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Messages - Subramanian.R

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10951

On 9th Jan 1946, one Mr. P. Banerjee asked Bhagavan:

"What is the difference between Jivanmukti and Videhamukti?"

Bhagavan:  There is no difference.  For those who ask, it is said:  A Jnani with body is a Jivanmukta
and he attains Videhamuki when he drops off the body.  But this difference is only for the onlooker,
not for the Jnani.

[Ribhu Gita, English translation, The Song of Ribhu gives
a detailed chart as an appendix about these states, again
from the onlooker's point of view.]

Arunachala Siva.

10952


Once Bhagavan Ramana made a small four line Tamizh poem describing the Jnani's state.
"Since a Jnani does not have the body consciousness, his moving about and doing work,
is like the state of a drunkard, who when stone-drunk does not know whether his clothes are
there on his body or not."

Bhagavan Himself changed some words and meter and finally completed this poem.  A copy
was made out by Devaraja Mudaliar in his notebook.  Bhagavan Ramana further added
that there is no corresponding verse in Bhagavatam about this concept, but in Sita Rama Anjaneya Samvadam, a Telugu work, this state is given in great details while speaking about Jnani's state.
Balarama Reddiar who was in the Hall at that time said:  Sita Rama Anjaneya Samvadam is to the
Telugus what Kaivalyam is to the Tamizhians.  The book is full of advaita concepts.

(Source: Day by Day by Devaraja Mudaliar. 20.1.1946.
The actual Tamil verse is also available in the Volume 5
of Arunachala's Ramana, Boundless Ocean of Grace.)

Arunachala Siva.

10953
General Discussion / Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« on: November 24, 2015, 06:40:03 AM »



Fear is due to the mind.  For the one who has controlled the mind, there is no fear.  If one like
Bhagavan Ramana could kill the mind, he becomes the boldest human being in the world. We are the
Third Eye of Siva, from where Skanda came out to kill the demons with whom
even Brahma, Vishnu and Indra feared.  Problem of liquidation?  Why we should fear that?
We are always with God.  It is God who runs the show!"

Saint Tiruvukkarasar sang:  What is there to fear about?
What things will erupt which can give fear to us?  We have
got the Panchaksharam. 

Arunachala Siva.

10954
The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Our Bhagavan-Stories
« on: November 23, 2015, 03:21:18 PM »



On 29th Jan 1946, Bhagavan Ramana was going through the new Telugu edition of Ramana Leela.
A visitor asked Him:

"I came here about a year ago.  And even since, I have been trying to follow Bhagavan's instructions.
I am not, however, succeeding very well.  I try to look at all women as mothers. But I don't succeed."  Bhagavan Ramana did not reply and the visitor continued: "While I am at home, it is all right. But
when I go out and see women I am not able to control my mind and am swept off my feet.
What should I do?"  He also added: "I want Atma sakshatkaram.  What should I do?
I pray for Bhagavan's blessings. 

After a pause, Bhagavan replied:  'You say you are all right when you are at home. Be at home,
at home in the mind. Don't allow it go outwards, but turn it inwards and keep it at home there.
Then all will be well and you will have Atma sakshatkaram.  The trouble is that we are the mind.
See if you are the mind."

The visitor said: "I am a grahasta. Still I want to practice brahmacharya even with my wife. But
I am not able to succeed.  What should I do?"  Bhagavan replied:  "That is because of the age long
vasanas.  The sankalpas are so powerful because they have existed so long. But they will go."

(Source: Day by Day. Devaraja Mudaliar.  29.1.1946)

Arunachala Siva.   

10955
The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Our Bhagavan-Stories
« on: November 23, 2015, 03:17:13 PM »

The visitor who had asked about his difficulties in the previous evening [about lust etc.,] came to
Bhagavan Ramana to take leave of Him.  He said:  I have already mentioned about my difficulties."
Bhagavan said: "Yes, they will go gradually."

Visitor:  I want Bhagavan's Kripa Drishti [grace by gazing].

Bhagavan did not reply.  Only a few minutes before that Colombo Ramachandra's two small girls
had finished singing and almost the last song [composed by his father, an ardent devotee of
Bhagavan] contained the lines,

" He who remains at Annamalai as the gracious Guru,
who casts His glance on them, dissipates their sorrows
and directs them to salvation. "

[The visitor must have understood the meaning]

Source: Day by Day, 30.1.1946. Devaraja Mudaliar)

Arunachala Siva.

10956
The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Our Bhagavan-Stories
« on: November 23, 2015, 01:26:02 PM »



Sometime back a person asked a question, "It is said that Aswathamma, Vibheeshana, Hanuman
and others are chiranjeevis, eternally living beings and they are even now living somewhere. Is that true?" 

Bhagavan Ramana said:

"Yes, that is true."

Bhagavan Ramana continued:

What is your idea of a Chiranjeevi?  Those that know the state which is never destroyed, where is
death for them, and where is birth?  They live as chiranjeevis for all the time and at all places.
We are now talking about them, and so they are present here.  When it is said that a person
lives for ever, it does not mean this body consisting of the five elements.   When Brahma Kalpas
[ages of Brahma]  themselves come and go like dolls' houses, is it possible to attribute permanence
to bodies that age? said Bhagavan.

(Source: Suri Nagamma, Letters from Sri Ramansramam)

Arunachala Siva.

10957
The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Our Bhagavan-Stories
« on: November 23, 2015, 12:56:11 PM »
The Best of Friends:

Bhagavan and Chadwick:

Part I:


Meanwhile, the Bible itself, which for Chadwick's priestly forebears would have been completely
sacrosanct, was being subjected to modern methods of textual and historical criticism. As they
searched for the historical Jesus, theologians in dog collars were questioning the truth of the
Virgin Birth and Resurrection itself.   The evidence suggests that Chadwick came into direct contact
with these radical new ideas at university, and they had a devastating effect.  All we can say for
certain is that he dropped out after two years without finishing his degree. Instead of becoming a
priest, he disappeared to Canada, where he took a job as a surveyor. From then on, he was never
part of English society again.

Only during the First World War, did Chadwick briefly fit back in.   The moment war was declared,
the drop out hurried home from Canada, to enlist, for the next four years he behaved exactly as an
Englishman of his class was expected to behave.  But once he'd been discharged from the army,
Chadwick vanished abroad again.  After that, he frittered his life away as a sort of gentleman tramp,
wandering from country to country and from one menial job to the next.  There were sporadic bouts
of meditation, but there were also love affairs, along with much drinking.  All in all, it would be difficult
to invent a more perfect modern type of the prodigal son.  Having been born into a rich Christian
inheritance, Chadwick now disappeared  to distant lands, where he recklessly squandered it all.
Yet the roots of this profligacy were to be found not in the prodigal character, but in his times.
As he was to prove once he'd surrendered himself to Ramana Maharshi, this Chadwick was as unswervingly
loyal and utterly devout as any of his priestly ancestors.  He'd just had the misfortune to be born in an
era, when the old spiritual certainties were crumbling on all sides.  The Victorian solutions of his father
and his grandfathers did not work anymore.  For them, the Anglican priesthood had been the most
obvious and logical doorway to salvation.  But when Chadwick's turn came, the door had been slammed
in his face.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.                     

10958
Parallelism between Scientific and Spiritual Reality:

Part II - Logical Similitude of Spiritual Reality:

Advaita offers scope for varied arguments to justify the plausibility of the truth it posits at various levels. 
A different argument appeals to us and works best at different times, depending on the prevailing state
of our mind.  A form of argument that is particularly potent  is the analogy between spiritual and scientific
reality. It holds appeal to us due to the great faith we generally place in science in the present age of
technology.  Part I of the article traces the scientific background typically suited to establish this analogy.


We shall now pursue our main object of study, namely the actual analogy of spiritual reality in some detail.
We shall proceed topic wise mostly in the order followed in Part I, and then briefly touch upon a few
supplementary points. 

Constancy or Changeless-ness of Spiritual Reality

Science attempts to explain the various phenomena in the world in terms of its laws and theories.
These principles depict the unchanging element in otherwise ever changing world, and are taken to
be the 'reality' according to science.  Ohm's law of electricity cited in Part I provides an example.
It represents the constant principle that relates the three parameters, voltage, current, and resistance,
which are variable in an electrical system.

Spirituality, as we know, concerns the investigation of the meaning of our existence, and the practical
means of realizing it.  The unchanging principles that go to interpret this meaning and its realization
are taken to constitute spiritual reality.  The law of karma is a familiar example.  Let us suppose that twins
are travelling by bus, and that the bus meets with an accident.  One of the twins sustains a grievous
injury and is maimed for life, while the other escapes with minor bruises.   There could be apparently
nothing in the lives of the two till then that explains the profound differences in the quality of their lives
thereafter.  The law of karma attributes this to the evil committed by the maimed twin in a previous birth.
It explains similarly varied other situations. 

Constancy is thus seen to characterize both spiritual and scientific reality.  This is but expected since we
intuitively associate the idea of change-lessness with 'reality.'

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.       

10959
General Discussion / Re: Laghu Vasudeva Mananam:
« on: November 23, 2015, 11:20:25 AM »
The Jnana that has entered into a Vritti of the mind and become one with it, is identical with Svarupa-jnana;
and the former Jnana is not different from the latter.  How then can there be opposition between them,as
you say?

I shall make it clear by an example.  The light of the sun fosters the growth of grass. But the same
sunlight, when it passes through a powerful lens, can burn it.  So sunlight, though not opposed to grass,
becomes opposed when it passed through the medium of a lens. Though the light is the same, there arises
opposition between them in these different conditions. Similarly, though the Svarupa Jnana in itself has 
no opposition between them, when the Svrupa Jnana enters into Vrittis and becomes one with them.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.     

10960
General Discussion / Re: Laghu Vasudeva Mananam:
« on: November 23, 2015, 11:12:09 AM »
You say that in deep sleep Svarupa Jnana reveals ignorance. So in this case there is no contradiction
between ignorance and knowledge according to you.  If so, how can knowledge destroy ignorance,
which is possible only if there is a contradiction in their co existence?

The Svarupa Jnana, i.e.the knowledge nature of the Atman in itself has no opposition to ignorance.
But the knowledge reflected in a Vritti is opposed to ignorance.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.   

10961
General Discussion / Re: Laghu Vasudeva Mananam:
« on: November 23, 2015, 11:07:49 AM »
Is there no Swarupa Jnana at all in waking and dream states, and if so, why?

The Svarupa Jnana is present in all states. But there is no mental movements in deep sleep,
as all Vrittis are movements of the mind.  Jnana, however is the very nature of the Atman without
the presence of any Vritti to reveal it.  So we distinguish it by the term Swarupa Jnana without
of any mental mode as a mediating factor. When that knowledge nature of the Atman  enters into
the mental modes and becomes one with them, they become capable of producing knowledge,
just as the mirror on the wall becomes capable of emitting light when the sun's light enters into it.
So we say that mental modes cannot by themselves destroy ignorance. Ignorance of the Atman is
destroyed only by the light of the Atman that has entered into the mental mode that has taken
the shape of the Atman.  It is not a result of any mode of the intellect or the mind by itself. 

Even thousands of actions which are produced by the three organs cannot destroy the ignorance
about the Atman. Just as a good deed effaces sin, the Vritti Jnana removes sin.  A ruby is only
a stone, but because Vritti Jnana is only a mental mode because of the Swarupa Jnana that pervades
it, the term 'Jnana' is applied to it.  It cannot be called action.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.               

10962
General Discussion / Re: Laghu Vasudeva Mananam:
« on: November 23, 2015, 10:05:26 AM »
The answer continues...

Jnana is of two kinds  -- immediate and intuitive knowledge (Svarupa Jnana) and knowledge got
through mental movements, Vritti Jnana.

What sheds light on the ignorance of the state of deep sleep, which we feel on waking as 'I know
nothing', is Svarupa Jnana for, there is nothing else in that state except the light of the Atman.
But the knowledge that reveals objects in the states of waking and dream is Vritti Jnana.

As an example to illustrate these two kinds of knowledge, take the sunlight that reveals a wall.
That light is the true light of the sun.  Here the sunlight is comparable to Svarupa Jnana. Suppose
on the wall there is also a mirror.  The mirror reflects the light that falls on that part of the wall
and gives out apparently different rays.  But they are not really different from the sun's rays
falling on the wall. For, without these sun rays, there cannot be any ray from the reflecting mirror.
In the same way, it is the Vritti Jnana that is seen in the waking and dream states, while the
knowledge that reveals ignorance in deep sleep is Swarupa Jnana.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.       

10963
General Discussion / Re: Laghu Vasudeva Mananam:
« on: November 23, 2015, 09:49:15 AM »
You have said that the three fold organs are the source of all actions.  Knowledge is also caused by
movements of the mind, which too is action. How can it destroy ignorance?  For these movements
of the mind are action only and can only enhance ignorance, if your argument is correct.

In a way, yours is a legitimate objection. But it is only an intervening means (Upadhi) for Jnana
to destroy Ajnana just as the eye is for grasping forms.  The forms are really grasped by the mind
and not by the eyes.  The eye is only an intermediary factor.We can understand this from the fact
that even if the eye is receiving impressions, no perception takes place if the mind is not attached
to the instrument (here, the eyes) but engaged elsewhere in some fanciful thoughts. In the same
way, Jnana alone can efface ignorance and no any Vritti by itself.  For Vritti here is only an instrument
like  the eye as in the illustration mentioned above.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.         

10964
General Discussion / Re: Laghu Vasudeva Mananam:
« on: November 23, 2015, 09:38:47 AM »
The grave sins arising from the murder of the holy men, etc., are effaced by the performance of the
proper expiatory rites, - Prayschitta. Similarly is it not possible to overcome this ignorance, which is
petty and false by the power of very potent expiatory rites?

No, this is not possible. Because there is no opposition between karma and ignorance. Karma only
enhances ignorance,just as the intense darkness of the last of the dark fortnight is only made more
intense by dark clouds. Only the dawning of the sun can remove it.  Just like that, it is only the dawn
of the Sun of knowledge that can eliminate the darkness of ignorance,  No karmas like expiatory
or other rites  can do this.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.
         

10965
The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Our Bhagavan-Stories
« on: November 23, 2015, 09:12:49 AM »



Ramaswamy Iyengar of Kumbakonam came to Bhagavan Ramana much earlier.  He was devoted
 to Him from his youth. Brahmachari, he used to wear only a codpiece.  But whenever he came to Tiruvannamalai, he would wear a towel.  He thought it was discourteous to be dressed like
Bhagavan in His presence. He had established a Ramanasramam in Kumbakonam and he
used to celebrate Bhagavan's birthday for ten days on a grand scale.  The celebrations were
marked by puja, poor feeding and music concerts.  Kunju Swami once went for that celebrations.

He would never stand or sit near Bhagavan.  He would always stand at a distance.  On arrival
at the Asramam, he would prostrate from the entrance to the Hall and he would do the same while
leaving.  He would see Him on  His way to or from the Hill.   Before Bhagavan returned from the Hill,
he would roll on the spots of the ground touched by His feet.  He would dust the sheets of Bhagavan's
sofa.

Ramaswamy Iyengar's devotion to Ramana was so intense, that while singing Sri Ramana Stuti
Panchakam [of Venkatrama Iyer] or Akshara Mana Malai [from the word Ramanan appears
once, verse 90] he would skip the word.  Knowing his extreme devotion devotees would not even
utter the word Ramana in his presence.  Once when a devotee inadvertently addressed
Bhagavan as 'Ramana', he slapped him nicely.  The devotee also apologized and did not react badly.

On a full moon day, he arrived in the Asramam.  He became uneasy and breathed his last around
4.30 am on the morning. He was cremated and the ashes were taken to make a samadhi in Kumbakonam.

Once when he stayed in Palakottu, he purchased big earthenware pots and prepared three kinds
of excellent pickles and sent them to Asramam.  Bhagavan Ramana said:

"He is an Iyengar.  He is capable of doing everything very well. He is very good."

(Source: From a special write up in Arunachala's Ramana.
Boundless Ocean of Grace. Volume 5.)

Arunachala Siva. 

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