the land.

The king felt the royal crown was a hurdle in serving the Lord and wanted to salute the Lord
singing His fame. He gave the royal throne to his son and set off to serve the Lord in the way
his will wanted to. He went to the abodes of Lord who has Moon as an ornament over His golden
matted hair and sang a Venpa  (one of the four major constructs of Tamizh poetry) each time,
serving his heart stealing Beauty. The king of the Pallava kingdom went to the King of Cosmic
dance's Chidambaram,  saluted, drank the Nectar performing dance there and offered It his
holy flower of fragrant Venpa. Staying there for some time in that holy place worshiping the God,
he continued his pilgrimage to many other innumerable abodes of the omnipresent Lord and did
his service singing the hymn on God. His salutations went on for a long time and he reached the
company of the Lovers of the Lord in the land of the Lord under His sacred feet. Let the great love
of the king of Kadavas, Aiydigal Kadavar Kon because of which he left the royal pleasures and
pride and came to sing the God's fame stay in the mind.

Arunachala Siva.

Next, let us say that we had taken two accurate clocks, and placed one of them in the above spaceship
before it left us, and kept the other with ourselves for reference.  And suppose that we  now observe
the clock in the moving spaceship from our position, and measure by our clock, how much time it
takes to move forward by 1 hour.  Normally, we expect it to be 1 hour too, but our measurement
would actually show it much longer  -- 2 hours and 17 minutes. A person travelling in the vehicle will,
however, find nothing unusual, with his meter rod or his clock.  But will find a meter rod held by us
to be precisely that much shorter, and our clock that much slower.  These observations have nothing
to do with limitations of measurement, but are inherent in the very way our universe is structured.
Space and time are thus relative to an observer, and have no absolute basis.

The special theory'  has another interesting consequence.  Suppose the spaceship of our example
fires a small space probe directly in front at a speed of 0.6 billion kmph, as measured from it.
Now, let us say we measure the speed of that probe from our position on earth.  Common sense
tells us that we should find it to be the sum of the two speeds (0.9 and 0.6) i.e., 1.5 billion kmph.
But actual measurement would show it to be far less  -- only 0.974 billion kmph!!  Einstein's theory
in fact tells us that no matter what we do, we can never make an object move at a speed exceeding
1 billion kmph, which is the speed of light in vacuum.  These consequences are again not due to any
practical limitations on our part, but only because our universe is structured that way!!           

Einstein's 'general theory of relativity' goes a step further to say that space and time are not two
separate entities as we normally take them to be, but are components of a four dimensional
matrix, called 'spacetime'.  This theory explains gravitation as due to a 'curvature' of this spacetime
in the vicinity of objects.  We find the concept of spacetime itself not so easy to conceive; that of
a curvature in it beats our imagination.  Empirical reality of the macrocosm is thus entirely aline
to our common sense notions of the world.


Arunachala Siva.       

General Discussion / Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« on: November 15, 2015, 11:44:51 AM »
When I was a little girl:

Kitty Osborne:


These quite noisy happy times in the Hall were great fun.  My brother and sister and I would
show Bhagavan our toys and He would inspect them gravely, giving as much attention to a
doll which could open its eyes as He did to a question of deep philosophical meaning; but when
the story and chat time were over we knew at once.  Bhagavan would turn away and into Himself
and an immediate quiet descended in the Hall.  When Bhagavan was quiet like that 'no one' spoke.

We were not the only ones who loved to sit in the Hall to be in Bhagavan's company.  There were all
the animals as well, coming and going in between the people.  The dusty dogs came in and did namaskaram before Bhagavan's couch. They all did it but I can't remember ever thinking that was
unusual, which actually I suppose it was.  The monkeys rarely come inside, they mainly chattered
to Him through the window but the peacocks would come and dance for Him...  it was beautiful. The
squirrels would come the door and look around nervously, then make a dash for His lap to get some
puffed rice or peanuts. 


Arunachala Siva.       

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